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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Sword Knight
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Posted - 2011.02.25 17:01:00 -
[1]
Ok I advise on what to train for because im split, on a PvE lvl4 mission ship for long range.
I already have an alt with a Pal and Pulse lasers for short range.
So what would be best? a Vargur or a Nightmare?
Both will be shield tanks, with the Beam Lasers or Artillery Cannons for long range.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2011.02.25 17:04:00 -
[2]
Both. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
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Posted - 2011.02.25 17:07:00 -
[3]
An ibis
and poasting in the correct forum too
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Cintas
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Posted - 2011.02.25 17:10:00 -
[4]
Or just keep your pally and fit beams? Oh wait, to obvious..
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Josefius
Gallente JOKAS Industries Matari Legion
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Posted - 2011.02.25 17:19:00 -
[5]
I love my Vargur, I can hit stuff out at max targeting range with 800mm Auto Cannons, when before I had to choose which guns to use. I can use them for long and short range.
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The Old Chap
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Posted - 2011.02.25 17:21:00 -
[6]
Vargur, but use 800mm autocannons instead of artillery. You can still pop a frig with one shot at 80km, if you use gyro's in the low slots.
Shield tanked Vargur is easier to tank and maintain dps than an armour tanked Paladin.
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Julien Brellier
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Posted - 2011.02.25 19:07:00 -
[7]
Another vote for Winmatar-based AC goodness.
Either a Vargur or a Machariel with 800mm AC will rip through any L4 out there and they both have good tanks.
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Sword Knight
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Posted - 2011.02.25 19:47:00 -
[8]
It seems the forum is split, though because I have an alt with pulse lasers the Auto Cannons might be best for contrast
Thx for the advise!
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Qolde
Minmatar the unified Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.02.25 20:35:00 -
[9]
Tried both in level 4's and i'd go with the vargur.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.02.25 20:41:00 -
[10]
Vargur isn't much less $$ than a Machariel, I would use the Machariel over the Vargur. :P - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2011.02.25 21:13:00 -
[11]
Machariel > all. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
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Burial Day
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Posted - 2011.02.25 23:12:00 -
[12]
I like how this still hasn't been moved
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Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.
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Posted - 2011.02.25 23:55:00 -
[13]
Marauders were mostly obsoleted by the faction BS boost, the Noctis was the final nail in the coffin, don't waste the SP till CCP learn to introduce content without it making the existing one obsolete.
A Machariel and a Nightmare is all you need, and being skilled in all 4 BS will somewhat nerf proof you.
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Planktal
Gallente Kenshao Industries Galactic Acqisition Specialists
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Posted - 2011.02.26 04:17:00 -
[14]
What the Marauders have over the faction battleships is ammo usage. Mach uses 7 rounds per, while the Vargur uses only 4. . . Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. Everyone has a right to be stupid, just some people abuse the privilege. |
Pentinor
The Dark Horses. Sanctus Ianitores Mundi
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Posted - 2011.02.26 04:31:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sword Knight I already have an alt with a Pal and Pulse lasers for short range.
Fit scorch and maybe a tracking computer...problem solved? I honestly have no problems with pulse lasers on my pali except with the occasional 1st room on worlds collide...but gotta go 20km to the gate so not that big of a deal. Signature locked. Please file a petition to discuss the matter - CCP Fallout |
Lady Aja
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.26 05:16:00 -
[16]
what ever you make up for in blitzing missions with your varg you loose in ammo use.
use a nightmare
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Lady Aja
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.26 05:23:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Planktal What the Marauders have over the faction battleships is ammo usage. Mach uses 7 rounds per, while the Vargur uses only 4.
good point my man.
My nightmare uses 4 crystals every 75 or so missions.
I bet you wont have anywhere near that using a varg or a mach lol
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Red Emma
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.02.26 05:30:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Caius Sivaris Marauders were mostly obsoleted by the faction BS boost, the Noctis was the final nail in the coffin, don't waste the SP till CCP learn to introduce content without it making the existing one obsolete.
A Machariel and a Nightmare is all you need, and being skilled in all 4 BS will somewhat nerf proof you.
I don't see how the Noctis causes a marauder to be obsolete. If you run a mission, and come back later in a Noctis to salvage it, you're still behind the guy who looted as he ran the mission, and doesn't have to return to get his loot.
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2011.02.26 05:43:00 -
[19]
buy a nightmare, fit with officer and deadspace loot (including 2x estamel invulns, at least) _____________________ Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a forum, with the alt your alt could post like. |
Trader Hansen
Failure Assured
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Posted - 2011.02.26 07:02:00 -
[20]
Having flown Nightmare (Amarr Tachyon's), Nightmare (Pulse II's), Paladin (Pulse II's) and now Vargur (AC II's), Vargur wins hands down. No contest. Sure, ammo usage sucks, but I can live with it.
Laser EM/Therm damage means you totally suck vs Guristas/Caldari and Angels/Minmatar. You're also pretty meh vs Serpentis/Gallente. And even in Amarr space you're not going to get all Sansha/Blood missions - I'd put it at about 50-60% sansha/blood missions. The only faction that Projectiles really suffer against is Guristas/Caldari due to your kinetic hole, but even then you've got Barrage whice does OK.
Tracking on an AC Vargur is also about... 20% better than the Pulse Nightmare (on the fits that I use), and you'll notice the difference vs non-BS targets. Using faction setups that both get a tank of roughly ~870dps in EFT, the Nightmare has to use more slots for the tank/cap regen than the Vargur (my nightmare setup doesn't even have an afterburner fitted ), while the vargur has an extra low slot that I use for a 2nd tracking enhancer.
Due to the short optimal/falloff of Pulse Lasers you're also going to be using Scorch a lot in a Nightmare for > 20km targets, which means even worse tracking, lower DPS and you'll chew through Scorch crystals very quickly. You could always go for faction tachyons instead, which will make you good at range, but your tracking will suck even more and forget it if you get tracking disrupted.
If all else fails, fly a Golem.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2011.02.26 10:23:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Blane Xero on 26/02/2011 10:22:51
Originally by: Trader Hansen Having flown Nightmare (Amarr Tachyon's), Nightmare (Pulse II's), Paladin (Pulse II's) and now Vargur (AC II's), Vargur wins hands down. No contest. Sure, ammo usage sucks, but I can live with it.
Laser EM/Therm damage means you totally suck vs Guristas/Caldari and Angels/Minmatar. You're also pretty meh vs Serpentis/Gallente. And even in Amarr space you're not going to get all Sansha/Blood missions - I'd put it at about 50-60% sansha/blood missions. The only faction that Projectiles really suffer against is Guristas/Caldari due to your kinetic hole, but even then you've got Barrage whice does OK.
Tracking on an AC Vargur is also about... 20% better than the Pulse Nightmare (on the fits that I use), and you'll notice the difference vs non-BS targets. Using faction setups that both get a tank of roughly ~870dps in EFT, the Nightmare has to use more slots for the tank/cap regen than the Vargur (my nightmare setup doesn't even have an afterburner fitted ), while the vargur has an extra low slot that I use for a 2nd tracking enhancer.
Due to the short optimal/falloff of Pulse Lasers you're also going to be using Scorch a lot in a Nightmare for > 20km targets, which means even worse tracking, lower DPS and you'll chew through Scorch crystals very quickly. You could always go for faction tachyons instead, which will make you good at range, but your tracking will suck even more and forget it if you get tracking disrupted.
If all else fails, fly a Golem.
Yeah? Yeah? well my Machariel goes 615m/sec with an afterburner. |
Trader Hansen
Failure Assured
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Posted - 2011.02.26 12:29:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Blane Xero Yeah? Yeah? well my Machariel goes 615m/sec with an afterburner.
If i wasn't a loot *****, I might fly the Mach. However, I am a loot ***** so I like having the 40km tractor, even if I only use it on the odd occasion then I don't have a Noctis in tow. Plus the DPS difference between Vargur and Mach is jack all (~90dps?). Plus Vargur tracks better than the Mach, and has ~10km more falloff than the Mach before tracking comps/enhancers. And the Vargur uses less ammo. And the Vargur is far easier to fit a decent omni/perma tank to (some people don't care about this; I do). So yeah, I can live with only doing 480m/s. :P
Oh dear, now look what you've made me do.
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Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.02.26 12:33:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Brooks Puuntai on 26/02/2011 12:34:36 Since StevieSG seems to be awake.
Moved to Ships and Modules from EVE General.
Also Macheriel > Vargur > Nightmare
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Dexter Talon
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.26 12:41:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Brooks Puuntai Edited by: Brooks Puuntai on 26/02/2011 12:34:36
Also Macheriel > Vargur > Nightmare
Yeah for any missions that don't involve Sansha/Blood/Merc/EOM ships.
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.26 12:51:00 -
[25]
Moved from General Discussion to Ships & Modules.
Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2011.02.26 19:28:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Trader Hansen Having flown Nightmare (Amarr Tachyon's), Nightmare (Pulse II's), Paladin (Pulse II's) and now Vargur (AC II's), Vargur wins hands down. No contest. Sure, ammo usage sucks, but I can live with it.
Laser EM/Therm damage means you totally suck vs Guristas/Caldari and Angels/Minmatar. You're also pretty meh vs Serpentis/Gallente. And even in Amarr space you're not going to get all Sansha/Blood missions - I'd put it at about 50-60% sansha/blood missions. The only faction that Projectiles really suffer against is Guristas/Caldari due to your kinetic hole, but even then you've got Barrage whice does OK.
Tracking on an AC Vargur is also about... 20% better than the Pulse Nightmare (on the fits that I use), and you'll notice the difference vs non-BS targets. Using faction setups that both get a tank of roughly ~870dps in EFT, the Nightmare has to use more slots for the tank/cap regen than the Vargur (my nightmare setup doesn't even have an afterburner fitted ), while the vargur has an extra low slot that I use for a 2nd tracking enhancer.
Due to the short optimal/falloff of Pulse Lasers you're also going to be using Scorch a lot in a Nightmare for > 20km targets, which means even worse tracking, lower DPS and you'll chew through Scorch crystals very quickly. You could always go for faction tachyons instead, which will make you good at range, but your tracking will suck even more and forget it if you get tracking disrupted.
If all else fails, fly a Golem.
in amarr space I'd take a tach nightmare/paladin any day! the only two gurista missions I remember getting were Intercept The Saboteurs, which has lots of small ships at long range lol @ falloff and low bounty bs all of the above which pretty much get wtfbbq'd by any weapon type as long as you can hit them and The Assault, where you only have to kill a small group of rats at long range tachs with standard do the job well.
vs angels the only mission out there is Angels Extravaganza. tachys don't do all that badly, but yea you would be better off in something else.
vs serpentis, I think they show up in cargo delivery? but eh blitz it
vs gallente/minmatar they only show up in the Enemies Abound chain and lasers pretty much wtfbbq the gallente, and I kill every spawn in 5/5 before the next timed respawn happens, and again everythign spawns at a pretty good range so I wouldn't want to be using acs.
vs drones/mercs, more wtfbbq laser pwnage!
most missions are blood/sansha/drone/merc
in amarr space lasers ftw!
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Trader Hansen
Failure Assured
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Posted - 2011.02.27 01:27:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton in amarr space I'd take a tach nightmare/paladin any day! the only two gurista missions I remember getting were Intercept The Saboteurs, which has lots of small ships at long range lol @ falloff and low bounty bs all of the above which pretty much get wtfbbq'd by any weapon type as long as you can hit them and The Assault, where you only have to kill a small group of rats at long range tachs with standard do the job well.
vs angels the only mission out there is Angels Extravaganza. tachys don't do all that badly, but yea you would be better off in something else.
vs serpentis, I think they show up in cargo delivery? but eh blitz it
vs gallente/minmatar they only show up in the Enemies Abound chain and lasers pretty much wtfbbq the gallente, and I kill every spawn in 5/5 before the next timed respawn happens, and again everythign spawns at a pretty good range so I wouldn't want to be using acs.
vs drones/mercs, more wtfbbq laser pwnage!
most missions are blood/sansha/drone/merc
in amarr space lasers ftw!
While I don't disagree that when you get missions that the Nightmare (and Paladin) are suited to, they do excel at them, I think the point I was making is that the Vargur (and I guess Mach) also excel at those missions (your choice of EM or thermal ammo), except the Minmatar ships don't have a great big explosive/kinetic hole like the Amarr ships do, they only have a minor kinetic hole.
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Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.02.27 03:13:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Cintas Or just keep your pally and fit beams? Oh wait, to obvious..
Reading comprehension fail. His alt flies a paly, he wants to know which one HE should train.
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Siriani Blue
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Posted - 2011.02.27 12:51:00 -
[29]
Get the vargur, it's nice to have some ability to select damage type which you won't have if you take the nightmare.
800 auto's with a few TEs will hit quite happily at 60-70k using the long range ammo (add T2 Ambits for that lil extra range) and will really nicely complement the pulse/pally at close range.
I've found the Vargur is a really nice complement to Tach Paladin if you're dual boxing (the long cycle times on the tachs makes it much easier to manage the autos for picking off all those pesky smaller ships)
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freshspree
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Posted - 2011.02.27 13:50:00 -
[30]
Train for all of them and see the difference. I currently have t2 guns on my mach and my nightmare is waiting to get some t2 love soon. The mach fairs better generally due to the damage selection stuff. It's not so great though as you have a combination that sucks balls when your facing sansha and guristas/EOM rats but you should do fine against angels and gallete/serp and a few others that i can't remember. The nightmare still outperforms the mach in worlds collide though cause i nuke everything before i get to the gate; even angel rats take one or two hits more before they die. That said, the mach/vargur isn't as awesome as some peeps think cause you still have to get within 15-25kms for BSs if you don't want to run through ammo like there's no tomorrow while the nightmare just sits like a duck and nukes everything at will.
For diversities sake which is what I preach or tend to preach on the forums. I'd say go with the vargur and enjoy winmatar goodness while it lasts.
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