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Nabuyev
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Posted - 2011.01.31 01:33:00 -
[1]
Hello,
With the new availability of MWDs in mission, is it possible to fit a shield tank Machariel with one without gimping dps or capping out too quickly?
Because the MWD reduces the overall capacitor, the best I could get the cap to be was +38 vs -49.3. Any ideas? Using a cap booster would mean I could only carry around 13 or so, which would run out way too quickly.
Thanks in advance
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2011.01.31 02:07:00 -
[2]
Too bad for you. uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
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Rawrclaw
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Posted - 2011.01.31 02:27:00 -
[3]
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar Too bad for you.
Thank you for not contributing at all. --------------
And now for my opinion. I don't think cap stability is recquired when using a mwd, I would go with a shield buffer + 1 inv field, pulse the mwd when needed and you will be stable.
It's nice to think you could leave everything running without worrying about it, but a fit with a mwd is difficult to make cap stable without severely ruining the fit.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.01.31 02:35:00 -
[4]
The sig boost and cap instability means you won't be able to speedtank. Personally, I wouldn't put it on a pve mach.
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Hack Harrison
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.31 02:38:00 -
[5]
Look af officer/deadspace mwd. They have a lower sig penalty and less cap penalty. Of course they cost a bit...
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Nabuyev
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Posted - 2011.01.31 02:57:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Nabuyev on 31/01/2011 02:58:02
Originally by: Goose99 The sig boost and cap instability means you won't be able to speedtank. Personally, I wouldn't put it on a pve mach.
The speed is to close the distance to maximize AC DPS.
edit: the tank would be robust enough to not need to speed tank
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Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy IT Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.31 04:45:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Goose99 The sig boost and cap instability means you won't be able to speedtank. Personally, I wouldn't put it on a pve mach.
There are other possibilities of MWD than speedtanking, for instance using shorter range ammo for more dps. However, you might want to consider a few things, first of all; I now have one of those annoying sigs. second; you should probably move on to some more interesting things than reading this sig.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.01.31 05:09:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor
Originally by: Goose99 The sig boost and cap instability means you won't be able to speedtank. Personally, I wouldn't put it on a pve mach.
There are other possibilities of MWD than speedtanking, for instance using shorter range ammo for more dps.
Current AC is falloff weapon, you will be using short range ammo for t1 anyway, for ~75km falloff. T1 ammo only differ in optimal (~5km). T2 short range cannot switch dmg type and sucks in general. AB already gets 600+ m/s, which is plenty for pve. Other BS can fit better tank without sacrificing gank, and need mwd to get around. Mach can already get around.
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Nabuyev
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Posted - 2011.01.31 06:44:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Nabuyev on 31/01/2011 06:44:48 I think I'm going to go with a corpus x-type. only around 180 or so mil I think.
Anyone got a better idea?
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Obsession Paranoia
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Posted - 2011.01.31 08:36:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Nabuyev Edited by: Nabuyev on 31/01/2011 06:44:48 I think I'm going to go with a corpus x-type. only around 180 or so mil I think.
Anyone got a better idea?
Advertising your faction-fit faction battleship on the forum is not a good idea. I'll give you a clue as to why.
Locator agents. Probes.
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Jackson Steely
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Posted - 2011.01.31 10:05:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Obsession Paranoia
Originally by: Nabuyev Edited by: Nabuyev on 31/01/2011 06:44:48 I think I'm going to go with a corpus x-type. only around 180 or so mil I think.
Anyone got a better idea?
Advertising your faction-fit faction battleship on the forum is not a good idea. I'll give you a clue as to why.
Locator agents. Probes.
Ignore this. I'll give you a clue as to why.
His name
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catinboots
Minmatar Vintage collective
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Posted - 2011.01.31 13:31:00 -
[12]
why would you use a mwd on a mission mach like stated earlier you only can fit one by sacrificing dps in my opinion on a mission mach use a good afterburner , you still going very fast for a battleship your autocannons already have a huge falloff range and the decrease in damage is compensated by your rate of fire
my opinion and experience anyway
_____________
There be dragons
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Songbird
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Posted - 2011.01.31 15:25:00 -
[13]
Best tank/cap ratio you can get is the pithum a-type shield booster(which is reflected in it's price of close to a bil isk), and gist x-type mwd has no cap penalty and the lowest cap per activation.
A fit with a gist x-type large shield booster, boost amp , 2 cn invulns, and a gist x-type mwd is also stable as long as you don't run the mwd .
You get cap for much longer with an ab of course but speeds exceeding 1400 are available with the mwd which is sweet.
Besides Machariel really shines in close range combat. Sure you can hit up to 75(where the targeting range ends) but deep in falloff you get much lower dps.
So in short a good fit is: 7 ac's , 1 drone range thingie in the top slots, gist large (or pithum med) shield booster, 2 cn invulns , gist mwd , boost amp in mids, 4 damage mods 3 tracking enhancers in the lows, ccc rigs.
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Nabuyev
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Posted - 2011.02.01 07:46:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Songbird Best tank/cap ratio you can get is the pithum a-type shield booster(which is reflected in it's price of close to a bil isk), and gist x-type mwd has no cap penalty and the lowest cap per activation.
A fit with a gist x-type large shield booster, boost amp , 2 cn invulns, and a gist x-type mwd is also stable as long as you don't run the mwd .
You get cap for much longer with an ab of course but speeds exceeding 1400 are available with the mwd which is sweet.
Besides Machariel really shines in close range combat. Sure you can hit up to 75(where the targeting range ends) but deep in falloff you get much lower dps.
So in short a good fit is: 7 ac's , 1 drone range thingie in the top slots, gist large (or pithum med) shield booster, 2 cn invulns , gist mwd , boost amp in mids, 4 damage mods 3 tracking enhancers in the lows, ccc rigs.
I tried it on EFT. The ship isn't cap stable even if I swap out a invulnerability field for a cap recharger and a t2 ccc rig. Any other cap mods would reduce the tank to dangerous levels.
MWD Mach seems to call for an armor fit Mach?
Originally by: Obsession Paranoia
Originally by: Nabuyev Edited by: Nabuyev on 31/01/2011 06:44:48 I think I'm going to go with a corpus x-type. only around 180 or so mil I think.
Anyone got a better idea?
Advertising your faction-fit faction battleship on the forum is not a good idea. I'll give you a clue as to why.
Locator agents. Probes.
Please. All pirate faction mission carebears are pimped for more than my ship these days...
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isuck2day
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Posted - 2011.02.01 09:01:00 -
[15]
Heavy NOS? just sayin...
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Ziaxi
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Posted - 2011.02.01 09:23:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Nabuyev cap stable
I think this is where you're going wrong
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.02.01 11:24:00 -
[17]
Mach has no need to be cap stable. Pretty much no BS does, come to think of it, uless you're using it to rep structures or something.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Mr LaForge
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Posted - 2011.02.01 12:36:00 -
[18]
Cap booster = OMFG I NEED CAP button. Use it well.
Cap Stable is a joke. Stop using the Drake mentality.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.02.01 15:01:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Mr LaForge Cap booster = OMFG I NEED CAP button. Use it well.
Cap Stable is a joke. Stop using the Drake mentality.
When you already have 4 damage mods, the 5th won't add anything significant. So no, cap stability is not a joke for certain ships. Cap stability never hurts, there is no reason to not have it once gank is already maxed out. That said, it's impossible for mwd fit. Stick to ab.
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Songbird
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Posted - 2011.02.01 15:03:00 -
[20]
I think you didn't read the whole post I made.
The fit is stable as long as you don't turn on the MWD. You don't really need to run the mwd non stop - just use it to move to the big groups of enemies then turn it off and kill em dead, while having your cap stable tank on.
Besides spewing 1000 + dps you don't really need a whole lot of tank
Hell for some missions I put a couple of drone tracking modules, sit on my ass with 4 sentries around me and just let them come to the slaughter.
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Huuow
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Posted - 2011.02.01 15:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Jackson Steely
Originally by: Obsession Paranoia
Originally by: Nabuyev Edited by: Nabuyev on 31/01/2011 06:44:48 I think I'm going to go with a corpus x-type. only around 180 or so mil I think.
Anyone got a better idea?
Advertising your faction-fit faction battleship on the forum is not a good idea. I'll give you a clue as to why.
Locator agents. Probes.
Ignore this. I'll give you a clue as to why.
His name
made my day
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Rens Cheque
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Posted - 2011.02.01 17:24:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Rens Cheque on 01/02/2011 17:24:02 There is no need to sacrifice DPS to fit a MWD on the Mach, and there is also no need to be cap stable.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/49300-Machariel-Lvl-4-MWD-Mach.html
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Ben Dourion
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Posted - 2011.02.01 18:21:00 -
[23]
Mach does more than 500m/sec with AB and that can run permanently, speed is its tank, and you wont achieve more with a mwd rather than with a named T1 AB. Also dont use faction/deadspace stuff unless you want to be ganked in high sec, loose a few billions for nothing and have your name on a lolmail.
A full T2 fit is more than enough , 3 gyros, 2 TE, T2 ACs, AB, SB, shield extenders and resits is all what you need. Put light and mediums T2 drones in drone bay and youre all set.
Dont pimp it to attract attention, use implants like 5% proj dmg instead , get matari bs to 5, large proj spec to 4, gunnery support to 5 including Surgical Strike.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2011.02.01 18:33:00 -
[24]
Mwd macha is great. Ive been using it for over half year for angel extravaganza and its nice to be right on top of npcs in seconds. Btw there isnt ANY battleship that needs to "speed tank" l4 and especially not mach with its 1200dps with selectable damage type.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2011.02.01 21:51:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Obsession Paranoia
Originally by: Nabuyev Edited by: Nabuyev on 31/01/2011 06:44:48 I think I'm going to go with a corpus x-type. only around 180 or so mil I think.
Anyone got a better idea?
Advertising your faction-fit faction battleship on the forum is not a good idea. I'll give you a clue as to why.
Locator agents. Probes.
it really just isn't worth it to gank a macha for a 180m mwd, hell add a few faction gryos and it still isn't worth it. add some cn invluns and a deadspace booster, and then you are looking for trouble. |
Shereza
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Posted - 2011.02.02 01:59:00 -
[26]
An X-Type 100mn MWD is great for running missions. Personally, I prefer Core to Gist for MWDs. It might suck more cap. but it has a lower sig. radius penalty and it's easier on the grid when fitting one and that's where I often have issues with ship fittings. My current fit is a tad light on the gank for what a lot of posters on these forums suggest but it works.
[Machariel, MWD Mission] Core X-Type Large Armor Repairer True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener Core C-Type Armor Thermic Hardener Core C-Type Armor Thermic Hardener Gyrostabilizer II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Core X-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive Tracking Computer II Tracking Computer II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L Drone Link Augmentor I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Ogre II x3 Hammerhead II x2 Hammerhead II x3
I know these days a lot of people prefer to shield tank the ship, but the pilot for it's heavily into armor and light on shield tanking. Likewise I've never been very comfortable with a 4 slot shield tank, though ironically that's what I'm now doing with my nightmare.
Still, it gets the job and has enough of a cap. recharge surplus over what the tank needs to make very judicious usage of the MWD. Toss that in with a pair of TCs with tracking scripts to improve hitting ability while the MWD is turning on/off and it suits my style better than some of the shield tank setups I've seen to date.
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Evil Roleplay
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Posted - 2011.02.02 03:12:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Evil Roleplay on 02/02/2011 03:13:53
Originally by: Nabuyev Edited by: Nabuyev on 31/01/2011 02:58:02
Originally by: Goose99 The sig boost and cap instability means you won't be able to speedtank. Personally, I wouldn't put it on a pve mach.
The speed is to close the distance to maximize AC DPS.
edit: the tank would be robust enough to not need to speed tank
with a t2 AB a mach will hit 600m/s which means you can speedtank off 70-80% of the dps sanctums or missions thow out, as for travelling to max dps my mach with 3x gyro 3x TE still does 600+ dps at 55km with -50% range ammo so
My fit, tanks 833 dps serpentis does 600+m/s and will generally mess anything inside 55km up
[Machariel, Thor's Hammer] Damage Control II Domination Gyrostabilizer Domination Gyrostabilizer Domination Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Pith A-Type Heat Dissipation Field Pith A-Type Ballistic Deflection Field Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster Core X-Type 100MN Afterburner
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Phased Plasma L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Phased Plasma L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Phased Plasma L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Phased Plasma L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Phased Plasma L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Phased Plasma L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Phased Plasma L Core Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I
Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Hammerhead II x5
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Shereza
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Posted - 2011.02.03 04:30:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Evil Roleplay with a t2 AB a mach will hit 600m/s
More like 553m/s. It'll hit 605m/s with a T2 AB and a T2 nanofiber though. An MWD, however, will bump it up to 1505 m/s fairly easily, and with an X-Type MWD you can run the thing long enough to make range tanking a feasible proposition in a sizable chunk of PvE content.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.02.03 04:50:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Shereza
Originally by: Evil Roleplay with a t2 AB a mach will hit 600m/s
More like 553m/s. It'll hit 605m/s with a T2 AB and a T2 nanofiber though. An MWD, however, will bump it up to 1505 m/s fairly easily, and with an X-Type MWD you can run the thing long enough to make range tanking a feasible proposition in a sizable chunk of PvE content.
Instead of an X-type mwd, why not just get a C-type ab for 600 m/s? And it's speed tank, not "range tank," pulling range results in lower dps for ac boat.
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.02.03 19:39:00 -
[30]
Because the whole point of this discussion wasn't to get range, it was to close range. Mach is an AC boat, which means it does more damage close up.
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