Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
shrimp mcCoward
|
Posted - 2011.02.23 14:53:00 -
[1]
I'm having some issues with this ship...
I'm using what in my eyes is a pretty straight forward solo fit to run around going pie on anything frig sized I can catch.. But the multifreqs does absolutely nothing at their optimals, and scorch got tracking penalties (even though I think the tracking is the issue on the multi's aswell?)
I hunt frigs so I just burn straight to scramble range, and orbit 'em at 1500 w/ some tweaking as the fight goes,
Or maybe my fit is terribad?
[Crusader, protato] Internal Force Field Array I Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer Adaptive Nano Plating II Heat Sink II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Gatling Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S Gatling Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S Gatling Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S Gatling Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
Small Energy Burst Aerator I Small Energy Collision Accelerator I
|
Jaxley
The Tuskers
|
Posted - 2011.02.23 16:14:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Jaxley on 23/02/2011 16:16:41
If you're mainly going to hunt in lowsec, I'd go with an afterburner; doubly so if you're going in close.
Personally, I see absolutely no point in fitting a MWD and then fighting within scrambler range. Your range control is limited without a web already, no need to gimp it even further.
Coreli rep isn't really worth it, but whatever floats your boat.
With this setup, I tend to start the fight with Scorch and try to orbit out of neut and nos range (tracking is not an issue out there, even less with inty V). Overheated AB can keep you there when webbed, if not just insta-switch to multifreq.
-----
|
Murq
The Priesthood The 0rphanage
|
Posted - 2011.02.23 16:40:00 -
[3]
I don't see him mentioning lowsec anywhere.
Also, an AB on a frig with 2 mids is just mthrfkinglulz.
Dude, just switch to a Slicer and call it a day. You'll never look back. Drop a little speed, get a long range point; orbit out @ 20k and burn them with scorch. Win.
|
Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
|
Posted - 2011.02.23 17:20:00 -
[4]
You made what I call a Hybrid fit. Basically, you can fit a Sader in three ways:
1. Tackler (MWD, long range point, speed and range/tracking mods). You stay out of scramble range. 2. Dogfighter (AB, 2pt scram, tanking and damage mods). You fight inside scramble range. 3. Hybrid Tackler/Dogfighter (MWD, 2pt scram, speed/tank mods). You fight inside scramble range.
If you go with the Hybrid setup as you did, you target selection will be very small. Realistically, you will only be able to engage pure tackle inties. You'll lose to combat inties and combat frigs and will struggle against many vessels that either a Tackler or Dogfighter can engage.
You tactics indicate that you want to fly it like a Dogfighter, so if I were you I would fit it like one. An AB is fast enough for you to move back to the gate in all but the larger and more dedicated camps in 0.0. Camps with sling bubbles is what you need to watch out for in 0.0 with an AB Sader. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
tagen young
Caldari The Night Witch
|
Posted - 2011.02.23 17:30:00 -
[5]
to be honest I wouldnt worry too much about catching people. 1v1 frigate fights tend to happen by mutual agreement if both parties have a clue.
Sure a MWD will allow you to close down on newbies belt ratting if thats what you are going for.
The massive problem with two mid frigates is always preventing the target escaping. You may be able to beat someone, but not actually kill them.
|
Mara Abraham
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:09:00 -
[6]
Greetings:
When I hunt frigates in a crusader, I find a disruptor, mwd, and scorch are your friends. Fly outside their scram/web range, and melt them.
Thank you.
|
Jaxley
The Tuskers
|
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:32:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Jaxley on 23/02/2011 18:32:50
Originally by: Murq I don't see him mentioning lowsec anywhere.
Also, an AB on a frig with 2 mids is just mthrfkinglulz
Didn't see him mention nulsec either, hence my "If".
MWD loses much of its viability in lowsec, so AB is a much better option in terms of dealing with the very common AB/scram/web setup on most frig sized ships.
-----
|
shrimp mcCoward
|
Posted - 2011.02.24 08:08:00 -
[8]
Sorry, yes indeed low-sec.
I slapped a AF on it, and it seems to help out better. Thanks :))
|
Mutnin
Amarr Mutineers
|
Posted - 2011.02.24 09:51:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Mutnin on 24/02/2011 09:55:41
The only way I really see the Crusader as being useful is if you set it up to stay out of scram range. I set mine up much like a Navy Slicer, meaning fit for max range with the biggest small lasers and no tank. I really don't like a ceptor, with a AB, that can't fit dual prop. Might as well just fly an AF at that point IMO.
Mine hits out to around 16km optimal and about 18 with fall off (which is useless with lasers of course). The biggest problem is that it's likely better to just fly the Slicer instead but the Sader does get the better tracking which helps against other frigs.
The biggest problem with this set up, is if fighting other frigs, you have to be careful of any dual prop fits or MWD fits that might be scram fitted. Best to just Go after other AB fit ships or stuff you can out range or that can't track you.
|
shrimp mcCoward
|
Posted - 2011.02.24 10:57:00 -
[10]
Well Mutnin, I would also preffered an AF, but since I cant use rockets and really don't intend to train for them, and the Retribution (lol 1 mid ) is a retribution.. I'm stuck with 'sader. Slicers would be fun except they cost twice as much and I lose them in a frightening rate..
|
|
Murq
The Priesthood The 0rphanage
|
Posted - 2011.02.24 14:10:00 -
[11]
Originally by: shrimp mcCoward Well Mutnin, I would also preffered an AF, but since I cant use rockets and really don't intend to train for them, and the Retribution (lol 1 mid ) is a retribution.. I'm stuck with 'sader. Slicers would be fun except they cost twice as much and I lose them in a frightening rate..
How do you lose them? You orbit @ 20km and shoot in optimal.. nothing can track you. They're an ultimate Dram killer... Overheated webs can't reach you...
Stay away from huginn/rapiers and you should be good. You'll dust a hyena.
|
Vixisti
Percussive Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2011.02.24 18:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Murq
How do you lose them? You orbit @ 20km and shoot in optimal.. nothing can track you. They're an ultimate Dram killer... Overheated webs can't reach you...
Stay away from huginn/rapiers and you should be good. You'll dust a hyena.
Almost all medium autocannon ships with TE's can track you (so that means pretty much all of them) Dramiels will catch you very easily as slicers are slow and once they do, you're dead.
I used to fly a sader all the time but these days with faction frigate boosts it's pretty much redundant as it can't easily be tanked and long range fit optimals are disturbingly close to overheated web scram range.
|
Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
|
Posted - 2011.02.24 20:24:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Mutnin The only way I really see the Crusader as being useful is if you set it up to stay out of scram range. I set mine up much like a Navy Slicer, meaning fit for max range with the biggest small lasers and no tank. I really don't like a ceptor, with a AB, that can't fit dual prop. Might as well just fly an AF at that point IMO.
Just try a tanked AB Sader for a change and find out what it can do. It has the firepower of a Retribution, can apply firepower from the edge of web range if it needs too, is as fast with an AB as many cruisers are with MWD and his a sig much smaller than an AF.
I've tried to MWD Sader, and its not just that useful in low-sec since its target range is rather limited, is in danger of capping out, tends to die instantly if scrammed and has no real ability to hold its target in place. If I want to tackle, I prefer Malediction instead.
Oh, if you fight an AB frig against with an MWD Sader and you just orbit, expect most shots to miss unless he flies straight at you. Tracking simply isn't good enough.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Murq
The Priesthood The 0rphanage
|
Posted - 2011.02.24 21:08:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Murq on 24/02/2011 21:08:14
Originally by: Vixisti
Dramiels will catch you very easily as slicers are slow and once they do, you're dead.
You obviously haven't tested this.
|
Vixisti
Percussive Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2011.02.24 22:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Murq Edited by: Murq on 24/02/2011 21:08:14
Originally by: Vixisti
Dramiels will catch you very easily as slicers are slow and once they do, you're dead.
You obviously haven't tested this.
Drams are almost twice as fast so catching isn't an issue, once caught how do you propose that the slicer hit an AB ing dram at close range?
BTW I've tested almost every permutation of frigs v frigs and a slicer/dram matchup is a win for the Dramiel given equal skilled pilots and non specific fits.
|
Mutnin
Amarr Mutineers
|
Posted - 2011.02.24 23:12:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Mutnin The only way I really see the Crusader as being useful is if you set it up to stay out of scram range. I set mine up much like a Navy Slicer, meaning fit for max range with the biggest small lasers and no tank. I really don't like a ceptor, with a AB, that can't fit dual prop. Might as well just fly an AF at that point IMO.
Just try a tanked AB Sader for a change and find out what it can do. It has the firepower of a Retribution, can apply firepower from the edge of web range if it needs too, is as fast with an AB as many cruisers are with MWD and his a sig much smaller than an AF.
I've tried to MWD Sader, and its not just that useful in low-sec since its target range is rather limited, is in danger of capping out, tends to die instantly if scrammed and has no real ability to hold its target in place. If I want to tackle, I prefer Malediction instead.
Oh, if you fight an AB frig against with an MWD Sader and you just orbit, expect most shots to miss unless he flies straight at you. Tracking simply isn't good enough.
For a AB fit I'd rather go with the Malediction because I have a pretty nasty fit for it, that uses a sm repper, tracking disruptor and can pretty much be a major pita for just about any turret ship. It's biggest draw back, is even with the rocket buff it's DPS is pretty horrible.
On my Sader fit I dual rig it for optimal range and use two TE's and I can come pretty close to perma running everything. Two nights ago I tacked a Mega in a CA with my Sader and took him to half armor before he decided to start using a smart bomb on me.. which almost killed me because I was in close using Multi specs for max damage.
I was a bit surprised by going from no damage to almost structure in about 2 seconds, so I burned out of range and he was able to warp away. I had him tackled for probably 8-10 mins and never once came close to capping out.
|
waruiushiro
Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2011.02.25 02:29:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Mutnin The only way I really see the Crusader as being useful is if you set it up to stay out of scram range. I set mine up much like a Navy Slicer, meaning fit for max range with the biggest small lasers and no tank. I really don't like a ceptor, with a AB, that can't fit dual prop. Might as well just fly an AF at that point IMO.
Just try a tanked AB Sader for a change and find out what it can do. It has the firepower of a Retribution, can apply firepower from the edge of web range if it needs too, is as fast with an AB as many cruisers are with MWD and his a sig much smaller than an AF.
I've tried to MWD Sader, and its not just that useful in low-sec since its target range is rather limited, is in danger of capping out, tends to die instantly if scrammed and has no real ability to hold its target in place. If I want to tackle, I prefer Malediction instead.
Oh, if you fight an AB frig against with an MWD Sader and you just orbit, expect most shots to miss unless he flies straight at you. Tracking simply isn't good enough.
Merdaneth's right. AB Crusader can apply its DPS extraordinarily well and has a very good range of killable frigates. I tested it with another account on SiSi for an extended period, and could reliably kill Ishkurs with it once I got practiced with the orbits and overloading.
AFs are ofc more powerful, but any AF will engage a Crusader within scram range and not know what it's getting into.
An MWD-fit kiting crusader is just a sad, terrible Slicer. Pre-boost they were good in the hands of experts, but now there's just no effing point.
|
Aquana Abyss
|
Posted - 2011.02.25 04:53:00 -
[18]
use T2 weapon rigs - they are only like 5-10 mil a pop for another 10% DPS.
|
Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
|
Posted - 2011.02.26 12:48:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Mutnin
I was a bit surprised by going from no damage to almost structure in about 2 seconds, so I burned out of range and he was able to warp away. I had him tackled for probably 8-10 mins and never once came close to capping out.
That was because you weren't using your MWD. Which you need to if you want to stay at the range you specified and specifically fit your Sader for. Instead you were slow-boating at close range using multifreq, which was not what your fit is intended for.
Incidentally, if you had been in a AB Sader, that Mega would be dead now.
If you fit scorch, a (non-faction) MWD, a t2 disruptor and no cap mods you'll be dry in 2 minutes or so if your run everything. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
|
Posted - 2011.02.27 15:29:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Vixisti ..BTW I've tested almost every permutation of frigs v frigs and a slicer/dram matchup is a win for the Dramiel given equal skilled pilots and non specific fits.
Define "non specific". The kiting Slicer dies to Dramiel sure enough, but a skirmish fit using DLP and metastasis rigs tracks just fine.
Originally by: waruiushiro ..An MWD-fit kiting crusader is just a sad, terrible Slicer. Pre-boost they were good in the hands of experts, but now there's just no effing point.
Yeah, the 13km kiting Crusader died with scrambler change and introduction of improved Slicer. Still see them around but their target pool has been cut down a lot.
|
|
Arianna Satellizer
|
Posted - 2011.02.28 10:44:00 -
[21]
long ranger sader manual approach orbit at 18km manually maintain distance dead enemy frigate
|
Mutnin
Amarr Mutineers
|
Posted - 2011.02.28 11:22:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Mutnin on 28/02/2011 11:23:57
Originally by: Merdaneth
That was because you weren't using your MWD. Which you need to if you want to stay at the range you specified and specifically fit your Sader for. Instead you were slow-boating at close range using multifreq, which was not what your fit is intended for.
Incidentally, if you had been in a AB Sader, that Mega would be dead now.
If you fit scorch, a (non-faction) MWD, a t2 disruptor and no cap mods you'll be dry in 2 minutes or so if your run everything.
Actually, I burned the MWD quite a bit at the start and I was at range in the beginning, because I was dealing with his drones. An AB fitted ship would have most likely had to run off because of the light drones.
I also pair my MWD fit up with a stealth bomber as a dual role set up using it for both tackle and anti-frig support while running FW missions. Meaning the MWD is far more useful than an AB would be.
Anyway, I'm not saying an AB fit has no uses, but with the sader having only 2 mids, any frig that had a web is going to be a major issue with a AB fit that doesn't have room to fit a web.
|
Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
|
Posted - 2011.02.28 17:51:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mutnin
Actually, I burned the MWD quite a bit at the start and I was at range in the beginning, because I was dealing with his drones. An AB fitted ship would have most likely had to run off because of the light drones.
Why? Its not like you can't shoot the drones. I think you should try it a couple of times, broaden your PvP horizon as it were instead of just relying what you know works.
Originally by: Mutnin Anyway, I'm not saying an AB fit has no uses, but with the sader having only 2 mids, any frig that had a web is going to be a major issue with a AB fit that doesn't have room to fit a web.
Once again, I'm saying: try it. I haven't had any problems killing frigates with webs. I have no idea why it should be a problem. A Sader can perform put out good dps up to 10km without problem.
In fact, you'll be able to engage some Thrashers (all artillery thrashers and a fair number of 200mm AC thrashers too) *if you know what you are doing*. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Liang Nuren
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 17:53:00 -
[24]
I fly an AB Crusader, and I've got ~50 kills (no losses) with it I guess. Probably the most stupid thing I've done with it was try to solo a Myrm. I survived, but only barely.
Evemail me if you want the fit - I don't guarantee to check the forums and remember to post it for you.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
|
Liang Nuren
|
Posted - 2011.03.02 05:59:00 -
[25]
I got quite a few evemails... so I figure I should post it here
Crusader 4x DLP II AB II, Scram II Centii C-Type SAR, ANP II, DC II, OD II Energy Burst, Energy Collision
Probably not the best fit, but its worked for a while and I haven't lost it even when I probably should have.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
|
NinjaSpud
|
Posted - 2011.03.02 16:00:00 -
[26]
I Love flying cursaders. But you need to use what advantage you're given. 1st, don't AB. Interceptors get a bonus to sig using MWD. take advantage of that. Crusaders are one of the fasest ships in the game. Your speed is your tank, so drop the Rep.
This is my old fit, it's tried and tested, and found to be good.
Inertial Stab II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II (note, its ok to drop a heat sink for another stab or injector for faster speed) Overdrive InjectorII
1mn MWD II Warp Scrm II (I always get confused, its the scram that has the 24km range right?...use the long point)
Medium Pulse Lasers II Schorch S (its actually the largest small pules) Medium Pulse Lasers II Schorch S Medium Pulse Lasers II Schorch S Medium Pulse Lasers II Schorch S
RIGS: Your descression, use speed mods, use dmg mods, whatever you can fit and want a bonus
Keep them pointed and orbit at abotu 15k-20k. You shouldn't have a problem reaching top speeds and hitting them at that range. You will have an issue vs drones and other fast frigs, but anything bigger then a destroyer won't be able to even hit you.
I used speed rigs, and was able to get my crusader up past 5,000m/s. The scorch will ensure good dps at a safe range.
|
TaluxA
|
Posted - 2011.03.02 16:31:00 -
[27]
Wouldn't you be better off flying a malediction for fleet tackle?
Also I'm fairly sure that medium guns + tracking enhancers will hit you at least a bit at around 20km, especially if the ship is burning reasonably fast and reducing transversal (having done that to quite a few ceptors in a rupture for example). At least fit a damage control so you stay alive long enough for a bigger ship to get point.
As far as solo fits go stuff that's similar to Liang's one are actually a lot better than I thought, although that's my experience from fighting against them rather than flying them.
|
Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
|
Posted - 2011.03.02 17:28:00 -
[28]
Originally by: NinjaSpud I Love flying cursaders. This is my old fit, it's tried and tested, and found to be good.
Inertial Stab II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II (note, its ok to drop a heat sink for another stab or injector for faster speed) Overdrive InjectorII
1mn MWD II Warp Scrm II (I always get confused, its the scram that has the 24km range right?...use the long point)
4x Medium Pulse Lasers II Schorch S
I don't know in what universe you flew this Crusader, but certainly not in EVE.
Your fit uses 180/125 CPU (144% of max) Your fit uses 63.2/50 Grid (126% of max)
I'm have no problem with hypothetical Crusader pilots trying to contribute to the thread, but please check your numbers before you post something.
You 'tried and tested' this fit how often? ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
|
Posted - 2011.03.02 17:39:00 -
[29]
I use the found the following fit most generally useful:
High: 4x Dual Light Pulse (Navy MF and Scorch) Mid: Cold Gas AB, J5 Scram Low: Heat Sink II, Adaptive Nano Plating II, Small Armor Repairer II, Emergency Damage Control Rigs: Small Energy Burst Aerator I, Small Energy Collision Accelerator I
Upgrade to more expensive stuff if you like, the basic idea will remain the same. It has superior firepower in comparison to a fit like Liang's as I find that I need extra firepower more frequently than extra speed.
I have tried many variations of Crusader, but this remained the most cost-effective option for me with the widest possible engagement range (the number of other ships you are able to beat). A wide engagement range is important to me as it reduces the time I need to spend in looking for a suitable target. Coupled with good ability to escape blobs and the ability to repair damage between engagements ensures I get maximum PvP out of my time. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Liang Nuren
|
Posted - 2011.03.02 18:29:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Upgrade to more expensive stuff if you like, the basic idea will remain the same. It has superior firepower in comparison to a fit like Liang's as I find that I need extra firepower more frequently than extra speed.
Yeah, I can buy that. I'm cheap though and those damage controls aren't. At least, not in the fitting I was looking at. What do you think of a T2 dmg rig and a polycarb or something?
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |