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Binarii
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Posted - 2011.02.21 19:48:00 -
[1]
Being new to Planetary Interaction, I have this as my first test setup:
Ice planet harvesting liquids to Water. Gas planet harvesting ionic solutions to Electrolytes. Barren planet with factories producing Coolant.
I just noticed that if I sell the Water and Electrolytes directly, it pays more than the Coolant they produce. Am I missing something?
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AS LordASB
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Posted - 2011.02.21 20:05:00 -
[2]
someome has made a nice spreadsheet for PI
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ar_YTOcXpvb9dGFIdHJlb0VmYXBORWRrcXFkeHNjcWc&hl=en#gid=10
it shows how much its selling for in an area of eve but also what it should be selling for to make a profit.
some fokes will be selling off stocks at less than cost just to try and undercut someone else which is undercutting someone else... and thus the price drops.
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Fulbert
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.02.21 21:11:00 -
[3]
You miss the whole "mineral/moon goo/planet resources i mine are free" problem. People manufacture things w/o knowing the opportunity cost of what they are manufacturing. Others are simply ignoring it for logistic reasons (Extracting 2 P1 and manufacturing one P2 one the same planet -> less hauling -> more ISK per hour). -------------------------------- Fulbert. Miner - Industrialist |
tpwh21
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Posted - 2011.02.21 22:31:00 -
[4]
i am not sure of this either. Here are a few possible reasons. By rights P2 ahould cost a lot more than their p1 components - ie there should be significant profit - as there is the lost resources you could have harvested with the grid/cpu you used to make the p2. Firstly - I think hauling is definitely a factor. Secondly - think people go to market to buy p1 to combine with those they already have to make p2/p3/p4 - but of that i am not sure. thirdly - as you cannot reprocess back down again - you have more potential buyers for p1 rather than p2. forthly - lots of P2/P3 are massively stockpiled - due to cpp's borked introduction of PI - therefore some of them trade at far under their component price - as no one sensible actually makes them yet.
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Kaztor Troy
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Posted - 2011.02.21 23:37:00 -
[5]
Originally by: tpwh21 Secondly - think people go to market to buy p1 to combine with those they already have to make p2/p3/p4 - but of that i am not sure.
I can confirm this for you
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Portaprince
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Posted - 2011.02.22 02:53:00 -
[6]
Yes you can make money, good money, buying materials and selling the refined commodities. In fact I can prove it and have/am still working on the website to do it. www.planetarytradegoods.com remember its been up two days so there is still lots left to do. but more is coming soon, I will have another build out this evening with more instructions and information.
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leuvenluxe
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Posted - 2011.02.22 04:42:00 -
[7]
But the fact still remains...some commodities are worth less combined....why would anyone in their right minds continue to combine them?? In a free market, logical people would stop producing, making availability drop, and demand spike...which would make combined production profitable again...
If I had 5 apples that sold for $1 each... and I knew how to make an apple pie that required 5 apples and sold for $4 ... I would ALWAYS sell the apples to make that extra $1..Why would anyone make the apple pie???
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.02.22 05:35:00 -
[8]
You really need to hang out on MD.
The running theory is that most of the S&I guys are convinced that minerals mined by oneself are free, and doing your own production is also free.
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Xearal
Minmatar SOL Industries Black Thorne Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.22 06:34:00 -
[9]
There's another factor you're not entering in your equation: Distance to Jita.
The best extraction is done in null sec, far away from empire space. this means Jump Freighters to move your stuff to the market. Jump freighters cost fuel per jump, and have a maximum amount they can carry, so there's a fuel cost / m3. Add this into it, and water/electrolytes become much more expensive to move and sell than coolant, because it takes up so much less volume than the other 2. So even if the combined product might be cheaper, the end result for someone in null to make coolant is more profit than when he makes/moves the components of it.
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Cyniac
Gallente Twilight Star Rangers
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Posted - 2011.02.22 08:51:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Xearal
So even if the combined product might be cheaper, the end result for someone in null to make coolant is more profit than when he makes/moves the components of it.
Agreed - this is the rational reason why sometimes P2 materials are cheaper than the combination of the P1 - logistics.
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Lain Umi
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Posted - 2011.02.22 10:02:00 -
[11]
from my experience so far, selling P1 would be the most profitable but id pretty much have to haul every day. distance from jita being 7-11 jumps, plus the trip back. it wouldnt pay off.
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Aphrodite Skripalle
Galactic Defence Consortium
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Posted - 2011.02.22 10:50:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Xearal There's another factor you're not entering in your equation: Distance to Jita.
The best extraction is done in null sec, far away from empire space. this means Jump Freighters to move your stuff to the market. Jump freighters cost fuel per jump, and have a maximum amount they can carry, so there's a fuel cost / m3. Add this into it, and water/electrolytes become much more expensive to move and sell than coolant, because it takes up so much less volume than the other 2. So even if the combined product might be cheaper, the end result for someone in null to make coolant is more profit than when he makes/moves the components of it.
^This. Also add the time you need. In same time you jump around with very expensive jump freighter you can do something with less risk and better income.
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tpwh21
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Posted - 2011.02.22 11:34:00 -
[13]
I make p2 - mainly and only bother to sell excess of P0/p1 that has built up if i have free hauling space. The reason in simple. I move my PI goods through two WH to get it to market. That means every cargo is risking a gank on each wh. plus loss of clone plus loss of hauler. that means if i have to do 1/4 the hauls - i am a) saving hassle and time. b) probably saving lots of ganks. But i still think player stockpiles of previously sold NPC goods may have a more major effect on the relevant pricing. also for me the lower volatility of p2 prices is quite important....
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Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.02.22 11:39:00 -
[14]
I always try to refine/produce high level stuff so that I don't need to hault that much.
a) I'm lazy b) less risk of getting blow up (less trips) c) i'm not INTO making ISK that much...i prefer enjoying the game without exel d) less sell orders due materials going into a single product 2>1, 3>1 and so on.
Originally by: CCP Shadow Dr. Sheepbringer -- It's not that kind of horn.
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Ami Quintero
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Posted - 2011.02.22 14:32:00 -
[15]
PI reactions are essentially worthless. Sure, there's a theoretical value - you use some grid, some CPU, maybe a whole planet slot if you're using a factory planet...
But because you can do it AFK in hisec with next to no SP investment you're not going to get a systematic, significant, and sustainable profit from it.
Sure, there are fluctuations. I've made a fair bit of cash watching a P2 or P3 rocket away from its components and dipping in with a factory planet to close the gap. Prices move fast, though, because of how you can reconfigure factory planets to make any P2 or P3 easily. There are a lot of people with trading alts + factory planets one jump from jita. This means that as soon as the gap opens, people rush to buy the components and overproduce leading to a collapse in the margin.
Generally though, the reduction in hauling volume is worth more than the grid/cpu you spend processing - particularly for p0->p1->p2, and especially if you're extracting outside of hisec.
The MD trolls complaining about the "minerals are free" attitude really need to sit down and learn what opportunity cost actually means.
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.02.23 03:04:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ami Quintero The MD trolls complaining about the "minerals are free" attitude really need to sit down and learn what opportunity cost actually means.
Shh, you're not supposed to tell them I'm just trolling.
For the record, I'm familiar with opportunity cost, including JF costs, etc etc. It's just more fun to poke the occasional fun at a forum that has at least a few people who really can't quite figure out why turning 200k ISK in trit into 100k ISK in shuttles (that you end up selling at the same station you built them at) isn't always the best route.
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Portaprince
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.02.23 16:28:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Portaprince on 23/02/2011 16:28:08
Originally by: leuvenluxe But the fact still remains...some commodities are worth less combined....why would anyone in their right minds continue to combine them?? In a free market, logical people would stop producing, making availability drop, and demand spike...which would make combined production profitable again...
If I had 5 apples that sold for $1 each... and I knew how to make an apple pie that required 5 apples and sold for $4 ... I would ALWAYS sell the apples to make that extra $1..Why would anyone make the apple pie???
Because the whole pie is worth $4, but if I divide it into 6 slices and sell those for $1 each, I make $6. Impatient people like me will buy it cause its ready to go, each person does what they are best at, you produce apples other person makes pies, both make profit and both have jobs
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leuvenluxe
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Posted - 2011.02.24 15:16:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Portaprince Edited by: Portaprince on 23/02/2011 16:28:08
Originally by: leuvenluxe But the fact still remains...some commodities are worth less combined....why would anyone in their right minds continue to combine them?? In a free market, logical people would stop producing, making availability drop, and demand spike...which would make combined production profitable again...
If I had 5 apples that sold for $1 each... and I knew how to make an apple pie that required 5 apples and sold for $4 ... I would ALWAYS sell the apples to make that extra $1..Why would anyone make the apple pie???
Because the whole pie is worth $4, but if I divide it into 6 slices and sell those for $1 each, I make $6. Impatient people like me will buy it cause its ready to go, each person does what they are best at, you produce apples other person makes pies, both make profit and both have jobs
You're not making any sense... You can't split up the commodities! And it's a fact that some are selling for less than their parts.. So there is zero incentive from a profit perspective to combine them.... only incentive is hauling less. That pie cannot be split up into pieces, your analogy is illogical.
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