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Captain Question Time
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Posted - 2011.02.11 00:49:00 -
[1]
Just how much does eve reveal about the more power hungry among us?... Do the most rotten and evil get to the top like in real life?, toxic immoral people flooding the senate and parliaments around the globalized world?... or have things taken a different turn. Are things perhaps more democratic than they appear?
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egegergergsdgedgege
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Posted - 2011.02.11 00:52:00 -
[2]
What's bad or evil about communism? Obviously you have never read Marx.
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Cat o'Ninetails
Caldari Rancer Defence League
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Posted - 2011.02.11 00:54:00 -
[3]
I think the base denomination is charisma in almost any example of leadership, ingame or not. It is possible that there is the charismatic philanthropist leader here and there, but as the old adage goes, "absolute power..."
Communism is awesome, if you're the one in charge. So they could well be socialist/comunist/whatever.
Of course, this is all conjecture and based purely on my own opinions, your milage may vary.
x
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Captain Question Time
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Posted - 2011.02.11 00:56:00 -
[4]
Communism is an order, that's unnatural and written up and consumed by a glorified fascists, end results are the same as any other dictation... be it from book, philosopher, scholar, nutjob, it's all the same, if some1 believes my way of life is worthy of sending me to jail, when in fact I have done nothing inherintly wrong, then *******s to the people who voted it in!!
I believe my question has been answered :D
Ty student of communism
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Captain Question Time
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Posted - 2011.02.11 00:59:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Captain Question Time on 11/02/2011 01:04:36 Agreed, charisma is good, altho hitle was charismatic, like he'd just been possessed by the ultra suave satan, altho i suppose in eve, nothing is bad, since it won't necessarily (shouldn't) ruin people's lives
ty cat
need more input still, anymore thoughts, any1?
I suppose to continue, if it might, do people get spouts of power madness, also does this effect them on a personal level?... thoughts plz :P
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egegergergsdgedgege
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Posted - 2011.02.11 01:01:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Captain Question Time Communism is an order, that's unnatural
You mean like in a family or a other small groups of people?
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Lynn Roberts
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Posted - 2011.02.11 01:03:00 -
[7]
99% of the time, if the leadership of alliance X want to do something, they will do it and won't care what their peons might think about it - so not many democracies, but Evolution used to be Communist.
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Yiffi
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Posted - 2011.02.11 01:07:00 -
[8]
Originally by: egegergergsdgedgege What's bad or evil about communism? Obviously you have never read Marx.
http://www.digitalsurvivors.com/archives/communistbodycount.php
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Apocalypse Now.
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Posted - 2011.02.11 01:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Captain Do the most rotten and evil get to the top like in real life?
Most definitely.
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egegergergsdgedgege
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Posted - 2011.02.11 01:12:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Yiffi
Originally by: egegergergsdgedgege What's bad or evil about communism? Obviously you have never read Marx.
http://www.digitalsurvivors.com/archives/communistbodycount.php
Just because those regimes call themselfs communists doesnt mean they are. Do read some Karl Marx.
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Captain Question Time
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Posted - 2011.02.11 01:12:00 -
[11]
Communism relies on the fact that karl marx is god, or the creator, or a true visionay for the benefit of all mankind, to put full theoretic faith into... then, there is no way to tell w/o taking away people's freedoms, which is a catch 22... when they did implement it, China Happened, proceeded by Soviet Russia. Communism is pretty bad Mm'kay. I'm a little worried that alliance leaders follow and use these doctrines to aid thei isk balance lol
regards
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egegergergsdgedgege
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Posted - 2011.02.11 01:15:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Captain Question Time Communism relies on the fact that karl marx is god
What are you smoking?!?
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Captain Question Time
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Posted - 2011.02.11 01:28:00 -
[13]
So, communism can only exist in 0.0, or perhaps W-space and lowsec
this whole debate whether it's good or not is besides the point, I want to know if the same, power mad ****balls, like in RF get to the top... and it's been answered. somewhat bluntly, but that's okay
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Kara Sharalien
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.02.11 01:35:00 -
[14]
Communism as a concept is a very good one. Unfortunately, most people do not wish to let go of the concept of ownership, which means that in real life it has never been properly implemented.
In B4 OOPE The Adelaide meet, be there! |
Idicious Lightbane
Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.02.11 01:35:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Idicious Lightbane on 11/02/2011 01:37:20
Originally by: egegergergsdgedgege
Originally by: Yiffi
Originally by: egegergergsdgedgege What's bad or evil about communism? Obviously you have never read Marx.
http://www.digitalsurvivors.com/archives/communistbodycount.php
Just because those regimes call themselfs communists doesnt mean they are. Do read some Karl Marx.
So please point out a communistic regime that has actually worked out, there are none. The idea is novel but human nature will always cause it's leadership to become corrupt. Here are 2 quotes to think on:
'All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others' 'Power will corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely'
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Leil Ren'Do
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Posted - 2011.02.11 01:37:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Captain Question Time Just how much does eve reveal about the more power hungry among us?... Do the most rotten and evil get to the top like in real life?, toxic immoral people flooding the senate and parliaments around the globalized world?... or have things taken a different turn. Are things perhaps more democratic than they appear?
The only thing this poast reveals is how dumb you are
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Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.02.11 01:39:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Captain Question Time So, communism can only exist in 0.0, or perhaps W-space and lowsec
this whole debate whether it's good or not is besides the point, I want to know if the same, power mad ****balls, like in RF get to the top... and it's been answered. somewhat bluntly, but that's okay
Communism... now what is your definition of communism, is it totalitarian rule by a despot as experienced under Uncle Joe or is it the humanity as espoused by Christs attitude to society as in you are your brothers keeper so help him dude?
Now your either a fox clone/troll or have read atlas shrugged and think your informed....
...... continues overleaf. |
Leil Ren'Do
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Posted - 2011.02.11 01:43:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Brainless Bimbo
Originally by: Captain Question Time So, communism can only exist in 0.0, or perhaps W-space and lowsec
this whole debate whether it's good or not is besides the point, I want to know if the same, power mad ****balls, like in RF get to the top... and it's been answered. somewhat bluntly, but that's okay
Communism... now what is your definition of communism, is it totalitarian rule by a despot as experienced under Uncle Joe or is it the humanity as espoused by Christs attitude to society as in you are your brothers keeper so help him dude?
Now your either a fox clone/troll or have read atlas shrugged and think your informed....
I have you know that communism is hard to come up with. Some smart dudes with beards thought it up. Ofc we as a species are kinda not ready at all yet to make that work, but the point is coming up with it and envisioning it is kinda genius.
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Blacksquirrel
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Posted - 2011.02.11 01:43:00 -
[19]
I'd say it's a matter of drive and charisma...clearly you're content to follow them/***** and moan rather than be a non evil leader your self. You are also free to not join their alliance or corp if they really are that big of a ****.
But really it's mostly about who's willing to put in the most effort to run such organizations.
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.02.11 01:43:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Captain Question Time Just how much does eve reveal about the more power hungry among us?... Do the most rotten and evil get to the top like in real life?, toxic immoral people flooding the senate and parliaments around the globalized world?... or have things taken a different turn. Are things perhaps more democratic than they appear?
As mentioned, charisma is important, though the main defining characteristic is the ability to create compelling gameplay content for your members. ...
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Awesome Possum
Gallente Isk Relocation Services
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Posted - 2011.02.11 01:45:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Brainless Bimbo
Originally by: Captain Question Time So, communism can only exist in 0.0, or perhaps W-space and lowsec
this whole debate whether it's good or not is besides the point, I want to know if the same, power mad ****balls, like in RF get to the top... and it's been answered. somewhat bluntly, but that's okay
Communism... now what is your definition of communism, is it totalitarian rule by a despot as experienced under Uncle Joe or is it the humanity as espoused by Christs attitude to society as in you are your brothers keeper so help him dude?
Now your either a fox clone/troll or have read atlas shrugged and think your informed....
there was nothing communistic/socialistic about the teachings of christ. he taught charity and giving from the heart with what you could spare. communism and socialism force you to give, whether you want to or not, whether you can afford to or not. ♥
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Captain Question Time
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Posted - 2011.02.11 01:47:00 -
[22]
"Communism... now what is your definition of communism, is it totalitarian rule by a despot as experienced under Uncle Joe or is it the humanity as espoused by Christs attitude to society as in you are your brothers keeper so help him dude?"
working for nothing but the state, once you in 0.0, your actually not allowed to own any of the good minerals, tech moons replace gold mines or nutrient rich soils, what one of the guy's above stated, my ssmarts are irrelevant, i find this kind of credibility knocking to be crude and pointless, i'm exactly telling you that your wife and kids now belong to the state no do I :P
Now, i'm glad i insulted 1 or 2 of the ones I intended to, haha!... i'm just interested in how alliance bosses are compared to say... Nixon, or.. BUSH, or some1, do the same drives that get people to the top in RF, get the same people to the top in RF.. its a simple quesion, god!..
...continue
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Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
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Posted - 2011.02.11 01:47:00 -
[23]
WOOOOOOW someone is really misguided or trollishly vague in their political theory
Also, there are records of numerous tribal societies where systems very close to Communism worked extremely well
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
Captain Question Time
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Posted - 2011.02.11 01:52:00 -
[24]
right, this thread is locked, god!... no wonder everythings so grey... ur all terribel terrible people, my question is simple, are alliance bosses generally ****heads? more so than you grunt with 7x HMs
and it has been answered
I was complete until people started running around, calling me a ******.. jees
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Leil Ren'Do
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Posted - 2011.02.11 01:55:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Originally by: Brainless Bimbo
Originally by: Captain Question Time So, communism can only exist in 0.0, or perhaps W-space and lowsec
this whole debate whether it's good or not is besides the point, I want to know if the same, power mad ****balls, like in RF get to the top... and it's been answered. somewhat bluntly, but that's okay
Communism... now what is your definition of communism, is it totalitarian rule by a despot as experienced under Uncle Joe or is it the humanity as espoused by Christs attitude to society as in you are your brothers keeper so help him dude?
Now your either a fox clone/troll or have read atlas shrugged and think your informed....
lol you sad moron, christanity, with all it's flaws, still basicly is what made much smarter people than you envision an utpoia that was the failed experiment that is communism. I know most of you are morons but I'm willing to put an effort in here to educate you, so you better listen.
You see, it is kinda hard to form a society out of some idealistic idea. Societies are 'grown' more or less. For some person to enforce the laws of society on a group of people takes tremedous effort and passion. There are some people who more or less did this...and as it turned out failed...but the failure is not theirs. They did not fail because they dreamt of something better. Their failure was that they underestimated the animal instinctis in humans.
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mkmin
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Posted - 2011.02.11 01:55:00 -
[26]
lol @ failtroll OP. Human beings were evolved to be communist. It's completely totally natural. Early humans evolved around the need to hunt and care for each other as a family and tribe in a communistic fashion. Even though large scale communism has never worked, it does work in groups of as large as several hundred people, and does in fact result in more individual wealth and prosperity.
Toxic immoral people are ones who spread irrational discord fighting against the positive evolution of society and make troll threads on internet forums.
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Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
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Posted - 2011.02.11 01:59:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Captain Question Time right, this thread is locked, god!... no wonder everythings so grey... ur all terribel terrible people, my question is simple, are alliance bosses generally ****heads? more so than you grunt with 7x HMs
and it has been answered
I was complete until people started running around, calling me a ******.. jees
Have you ever been a part of 0.0 Alliance? If so what was your experience?
If you had started with that and not got into labeling political concepts in the most vague of terms you may have been taken serious.
With all the alts in the game and all the social engineering, your questions are all but impossible to get a simplistic answer.
In my experience, my alliance leaders have been lefty when capable and righty when necessary.
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
Captain Question Time
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Posted - 2011.02.11 02:01:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Slade Trillgon WOOOOOOW someone is really misguided or trollishly vague in their political theory
Also, there are records of numerous tribal societies where systems very close to Communism worked extremely well
Slade
Okay, i will admit, I don't know of these tribes, but im familiar with small islands in the pacific, a lot of those are nearly communist, everyopne fishes, everyone helps out, does there bit, thats by choice, and loyalty to their family.. this is obvious
should have been in the addendum, when he realised, "ive just writted a load of bull****, do do it ffs, cos it a ****ing stupid idea i mad eup.. i was also paid loads of money, and im ****ing rich now.. and u know wat.. u aint having a ****ing dime"
karl marx, hypocrit
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Captain Question Time
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Posted - 2011.02.11 02:03:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Originally by: Captain Question Time right, this thread is locked, god!... no wonder everythings so grey... ur all terribel terrible people, my question is simple, are alliance bosses generally ****heads? more so than you grunt with 7x HMs
and it has been answered
I was complete until people started running around, calling me a ******.. jees
Have you ever been a part of 0.0 Alliance? If so what was your experience?
If you had started with that and not got into labeling political concepts in the most vague of terms you may have been taken serious.
With all the alts in the game and all the social engineering, your questions are all but impossible to get a simplistic answer.
In my experience, my alliance leaders have been lefty when capable and righty when necessary.
Slade
sorry, yeh, was pretty cool, im kind of new, got into it, cos my bro is really into the w-space thing, watched and thought, "yeh, thats gud ****.. was in an okay alliance, needless to say though ive had my fair share of run-ins with tough to beat alliances, been pn oams, just 0.0 stuff really lol, .. atm, alliance leaders are intriging me th, weird thing to have to do
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Captain Question Time
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Posted - 2011.02.11 02:09:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Captain Question Time on 11/02/2011 02:11:19
Originally by: mkmin lol @ failtroll OP. Human beings were evolved to be communist. It's completely totally natural. Early humans evolved around the need to hunt and care for each other as a family and tribe in a communistic fashion. Even though large scale communism has never worked, it does work in groups of as large as several hundred people, and does in fact result in more individual wealth and prosperity.
Toxic immoral people are ones who spread irrational discord fighting against the positive evolution of society and make troll threads on internet forums.
ahh, thats just being a good homosapien, it's not a philosophy it's actually genetically us, we're naturally good people, just things hav happened and torn us apart, now people want to artifically reconnect to the standar, but that's not possible, it's been proven time and time again, wat is really needed is less jesus figures brandishing "hope" and "whistle blowing power" in a vain attempt to control your brainsocks.. and rather more weed, or something
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Lord Steffwyn
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Posted - 2011.02.11 02:29:00 -
[31]
The problem is that you need someone in charge. Committees don't work are there are alway people who think they have the answers (when then don't) or worse, when there is more than one answer (and their view is as good as anyone elses). To be a good leader (on the basis of getting co-operation rather than enforcing it), you need energy, time, fairness, and competency; and obviously a desire to lead. I have been playing MMOs for many years, when I started, I though I would like to lead my brave warband (fleet). However a after a few days of being in groups, I realised that is the last thing I want to do in my free time (I run 24:7 teams 10 - 50 engineers). I normally play healing classes as no one ever expect them to lead; I have run the odd group / raid, but that only confirmed my desire not to do it lol. So what characteristics are necessary to get to be in charge? Interesting question given that in Eve you really can't force players to do things (unlike work, or living in a Totalitarian Regime). So the only way is presenting them with something that they are going to get something (like isk) or something they will enjoy (roaming PVP wolfpack). So I think Eve leaders basically give out candy to keep their pets happy. So does that make player power hungry to have a team of pets to do their bidding? Well probably deeply disturbed but not enough to get locked up.
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Corina's Bodyguard
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Posted - 2011.02.11 02:35:00 -
[32]
You clearly know nothing about communism.
The USSR was not communist (nor could it be).. China is not communist (no matter how many morons claim it is).
Also, communism does not have the capability to be evil. It is an economic system. The evil is the government (be it dictator, democracy, monarchy, etc).
Unfortunately, I have no experience with 0.0 corps, so cannot speak to their dictatorness, or lack of such.
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Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.02.11 02:35:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Merouk Baas on 11/02/2011 02:38:11
Leading an alliance or a corp is a tiring, time-intensive, cat-herding experience. Why don't YOU try to organize 10-500 idiots who are either drunk or hyped-up on sugar and coffee, and see if you can do it with gentle persuasion and gifts of ISK to everyone. YOU try to get a few people to log in at 5 AM to save a POS because if they don't they'll lose their own ships parked in said POS.
Power-hungry my ass.
EDIT: Also, communism doesn't work. Sounds awesome on paper (to some people), but in RL if you take any sort of utopia and apply corruption, you get something horrible.
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Captain Question Time
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Posted - 2011.02.11 03:34:00 -
[34]
well, I think my main problem here is I don't in fact know much about eve :P
this has become clear
.... communism - used by corrupt leaders fascism - used by corrupt leaders democracy - used by corrupt leaders
eve - actually not really related to the question at all, more of a hobby and pastime, where some people have gotten the lions share of responsibility and get stressed out like that guy ^.. sorry to people who are offended...
eve politics - WTF??.. i dont undertand, I suppose help yer mates or a good contact, send over resources and have territory and defense agreements
nighty night o7
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Sharon Anne
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Posted - 2011.02.11 06:37:00 -
[35]
Empire is the right form of government Democracy is the right way Capitalism is the way The individual is sovereign always.
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Pretty kitty
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Posted - 2011.02.11 06:42:00 -
[36]
I killed people in the army for money in reality. I now kill people in eve for free.
Sometimes we are drawn to the things we love no matter what.
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2011.02.11 06:43:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Captain Question Time So, how communist are alliance bosses really then?
You're confusing Tranquility with Serenity... uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ Signature removed. Please submit a petition for further details. Navigator
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.02.11 06:54:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Merouk Baas EDIT: Also, communism doesn't work. Sounds awesome on paper (to some people), but in RL if you take any sort of system of government and apply corruption, you get something horrible.
Fixed that for you :)
Any system will work just as well as the people running it and providing leadership. If you have leaders who are only looking out for themselves, any system of government will become terribly corrupted. Even religious oligarchy can work if the leadership is invested in the future of the people they govern, rather than the future of the oligarchy itself.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.02.11 07:28:00 -
[39]
everyone has socialist aspects, as soon as you levy a tax for a public service you're entering socialism.
and no, communism doesn't have leaders, well its not supposed to, but elected chairmen.
that was the original idea. soviets were a series of elected bodies which eventually got up to national soviets which were all elected.
don't confuse revolutionary bolshivism, leninism or stalinism with what Marx wrote. and ignore Glenn beck to, he's paid to lie about what socialism actually is.
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AterraX
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.11 07:40:00 -
[40]
Originally by: egegergergsdgedgege
Originally by: Yiffi
Originally by: egegergergsdgedgege What's bad or evil about communism? Obviously you have never read Marx.
http://www.digitalsurvivors.com/archives/communistbodycount.php
Just because those regimes call themselfs communists doesnt mean they are. Do read some Karl Marx.
Cut the BS.
Show me 1 successfull transistion to communism that didn't end i repression and dictatorship...or crawl back into your stiking red hole...troll.
Better dead than red...
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ Fact of EVE forums: They will always come an anounomys alt-toon and question someones character... |
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Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Cloakers
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Posted - 2011.02.11 07:47:00 -
[41]
Never been a true communist society as far as I know. We are too focused on people on pedastals and too self involved for it to work for us.
Ants, Bees, .. do it well
--------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU. |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.02.11 08:42:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Alpheias on 11/02/2011 08:43:16 Stupidity doesn't come because of ideology, religious or philosophical beliefs. It is inherent in all humans, more so in some than others. |
Mr M
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Posted - 2011.02.11 08:46:00 -
[43]
Communism came as a reaction in places where the government where too weak or too corrupted to control the capitalistic powers. It's no wonder that communism grew big in the late 19th century when men, women and children had to work to put food on the tables. And that wasn't just in Russia, you had child labour in Britain and the USA too.
Get paid ISK writing about Eve |
egegergergsdgedgege
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Posted - 2011.02.11 08:59:00 -
[44]
Communism works in game and real life where a groups of people trusts each other. Therefor the group of people has to be rather small. There are many examples of communistic working communities in our world.
Families for example work communistic. You would charge your kids for food or their room. Same with your wife. Most things you do benefit the community and not only yourself. There are many more "primitiv" cultures that still dont have a concept of personal ownership. If there is cow for example it doesnt belong to a single person but the whole clan. Or if there is a tool everybody can and will use it. Communism stops working as soon as people start asking what the other guy did and why the other guy does way less for the community than me. This happens as soon as the community becomes too big normally.
In eve communistic structures in corps can work very well and they do not require some kind of dictator on the top. In fact communistic corps stop working as soon as a single person grabs everything for himself. Communistic corps work best if the corp is a rather small group of friends. The concept is easy and simple. Everything you do, you do for the corp. Run some missions? Throw the loot in the corp hangar and donate the bounties to the corp. Do some industry? The money you made goes to the corp. And so on. Therefore you will get everything frm the corp too. Its like sharing one hangar and one wallet. It stops working as soon as some people start asking why the other guy did get the shiny new battleship even though he does way less than they do. And many communistic corps broke apart because of this after they grew to big.
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Floating Lemming
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Posted - 2011.02.11 09:14:00 -
[45]
Well some alliances are run like theocracies, where the leader is a prophet and his closest circle of advisors(directors) are the priesthood.
Ofc a lot of those only last untill said leader gets less active and players loose our on their messiah.
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Eastman Color
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Posted - 2011.02.11 09:55:00 -
[46]
The trouble with communism is't it scales poorly.
Small numbers of people, that think the same way and are happy to work towards the benefit of the group work really well.
Look at some of the small communities\comunes\cabutses around the world.
Once it starts scaling up people start getting different ideals about many things which breaks it down quite quickly.
I like the idea though, everyone working together and progressing as one
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.02.11 10:07:00 -
[47]
Originally by: egegergergsdgedgege What's bad or evil about communism? Obviously you have never read Marx.
The fact that it has to be implemented using humans. It's aà ehmà suboptimal combination, let's say. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Ai Shun
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.11 13:44:00 -
[48]
Originally by: egegergergsdgedgege Communism stops working as soon as people start asking what the other guy did and why the other guy does way less for the community than me.
One day we're all going to go to Heaven, sit around on clouds playing harps and we'll all be happy and content with that forever.
:nods:
We, as human beings, have drive built into us. We have a competitive spirit. It is what has led us to create, both economically, materially, artistically - in all spheres. But some of us have less drive than others.
You'll find them sitting on street corners. Even here, in a social-democracy, where the taxes of those with drive and ambition pay a fair wage to those who have no desire to contribute to society they sit on street corners. They have access to free education; grants for just about everything under the sun.
And still. Human beings are flawed, strange creatures. A Communist society, as described, can never exist. There will always be resentment. There will always be somebody who works a bit harder than the others. There are some who will sit in the shade and watch. It's just the way people are made.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2011.02.11 14:52:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Captain Question Time it's not a philosophy it's actually genetically us, we're naturally good people
With regard to people, this is the worst presumption you could ever make.
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Grog Barrel
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Posted - 2011.02.11 15:05:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Captain Question Time Just how much does eve reveal about the more power hungry among us?... Do the most rotten and evil get to the top like in real life?, toxic immoral people flooding the senate and parliaments around the globalized world?... or have things taken a different turn. Are things perhaps more democratic than they appear?
Implying communism ever saw the light and people critizing it are NOT small-*****-jerks trying to keep their fears and unsecurity away just by repeating what 3 half thinking sexual harrased old men said, right?
then, high five bro!
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Reiisha
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2011.02.11 15:51:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Reiisha on 11/02/2011 15:55:25
Originally by: Captain Question Time Communism is an order, that's unnatural and written up and consumed by a glorified fascists, end results are the same as any other dictation... be it from book, philosopher, scholar, nutjob, it's all the same, if some1 believes my way of life is worthy of sending me to jail, when in fact I have done nothing inherintly wrong, then *******s to the people who voted it in!!
If he honestly can't see the ridiculously major hypocricy in his own statement, any further attempt at discussion with him is pretty much pointless if you ask me.
Aside from that, i wonder why no one ever bothered to look at a hybrid - Communistic town communities and an indirect democracy on top, though no individuals are chosen, only groups of representatives of a certain ideal.
This still makes every vote matter, but unifies a democratic system and prevents individuals from being put on a pedestal, at least attempting to make sure politicians actually care about the people that vote them into office.
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
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Asp IV
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Posted - 2011.02.11 15:58:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Originally by: Captain Question Time it's not a philosophy it's actually genetically us, we're naturally good people
With regard to people, this is the worst presumption you could ever make.
Confirming that humans as a specie have survived through evolution with pro social behavior traits, does not take away that fact that the individuals themselves (or in cadres) can act like sociopaths. Social Darwinism aside (which is in fact misquoted spencerism); we are a social animal that are prone (since these traits survived the selectiveness of evolution) to compassion, empathy, at least compared to other animals who lacks prospective thinking.
Everything that humans do is per definition "natural".
Propaganda is a soft weapon; hold it in your hands too long, and it will move about like a snake, and strike the other way.
Elaborate Anachronism is shooting someone with a gun, and find out they |
Blacksquirrel
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Posted - 2011.02.11 16:03:00 -
[53]
Isnt there a difference between tribalism, and communism... I mean they're drastically different. I'd just like to point that out.
But yes sometimes to lead you need to be a ****.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.02.11 16:08:00 -
[54]
What the hell do the commies have to do with how alliance leaders act. This is better answered by analyzing human behavior than tacking on some real life ideology as a way to explain why they are all mostly greedy gits who could care less about their peons. But if you really want to stick a name to it then call it feudalism as that is the real way nullsec is run. Basically its a bunch of nobles and their courts who band together their territories for mutual defence and profit for said nobles and their courts or plot backstabs to make a noble house fall and gain the former lords peons and holdings. Regardless of the current political landscape the peons still get pee'd on. Oh and CCP is the king sitting in his jovian castle with the royal army protecting him. As long as the nobles keep paying the king he lets them do as they will. That pretty much sums up nullsec leadership.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.02.11 16:27:00 -
[55]
Ugh, real world "communism" isn't communism.
Theoretical communism would occur after a society transitioned from capitalism to socialism to communism. It's supposed to be a utopia.
Imagine what kind of society would develop if we had Star Trek replicatators and unlimited energy. If we no longer needed capitialism to distribute scarce resources, what system would replace it?
However, a lot of "communists" didn't want to wait until a society naturally progressed from capitalism to socialism to communism, so they decided to speed up the process by adding revolution to the plan. Meaning, let's actively encourage the overthrow of existing capitalistic governments to accelerate "progress." (Which is one reason why the US was so freaked out by red infiltrators during McCarthyism.)
In reality, most "communist" states are just centralized economies where a committee decides on production priorities and prices, i.e. state capitalism.
As for null-sec alliances, I think Zhim'Fufu nailed it as being an example of feudalism.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Jno Aubrey
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.02.11 16:44:00 -
[56]
Communism can't compete with capitalism - there is no incentive to the individual to invent, to strive to improve his lot, to go above and beyond, to stretch his boundaries.
As for 0.0 alliances I second the idea that they are mostly feudal societies. You have your King, your nobility, and your peons. I think it works pretty well as a governing system for EVE. __________________________________________________ Name a shrub after me; something prickly and hard to eradicate. |
skye orionis
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Posted - 2011.02.11 16:48:00 -
[57]
Originally by: stoicfaux
Imagine what kind of society would develop if we had Star Trek replicatators and unlimited energy. If we no longer needed capitialism to distribute scarce resources, what system would replace it?
Federation society in Star Trek is essentially a communist utopia. Klingon society is a meritocracy. The Ferengi are capitalists. Vulcans are a meritocratic theocracy. Cardassians? They're the evil dictator types, using scarcity to reward and control their citizens. The Borg, well since you've got a group mind, everyone can vote and be heard instantly, they're a futuristic democracy.
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Neamus
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Posted - 2011.02.11 17:00:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Pretty kitty I killed people in the army for money in reality. I now kill people in eve for free.
Sometimes we are drawn to the things we love no matter what.
So your great love in life is ending other peoples lives? I can understand enjoying playing a game about it, but I'm not sure I could murder someone irl and enjoy it. They would have to have really wound me up before hand.
Were you like that before you joined the army, or did you just develop a taste for it after a few kills?
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Reiisha
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2011.02.11 17:06:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Jno Aubrey Communism can't compete with capitalism - there is no incentive to the individual to invent, to strive to improve his lot, to go above and beyond, to stretch his boundaries.
Survival was replaced by money as the main driving force behind a lot of people to live. Who's to say that money can't be replaced aswell? I can only speak for myself, but i'm not going to become complacent when i don't have to worry about either money or survival.
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
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Riedle
Minmatar Paradox Collective Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.02.11 17:11:00 -
[60]
Communism has failed and will always fail because it goes against natural laws. Specifically, it puts the notion of "equality" above that of freedom. Although perhaps initially good intentioned, with what we have learned about it massive failures no one who has any grasp of modern history should still be in favour of it.
Communism has killed more people than any other ideology, including religion. It will always fail as it should. It is flawed because we are flawed.
In short, a communists envy doesn't trump a capitalists freedom, nor should it.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.02.11 17:13:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Neamus
Originally by: Pretty kitty I killed people in the army for money in reality. I now kill people in eve for free.
Sometimes we are drawn to the things we love no matter what.
So your great love in life is ending other peoples lives? I can understand enjoying playing a game about it, but I'm not sure I could murder someone irl and enjoy it. They would have to have really wound me up before hand.
Were you like that before you joined the army, or did you just develop a taste for it after a few kills?
Most active armys tend to attract the personality type that doesn't have moral issues with blowing stuff up which incidentally kills or horribly mulilates people in the process of defending whatever policies they believe in. From this pool of people there are bound to be certain types that find pleasure in killing his enemy. Good. Hire more of them to get them off the streets I say.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Moghydin
Independent Political Analysts
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Posted - 2011.02.11 17:34:00 -
[62]
Communism is great, but only on paper. When applied to real ppl it fails horribly spawning worst and bloodiest dictatorships the world ever known. There's not a single example of successful communist country or government (if we exclude hunter-gatherer tribes that still live like their forefathers lived at the stone age). The essence of communism - contribute as much as you can, be rewarded as much as you like. Obviously there's no money and private property because everything is available for everyone for free. But ppl by nature are greedy, egoistic power hungry bastards (well, slightly exaggerating). Some ppl will try to take as much as they can without contributing anything. Besides that, every system that is based on good will or wisdom of the ruling elite will turn into monstrosity when you apply corruption to it. that's why monarchies, dictatorships and theocracies fail badly. The only system that manages to function relatively well is something that has restraints and counterweights to limit the corruption and natural greed. That system is capitalism and western democracy. Of course it can not be built in every society, there's a lot of pre-conditions for that, but it's not the place to discuss it at length.
Bottom line is - doesn't matter how you dislike western capitalism and democracy it is still the best thing that works in reality in those societies that are lucky enough to have necessary conditions for that.
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Ehranavaar
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Posted - 2011.02.11 17:49:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Yiffi
Originally by: egegergergsdgedgege What's bad or evil about communism? Obviously you have never read Marx.
http://www.digitalsurvivors.com/archives/communistbodycount.php
the fact that a bunch of goons called themselves communists doesn't make the for real communists. it you want a for real communist body count try adding up all the people killed by say hutterites in the last century.
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.02.11 17:58:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Ehranavaar it you want a for real communist body count try adding up all the people killed by say hutterites in the last century.
Bah, pacifists. Pacifism only works if someone else is willing to defend you.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Almori
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Posted - 2011.02.11 18:50:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Captain Question Time
Originally by: Slade Trillgon WOOOOOOW someone is really misguided or trollishly vague in their political theory
Also, there are records of numerous tribal societies where systems very close to Communism worked extremely well
Slade
Okay, i will admit, I don't know of these tribes, but im familiar with small islands in the pacific, a lot of those are nearly communist, everyopne fishes, everyone helps out, does there bit, thats by choice, and loyalty to their family.. this is obvious
should have been in the addendum, when he realised, "ive just writted a load of bull****, do do it ffs, cos it a ****ing stupid idea i mad eup.. i was also paid loads of money, and im ****ing rich now.. and u know wat.. u aint having a ****ing dime"
karl marx, hypocrit
You think Marx was rich? You do know he needed money from his friend Engels to survive, yes? You do know his wife needed to beg money so their children would not die from hunger, yes? Also, your knowledge on communism is mediocre at best.
Marx has lived a poor man's life for a very long time (although he was wealthier than most the rest of the time). You obviously don't know the man, nor his writings. Please stop writing nonsense about things you know nothing about (this includes communism). Thank you.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2011.02.11 19:50:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Captain Question Time Communism is an order, that's unnatural
Quite the opposite, actually. It's the only way large groups of creatures exist in large numbers.
You could say humans living in groups but still only caring about themselves is what's unnatural.
Sincerely, Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Camios
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2011.02.11 20:47:00 -
[67]
This topic can be quite interesting, but people use to think about politics as they think about football.
I'll quote egeregersts ecc, the word "Communism", red flags and stars were used in the 20th century just as flags, "support USSR and fight USA because we are on the weak's and worker's side". But they were lying. "Communism" was not a lie, the liars were those who proclaimed themselves communist. I have nothing to say to those who are counting bodies. They are just forgetting something too big to be serious.
That said, in EVE the problem is trust, and communism without trust is impossible.
P.S.: This thread should be locked.
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CCP Adida
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.11 21:58:00 -
[68]
Locked as thread is directed toward a political discussion which is not allowed on the forums.
Adida Community Rep CCP Hf, EVE Online
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