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Infinitio Krystallos
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Posted - 2011.02.21 15:52:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Ardra Nashatra
Originally by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Can you please enlighten us ?
I believe what he's saying is he has a factory planet set up with only processors, the CC, and launchpads. (As the poster above mentioned) To elaborate a bit, he then gathers his materials from another planet where he is running an extraction operation, or the market, hauls them to this factory planet, imports them down, lets the processors do their thing, then exports the final product.
Wow. "You learn something new every day". Did an observation after the one ECU on the factory planet had quit, and indeed the Procesors were still running. Had no idea.
Thanks.
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Lain Umi
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Posted - 2011.02.21 16:37:00 -
[32]
how many BIFs do you guys typically have per planet? right now i use 1 ECU with 10 heads and 8 BIFs on 24 hour cycles harvesting one P0 per planet. is this a good setup? i find the planet is underproducing a little.
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Verkala Ven
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Posted - 2011.02.21 17:05:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Dorian Wylde The fact that you're doing p4 yourself means vertical integration. I suggest you look up the term before insulting someone else who is actually using it properly.
I'll take your word for it, but it's still irrelevant. Whether I'm extracting and processing to P1 before selling to someone who takes it and imports it, the resources have to move through the exact same colony flows as I'm using now.
Originally by: Dorian Wylde The 15 minute cycles are what is killing your production, and 15 minute cycles are caused by the 24 programs you're setting. Use longer programs, and you'll be fine.
I selected the 12/24h cycles on initial installation to hit my extraction targets. I did this not because I would really truly love an excuse to log on twice a day, but because anything shorter missed the targets - before depletion ever kicked in. I'll give it a shot - I'm currently missing targets on more than half my planets anyway, and disgusted enough with this whole change that a break wouldn't be a bad thing.
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2011.02.21 22:26:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Rathroku Aleock Edited by: Rathroku Aleock on 21/02/2011 02:07:07
Originally by: Inspiration Multiplayer?
Are you insinuating that this is a standard multiplayer mechanic? How about we add in a mechanic whereby i can randomly remove ISK from your wallet balance. Multiplayer.
This way we are competing for resources in the EVE environment. Your suggestion that simply remove ISK form my wallet as a comparison is ludicrous. Fact is, my ISK is mine, those resource on that planet are NOT yours alone. Get out of that ivory tower or start a solo game.
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Rathroku Aleock
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Posted - 2011.02.21 23:51:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Inspiration This way we are competing for resources in the EVE environment. Your suggestion that simply remove ISK form my wallet as a comparison is ludicrous. Fact is, my ISK is mine, those resource on that planet are NOT yours alone. Get out of that ivory tower or start a solo game.
I never claimed the resources on a planet were mine, I was simply ridiculing your ludicrous single word reply. You're a bit daft if you didn't pick that up.
Sorry for ****ting up the thread peoples.
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leuvenluxe
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Posted - 2011.02.22 17:46:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Inspiration
Originally by: Rathroku Aleock Edited by: Rathroku Aleock on 21/02/2011 02:07:07
Originally by: Inspiration Multiplayer?
Are you insinuating that this is a standard multiplayer mechanic? How about we add in a mechanic whereby i can randomly remove ISK from your wallet balance. Multiplayer.
This way we are competing for resources in the EVE environment. Your suggestion that simply remove ISK form my wallet as a comparison is ludicrous. Fact is, my ISK is mine, those resource on that planet are NOT yours alone. Get out of that ivory tower or start a solo game.
Exactly..."not yours" ... There should be a game mechanic that allows you to 'make it yours' feasibly... You can setup 24/7 gate camps at all gates of the system..but then that it not feasible for the return from the planet...
When 'competing for resources" is used, it implies actual 'competing' .. There is no 'competing' here... just sharing...
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Sneaky Neko
Caldari Deep Space Ventures
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Posted - 2011.02.22 18:04:00 -
[37]
Working as intended?
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leuvenluxe
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Posted - 2011.02.22 18:16:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Sneaky Neko Working as intended?
I'm sure it is... CCP have a production/demand range they want to keep this in.... It's a shame there's no mechanic to 'get an advantage' however...as there is with everything else in Eve... I guess if there was, it would end up the same as moon goo ...all the big alliances would have all of the good planets and solo players/small corps would have none.
I see the dilemma the devs have...
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Verkala Ven
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Posted - 2011.02.22 18:31:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Sneaky Neko Working as intended?
That's part of the question.
From what we've been told by CCP, no - it's not working as intended. They've said that overall extraction was not supposed to change much with the new system.
Unfortunately, it has for many of us. Dramatically. If there's something we can do to fix it, I'd love to hear it - "overall output won't change but you have to work harder for it" would be fine. But by everything anyone can seem to figure out there simply is nothing that can be done. Well, short of completely tearing up and rebuilding your colony once a week or so. And that's such a stupid idea I refuse to accept it as intended unless they come out and say it.
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Katja Norolyev
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Posted - 2011.02.22 20:53:00 -
[40]
Originally by: leuvenluxe
I regret the SP I put in PI... I wish I could get it back
If PI is currently working as intended, then: This.
As it stands, I almost feel chained to this horrible, underproducing new system (my time would be more valuable spent on running missions now) simply to prevent my 3-ish months of training from being a complete waste.
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Wicked SickX
Minmatar Six Kin Research
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Posted - 2011.02.23 10:21:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Wicked SickX on 23/02/2011 10:22:19 One big improvement CCP could make to PI would be to allow players to drag and move all their buildings on the planet (the same way you can drag and move extractor heads around).
With the current way things are, those doing PI are forced to decommission buildings and rebuild them periodically. Which is a severe waste of isk. It's illogical for CCP to design a system where you must build structures on a planet then constantly destroy them and rebuild them over and over again. It seems counterproductive, to say the least.
But like I said, an easy solution to all of this would be to allow players to drag and move ALL Planetary Interaction buildings (the same way you can move extractor heads). Then there wouldn't be so much waste.
Also, Planetary Command Centers should be allowed to repack and relaunch to the customs office. That's also another wasteful part of the whole system.
Other than those complaints though, I am pretty content overall with PI the way it is today.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.02.23 12:02:00 -
[42]
Quote:
Working as intended? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's part of the question.
From what we've been told by CCP, no - it's not working as intended. They've said that overall extraction was not supposed to change much with the new system.
CCP implemented:
- diminishing returns. The parts of EvE without diminishing returns suck. Now there's one less of them.
- competition. Once Dust is out then you can remove the intruders jumping in your carefully planned equilibrium and sucking all for themselves.
- tradeoff. In order to keep going, you either settle for a lower mining rate (sucks the planet less dry), for a lower yield rate (once it's sucked dry) or for spending ISK to keep the rate up (moving factories etc). Before it was just a game of chimpanzes clicking long enough.
There's no free spoon, no insured income any more.
To the guy who asked why prices tank:
- Lowered entry barriers and pi** factor means many more are doing PI on autopilot (ie 4 day cycles)
- Many more PI-ers = many more idiots seeing free minerals and crashing the markets.
- Many more idiots = *** They don't see how moving stuff etc. has costs. *** They don't see whether it's better to just buy the P1 instead of adding to the glut. *** They don't plan ahead. Day zero the mining rates were stellar? Prices tank HARD. After a long while they'll wake up and noticed "used planets" yield a lot less. After a further long while they'll realize that and - with big inertia - will react by making the market go up again. IF and only IF the reduction in quantity extracted < increase in global quantity extracted due to more PI-ers ofc.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Verkala Ven
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Posted - 2011.02.23 17:18:00 -
[43]
Q: How can you tell someone is trolling a PI thread? A: They mention Dust.
This is inane. Dust is years away, if it ever manages to happen at all. Implementing a system now which relies on Dust to function would be like making Incursions unbeatable without Tech 5 ships. I may think the PI changes are pretty idiotic, but anyone stupid enough to do that wouldn't be able to stop drooling on themselves long enough to put pants on in the morning.
As to the rest, you missed the entire point. Nobody has a problem with diminishing returns, AS LONG AS YOU CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. With the current system, you simply can't - with the sole exception of tearing up your entire colony repeatedly, which is not only seriously expensive but also so incredibly horrible with the current interface that it's barely a step above the droolers.
And, once more, CCP has said that total extraction shouldn't change much. That's the one concrete thing we actually have to go on here. Not "Dust will fix it" or "It's supposed to diminish" or "Recreating 34 routes is fun enough that we want you to do it sixty times a week". So all the "working as intended" fanboy crap denies what they have actually SAID about the system.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.23 17:25:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Verkala Ven
And, once more, CCP has said that total extraction shouldn't change much.
I have heard this a few times, could you maybe provide a reference for it? I am of course not saying I don't believe they said it, I would just like to read the entire statement.
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Verkala Ven
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Posted - 2011.02.23 21:14:00 -
[45]
Originally by: CCP Tuxford ah well, like I said the plan wasn't really to **** with the balance of things so lets give the game designers some time to refine the numbers.
Linkage
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.02.23 22:03:00 -
[46]
Quote:
This is inane. Dust is years away, if it ever manages to happen at all. Implementing a system now which relies on Dust to function would be like making Incursions unbeatable without Tech 5 ships
What if at CCP they believe in the same things they say? It's not my fault if THEY think Dust is meant to interact with PI and THEY believe it'll be here before 5 years.
Quote:
As to the rest, you missed the entire point. Nobody has a problem with diminishing returns, AS LONG AS YOU CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT
What'd be the point of diminishing returns if you could un-diminish them?
Quote:
And, once more, CCP has said that total extraction shouldn't change much.
Prices are tanking, volumes are stabilizing therefore there's more stuff being reliably extracted. As cross check, ice POS fuels are rising, which suggests PI POS fuels are enough to make POSes cheap enough again. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Verkala Ven
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Posted - 2011.02.23 23:57:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha What if at CCP they believe in the same things they say? It's not my fault if THEY think Dust is meant to interact with PI and THEY believe it'll be here before 5 years.
No. Nice try, but no. Take a look at marketing for WoD, Incarna, Dust, anything CCP does. They do not think Dust will launch in the next year, and I'd honestly be surprised if they expect it in the next two.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha What'd be the point of diminishing returns if you could un-diminish them?
Isn't that the entire point of the game? To take a system which limits your achievement and try to achieve more? You can think that too many extractors should behave the same as too many nanofibers, but that's entirely your opinion, and not backed up by anything CCP has said.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Prices are tanking, volumes are stabilizing therefore there's more stuff being reliably extracted. As cross check, ice POS fuels are rising, which suggests PI POS fuels are enough to make POSes cheap enough again.
This is not the context of what they were saying.
Tuxford's response was to an individual who was having problems meeting previous production targets. His response was to that individual, and concerned individual production rates.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2011.02.24 00:38:00 -
[48]
Reading this thread I _REALLY_ want to start griefing PI'ers in lowsec, putting CC's on good planets and running super-short cycles on good hotspots.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.02.24 20:32:00 -
[49]
Quote:
No. Nice try, but no. Take a look at marketing for WoD, Incarna, Dust, anything CCP does. They do not think Dust will launch in the next year, and I'd honestly be surprised if they expect it in the next two.
Do you think that YOU or me actually have any relevance on what CCP thinks, does and states? As long as they are invested in the Dust wagon they just do what they want, i.e. decide that Dust is the recipe for their success or anything.
Quote:
Isn't that the entire point of the game? To take a system which limits your achievement and try to achieve more? You can think that too many extractors should behave the same as too many nanofibers, but that's entirely your opinion, and not backed up by anything CCP has said
The entire point of the game is to figure out competitive ways to prevail, within the hardcoded rules / diminishing returns. Break diminishing returns? Oh yes, you can! But with CCP's suggested way ... that is to pay more and get more alts => more subs.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Verkala Ven
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Posted - 2011.02.24 21:03:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Do you think that YOU or me actually have any relevance on what CCP thinks, does and states? As long as they are invested in the Dust wagon they just do what they want, i.e. decide that Dust is the recipe for their success or anything.
I don't always agree with CCP's choices - they do make mistakes, are often overly optimistic with their designs, and their approach to testing is often an embarrassment to the software profession.
But I don't think they're completely nuts. There's absolutely no way Dust is releasing this year, and early release of mechanics which would rely on Dust in order to function is so monumentally stupid I have to believe that even CCP knows better.
Done feeding the troll now.
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Lain Umi
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Posted - 2011.02.24 22:35:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Lain Umi on 24/02/2011 22:35:08 current PI is good brah. give it some thought, settle for a lower profit then before, and enjoy. with 10 days of training and basic knowledge, you can pay for 2 PLEX once u cash in your PI goods at the end of the month. if you got the best skills, you can easily make a bill. thats a pretty good deal.
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