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Holdout	Posted - 2011.02.11 18:58:00 - [1] Has anybody noticed how many bots are running around gobbling up all the ore lately? Is there any way to stop this from going on? Is filing a petition the way to go?
Golanik	Posted - 2011.02.11 19:11:00 - [2] Has anybody noticed how many threads have been posted complaining about bots gobbling up all the ore lately? Is there any way to stop this from going on? Is filing a petition the way to go?
Boltorano Fourth Circle Total Comfort	Posted - 2011.02.11 19:15:00 - [3] Egads! This is a completely new problem and CCP should be notified of this worrisome trend ASAP.
Nhi'Khuna Sandman Inc.	Posted - 2011.02.11 19:16:00 - [4] Originally by: Golanik Has anybody noticed how many threads have been posted complaining about bots gobbling up all the ore lately? Is there any way to stop this from going on? Is filing a petition the way to go? It's a legitimate question, dude. Or is the troll fodder a little light on the menu today? To answer the OP's question, I haven't noticed an over abundance of what might be bot miners as of late. Can anyone else confirm this?
Holdout	Posted - 2011.02.11 19:20:00 - [5] I haven't played the game in 4 years and have just reactivated my account. This problem didn't really exist (or I didn't notice it) back then. I'm just wondering if filing a petition is the only ammunition that players have in this situation. Thanks...
Zircalla	Posted - 2011.02.11 19:31:00 - [6] A corp mate in hi-sec said that he has been operating in a noob system for a couple weeks, and noticed a 23/7 mining hulk, according to his observations and supported by some other pilots in the area. He reported it and hasn't seen it since. Don't know if it was a bot or if CCP was in any way involved.
Golanik	Posted - 2011.02.11 19:58:00 - [7] Originally by: Holdout I haven't played the game in 4 years and have just reactivated my account. This problem didn't really exist (or I didn't notice it) back then. I'm just wondering if filing a petition is the only ammunition that players have in this situation. Thanks... So you've been gone a while. It wouldn't hurt to peruse the forums for a little while to see if anyone else has posted on this topic (they have, thousands of times) and get a feel for what's going on. Bots are enemy #1 right now and I guarantee CCP is aware of the perceived problem.
Infinitio Krystallos	Posted - 2011.02.11 21:47:00 - [8] I was legitimately Ice Mining in Nakugard for my alt's Corp POS with a Mack/Orca combo. There were 25 other Mackinaws with absolutely no Orca support. Not even a Mastodon hauler. All bots absolutely everyone of them I guarantee you. Went to Hadji to Ice mine where there is NO STATION. I was the only one in that Ice belt for 5 hours. Solution: put ice belts in systems with no station only. The only other legitimate miner in that Nakugard belt was a poor Retriever who got ganked for being in a Retriever. C'est la vie in EVE.
Xylengra	Posted - 2011.02.11 22:52:00 - [9] There probably are more bots running here just over a week before Hulkageddon, makes sense to me (if I put myself in their place). There are certainly more bots running since the OP last played. Petitioning is the only official way to report them. Suicide ganking them is the only other option. Neither of those two options is very effective. CCP will VERY rarely actually ban a botting account - after something like three warnings. When, after petitioning a suspected botter, you no longer see them, they have, most likely, either moved to different systems or received a (very) temporary ban. Hisec botters are, simply put, not the problem and will never disappear completely. There are entire nullsec alliances funded by hundreds and hundreds of botters, both mining and ratting versions. CCP is, rightly, concentrating on those botters that then sell their isk for real-life money. Expecting some big change in botting in general, though, is a pipe dream. Macro writers are clever to begin with and can and will adapt much faster than CCP will. It is an issue with every wealth-building MMO out there. As with almost everything else in Eve, it is much better that you, the 'honest' player, learn to adapt to the 'world' at hand and not spend your game time raging about things that are not going to change.
Jon Archqus	Posted - 2011.02.11 23:54:00 - [10] Perhaps you should leave heavily populated space.. I never have much problems finding ore even 12-14 hours after DT.
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2011.02.12 10:26:00 - [11] I haven't noticed an increase in bots.. but I have noticed a large increase in players. The local players in my space of choice have increased by about double in the last 2 years. Since we all share the same belts, of course they are depleted more quickly. There are very few miners that I would consider actual bots.. on the other hand I'm seeing quite a few apparent bots that run missions these days.
ACY GTMI Veerhouven Group	Posted - 2011.02.12 11:05:00 - [12] This one made me a little suspicious. I don't ordinarily mine ice, but my mining partner talked me into a couple of days of it. First morning a capsule showed up and sat next to an ice cube for a while. Oh well. Second day, same time, same capsule, same place. Hmmm. Third day, same thing. I think it would do you more good to poke yourself in the eye with a stick than petition CCP. They won't even define 'starter system'.
Hakkar'al Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.12 11:23:00 - [13] Originally by: Holdout I haven't played the game in 4 years and have just reactivated my account. This problem didn't really exist (or I didn't notice it) back then. I'm just wondering if filing a petition is the only ammunition that players have in this situation. There is this thing known as Hulkageddon
Tasko Pal Spallated Garniferous Schist	Posted - 2011.02.12 15:32:00 - [14] Actually, you might have better luck with a petition during the week before Hulkageddon. Min prices are very high now and might get higher before the end of Hulkageddon. Anyone running macrominers has a larger than usual incentive to take risks and mine like crazy. What that means is that you might see some macros doing unusual stuff that will get them caught faster than normal.
raney ilara	Posted - 2011.02.12 23:07:00 - [15] Edited by: raney ilara on 12/02/2011 23:07:36 Quote: What that means is that you might see some macros doing unusual stuff that will get them caught faster than normal. Probably not.. There are two players that I suspect bot from time to time near my home system. I cannot prove it... because these things cannot be proven without an invasive measure in the client. However, this week I'm seeing both these players flying osprey's. By the way, mission bots out number possible mining bots in my home system by about 20 to 1.
Zeb Rain	Posted - 2011.02.13 12:29:00 - [16] How do you even tell a botter from a normal miner? Forgive the newbism :) I guess obvious stuff like them talking in local helps etc but what really gives them away? O.o
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.13 13:49:00 - [17] If you had read the January dev blogs you would have noticed something interesting. CCP routinely acquire copies of the bot available on Internet and check them for keyloggers, trojans and recognizable behavior. So they are actively hunting for bots and some of the patches have changes in game done to fool them. The problem is that they, rightly, prioritize finding the people that use bot to gather isk for real money trading while finding people doing that for "personal use (i.e. getting isk for the owner direct use)" is a secondary goal. So when they have to chose between assigning people to check suspected bots and one of them is probably part of a RMT cartel and the other probably isn't they usually assign them to the RMT bot first. That way a lot of "personal use" bot get to live for a relatively long time. If you did read the forums 4 years ago you should remember that there were several threads about bots even at that time. The problem is more perceived today simply because there is more people on line at the same time ad the number of systems hasn't increased in proportion (and the new systems aren't interesting for bots as they are WH or FW systems), so we see more miners, mission runners and ratters in every system. Even if the percentage is the same 4 years ago if then it was 1 macro ratter every 5 systems [totally out of the blue number, no idea on the real numbers], now it is 1 every 2 system, if it was a gang of 4 miners and a hauler roaming a constellation, now it is a gang of 10 miners and 1 orca.
ClimberDave	Posted - 2011.02.13 15:23:00 - [18] Every 5th cycle of a strip miner should require the user to automatically enter a random code thrown up by the exhumer it is fitted to.
Sully Tude	Posted - 2011.02.13 15:47:00 - [19] The problem, and I'm sure CCP knows this, is that about between 75 and 90% of all miners are bots. If you were to ban them all, the market would absolutely go to hell. Imagine t1 ships prices increasing by a factor of 3 or more. Us legit miners are just gonna have to either A) macro ourselves or B) switch to un-macroable professions to make isk. Personally I've been looking into the latter. I can make 20 million an hour TOPS mining with 2 nearly perfect hulks and a perfect orca boosting them. A single missioner can make something like 40 million an hour. Sure missions are still macroable (everything in Eve is) but you get my point.
Eden Love	Posted - 2011.02.13 16:46:00 - [20] Originally by: Sully Tude The problem, and I'm sure CCP knows this, is that about between 75 and 90% of all miners are bots. If you were to ban them all, the market would absolutely go to hell. Imagine t1 ships prices increasing by a factor of 3 or more. Us legit miners are just gonna have to either A) macro ourselves or B) switch to un-macroable professions to make isk. Personally I've been looking into the latter. I can make 20 million an hour TOPS mining with 2 nearly perfect hulks and a perfect orca boosting them. A single missioner can make something like 40 million an hour. Sure missions are still macroable (everything in Eve is) but you get my point. NO, when Bots get actively banned mining will get much more profitable for every honest miner out there and they will fill the gaps the bots leave them. And when prices really go up..so what?? Is Eve an sandbox game with open market or not? Thats what they advertise but its not real cause of all the isk Bots earn. read this - bots It just makes no sense mining in empire nor in low sec cause the bots and their owners have always an advantage. You go to null sec and mine there you will get killed by the bot owners who have unlimited isk to pay there pvp losses or hire mercs. At the other side they cant get killed cause the bots insta detect when somebody enters system or belt. You catn win against players corps alliances who own bots. YOU CANT! even if you have better pvp skills they will have many more ressources to cover all their losses and in the end you will always loose..
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.02.14 00:40:00 - [21] Originally by: ClimberDave Every 5th cycle of a strip miner should require the user to automatically enter a random code thrown up by the exhumer it is fitted to. What is the problem you are trying to solve? How will this proposed solution address that problem? How will this proposed solution impact upon existing gameplay? -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
DerekSSJ2	Posted - 2011.02.14 01:20:00 - [22] your all kidding yourself if you think CCP really cares about botters. Theyve been around, always have been, always will be and are a huge part of the economy, keeping prices down and ships affordable. I dont see why that should change... Way back when things used to be stupid expensive, 20mill to T2 fit a frigate lol... Not any more though thankfully. I think they should do what they did with EvE time codes, and just offer a legit way to bot. I havnt earned a single isk for 6 months and i've got over 2 billion... Huh wonder how i did that. If you cant beat em, join em. Mining is boring as junk anyways, and honestly should be macroable... What are you doing anyway? Fly in, click a rock... zap it till your full, and either drop it off in station or hand it off to a hauler/orca? BOOORRRINNGGGG!!! If CCP just added a way to do it, it would boost the economy since more people would do it during their downtime. Isnt a huge sale point of eve that you dont have to be on 24/7 anyway? Think about it, it could even be an interesting interface, having to program your ships computer, how it would act and respond to situations, what it would look for, how far it would travel, what it would do when rats show up, take damage, or a another miner shows... Could be pretty complex. If they did something like this, the "botters" now would loose out, because they'd be using crappier, bannable versions of what EvE already has. This is exactly what they did with PLEX and it worked. (i'm certainly enjoying not working for my ships, its improved my experience immensely, as i just like to fly)
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2011.02.14 01:58:00 - [23] Edited by: Barbara Nichole on 14/02/2011 01:59:52 Originally by: Sully Tude The problem, and I'm sure CCP knows this, is that about between 75 and 90% of all miners are bots. what?! I'm sorry, but how did you arrive at that number? I don't believe your quoted figures are correct. CCP surly did not publish those exaggerated percentages. There are more like 1 or 2 percent that I have enough suspicious to think they are bots. I spend a lot of time in belts and I communicate with the regulars there.. even some that I thought were bots turned out to be players. One guy is a bed ridden retiree; he mines on his lap top all day. Some others are home bound, or house wives like me. Exaggerated figures like these make light of a real issue.. Everyone knows you can't tell by looking at a ship floating in space whether it's a bot or not... unless of course they make mistakes like the one story above. The only thing you accomplish is fostering more resentment against all manner of regular miners by saying they have to be bots because they are in the 90 percent. This kind of propaganda perhaps assuages the guilt of suicide gankers but it does little to help the game. Using a bot is wrong and even 2% is too much but I refuse to believe that nearly ever miner I see is a bot.
Jet'leia	Posted - 2011.02.14 05:32:00 - [24] i kinda see DerekSSJ2 point, I really dont see why others are crying about bots? Do missioners and PVPers get affected by macro miners? and i doubt CCP would ban an account for botting, think about it, its not beause the game economy would fail, its real life money, how much of a loss of profits would CCP take if they banned every account that had a bot used on it?
Varisto	Posted - 2011.02.14 05:57:00 - [25] Originally by: ClimberDave Every 5th cycle of a strip miner should require the user to automatically enter a random code thrown up by the exhumer it is fitted to. Why stop just strip miners? Lets add that to every 5th market order you do, every 5th weapon activation you do, etc... Heck while were at it, lets put that in everything you can do ingame. Every 5th action requires you to enter random code you have to decipher from nasty captcha.... Good luck trying to kill enemy or something...
Skrymir Osiris	Posted - 2011.02.14 09:28:00 - [26] Mining bots are good and bad. Good thing is that they keep the prices low, bad thing is that they keep prices low. The worst thing about macrominers and bot is that it makes people hate every other actual miner too. I run 4 ship mining fleet alone. It's alot of micromanagment when 3 hulks fill Orca fast. Sometimes I just take 2 hulks and one cruiser to kill/salvage the rats that keep harrasing my poor hulks. I too have been accused to be a bot. Why? Because I do mining, refine the ore, build ammo, ships and modules for pvp and pve players. But no matter what, bot's are here to stay. No matter how many hulkageddons you do, no matter how many of them you report they simply won't go away. Best thing is to do bot hunting 23/7. Of course this would eventually fail because bloodthirsty players just want to kill everything that moves when they get the taste of podfluids. But some gentlemen rules should apply here. See a lone hulk mining. Convo or ask something in local, no response, possible bot, KILL! Got a respond, have a nice chat and leave him be, continue looking. Also bot's seem to like stay in same areas so if you know that Goram ICE belt is full of bots and only few actual players, go there, hail in local and ask miners to report. Those who fail to report, KILL! With these simple rules we can do hulkageddon or whatever 23/7 and keep actual players in mining business. Eve has many different playing styles. Some of us aren't interested about pvp or grind missions over and over gain. Im not just a miner. I try to do evertything Eve's industry career has to offer and im enjoying it. Untill some **** starts to yell on local that Im a bot and all miners should just die. (Good luck getting you ships and ** if every miner and indy toon would quit or die) Just my two cents. You can rant and flame as you please, it won't affect my psyche
Geralden	Posted - 2011.02.14 09:34:00 - [27] The code idea is actually a good one. If you are a legit miner, it would be ok once every 10 mins (with mining bonuses) to enter a code - to make sure that you dont compeate against macros. For ratting/missioning, that could pose a problem though. Even though there are ratter bots out there (alot) it's alot harder to ask the player to enter a code every 10 mins, because it will interfere alot more on legit ratters, than miners. Mining cycles are 3 min's, so if a popup shows up and you have to answer it or no modules can activate, you may be dead as a missioneer, where the miner would have a 3 min window before his mining laser shut down. Not all activities in eve are the same, or suffer the same macro problems.
Maximilien Noibzo	Posted - 2011.02.14 09:51:00 - [28] Some bots are quite advanced and can "read" screen, with some OCR software maybe. Reading a number and re-typing it is not the ultimate solution, bots will adapt to this. I think that the best that CCP can do is to change the mining process, as they did for PI, so the player (miner) will have to adapt, where a bot can't. How to do this, i have no idea.
Aphrodite Skripalle Galactic Defence Consortium	Posted - 2011.02.14 09:57:00 - [29] Please send your low end, low cost fitting which would suicide gank a mackinaw or hulk. Also write about the effort to regain the sec - loss. Whats your experience with that ? This info would help everyone who randomly wants to kill a botter.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.14 11:46:00 - [30] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 14/02/2011 11:46:50 Originally by: Geralden The code idea is actually a good one. If you are a legit miner, it would be ok once every 10 mins (with mining bonuses) to enter a code - to make sure that you dont compeate against macros. Actually a bad one. 1) advanced bots can read captcha as well or better than most players; 2) if the bot isn't capable to resolve the captcha it can alert the farmer when the modules shut down and it is unable to restart, so a single sweatshop slave can easily keep active 10 accounts inputting a captcha every minute. He will get paid to do that, boring and repetitive work but a lot of work is like that. On the other side of the coin we have regular players. You start to ask them to input capcha every 10 minutes (or even more often if they are running several accounts), a boring and repetitive activity in a game they pay to play. Care to guess who will stop mining and who wouldn't? Two answers and players keeping up mining isn't the right one.

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