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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Altarica
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Posted - 2011.02.16 19:00:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Altarica on 16/02/2011 19:00:27 I have just downloaded the latest patch for SISI (evepremiumpatch229669-231087_test_m.exe) and it seems that CCP have gone back to the system discussed here http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1434736, spcifically that the patch does not simply update the client but instead runs that damn blasted repair tool. I'd like a patch that just installs please, not one that seems to verify everything 3 or 4 times and takes several times as long to complete as the old method.
The Repair tool is great if something goes wrong, but there is NO NEED to run the dratted thing UNLESS YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.
I thought that the discussion we had with CCP in the above linked thread had ended with them saying the Repair Tool was not suitable for this use.
Please if it is not broken don't fix it.
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CCP Cascade
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Posted - 2011.02.17 01:41:00 -
[2]
Hi,
Can you please elaborate a bit on your feedback. Is your only problem with it that you feel that it takes longer to complete?
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CCP Mandrake
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Posted - 2011.02.17 10:28:00 -
[3]
The main problems raised in that discussion have been fixed.
The patches now cache the downloaded data and so if you wish to patch several clients you can do so without having to download the patch data multiple times.
It also has multi threaded download so that players with slow internet connections can download the patch data a bit faster.
As to it's slowness, it does a lot of caching, so next time you run it it will be a bit faster. It will still be about 2x as slower as the old patches. That might change in the future however as we further develop this thing.
In the near future, i don't see this as being the main patching mechanism for TQ, it will be a supplement. Currently we build roughly 10+ patches every time we release a new build to TQ and that literally takes upto 12 hours to compile on our build cluster. Having this type of patching mechanism allows us to cut down that time to perhaps a few minutes by only building the last-to-latest patch and then using the "repair tool" patch for all older client versions.
So for now, because we have to have this thing tested, you will have to suck it up and use the reapir tool patch (sry) or you could use the sisi launcher, which admittedly, does the same thing. Mandrake CCP - Core Infrastructure
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Altarica
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Posted - 2011.02.17 16:17:00 -
[4]
So in order to save time on your patch builds (which is a one off time cost per patch) you impose a time penalty ON EVERY CLIENT ? thats what say 100,000 pc's around the world ? at say a 20 mins increase in patch time per client (if it runs perfectly). Not much of a time saving if you ask me.
To be honest its not the additional time that patching takes with this method that is my main concern, it is that after I have downloaded the 5mb patch (for todays 231087-231631 update) the repair tool has kicked off and decided that it is going to download the entire 6.78gb of client which is taking chunks out of my monthly download allowance.
I'm not sure if the ISP's in Iceland set download limits but most of the ones here in the UK definately do, if I have to download the entire client every patch I will not have any allowance left to actually play eve when it finally does patch.
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Perramas
Caldari Pan Caldarian Ventures
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Posted - 2011.02.18 02:19:00 -
[5]
I will not suck it up and use the repair tool, I will just stop giving you free testing. And I hope this thing stays on the test server because if it is going to be used on the production server my EVE playing days are finished. |
Altarica
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Posted - 2011.02.18 09:47:00 -
[6]
I apologise for the ranting in my second post. I get extremely exasperated by what I see as the un-necessary over-complication of things.
As Scotty once said ôthe more they overtake the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the drainö
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CCP Cascade
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Posted - 2011.02.18 16:51:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Perramas I will not suck it up and use the repair tool, I will just stop giving you free testing. And I hope this thing stays on the test server because if it is going to be used on the production server my EVE playing days are finished.
We would really appreciate it if you elaborated a bit on your feedback. What do you dislike with the system, what suggestions do you have for improvement? We absolutely listen to it if you would just give it to us.
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slavedrone
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Posted - 2011.02.18 19:31:00 -
[8]
not so bad when you have an SSD or RAID 0 but an norm hdd i could see it been an pain
still takes 5-10 mins to do on an SSD thought
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Altarica
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Posted - 2011.02.19 08:17:00 -
[9]
Originally by: CCP Cascade We would really appreciate it if you elaborated a bit on your feedback. What do you dislike with the system, what suggestions do you have for improvement? We absolutely listen to it if you would just give it to us.
There are two things about this system that in my opinion are a step backward.
First the time taken to patch. With the old system of manual patches a 5mb patch would take about 2 mins to apply, with the new system that can easily be over 10 mins to apply the same patch, due to the number of times the repair tools verifies and checks the entire installation. It seems to me that you are running an aweful lot of checks that are (if the player keeps his client up to date) completely unnecessary.
Second in my experience 50% of the time the new system goes through all of its checks and then decides something is not right and goes off to download the full client, thus take 1) a whole lot more time and 2) chunks out of my monthly download limit.
Suggestion Rather than the repair tool starting as default and having it check the whole client can you not simply have some quick version check and if the installed version matches what the patch is expecting bypass all the checks and just start the patch procedure. If the version check comes back with an older client version then start the repair tool to discover what needs to be downloaded.
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Elrianmk2
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.02.21 13:43:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Altarica
Originally by: CCP Cascade We would really appreciate it if you elaborated a bit on your feedback. What do you dislike with the system, what suggestions do you have for improvement? We absolutely listen to it if you would just give it to us.
There are two things about this system that in my opinion are a step backward.
First the time taken to patch. With the old system of manual patches a 5mb patch would take about 2 mins to apply, with the new system that can easily be over 10 mins to apply the same patch, due to the number of times the repair tools verifies and checks the entire installation. It seems to me that you are running an aweful lot of checks that are (if the player keeps his client up to date) completely unnecessary.
Second in my experience 50% of the time the new system goes through all of its checks and then decides something is not right and goes off to download the full client, thus take 1) a whole lot more time and 2) chunks out of my monthly download limit.
Suggestion Rather than the repair tool starting as default and having it check the whole client can you not simply have some quick version check and if the installed version matches what the patch is expecting bypass all the checks and just start the patch procedure. If the version check comes back with an older client version then start the repair tool to discover what needs to be downloaded.
The drawback is there is no way to validate if the install is good unless it chesks all of the files in the binary set. The check doess not just check that the exe is right but all the associated DLL's etc associated with it, if it did not do this then you would be likely to see 'oddness' occuring after the tool said everythign was ok and that i suspect would nark off even more people. I believe you can still use the manual connection method (amended eve shortcut pointing to your Eve Singularigy installation) and that should stop what is irritating you. Granted i have no idea if that will be changed in the long term
Personally, i would rather use the tool and have it log everything so i can submit a complete bug report if i find anissue, the very least it does is tell the devs exactly what was going on with your system. Will check tonight if it it logs the autopatcher checks anywhere as Dev would love to get thier hands on them i suspect.
If it wasnt for bad luck, i wouldnt have any luck at all |
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention Middle of Nowhere
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Posted - 2011.02.21 14:27:00 -
[11]
Originally by: CCP Cascade
Originally by: Perramas I will not suck it up and use the repair tool, I will just stop giving you free testing. And I hope this thing stays on the test server because if it is going to be used on the production server my EVE playing days are finished.
We would really appreciate it if you elaborated a bit on your feedback. What do you dislike with the system, what suggestions do you have for improvement? We absolutely listen to it if you would just give it to us.
It's awfully unbearably unbelievably slow. Make a full file check an option, for standard operation simply read build number and patch based on that. --
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Altarica
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Posted - 2011.02.21 16:01:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Elrianmk2 The drawback is there is no way to validate if the install is good unless it chesks all of the files in the binary set.
The current manual patches do no checking at all (as far as I know) they just add / replace files in the install. A single "does this version match what is expected" check would therefore be a huge improvement in verification at the lowest time cost. If the version matches then just install patch, else run the repair tool and let it figure out whats wrong.
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Titas Agor
TITANS OF PEACE
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Posted - 2011.02.21 19:40:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Titas Agor on 21/02/2011 19:46:31 First time im commenting on this system and the new ways of patching because its just getting out of hand now. The usual OLD way of patching was easy, simple, and worked, ever heard of the phrase "if it aint broke, DONT fix it". Well it wasn't broken, and forcing people to use the sisi launcher tool you guys created few months back which doesn't work anyway, whenever i have tried to use the repair tool, i get red writing all over the damn thing that says error failed to repair please reinstall the client on 3 seperate machines and now that this is the only way to get on bloody test server now, i cant physically get on it now, i wont even bother now.
I understand CCP is wanting more people to get on the test server, and trying to find ways to make it easier, just code the damn thing better and incorporate it into the main TQ client, so its on the flash screen boot up like STO is, their system for the live server and their test server (tribble) is fantastic actually, its one click, and the client manually copies and patches to whatever their test server client version is. If it gets changed, the client automaticly re-patches or re-copies to the current trible server.
Everyone knows how to patch to the server manually, its written all over the forums, its not hard, you copy the eve folder to another folder, create the apropiate shortcut to launch to the test server AND THATS IT!!! your making it way to complicaited now and im sorry, its getting ******ed. You'll end up with less people rather then more if you keep this up, the new system simply doesn't work like you think it does. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels. Zymurgist |
Sparky12
Invictus Australis BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.02.23 11:31:00 -
[14]
The new patching system is terrible I have had a repair go badly at least 4 times wasting 5gb of my data I liked the old system of 10mb or 300mb if it was a big patch, I don't go on the test server because of the hassle of patching.
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2011.02.24 09:46:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Sturmwolke on 24/02/2011 09:46:57 Just a small note to the repair tool dev :
The cache function was long awaited, and it seems to be working as it should. Thanks.
One minor thing, program does not "Cancel" gracefully (as of v3.22) and seems to hang waiting for something when you do it while it's in the middle of a download (which got stuck as my internet line was congested at that time). The tool had to be terminated manually. In other words, it doesn't work quite well when your connection is congested or unstable.
Ideally, you would want to separate the download bit once it has done the initial checks and requested the missing blocks. No one wants to repeat the whole process all over again, yes, the caching helps enormously but you still had to repeat the basic index download (small annoyance) and the disk file checks (BIG annoyance).
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Amaroq Dricaldari
Amarr Universal Deathdealing Militia Fusion Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.25 02:45:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Amaroq Dricaldari on 25/02/2011 02:46:46 Edited by: Amaroq Dricaldari on 25/02/2011 02:46:09 I want a way to patch Singularity without it trying to replace my main EVE files or crashing my computer. Whenever I play EVE on the computer, it's fine, but as soon as I tried updating Singularity, it was trying to update the files in my main EVE Folde,r and when I tried canceling it, my computer Blue-Screened on me, where as the other times it just shut down for no reason when I tried to patch singularity. it was the most recent time today that it was trying to reploace the files in my main folder and that it Blue-Screened my computer. Oh, yeah, the downloader also freezes my computer. I WANT A FIX!
See this stupid thread (which has been up for at least an hour by now): http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1473528 -- As an Amarr Defector, I chose to become a Mercenary and Industrialist. I also have one goal in mind: Create a new age of peace and prosperity for all four empires. |
Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2011.02.25 03:42:00 -
[17]
@above poster Wait, you were clearly intelligent enough to post this. Sooo, you're basically saying you can't figure out how the Singularity SISI launcher works? |
Amaroq Dricaldari
Amarr Universal Deathdealing Militia Fusion Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.25 05:45:00 -
[18]
Look, I simply never looked at the inside of a Hard Drive before, alright? But I do know ALOT about computers. Stop stating the obvious, please, or I will start reporting your posts as trolling. I know how computers work, wether you like it or not. I bet you couldn't tell me how to make a MUCH faster computer by simply using a different material. Specifically because you need to know what material to use. I am not stupid, and I am not on of those annoying 6-year-old internet kids either. So you could at least do us all a favor by not treating me like one. -- As an Amarr Defector, I chose to become a Mercenary and Industrialist. I also have one goal in mind: Create a new age of peace and prosperity for all four empires. |
Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2011.02.25 06:49:00 -
[19]
@above poster Troll .. me? No sir, I'm the soul of a gentleman. I strongly resent your insinuation that I post to troll.
I was merely praising your attributes in the previous post and at the same time displaying my shocking skepticsm that you appear to be having some difficulty in figuring out the SISI launcher.
You do use the SISI launcher yes?
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Valcotera
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Posted - 2011.03.19 10:29:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Valcotera on 19/03/2011 10:31:37 Please do something about the SiSi patching. I'm really fed up with this repair tool. For the last two months or so each time I connect to Singularity I get a prompt telling me there is a new patch and asking me if I want to download it. (which itself is a silly question since it is not possible to play the game if the patch is not applied....anyway) Once the client has the patch downloaded, it ALWAYS runs the repair tool, ALWAYS!, no matter what. And worst, last time I patched it, after spending 2hours "repairing" sisi, I got the login screen but the the test server was full with 45 players and not accepting any new connections.
How come we moved from a nice and easy update process to this? This really ****es me off as I have to download 1.15Gb of data each time I want to connect to Singularity. This new process might look really nice on a white board during a meeting or when sending report to management at CCP but when it comes to customer experience it sucks.
Not sure how to elaborate more on this....
Are you testing the game or your customers addiction to the game?
Regards.
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Amaroq Dricaldari
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2011.03.19 13:17:00 -
[21]
I installed the latest Singularity Build, and guess what? I can't play the stupid game because there is no patch for it. -- Why do you observe the piece of dirt in your brother's eye but not notice the big piece of mud in your own? |
Shiganaru
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2011.03.20 06:25:00 -
[22]
Originally by: CCP Mandrake It also has multi-threaded download so that players with slow internet connections can download the patch data a bit faster.
I'm sorry to say this, but bandwidth will always be a limiting factor. "Multi-threading" will not improve download time in any way.
Originally by: CCP Mandrake
In the near future, i don't see this as being the main patching mechanism for TQ, it will be a supplement. Currently we build roughly 10+ patches every time we release a new build to TQ and that literally takes upto 12 hours to compile on our build cluster. Having this type of patching mechanism allows us to cut down that time to perhaps a few minutes by only building the last-to-latest patch and then using the "repair tool" patch for all older client versions.
So for now, because we have to have this thing tested, you will have to suck it up and use the reapir tool patch
Your last comment was uncalled for. This is honest feedback. This method of patching takes five to ten times longer than the old-patching mechanism, and is limited by factors outside of CCP's control. (Hard Drive Read/Write Speed, User Bandwidth, etc).
Suggestion: Stick to incremental patches; however, create an "updater" that will automatically download and install the incremental patches up to the latest release patch.
For those who have really old clients, create expansion-to-expansion patches, which takes a client, for example, from Dominion to Incursion 1.0 in one patch, then continue the incremental patches up to the latest release.
That's my 2 cents.
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Jacque Cruix
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Posted - 2011.03.20 08:12:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Shiganaru Your last comment was uncalled for.
Some players are too whiny for their own good. Other players are just too thin skinned.
Just my 2 cents.
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