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Nikita Alterana
The Scope Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 13:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
You are a go-ahead young marketing executive. A bachelor living it up in Villore. It is Saturday morning, and you are off to do your weekGÇÖs shopping. About to get into your hovercar, you decide to go back and check that you locked the door. By going back, you leave a minute later and miss the parking slot you would have found at the CBD and are forced to park in a nearby street instead. There are parking meters in this street, but drivers are only allowed to leave their vehicles here for thirty minutes at a time. While you are feeding the meter, someone calls your name. It is a friend you havenGÇÖt seen for a while. The friend introduces you to a neighbor of his, who he has given a lift into town. Call the neighbor Helen. You and Helen are mutually attracted, but as sheGÇÖs married, you part company. Or you donGÇÖt. Two possible scenarios present themselves.
Scenario 1. Having left the friend and Helen you go to the CBD, fill your cart, and join a queue at the checkout, a longer queue than the one you wouldGÇÖve joined if youGÇÖd parked in the lot instead of the street. By the time you get back to the hovercar, you find a sixty-two-year-old recovering alcoholic (a traffic warden) writing a ticket. You have a go at him, ruining his day. When he gets home after work the traffic warden takes it out on his wife. His wife has been feeling very put-upon of late, and her husbandGÇÖs cruel words are the final straw. She packs a bag and goes to stay with her sister two hundred miles away. In the weeks that follow, the lonely traffic warden started drinking again. He takes booze to work and loses his job. One night at home, very drunk, he decides to make himself dinner. The frying pan catches fire, the fire spreads, the house is gutted. So is the ex-traffic warden. His widow collects on the insurance and passes the rest of her life in comfort, praising his memory.
All because you went to check the door.
Scenario 2. Instead of saying good-bye to Helen in the street where you park your hovercar, you go and have coffee with her. You still get a parking ticket, but you donGÇÖt mind because you really got it on with her.Over the next few weeks you and Helen meet regularly. You start an affair. HelenGÇÖs husband finds out and comes after you. He attacks you. Defending yourself, you lash out. He falls and cracks his head open. You are arrested, tried, and sentenced to four years in prison. By the time you get out, youGÇÖve lost all confidence and ambition and have no job. You very nearly fall apart, but instead go to the backwater system of Lour in Solitude, where you spend every day walking the beaches of Lour II, looking for coins dropped by tourists. One day you meet an attractive student on vacation. She thinks you have a cute accent and runs her fingers through your nice thick beard and offers to share her sleeping bag with you. ItGÇÖs not until she returns to Hulm that she realizes sheGÇÖs pregnant. She writes to inform you of this but by the time the letter arrives youGÇÖve moved to another world, so you never learn of the pregnancy. In due course, she gives birth to a boy and doesnGÇÖt name him after you. Time passes. The boy becomes a man. He meets a girl. They choose not to marry, but they bring three children into the world, the eldest of whom becomes an accountant, the second a roofing contractor, and the third a comedian. The youngest is also a serial killer who over a two-year period butchers twelve teenage girls who, between them, in time, would have given birth to twenty-nine children, who between them, would have coparented sixty-eight children, who wouldve brought one hundred and seventy-six children into the cluster. This one hundred and seventy-six wouldGÇÖve mother or fathered four hundred and forty-two children altogether, two of whom (female twins) would have been the first living beings to cyno into sleeper space, opening to the door to human settlement in other parts of the galaxy.
And all because you went back to check the door. |
Verone
Veto Corp
293
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 13:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
What kind of idiot has to check they locked their door? Moreover, what kind of idiot has to manually lock their door these days, anyway?
How ridiculously primitive.
Verone CEO & Executor Veto Corp WWW.VETO-CORP.COM |
Azdan Amith
Order of Light's Retribution
196
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Posted - 2012.08.21 13:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nikita Alterana wrote:All because you went to check the door.
...and made a significant number of other choices.
While it is possible these scenarios could play out if the actors participate according to their designated lines and parts, the fact is that there are countless paths attached to every choice and countless choices in every day, each woven intricately together to create the fabric of the cluster in which we live. |
Nikita Alterana
The Scope Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 14:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Azdan Amith wrote:Nikita Alterana wrote:All because you went to check the door. ...and made a significant number of other choices. While it is possible these scenarios could play out if the actors participate according to their designated lines and parts, the fact is that there are countless paths attached to every choice and countless choices in every day, each woven intricately together to create the fabric of the cluster in which we live.
Thats just it isn't it though? The situation is infinitely complex, constantly unfolding. We as mere morals cannot possibly hope to understand the chaotic ripples our actions will cause. Our best models are nothing more then childish guesses at the end of the day. The human mind simply cannot deal with the complexity inherent to the system of the universe. We require something greater. And it is something greater that we must become. |
Halete
Echoes of Korgoth Initiative
401
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Posted - 2012.08.21 14:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Just think about all the billions of senseless deaths that could have been averted in years to come, all because you decided to share this. Dirty heretical mud-child, reporting in. |
Brother Ludwigus
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
5
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Posted - 2012.08.21 14:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
If only Helen married the traffic warden. Soli Deo gloria. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
382
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 14:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nikita Alterana wrote: Thats just it isn't it though? The situation is infinitely complex, constantly unfolding. We as mere morals cannot possibly hope to understand the chaotic ripples our actions will cause. Our best models are nothing more then childish guesses at the end of the day. The human mind simply cannot deal with the complexity inherent to the system of the universe. We require something greater. And it is something greater that we must become.
Whilst in part in agreement, there is a fallacy here.
One of the great things about humanity is our capacity for self improvement, and if not self improvement then the ability to build a tool to allow us to know something that we did not know before. The microscope showed us that the world was much smaller than our experience allowed; the telescope showed us that the world was much larger.
These models which you call childish guesses are the first step towards a greater understanding, a grasp of statistical behaviors which is constantly improving. Behavior can actually be predicted to a very high degree, given enough data. Things are not nearly so complex as you say. |
Tamiroth
Royal Amarr Institute
83
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 14:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
This post is exactly what I needed this evening, thank you. |
Jev North
Anshar Incorporated
76
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 14:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
If you really believe that, it's probably best you sit still in a small, well-insulated room for the rest of your life.
Welcome back, by the way! |
Nikita Alterana
The Scope Gallente Federation
20
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 14:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Nikita Alterana wrote: Thats just it isn't it though? The situation is infinitely complex, constantly unfolding. We as mere morals cannot possibly hope to understand the chaotic ripples our actions will cause. Our best models are nothing more then childish guesses at the end of the day. The human mind simply cannot deal with the complexity inherent to the system of the universe. We require something greater. And it is something greater that we must become.
Whilst in part in agreement, there is a fallacy here. One of the great things about humanity is our capacity for self improvement, and if not self improvement then the ability to build a tool to allow us to know something that we did not know before. The microscope showed us that the world was much smaller than our experience allowed; the telescope showed us that the world was much larger. These models which you call childish guesses are the first step towards a greater understanding, a grasp of statistical behaviors which is constantly improving. Behavior can actually be predicted to a very high degree, given enough data. Things are not nearly so complex as you say.
They are complex enough to be out of reach for the average human. But since humanity is composed of nothing but average humans are interacting without that level of knowledge, a lot of poor choices. From a utilitarian standpoint, humanity presently does a great deal of harm to itself. I understand that this knowledge and processing ability is out of my reach, so it makes sense to cede control to someone or something capable of understanding the true complexity of a situation. |
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Shiroh Yatamii
Alexylva Paradox
10
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Posted - 2012.08.21 14:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Halete wrote:Just think about all the billions of senseless deaths that could have been averted in years to come, all because you decided to share this.
Yes, as we're all aware IGS posting is rather deadly. With carefully-tuned logic and fundamental understanding of causality such as your own, Pilot Halete, we have hope yet!
Also, welcome to the family Nikita Alterana. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
382
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 14:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nikita Alterana wrote:
They are complex enough to be out of reach for the average human. But since humanity is composed of nothing but average humans are interacting without that level of knowledge, a lot of poor choices. From a utilitarian standpoint, humanity presently does a great deal of harm to itself. I understand that this knowledge and processing ability is out of my reach, so it makes sense to cede control to someone or something capable of understanding the true complexity of a situation.
On this we agree, for once, though personally I prefer to be a part of something capable of understanding the true complexity of a situation. In this, I have a lot of brothers and sisters who can all devote their understanding and perspective.
Weren't you dead or something, by the way? I thought you were dead. |
Nikita Alterana
Alexylva Paradox
20
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 14:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
Well of course Tiberius, everyone really should be part of it.
And no, I wasn't dead, just wasting away drinking in the shattered ruin of my estates. But I'm much better now. |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
517
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 17:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
An unsettling question for you all:
While a human mind certainly cannot pick apart the strands of fate with the finesse of a tapestry-weaver... what if there were minds who could? What if there were minds out there, that could identify the one insignificant but utterly key moment that decides whether a person becomes a nobody, or a revolutionary... |
Makkal Hanaya
Hanaya Deferment Co
284
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 17:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
I'm not sure how that thought is unsettling. Most religions provide for just such beings. although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
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Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
182
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 17:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Gotta love infinite universe theory?... |
Infomorph Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 17:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:An unsettling question for you all:
While a human mind certainly cannot pick apart the strands of fate with the finesse of a tapestry-weaver... what if there were minds who could? What if there were minds out there, that could identify the one insignificant but utterly key moment that decides whether a person becomes a nobody, or a revolutionary... A single human mind, perhaps not. But multiple minds working towards a common goal? Of course. The Gallente call them politicians. Anything else is just madness. Of course, understanding that an individual is destined for greatness, and choosing to deny that individual said greatness... why, one would be akin to a God, non? I don't see anything unnecessarily unsettling about that.
Ever looked at someone and thought, "if only they had the power to do what they say..."? Ever thought what exactly might be required to break such an individual? Looked at their psyche and found the one hole--that one temptation that they can never resist--and decided to see what would happen?
A Deceiver's Voice, a subtle lie, an obvious untruth... or even giving the truth freely to the right person.
On second thought, it's entirely possible for a single individual to understand that tapestry, if they only had the proper perspective. Don't you agree, Istvaan? |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
186
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 18:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
Infomorph Nikilaiki Ruutarhara wrote: A single human mind, perhaps not. But multiple minds working towards a common goal? Of course. The Gallente call them politicians. Anything else is just madness. Of course, understanding that an individual is destined for greatness, and choosing to deny that individual said greatness... why, one would be akin to a God, non? I don't see anything unnecessarily unsettling about that.
Ever looked at someone and thought, "if only they had the power to do what they say..."? Ever thought what exactly might be required to break such an individual? Looked at their psyche and found the one hole--that one temptation that they can never resist--and decided to see what would happen?
A Deceiver's Voice, a subtle lie, an obvious untruth... or even giving the truth freely to the right person.
On second thought, it's entirely possible for a single individual to understand that tapestry, if they only had the proper perspective. Don't you agree, Istvaan?
So....people need perspective modification implants?.. |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
517
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 18:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Infomorph Nikilaiki Ruutarhara wrote:On second thought, it's entirely possible for a single individual to understand that tapestry, if they only had the proper perspective. Don't you agree, Istvaan?
Wholeheartedly.
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Infomorph Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 18:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
Anslo wrote:So....people need perspective modification implants?.. No implants required. I'd say it's more a "situation awareness" thing. |
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Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
382
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 18:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
Infomorph Nikilaiki Ruutarhara wrote:Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:An unsettling question for you all:
While a human mind certainly cannot pick apart the strands of fate with the finesse of a tapestry-weaver... what if there were minds who could? What if there were minds out there, that could identify the one insignificant but utterly key moment that decides whether a person becomes a nobody, or a revolutionary... A single human mind, perhaps not. But multiple minds working towards a common goal? Of course. The Gallente call them politicians. Anything else is just madness. Of course, understanding that an individual is destined for greatness, and choosing to deny that individual said greatness... why, one would be akin to a God, non? I don't see anything unnecessarily unsettling about that. Ever looked at someone and thought, "if only they had the power to do what they say..."? Ever thought what exactly might be required to break such an individual? Looked at their psyche and found the one hole--that one temptation that they can never resist--and decided to see what would happen? A Deceiver's Voice, a subtle lie, an obvious untruth... or even giving the truth freely to the right person. On second thought, it's entirely possible for a single individual to understand that tapestry, if they only had the proper perspective. Don't you agree, Istvaan?
Aha, now I know who you are. |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
186
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 18:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Infomorph Nikilaiki Ruutarhara wrote:Anslo wrote:So....people need perspective modification implants?.. No implants required. I'd say it's more a "situation awareness" thing.
Wanna expand on the idea?... |
Infomorph Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 18:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Wanna expand on the idea?... I think I've derailed this topic long enough. |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
186
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 18:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
Infomorph Nikilaiki Ruutarhara wrote:Anslo wrote:Wanna expand on the idea?... I think I've derailed this topic long enough.
Oh come on between the drone brain I'm trying to get you and this new little tid bit, this derailing is far more interesting! |
Infomorph Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 18:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
Nikita Alterana wrote:And it is something greater that we must become. A mother says to the child, "Be greater than I ever was."
The child, in confusion, fights against this. "I'm not great now? What is so wrong with me?"
The grandmother shakes her head, and turns away. She has seen it all before, and will see it time and time again.
We are all great. We are all small. We are all wise. |
Nikita Alterana
Alexylva Paradox
20
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 20:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
Infomorph Nikilaiki Ruutarhara wrote:Nikita Alterana wrote:And it is something greater that we must become. A mother says to the child, "Be greater than I ever was." The child, in confusion, fights against this. "I'm not great now? What is so wrong with me?" The grandmother shakes her head, and turns away. She has seen it all before, and will see it time and time again. We are all great. We are all small. We are all wise.
Exactly. Humans have this fallacy that they are somehow strong, great powerful. That they are more then the insubstantial bags of flesh they inhabit, matters of soul and such. Its quiet a quaint notion. The notion that the average baseline human matters in any way shape or form. Everything is dust eventually. Empires fall, mountains turn to dust, cities turn to ruin. Time marches on, memories fade to myth, and myth to legend. Its easier to just accept that you don't matter, and give yourself fully over to someth--NO! This isn't right! This isn't m--
Enough. Sorry. Technically difficulty. I'm fine though, I assure you.
Ms. Ruutarhara, it has been quite a while, but I do believe I know you....interesting. |
Makkal Hanaya
Hanaya Deferment Co
286
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 20:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Nikita Alterana wrote: Humans have this fallacy that they are somehow strong, great powerful. That they are more then the insubstantial bags of flesh they inhabit, matters of soul and such. Its quiet a quaint notion. Are you suggesting capsuleers are non-human, or are you calling the concept of an infomorph 'quaint?' although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
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Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
382
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 20:14:00 -
[28] - Quote
Makkal Hanaya wrote:Nikita Alterana wrote: Humans have this fallacy that they are somehow strong, great powerful. That they are more then the insubstantial bags of flesh they inhabit, matters of soul and such. Its quiet a quaint notion. Are you suggesting capsuleers are non-human, or are you calling the concept of an infomorph 'quaint?'
I was about to point this out, actually.
Nikita, your very existance shows that you are something more than meat. You are data. The meat shell which it inhabits has likely been tossed away like so much clothing on at least one or two occasions, yes?
You are getting depressive, and if that little outburst is anything to go by your are also getting a bit on the mentally ill side. Seek help. |
Infomorph Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 20:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
Nikita Alterana wrote:Exactly. Humans have this fallacy that they are somehow strong, great powerful. That they are more then the insubstantial bags of flesh they inhabit, matters of soul and such. Its quiet a quaint notion. The notion that the average baseline human matters in any way shape or form. Everything is dust eventually. Empires fall, mountains turn to dust, cities turn to ruin. Time marches on, memories fade to myth, and myth to legend. Its easier to just accept that you don't matter, and give yourself fully over to someth--NO! This isn't right! This isn't m-- We are all great. We are all small. There is no fallacy there.
Quote:I'm fine though, I assure you. It is not I who requires or asks for assurance.
Quote:Ms. Ruutarhara, it has been quite a while, but I do believe I know you....interesting. As the shadow knows the sun, that remains to be seen. |
Nikita Alterana
Alexylva Paradox
20
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 20:27:00 -
[30] - Quote
The capsuleer is a bit more then meat, but they too have a long way to go. The potential is there, its just a matter of finding someone with the vision to actually make that potentiality a reality. The infomorph is a step in the right direction, however, we must shed the notions of individuality that we so cherish if we are to reach our true potential.
And Tiberius, I'm fine, really, better then I've been in y--She's lyi--
Like I said, perfectly fine. I just need to finish ironing out my bugs and I'll be the best I've ever been. I finally understand. Its rather wonderful in fact. |
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