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Arrakis Shai
Caldari World of Insomnia
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Posted - 2011.02.07 00:55:00 -
[1]
Hi all, Im after some up front advice on which race to cross train for pvp. As you may have already guessed, IÆm currently trained into faildari which works well for the mission grind, but not so well for my street cred for pvp outside of a drake blob. (nothing more fun than rolling to the fight in a fleet of Honda Civics)
IÆve been trawling the forums for a bit now but all I seem to be able to find are various troll threads along the lines of ômy shipz is teh bests raarö so some constructive input would be awesome for a change. If you like your chosen æbrandÆ of ships, explain a little and let me know why.
From what I hear cross training can be a super pain, and I really only want to do it for one race atm, so all helpful advice is gratefully received.
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Cygnus Zhada
Custodians of Athra
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Posted - 2011.02.07 01:06:00 -
[2]
I depends on what you're looking for. If you want to be in big fleets then Amarr is the place to be, Guardians, zealots and the BS are all good in bigger gangs and fleets. If you're looking for smaller roaming gangs or solo work then minmatar has many advantages.
Most minnie ships will shield tank and some will fit missiles so that kinda copies over just fine, you'll still need to train armor tanking and ofcourse projectiles. But again it all depends on the type of pvp you're looking for rather than what's the easiest to do.
--- Stultorum infinitus est numerus. |
Paikis
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2011.02.07 01:11:00 -
[3]
Why pander to people's incorrect parroting of the 'faildari' phrase? Caldari have several viable ships in each class.
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Target Painter
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.02.07 01:13:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Arrakis Shai From what I hear cross training can be a super pain, and I really only want to do it for one race atm, so all helpful advice is gratefully received.
Depends on what kind of PvP you see yourself doing. If you doing mostly small gang/solo stuff in lowsec or NPC 0.0, then Minmatar is very strong, thanks to speed. If you looking to get out into sov 0.0, then you can't really go wrong with Amarr, although even there Minmatar are becoming FOTM (Tempest and Maelstrom, Muninn for snipe HAC).
Overall, Minmatar is going to be a far easier cross-over, because the comp skills for armor-tanking are extremely important if you want to get most out your EANMs. Whereas shield comps are just nice to have, since Invuls are active.
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Idicious Lightbane
Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.02.07 01:23:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Idicious Lightbane on 07/02/2011 01:24:27
Originally by: Arrakis Shai
From what I hear cross training can be a super pain, and I really only want to do it for one race atm, so all helpful advice is gratefully received.
If your support skills are all at a good level cross training really isn't that bad. Both Amarr and Minmatar would be excellent choices, Minmatar would better compliment your current skill-set I believe as you already have the correct tanking skills etc from Caldari.
I've been spending the last 6-7 months training up all support to V, still going to be busy with that for few more months. Once that's done all I have left is permanent Perc/WP remap and crosstrain all races sub BS, only area's left to train are Spaceship command and gunnery/missiles.
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Arrakis Shai
Caldari World of Insomnia
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Posted - 2011.02.07 02:48:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Paikis Why pander to people's incorrect parroting of the 'faildari' phrase? Caldari have several viable ships in each class.
If Im honest, its partially a pandering to others opinions as Ive found most that partake in pvp will not accecpt Caldari boats for anything less than large fleet pvp, but also a personal choice to cross train after i get myself into a Widow as it was the last boat i really wanted from Caldari.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2011.02.07 02:51:00 -
[7]
If you want to hop on the fotm pvp bandwagon then train up t2 lazors and projectiles for some amarr and minnie pwnage. Granted the amarr side of it might take a bit to get too but long before then you will be basking in projectile glory with the minnie lineup.
Originally by: Blane Xero Zeba a fanboi, Haha, Christ, Pull the other one will you.
Originally by: Ryhss There is no paranoia in Eve, everyone is out to get you....
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Mister Normal
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Posted - 2011.02.07 02:54:00 -
[8]
Blaster Rokhs FTW
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Mar Lee
An Army of None
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Posted - 2011.02.07 03:32:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Paikis Why pander to people's incorrect parroting of the 'faildari' phrase? Caldari have several viable ships in each class.
This.
HAM Drake is best in class for PvP. (BTW, I drive a Honda Civic. Most reliable car I've ever owned.)
Torp Raven is excellent.
Falcon is so good it's a meme.
Now that rockets are fixed, the Caldari frigate lineup has become more than viable in PvP.
The only reason not to fly Caldari in PvP, IMHO, is if you're participating in a large fleet battle at range (hybrids and missiles are both subpar at this for different reasons). In that case, I'd suggest cross-training to Amarr; their ships of the line are all excellent.
Beyond that, Caldari + Amarr = Sansha ships. If you're looking for something 'cool' to PvP in, try a Nightmare :)
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2011.02.07 03:47:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mar Lee If you're looking for something 'cool' to PvP in, try a Nightmare :)
Even though I know you are setting him up for the bomb I will say that if you are not a total tard and have reliable gangmates a nightmare is probably one of the best small gang pvp ships in the game. Just look up dbh wildcat's vids for a testamonial.
Originally by: Blane Xero Zeba a fanboi, Haha, Christ, Pull the other one will you.
Originally by: Ryhss There is no paranoia in Eve, everyone is out to get you....
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AstarothPrime
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Posted - 2011.02.07 09:00:00 -
[11]
As advised, big blobs diversify in:
1) Shield blobs with drake / raven setup 2) Armor blobs with sniper mael / armageddon armor spider RR
Small gangs profit from:
1) HAM drake 2) ECMers 3) Shield tanked anything due to maximising gank :)
Regards
I.
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Siona Windweaver
Placeholder Holdings
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Posted - 2011.02.07 10:01:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 07/02/2011 10:02:23 It entirely depends on your gang. It doesn't matter if you want to fly x or y, as long as your corp flies gangs of z.
Caldari has good ships if your corp/alliance flies shield gangs, mixed gangs. If what your corp wants to do armor hac gangs, big fleets, capital fights all the time, Caldari then, would be worthless to you.
Check out your corp history, look at your killboard, ask your FC's, read alliance forums, and then choose to cross-train.
Finally, cross-training is not as painful as most people will lead you to believe. Once you get your tanking skills (very easy) and weapon skills (moderately easy), all that is left is the appropriate ship skill (Cruiser V / BS V / Whatever V).
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Arrakis Shai
Caldari World of Insomnia
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Posted - 2011.02.07 20:32:00 -
[13]
So im leaning towards Minni ships, for a few reasons;
* their a good cross-over from my current skill set * it sounds like their the best middle ground for an armour tanked boat for both small and large scale pvp. * after slow boating around in Caldari Ships, their speed will be a welcome change. * Most of the hulls look bad ass (Rifter/Hurricane/Tempest/Maelstrom) * those hulls that dont look good look like flying farm sheds or cattle prods (Typhoon/Stabber) which gives them a certain charcter i think
I have to admit, I was expecting more people to be expousing the Gallente lineup but meh
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Dizeezer Velar
Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees
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Posted - 2011.02.07 21:53:00 -
[14]
I trained from Caldari to Amarr initially, because I wanted to fly the Sacriledge. I ended up staying and training the full amarr line-up and sinking 16 mill sp into gunnery, then moved onto Gallente and now, Minmitar.
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Kepakh
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Posted - 2011.02.07 22:03:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Arrakis Shai
I have to admit, I was expecting more people to be expousing the Gallente lineup but meh
Minmatar can do everything what Gallente can do, just better.
Honestly, there is little reason to train anything else but currently OP Minmatar because we most likely won't see any balancing in foreseeable future.
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Magnus Orin
Minmatar United Systems Navy Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.02.07 23:48:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Magnus Orin on 07/02/2011 23:50:51 If you currently have Caldari skills (and don't say faildari, they do have several very strong ships as people above have mentioned), then in my opinion a natural race to cross train into for pvp especially would be Minmatar.
Gallente and Amarr primarily armor tank, which would not complement your current skill set.
Minmatar armor tank in a few occasions, but almost all ships can be fitted to shield tank very well, which provides ample opportunity for tons of gank modules.
Minmatar have excellent pvp ships in all sub capital ship classes.
Edit: Minmatar ships can also benefit well from strong missile skills (3 utility slots on the Cyclone, 5 launcher hard points on the Typhoon [an awesome BS don't let anyone tell you different], the Hound, the Breacher [lol] etc) Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you. |
REQUIEMSORN
Caldari BOOM BOOM POW
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Posted - 2011.02.08 01:12:00 -
[17]
Train them all. That way you can always fly the new FOTM and evade the nerf bat. |
Paikis
Red Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.08 01:21:00 -
[18]
Originally by: REQUIEMSORN Train them all. That way you can always fly the new FOTM and evade the nerf bat.
The nerf bat can always find you. It may have to search a bit more for you, but it can always find you.
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Arrakis Shai
Caldari World of Insomnia
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Posted - 2011.02.08 02:16:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Arrakis Shai on 08/02/2011 02:17:13 I thought the nerf bat was using the advanced new F.O.R.U.M T.R.O.L.L guidance system...
and before you ask the systems full name: Forum Operated Recoil Under Managed
Targeting Relay Of Lengthy Lol's
edit: - realised it might sound like a dig at the above poster. Not the case, just bored at work
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.02.08 02:21:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Arrakis Shai If Im honest, its partially a pandering to others opinions as Ive found most that partake in pvp will not accecpt Caldari boats for anything less than large fleet pvp, but also a personal choice to cross train after i get myself into a Widow as it was the last boat i really wanted from Caldari.
Missile boats are fine to blow pos's
But you can also:
Snipe? Minmatar Small gang? Minmatar Flexibility and race needed for the best pirate ships? Minmatar Ubber pownmobiles? Minmatar
I would personaly have some trouble with all those choices, I understand your hesitation.
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Paikis
Red Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.08 02:46:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Swynet
Originally by: Arrakis Shai If Im honest, its partially a pandering to others opinions as Ive found most that partake in pvp will not accecpt Caldari boats for anything less than large fleet pvp, but also a personal choice to cross train after i get myself into a Widow as it was the last boat i really wanted from Caldari.
Missile boats are fine to blow pos's
But you can also:
Snipe? Minmatar Small gang? Minmatar Flexibility and race needed for the best pirate ships? Minmatar Ubber pownmobiles? Minmatar
I would personaly have some trouble with all those choices, I understand your hesitation.
Fail troll is Fail.
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.02.08 04:48:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Paikis
Originally by: Swynet
Originally by: Arrakis Shai If Im honest, its partially a pandering to others opinions as Ive found most that partake in pvp will not accecpt Caldari boats for anything less than large fleet pvp, but also a personal choice to cross train after i get myself into a Widow as it was the last boat i really wanted from Caldari.
Missile boats are fine to blow pos's
But you can also:
Snipe? Minmatar Small gang? Minmatar Flexibility and race needed for the best pirate ships? Minmatar Ubber pownmobiles? Minmatar
I would personaly have some trouble with all those choices, I understand your hesitation.
Fail troll is Fail.
Bigest alpha weapon system?
Final blow in killmails top?
Angel Ships?
You twolling?
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I likegirls
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.02.08 05:58:00 -
[23]
If missiles, then I would just cross train for amarr.
If you are hybridari crosstrain Gallente, since they use hybrids too.
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Paikis
Red Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.08 06:12:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Paikis on 08/02/2011 06:12:53 Ok, so I'm bored and have nothing better to do;
Sniping: - Highest DPS at range? Amarr - Longest range? Caldari (By a loooong way) - Biggest alpha? Minmatar Minmatar do not win by default, there are other things to consider.
Small gang: - What about using Gallente where their face-melting DPS is useful? - What about Caldari ECM boats to engage larger groups? - What about every race (including minmatar) having viable ships in all classes that can be used in small groups quite effectively?
Best Pirate ships: - Worm is a better version of the Ishkur - Succubus can do quite well. - Phantasm is a nice ship and does face-melting DPS with LAZORZ - Nightmare is probably the best mission-blitz ship there is and certainly is one of the highest DPS Battleships in the game. - I will admit that Minmatar <ship skill> is required for more than their fair share of pirate faction ships (60%!)
Ubber pownmobiles: - See threadnoughts on Drake. - Merlin, Kestrel, punisher, imicus and probably more can kill rifters. Rifters are popular because they're 'easy' not because they're particularly powerful. I mean how hard is it to target -> orbit at 8kms, turn your **** on and go make a cup of tea? - Rupture is nice, but so are Arbitrators, Vexors, Thoraxes, Caracals, Rooks, Falcons, Pilgrims, Curses, Arazus, Lachesises etc etc
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.02.08 08:11:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Swynet on 08/02/2011 08:14:58 humm, huston we've got a problem.
About facemelting blasters, something you should learn.
Also a lot, realy many, people in this thread will explain you per A+B that your demonstration is somewhere not exact.
Also about some ships where you can see some people's explanation for their good points and their bad points and so some combat "situations" opinions.
Sorry I've just edited to add this.
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Paikis
Red Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.08 08:59:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Swynet
humm, huston we've got a problem.
About facemelting blasters, something you should learn.
Also a lot, realy many, people in this thread will explain you per A+B that your demonstration is somewhere not exact.
Also about some ships where you can see some people's explanation for their good points and their bad points and so some combat "situations" opinions.
Sorry I've just edited to add this.
Alright, im not reading those threadnoughts, so I'm just going to assume that they're roughly about what their titles suggest. Basically those threads are about 2 things, Gallente ships being bad and Dramiel being OP. So of everything I have put in my previous post, you've decided to ignore almost all of it?
Gallente still have the highest DPS, its just hard to use. Dramiel may be OP, but its not unkillable. In that thread you linked someone says they kill them all the time with their Jaguar. Your comments basically are this:
Gallente suck, dramiel is OP, therefor Minmatar.
Here's my other points that you completely ignored.
Originally by: Paikis
Ok, so I'm bored and have nothing better to do;
Sniping: - Highest DPS at range? Amarr - Longest range? Caldari (By a loooong way) - Biggest alpha? Minmatar Minmatar do not win by default, there are other things to consider.
Small gang: - What about Caldari ECM boats to engage larger groups? - What about every race (including minmatar) having viable ships in all classes that can be used in small groups quite effectively?
Best Pirate ships: - Worm is a better version of the Ishkur - Succubus can do quite well. - Phantasm is a nice ship and does face-melting DPS with LAZORZ - Nightmare is probably the best mission-blitz ship there is and certainly is one of the highest DPS Battleships in the game. - I will admit that Minmatar <ship skill> is required for more than their fair share of pirate faction ships (60%!)
Ubber pownmobiles: - See threadnoughts on Drake. - Merlin, Kestrel, punisher, imicus and probably more can kill rifters. Rifters are popular because they're 'easy' not because they're particularly powerful. I mean how hard is it to target -> orbit at 8kms, turn your **** on and go make a cup of tea? - Rupture is nice, but so are Arbitrators, Vexors, Thoraxes, Caracals, Rooks, Falcons, Pilgrims, Curses, Arazus, Lachesises etc etc
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