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Rek Jaiga
Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators
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Posted - 2011.02.03 22:55:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris That's another one of your incursions we just slapped into the dirt. What was that about destiny again?
And you think that's the last?
((I don't get CCP's intentions with these. If it's another farming activity it's going to be very hard to RP for Nation when, by game mechanics Nation is intended to lose every time))
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Fei Lai
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.04 02:27:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Rek Jaiga
That is because you are thinking about it. Stop thinking and just See.
Perhaps you should actually stop and have a good think yourself. You might just find that you're less inclined to be totally insane that way.
((It is a shame that incursions don't involve something for Sansha loyalists to do, but I think you could play up the mass kidnappings happening in the background of every invasion as a sort of token victory. Even when an incursion is defeated, Sansha's ranks just continue to swell--that's the impression I get form some of the stories, anyway.))
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Rek Jaiga
Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators
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Posted - 2011.02.04 02:42:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Fei Lai
Perhaps you should actually stop and have a good think yourself. You might just find that you're less inclined to be totally insane that way.
((It is a shame that incursions don't involve something for Sansha loyalists to do, but I think you could play up the mass kidnappings happening in the background of every invasion as a sort of token victory. Even when an incursion is defeated, Sansha's ranks just continue to swell--that's the impression I get form some of the stories, anyway.))
Totally insane? Where have I demonstrated any symptoms of mental disease? Show me.
((Yeah, it would be nice if they temporarily allowed outlaws to enter hisec systems that are under "Incursion" status. I mean it makes no sense an entire Sansha fleet can walk right in without CONCORD/navy intervention, but as soon as a flashy red enters it's "RED ALERT!"))
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Ekaterina Randall
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Posted - 2011.02.04 03:03:00 -
[34]
If anything we of Sansha have a clear more sane mind than others. We have a purpose, a goal, a destiny.
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Two Shots
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.04 03:05:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Ekaterina Randall If anything we of Sansha have a clear more sane mind than others. We have a purpose, a goal, a destiny.
And terrible grammar.
Two Shots Goonwaffe
Goonswarm Federation Official Recruiting Officer |
Fei Lai
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.04 03:06:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Rek Jaiga
Totally insane? Where have I demonstrated any symptoms of mental disease? Show me.
You did say that the only way one could truly grasp your perspective is by surrendering one's capacity to think, and suggested by extension that somehow this act of disconnecting oneself from said faculties of thought would justify mass abductions and murder all in the name of alleviating the suffering of mankind. If that doesn't qualify as a symptom of mental disease, then I would call into question your definition of sanity.
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Rek Jaiga
Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators
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Posted - 2011.02.04 03:47:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Fei Lai
You did say that the only way one could truly grasp your perspective is by surrendering one's capacity to think, and suggested by extension that somehow this act of disconnecting oneself from said faculties of thought would justify mass abductions and murder all in the name of alleviating the suffering of mankind. If that doesn't qualify as a symptom of mental disease, then I would call into question your definition of sanity.
A straw man fallacy if I ever saw one..
I didn't say "surrender your ability to think". I told you to stop thinking, not to surrender the ability to think. Why would one want to stop thinking? Because it provides a momentary mental sigh. If your mind were a cup, it would be full and overflowing; full of biases that have been ingrained due to your culture and upbringing. Empty the cup, and take a fresh drink. You might like what you taste.
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Fei Lai
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.04 04:12:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Rek Jaiga
A straw man fallacy if I ever saw one..
I didn't say "surrender your ability to think". I told you to stop thinking, not to surrender the ability to think. Why would one want to stop thinking? Because it provides a momentary mental sigh. If your mind were a cup, it would be full and overflowing; full of biases that have been ingrained due to your culture and upbringing. Empty the cup, and take a fresh drink. You might like what you taste.
To stop thinking is to surrender thought--now you're just quibbling over my choice of words while you change direction. Suddenly, we're discussing my biases because obviously if I don't agree with you then my perspective must be innately flawed.
Even looking past my personal beliefs and conscience, Sansha's vision of perfection, your goal of 'enlightenment' still looks decidedly imperfect. If the only answer you can give in defense of that vision is that I am too biased to understand, then it may just be you that needs to empty your cup and take a fresh drink.
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Rek Jaiga
Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators
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Posted - 2011.02.04 06:02:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Fei Lai
To stop thinking is to surrender thought--now you're just quibbling over my choice of words while you change direction. Suddenly, we're discussing my biases because obviously if I don't agree with you then my perspective must be innately flawed.
Even looking past my personal beliefs and conscience, Sansha's vision of perfection, your goal of 'enlightenment' still looks decidedly imperfect. If the only answer you can give in defense of that vision is that I am too biased to understand, then it may just be you who needs to empty your cup and take a fresh drink.
Your perspective is biased because you refuse to experience Nation. It offends your current set of values so you instantly reject it, rather than experiment and see if it is indeed something you would prefer. You reject an empirical approach to the problem because you're afraid. You let the now-you interfere with the potential-you.
You have provided no reason why Nation's vision is "decidedly imperfect", and thus I have no response on the matter until you do so. You are spared hearing a response you would loathe.
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Syn Callibri
Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse
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Posted - 2011.02.04 14:37:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Aryanna Ta'Lone Look mom, the "zombies" have learned how to speak....wait, is that someone's hand up they're...YIKES!
Shhh...quiet yourself child. You've given them far more attention than they deserve already...mind your studies now.
[21EL] Commander Tac-Ops / [21EL] I.S.C. |
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Fei Lai
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.04 16:33:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Fei Lai It sounds like Sansha's solution to the ills that plague humanity would be the same as gouging out an eye to spite one's face. Certainly emotions can cause or compound problems, but giving them up entirely is hardly what I'd call a visionary plan for our future.
It's an awful sales pitch; 'decisions are hard, let someone else make them for you and don't feel anything because that's difficult, too.' With such a lackluster recruiting campaign, I have to wonder what would ever make someone decide to join up. What exactly are you running from that Kuvakei Sansha's arms seem a comfort? What did you feel so deeply that surrendering your entire self became a viable option?
My reasons were already stated; an incomplete humanity cannot be called perfect. Eliminating human suffering is meaningless if you completely destroy our capacity to experience said misery. What real solution does Sansha provide? Don't spare me a response based on what you assume my beliefs and values to be, Rek, because the truth is I am curious. When exactly does one decide that fusing giant spikes to one's hull and giving oneself over to the will of a single individual is a good way to enlighten mankind?
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ValentinaDLM
Minmatar Zaratha Zarati Shaktipat Revelators
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Posted - 2011.02.04 16:54:00 -
[42]
Edited by: ValentinaDLM on 04/02/2011 16:55:25
Originally by: Syn Callibri
Originally by: Aryanna Ta'Lone Look mom, the "zombies" have learned how to speak....wait, is that someone's hand up they're...YIKES!
Shhh...quiet yourself child. You've given them far more attention than they deserve already...mind your studies now.
Oh, come on now Syn, I consider all of 21el as close personal friends as an extension of our friendship. All I was just trying to get a bit closer to Aryanna no harm intended really, but my hands are kinda cold.
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Rek Jaiga
Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators
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Posted - 2011.02.04 18:22:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Fei Lai
My reasons were already stated; an incomplete humanity cannot be called perfect. Eliminating human suffering is meaningless if you completely destroy our capacity to experience said misery. What real solution does Sansha provide? Don't spare me a response based on what you assume my beliefs and values to be, Rek, because the truth is I am curious. When exactly does one decide that fusing giant spikes to one's hull and giving oneself over to the will of a single individual is a good way to enlighten mankind?
You are curious? Very well.
We seek to transcend humanity, to become something more. After following the True Path, it should come as no surprise that the resulting organism does not resemble a human.
Perfection won't resemble humanity because humanity itself is imperfect (though it possesses the ability to change itself, as we are doing now). While perfection may look ugly to humanity, surely those who have been made perfect experience infinitely more joy than those who have not.
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Fei Lai
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.04 19:06:00 -
[44]
There's an answer. Thanks for indulging my curiosity, zombie monk. I'll pass on transcending humanity by bending to the will of another human, though. Would you mind passing the word along and keeping your spiky doom ships well clear of me and my home? It would be appreciated.
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Syn Callibri
Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse
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Posted - 2011.02.04 21:03:00 -
[45]
Originally by: ValentinaDLM Edited by: ValentinaDLM on 04/02/2011 16:55:25
Originally by: Syn Callibri
Originally by: Aryanna Ta'Lone Look mom, the "zombies" have learned how to speak....wait, is that someone's hand up they're...YIKES!
Shhh...quiet yourself child. You've given them far more attention than they deserve already...mind your studies now.
Oh, come on now Syn, I consider all of 21el as close personal friends as an extension of our friendship. All I was just trying to get a bit closer to Aryanna no harm intended really, but my hands are kinda cold.
<stares coldly>
[21EL] Commander Tac-Ops / [21EL] I.S.C. |
Rek Jaiga
Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators
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Posted - 2011.02.04 23:24:00 -
[46]
"Zombie monk"? Heh, I quite like the ring of that.
I really have no control over where Nation ships go or do not go. You're on your own there, unfortunately. Have you tried sending a mail with your NeoCom to Master Kuvakei directly? Hell, has anyone tried that? Might be an interesting experience.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.02.05 00:47:00 -
[47]
While doing missions for my favourite agent, I just came across a Sansha incursion - you know, the old sort of Sansha incursion, where they'd send a tiny force of ill-equipped ships into a system and kidnap a few people from outlying orbital facilities. The ensuing slaughter of the Sansha and rescue of the abducted colonists made two things clear to me:
- Universally, the colonists were all very happy to have been saved from the Sansha, and their families were very grateful that I saved them. They were in no way interested in becoming part of the Nation, and were especially glad that the Sansha that had kidnapped them were ill-equipped and unable to fend off my Tengu.
- Kuvakei is just leaving his older soldiers to die. None of the Sansha I fought had anything like the equipment or capabilities of these newer Sansha invaders - they were no match for a single Tengu, in stark comparison to the current generation which almost always require several capsuleers to deal with. Despite the fact that Sansha can, apparently, produce limitless numbers of these newer, more dangerous ships and their far-superior equipment, he has chosen to just leave the troops I faced with their older, obselete equipment, making them no threat to any but the most unprepared of capsuleers. Clearly, when his servants are no longer interesting or useful to him, Sansha will just abandon them. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Rek Jaiga
Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators
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Posted - 2011.02.05 01:40:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Rek Jaiga on 05/02/2011 01:41:22
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
- Kuvakei is just leaving his older soldiers to die. None of the Sansha I fought had anything like the equipment or capabilities of these newer Sansha invaders - they were no match for a single Tengu, in stark comparison to the current generation which almost always require several capsuleers to deal with. Despite the fact that Sansha can, apparently, produce limitless numbers of these newer, more dangerous ships and their far-superior equipment, he has chosen to just leave the troops I faced with their older, obselete equipment, making them no threat to any but the most unprepared of capsuleers. Clearly, when his servants are no longer interesting or useful to him, Sansha will just abandon them.
Not necessarily true. Did you stop to consider that perhaps these troops did not have newer equipment available to them because resupplies from Stain were not possible to smuggle in? This smaller operation was in high-security space, I'm assuming.
Just think about the logistics. You're rushing to a hasty generalization with nary but a single incident as "proof".
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.02.05 14:06:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Rek Jaiga Not necessarily true. Did you stop to consider that perhaps these troops did not have newer equipment available to them because resupplies from Stain were not possible to smuggle in? This smaller operation was in high-security space, I'm assuming.
Just like the majority of incursions have been, right? With Sansha able to make wormholes at will? Yeah, I'm sure it's impossible to get the equipment to them. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Sah Phyre
Gallente Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.02.05 14:23:00 -
[50]
Do you Sansha muppets feel some kind of an obsessive urge to post a new self-aggrandizing thread every week? It's starting to get old. |
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Fei Lai
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.05 15:20:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Just like the majority of incursions have been, right? With Sansha able to make wormholes at will? Yeah, I'm sure it's impossible to get the equipment to them.
Your example is missing a sense of scale--there have been a handful of highly advanced major assaults in the past few weeks, whereas there are probably hundreds if not thousands of skirmishes a day like the one you encountered. The logistics of supplying so many ships with top of the line equipment would be staggering, even with Sansha's understanding of wormholes.
That Kuvakei views his soldiers as expendable is a given, but I don't think that is indicative of boredom or ill-will on his part. If he plans to fight a war in which his opponents are immortal clones whose ability to fight is limited only by their staggering bankrolls, he cannot be overly concerned with the lives of individual (or even entire fleets of) soldiers.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.02.05 15:26:00 -
[52]
Which makes him... no different to the other Empires, really. Thanks for helping me point out Sansha hypocricy, Fei Lai! I like you. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Rek Jaiga
Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators
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Posted - 2011.02.05 17:03:00 -
[53]
I'm surprised no one has brought up the fact that every Nation soldier is an infomorph, much like we capsuleers.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.02.05 19:06:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Rek Jaiga I'm surprised no one has brought up the fact that every Nation soldier is an infomorph, much like we capsuleers.
There's absolutely no proof of that whatsoever. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Fei Lai
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.05 19:14:00 -
[55]
Thanks, Andreus, glad to be of some service.
Infomorph zombies now? Aw...I guess Sansha really does care.
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Rek Jaiga
Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators
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Posted - 2011.02.05 20:44:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
There's absolutely no proof of that whatsoever.
Nevermind the fact that the number of registered Nation ships destroyed is such that crew "losses" would be well above the total number of individuals liberated in Nation operations.
No, there's just no possible way Master Kuvakei is recycling ship materials, biomass, and minds. It's completely beyond the technological capabilities of Nation, right?
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.02.05 21:42:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Andreus Ixiris on 05/02/2011 21:45:06
Originally by: Rek Jaiga Nevermind the fact that the number of registered Nation ships destroyed is such that crew "losses" would be well above the total number of individuals liberated in Nation operations.
No, there's just no possible way Master Kuvakei is recycling ship materials, biomass, and minds. It's completely beyond the technological capabilities of Nation, right?
>he thinks flash transfer can be done in any but the most controlled circumstances >he thinks flash transfer is 100% effective >he thinks anywhere near 1%, let alone 100% of the population can even tolerate slow transfer, let alone flash transfer >he thinks an infrastructure that can support flash transfer for five hundred thousand people isn't one of the most complex and logistically excrutiating undertakings in the known universe, let alone a flash transfer infrastructure for countless millions >he thinks recycling is 100% efficient >he thinks any production process is 100% efficient
Sure is uninformed apologist moron in here. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Nola Doyle
NeuroGEN
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Posted - 2011.02.05 21:59:00 -
[58]
There are much easier ways to alleviate the trials and tribulations of emotion. Death, for example, absolves one from all problems with relative efficiency.
However, what I find most fascinating are those who proclaim to be advocates of freedom while simultaneously clamoring for silence from a viewpoint contrary to their own. If the notion of emancipation were as vital as many have claimed on these channels, one would hope that such a message would ultimately fall on deaf ears and would not necessarily require intervention. One could conclude that this outburst is either a matter of insecurity on the part of the belligerent, or they simply lack the comprehension inherent in grasping what the notion of freedom actually entails.
I have my own suspicions, but I'd be curious to know how others perceive this. Dr. Nola J. Doyle Co-CEO, NeuroGEN |
Rek Jaiga
Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators
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Posted - 2011.02.06 01:21:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
>he thinks flash transfer can be done in any but the most controlled circumstances >he thinks flash transfer is 100% effective >he thinks anywhere near 1%, let alone 100% of the population can even tolerate slow transfer, let alone flash transfer >he thinks an infrastructure that can support flash transfer for five hundred thousand people isn't one of the most complex and logistically excrutiating undertakings in the known universe, let alone a flash transfer infrastructure for countless millions >he thinks recycling is 100% efficient >he thinks any production process is 100% efficient
>The pod's mechanism is an incredibly controlled mechanism; when hull breach is detected our bodies are killed and our minds are scanned. There's nothing to prohibit a similar mechanism on Nation ships, especially if one could imagine each crew member being "plugged in" to the ship. >It's been almost 100% effective with we capsuleers, and Nation possesses even better technology, second only to the Joves. >Nation implants could make even the most normal individual able to tolerate flash transfer. That's the point of them, to make the average human organism better. >It is entirely possible that flash transfer isn't even used, but rather each mind is "saved". The founder of Zainou transferred his mind to a computer; it is possible. A mind could be copied to a database, which would still constitute an infomorph. It's easier to maintain a database tucked away in Stain, and is possible. An infomorph scenario is the only explanation for how Nation has managed to deploy so many thousands of ships on a daily basis with such a limited population. >No, recycling (nor any other process) is 100% efficient. But have you seen the asteroid belts in Stain? It's clear Nation mines whatever it can't salvage and reuse.
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris [There] Sure is [an] uninformed apologetic moron in here.
There sure is a close-minded moron in here. Oh, and this "apologist" moron has corrected your grammar and inserted the correct adjective for you. Have a nice day!
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Rek Jaiga
Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators
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Posted - 2011.02.06 02:57:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Rek Jaiga on 06/02/2011 03:11:06 Look at the RP-H66 system in your NeoCom's Star Map utility. At this moment, 614 Nation ships have been flagged as destroyed in the past twenty-four hours in that system alone. If we assume that only one in every four ships had a crew of a thousand individuals and that all other ships destroyed had no crew members (which is impossible; at least one individual is needed as a pilot), that's 614/4= 153.5 * 1000 = 153500. This is a very low estimate too, seeing as a cruiser-class vessel (in this case, the Phantasm) can have over a thousand crew members. Are you getting what I'm saying?
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