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Pipe Cleaner
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Posted - 2011.02.12 20:59:00 -
[1]
Maurader, perfect guns, perfect tank, all SPs dedicated only to lvl 4 missioning, and faction mods.
I sold him because it's not worth my time to mission any more. Crap loot, falling prices, pain in the ass to salvage loot sell, boring missions.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.12 22:14:00 -
[2]
have fun with your next game
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Ragnar256
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.02.13 02:27:00 -
[3]
Well, you can join the dark underside of Eve and start killin for the heck of it. As for corps, "the united" or similar griefer corps ought to do you well.
I strongly agree that PVE in general is boring. That's the reason I rarely ever have 10mil+ isk on hand. Heck, the only time I ever made it beyond 50 mil by myself was via a Jita scam (alt of course). I am often split between gaining skills to run LV4 missions for iskies, and working on PvP skills so I don't fail and have fun. The time I lost my first Cane, I had way more fun despite losing than when I was running missions.
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knentil
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Posted - 2011.02.13 02:45:00 -
[4]
Well you coulda just kept that account then trained an alt for small ship pvp or exploration. And used the mission alt for ISK making if and when you needed it.
Assault ships Interceptors interdictors Covert ops
etc etc
This is and IM sure of a hell alot of others have done.
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Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
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Posted - 2011.02.13 04:26:00 -
[5]
Poasting to confirm that EVE = Killing rats. --------------------------------------------
Quote: EVE-Online... Too rough for ya? Don't like it? GTFO...
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Belthazor4011
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Posted - 2011.02.13 04:29:00 -
[6]
Sorry to hear OP's mission running wasn't working for him.
But why make a post about it especially in the Missions & Complexs area of the forum.
Whats OP's point with his post, what is its use?
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Valarre
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Posted - 2011.02.13 04:47:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Belthazor4011 Sorry to hear OP's mission running wasn't working for him.
But why make a post about it especially in the Missions & Complexs area of the forum.
Whats OP's point with his post, what is its use?
It's just confirming the fact that CCP is losing subscriptions due to their targeting the mission runner community and slapping them with the nerf bat all the while big Alliances get a free ride via rat botting with very little "risk for reward". Which of course is why lvl 4 missions were nerfed in the first place. Ironic? you be the judge.
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Armageddon Brown
MCLC Galactic
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Posted - 2011.02.13 08:54:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Valarre
Originally by: Belthazor4011 Sorry to hear OP's mission running wasn't working for him.
But why make a post about it especially in the Missions & Complexs area of the forum.
Whats OP's point with his post, what is its use?
It's just confirming the fact that CCP is losing subscriptions due to their targeting the mission runner community and slapping them with the nerf bat all the while big Alliances get a free ride via rat botting with very little "risk for reward". Which of course is why lvl 4 missions were nerfed in the first place. Ironic? you be the judge.
Pretty sure every objective measure shows increased subscriptions.
If all you can find to do in this game is L4 mission, you're doing it *wrong*.
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Valarre
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Posted - 2011.02.13 09:32:00 -
[9]
The problem isn't about only doing lvl 4 missions in this game. The problem is that it takes significantly more of them in order to get the same isk we were making before ccp decided to nerf them. which means in the long run less pvp ships bought to go out and pvp with, and....stuff. The harder it is for people to make isk in this game, the less time they will actually spend playing it as it was intended. With lower rewards expect to see people missioning more, because now they have to do more in order to meet the same quota before the nerf. Sure the nerf was kinda good because it helped with minerals, however if that was the sole issue with missions then they should have nerfed the minerals only, and then raised the bounties, mission rewards, mission bonuses, and mission lp rewards. But CCP didn't, which makes me scratch my head as to what they could be thinking for the future. Could they be leaning towards micro transactions? Only time will tell.
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Asp IV
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Posted - 2011.02.13 11:02:00 -
[10]
Yeah the average Battleship that used to net my mission runner >800 K /pop, now is like 250-550 K WTF and Salvage is worthless. Only fun is getting a ninja in a mission and shooting your own wrecks while ignoring local (not that I pay any attention to the chat box part of it anyway.
EvE+pve=waisting your own time and others.
Propaganda is a soft weapon; hold it in your hands too long, and it will move about like a snake, and strike the other way.
Elaborate Anachronism is shooting someone with a gun, and find out they |
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Corcyrus Endymion
Caldari Excessum Corporation Excessum Gaming
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Posted - 2011.02.13 11:37:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 13/02/2011 11:37:55 Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 13/02/2011 11:37:40
Originally by: Valarre The problem isn't about only doing lvl 4 missions in this game. The problem is that it takes significantly more of them in order to get the same isk we were making before ccp decided to nerf them. which means in the long run less pvp ships bought to go out and pvp with, and....stuff. The harder it is for people to make isk in this game, the less time they will actually spend playing it as it was intended. With lower rewards expect to see people missioning more, because now they have to do more in order to meet the same quota before the nerf. Sure the nerf was kinda good because it helped with minerals, however if that was the sole issue with missions then they should have nerfed the minerals only, and then raised the bounties, mission rewards, mission bonuses, and mission lp rewards. But CCP didn't, which makes me scratch my head as to what they could be thinking for the future. Could they be leaning towards micro transactions? Only time will tell.
Did you see what an isk faucet missioning is according to CCP? Did you? There is an ungodly amount of isk coming into the economy and only a relatively small part leaving. Do I need to spell out what happens if nothing is done? Or heaven forbid, if the bounties/mission rewards were increased even further?
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Pipe Cleaner
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Posted - 2011.02.13 13:39:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ragnar256 Well, you can join the dark underside of Eve and start killin for the heck of it. As for corps, "the united" or similar griefer corps ought to do you well.
I strongly agree that PVE in general is boring. That's the reason I rarely ever have 10mil+ isk on hand. Heck, the only time I ever made it beyond 50 mil by myself was via a Jita scam (alt of course). I am often split between gaining skills to run LV4 missions for iskies, and working on PvP skills so I don't fail and have fun. The time I lost my first Cane, I had way more fun despite losing than when I was running missions.
I indeed have a PvP-only character that I've played for years. What grinds my gears is that, as pointed out above, I used to be able to run a few missions, an hour or so a day, maybe a little more on the weekends, to earn enough to pay for my PvP ships which get blown up a lot.
Yes lvl 4 missions are easy, and are about as interesting as watching paint dry, but it was a relatively painless way for someone to pay for a PvP habit. It has been neglected for so long by CCP, and rewards nerfed to the ground, that it sucks
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2011.02.13 21:24:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Pipe Cleaner Yes lvl 4 missions are easy, and are about as interesting as watching paint dry, but it was a relatively painless way for someone to pay for a PvP habit. It has been neglected for so long by CCP, and rewards nerfed to the ground, that it sucks
when did the rewards get nerfed into the ground, I missed that memo
they haven't really been touched since "need for speed" and the lp store.
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Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2011.02.14 01:25:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Asp IV ... EvE+pve=waisting your own time and others.
how does PvP happen without PvE? are we all supposed to fly rookie ships? ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel - [jedi handwave] "There is no spoon." |
Goose99
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Posted - 2011.02.14 03:33:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ragnar256 Well, you can join the dark underside of Eve and start killin for the heck of it. As for corps, "the united" or similar griefer corps ought to do you well.
I strongly agree that PVE in general is boring. That's the reason I rarely ever have 10mil+ isk on hand. Heck, the only time I ever made it beyond 50 mil by myself was via a Jita scam (alt of course). I am often split between gaining skills to run LV4 missions for iskies, and working on PvP skills so I don't fail and have fun. The time I lost my first Cane, I had way more fun despite losing than when I was running missions.
I doubt OP was about pve in general, but rather just missions. Keep in mind that Sanctums yield 100+mil of liquid isk per hour. In deeper parts of sov null you don't see hostile for weeks on end. And leaving a ratting macro running yields you humongous income.
OP was likely turning to farming sov null with main instead of running mission alt, since it's far safer (no suicide gank, no non-blue) and far more lucrative. The penniless bum lifestyle isn't for everyone.
Originally by: Corcyrus Endymion Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 13/02/2011 11:37:55 Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 13/02/2011 11:37:40
Originally by: Valarre The problem isn't about only doing lvl 4 missions in this game. The problem is that it takes significantly more of them in order to get the same isk we were making before ccp decided to nerf them. which means in the long run less pvp ships bought to go out and pvp with, and....stuff. The harder it is for people to make isk in this game, the less time they will actually spend playing it as it was intended. With lower rewards expect to see people missioning more, because now they have to do more in order to meet the same quota before the nerf. Sure the nerf was kinda good because it helped with minerals, however if that was the sole issue with missions then they should have nerfed the minerals only, and then raised the bounties, mission rewards, mission bonuses, and mission lp rewards. But CCP didn't, which makes me scratch my head as to what they could be thinking for the future. Could they be leaning towards micro transactions? Only time will tell.
Did you see what an isk faucet missioning is according to CCP? Did you? There is an ungodly amount of isk coming into the economy and only a relatively small part leaving. Do I need to spell out what happens if nothing is done? Or heaven forbid, if the bounties/mission rewards were increased even further?
This is a common misconception. You need to realize that missions are a net isk sink, not faucet, due to LP shop sink. A large mission from top highsec lvl4 agent gives 2 mil isk rewards, 2 mil bonus, 12 mil bounty and 9k LP. LP shop items, ex, a batch of cn cruise missiles, cost 4.2k LP and 4.2 mil isk to exchange. Net isk faucet for the mission = 7 mil isk. If you blitz, or it's drone/faction/merc mission, it's a net isk sink.
It's not the same as the 100+mil isk per hour isk faucet in pure bounty from carrier chaining sanctums in sov null.
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Valarre
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Posted - 2011.02.14 09:44:00 -
[16]
exactly. You guys like to complain about how missions are an isk "faucet" and preach about risk and reward and how more reward should be in low sec or null sec. Which is a lie, it is in fact safer to run sanctums in null sec running macros bringing in trillions to the market per month, and more feasably per week, but yet you are worried about the 2-3 billion isk I was making before the nerf. Tell me now, which one is the isk sink? Of course anyone who denies this simple fact is either turning a blind eye, or lying and is running macros of their own in null. Now why would someone in null sec running macros possibly want lvl 4 missions nerfed? Gee i wonder......maybe to possibly increase sales for their rmt business?
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Valarre
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Posted - 2011.02.14 10:14:00 -
[17]
and another thing you deadheaded anti lvl4 mission fools. What you call an isk faucet does not compare neither now nor back before the nerf to what comes in via rat bots. Those earnings in comparison to our sink would be comparing a broken fire hydrant to a regular sink faucet, and I'm pretty sure that is a gross understatement. In fact I want to coin that phrase. Rat botting brings in a broken fire hydrant of isk, for little to no risk.
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GyokZoli
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.14 10:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Asp IV Yeah the average Battleship that used to net my mission runner >800 K /pop, now is like 250-550 K WTF and Salvage is worthless. Only fun is getting a ninja in a mission and shooting your own wrecks while ignoring local (not that I pay any attention to the chat box part of it anyway.
EvE+pve=waisting your own time and others.
I get exactly the same battleships since I playe Eve in every mission and I've been playing for 3 years.
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Valarre
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Posted - 2011.02.14 10:33:00 -
[19]
i havnt noticed a change in bounties so much, but the frequency of getting spectacular missions is less. It seems like you draw crappy missions for a while then you get the good ones, compared to before the nerf when you can get several really good missions back to back.
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Asp IV
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Posted - 2011.02.14 11:53:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jagga Spikes
Originally by: Asp IV ... EvE+pve=waisting your own time and others.
how does PvP happen without PvE? are we all supposed to fly rookie ships?
/extrapolating blanket statement; It¦s time wasted and no one said anything about removing it from the game (which is impossible) reductio ad absurdum aside. Wasting time is a big part of the economy. The waste of time is evident in that people find missioning choring/boring and something you have to do to be able to afford the fun part of the game, but most of all It's connected to the usual isk/hour and is inversely related to the payout.
Even if you run 10 afk domis 23/7 it's still a waste o time. The point being is that setting up a mission runner doing l4 in empire is a bigger waste of time than before (oh the horror).
Yes bounties have been nerfed as has the total package value of running l4 in empire in regard to prices: costs etc. Of course the solution is to move to more profitable areas of the game. In regard to min/maxing: Time waste in Empire> Time waste in non empire and PVE+EVE waisting your time and others, nothing controversial about that.
PvP will happen as before. Propaganda is a soft weapon; hold it in your hands too long, and it will move about like a snake, and strike the other way.
Elaborate Anachronism is shooting someone with a gun, and find out they |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.02.14 12:09:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Valarre it is in fact safer to run sanctums in null sec
So why aren't more people doing it?
Quote: yet you are worried about the 2-3 billion isk per month I was making before the nerf.
Seeing as how the actual ISK faucet portion hasn't changed, and seeing as how there are more people doing that than the aboveà yes.
Quote: Tell me now, which one is the isk sink?
Neither. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.02.14 12:24:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Goose99
This is a common misconception. You need to realize that missions are a net isk sink, not faucet, due to LP shop sink. A large mission from top highsec lvl4 agent gives 2 mil isk rewards, 2 mil bonus, 12 mil bounty and 9k LP. LP shop items, ex, a batch of cn cruise missiles, cost 4.2k LP and 4.2 mil isk to exchange. Net isk faucet for the mission = 7 mil isk. If you blitz, or it's drone/faction/merc mission, it's a net isk sink.
It's not the same as the 100+mil isk per hour isk faucet in pure bounty from carrier chaining sanctums in sov null.
It's not a "common misconception", it's an established fact. The last QEN showed that ISK actually sunk in to the LP store was approximately equal to (IIRC actualy a few percent less) the ISK paid as agent rewards/time bonuses. All the ISK from mission bounty rats is a net inflow.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.02.14 12:32:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Valarre Edited by: Valarre on 14/02/2011 09:46:56 exactly. You guys like to complain about how missions are an isk "faucet" and preach about risk and reward and how more reward should be in low sec or null sec. Which is a lie, it is in fact safer to run sanctums in null sec running macros bringing in trillions to the market per month, and more feasably per week, but yet you are worried about the 2-3 billion isk per month I was making before the nerf. Tell me now, which one is the isk sink? Of course anyone who denies this simple fact is either turning a blind eye, or lying and is running macros of their own in null. Now why would someone in null sec running macros possibly want lvl 4 missions nerfed? Gee i wonder......maybe to possibly increase sales for their rmt business?
Sanctums are a "worse" ISK faucet (no LPs, more difficult to sell loot) than missions, but they both add approximately the same amount of net ISK to the economy. Just because sanctums dont have an ISK sink to go along with the ISK fountain doesn't stop missioning from being a massive net ISK fountain.
Arguably, anomalies should have something equivalent to an LP store to help sink ISK
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2011.02.14 12:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Asp IV ... /extrapolating blanket statement; It¦s time wasted and no one said anything about removing it from the game (which is impossible) reductio ad absurdum aside. Wasting time is a big part of the economy. The waste of time is evident in that people find missioning choring/boring and something you have to do to be able to afford the fun part of the game, but most of all It's connected to the usual isk/hour and is inversely related to the payout. ... PvP will happen as before.
i think you are mixing cost and waste. in EVE, PvE is cost of PvP. if PvP could go without PvE, than PvE would be a waste indeed. waste is, by definition, useless (as in "gives no benefit"). while we might agree that PvE requires a lot of time (which might seem a waste), it's not useless. it transforms player's time to PvP tools.
a game could be made without PvE, but then it just wouldn't be the same, for better or worse. ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel - [jedi handwave] "There is no spoon." |
Deputy Dope
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Posted - 2011.02.14 15:10:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Valarre The problem isn't about only doing lvl 4 missions in this game. The problem is that it takes significantly more of them in order to get the same isk we were making before ccp decided to nerf them. which means in the long run less pvp ships bought to go out and pvp with, and....stuff. The harder it is for people to make isk in this game, the less time they will actually spend playing it as it was intended. With lower rewards expect to see people missioning more, because now they have to do more in order to meet the same quota before the nerf. Sure the nerf was kinda good because it helped with minerals, however if that was the sole issue with missions then they should have nerfed the minerals only, and then raised the bounties, mission rewards, mission bonuses, and mission lp rewards. But CCP didn't, which makes me scratch my head as to what they could be thinking for the future. Could they be leaning towards micro transactions? Only time will tell.
Raising isk rewards isnt going to buy you pvp ships any faster as the prices would just inflate; The true value of a ship is not what it costs in isk from the market but the time effort put into gathering the materials and building it.
The only way to pvp more for less time making isk is to increase material production rate, i.e boost ore mining, moon mining, reduce cost of invention etc.
Anyone who calls for a boost in isk faucets to be able to pvp more is uneducated.
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Salliene
Gallente Paktu Sjet Armada Galactic System Lords Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.14 15:43:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Valarre and another thing you deadheaded anti lvl4 mission fools. What you call an isk faucet does not compare neither now nor back before the nerf to what comes in via rat bots. Those earnings in comparison to our sink would be comparing a broken fire hydrant to a regular sink faucet, and I'm pretty sure that is a gross understatement. In fact I want to coin that phrase. Rat botting brings in a broken fire hydrant of isk, for little to no risk.
Yeah, all those guys need to do is to find a nice juicy spot of 0.0 space, create a major alliance, put up a few hundreds POS, some jump bridges, sov units, and organize a base of a few hundred players to guard the area and then BAM, instant ISK. It's so easy I don't know why everyone isn't doing it.
You guys running L4s in Empire definitely need the same payout. Sometimes you have to jump 3 or 4 systems over to run the mission! Not to mention the MINUTES it takes to loot and salvage.
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Super Failure
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Posted - 2011.02.14 16:13:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Super Failure on 14/02/2011 16:14:08 High sec missions are not a net sink. Low sec and FW ones probably are because they are more LP based rewards. Still, it would be silly to see more changes to high sec missions while the botting is so out of control.
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Mithrasith
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Posted - 2011.02.14 17:38:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Valarre Edited by: Valarre on 14/02/2011 09:46:56 exactly. You guys like to complain about how missions are an isk "faucet" and preach about risk and reward and how more reward should be in low sec or null sec. Which is a lie, it is in fact safer to run sanctums in null sec running macros bringing in trillions to the market per month, and more feasably per week, but yet you are worried about the 2-3 billion isk per month I was making before the nerf. Tell me now, which one is the isk sink? Of course anyone who denies this simple fact is either turning a blind eye, or lying and is running macros of their own in null. Now why would someone in null sec running macros possibly want lvl 4 missions nerfed? Gee i wonder......maybe to possibly increase sales for their rmt business?
A couple of points regarding this fail post. -Are you the only one making 2-3bn? If so, perhaps that's fine, but the vast majority of players live in high sec, and a large percentage of those are making the same as you are. Therefore this causes a significant inflow of ISK into the game with very very little risk.
-If you think Sanctums are so great - then go join a 0.0 corp and go farm them. Apparently you have lots of time on your hands anyways if you were making 2-3bn isk/month running missions. Oh Noes! There might be actual risk involved in 0.0 - so you had better not do that. FFS.
-And yes, CCP has proven that Mission runners are in fact one of the largest ISK faucets in the game, and that it is indeed causing too much liquidity in the system which may ruin it. Yes they need to do more about RMT and botters (thats a given) but they also needed to change missions in order to balance the economy out.
-Personally I hope they Nerf mission runners more, and also some of the 10/10 plexes slightly too as that is a significant source of isk.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente Skexcorp
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Posted - 2011.02.14 20:57:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Mithrasith
-And yes, CCP has proven that Mission runners are in fact one of the largest ISK faucets in the game, and that it is indeed causing too much liquidity in the system which may ruin it. Yes they need to do more about RMT and botters (thats a given) but they also needed to change missions in order to balance the economy out.
More nonsense from someone who doesn't understand how currency actually functions.
The problem with the economy in EVE (if there is a problem with it) isn't an over abundance of isk it's an oversupply of material or more specifically a lack of mineral sinks.
The reason is that the value of isk is determined not simply by the supply of isk but rather the supply of productivity it represents in the economy as a whole.
That's why despite all the crying people have been doing for the last 2 years about inflation prices for actual ships and modules has generally went down.
If you had systemic inflation caused by an oversupply of currency then you'd see price inflation. The absence of this tells us that the idea that too much isk is entering the economy is so much cow droppings.
Missioning is the base profession for all of EVE it's the first activity that most players engage in and serves as the primary activity for the majority of more casual players as well as being the income source for those players who do not have access to high quality isk faucets in null.
Right now I'm trying to build up my war chest for the move to null. All that nerfing payouts in this case has caused is a delay in when I finally reach my isk goal and pull the trigger on the move.
I suspect it also acts as a serious limiter on other casual players PVP activities since the more time one has to spend on earning isk to buy ships to get blown up in PVP the less time people are able to spend PVPing not to mention the effect on risk aversion. After all one is going to be far more cautious risking a ship in combat if it's going to take them 4 hours of isk grinding to replace than if it takes 2.
Which of course only exacerbates the problem since it results in even less ship destruction further unbalancing the economy.
It also works against newer and less established players who haven't found or don't have the skills to take advantage other isk generators in game. It establishes a risk averse mindset which will stick with a player through their entire career.
It would be far better for the health of the game over all if isk is easy to acquire and replace. Particularly for the newer player since it will encourage greater risk taking resulting in a more dynamic and dare I say fun environment for all.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.02.14 21:35:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Skex Relbore
More nonsense from someone who doesn't understand how currency actually functions.
The problem with the economy in EVE (if there is a problem with it) isn't an over abundance of isk it's an oversupply of material or more specifically a lack of mineral sinks.
Did you bother to read the QEN? -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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