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Admiral Leviathan
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Posted - 2011.03.03 06:50:00 -
[1]
We all know the current problem: If the bounty on your head is greater than the cost of a blank clone (upgraded to your skillpoints), then you can just pod yourself in exchange of a lossmail. There is no ultimate scar you can inflict on a character since skills can be re-trained and isk can be re-earned.
The only way I see the bounty system getting fixed is introducing a way to really hurt a pilot such that suicide is never worth it, regardless of the price.
Here is a few ideas:
- Bounty makes you lose skillpoints at random, based on bounty. This is very harsh and should be capped for obvious reasons. Something like 2 bil for 1 mil skillpoints max. Increasing the price further only incites more people to try harder for that pod, while also might incite the pirate to pod him/herself if they find themselves short on isk, at the risk of losing a significant amount of training. To really make this work, a pirate should be able to work his bounty down by increasing his sec status, effectively getting rid of it past 4.5 or something. Either way is a sufficient punishment.
- Bounty gets tied to a ship hull. This one would be tricky with repackaging, probably would require a minimal bounty varying per ship to prevent abuse (placing 1 isk bounties on every single ship one shows up with, making them un-repackageable). This method however can effectively make certain valued ships unusable since they have a permanent "kill me, free isk" note on their back. The key would be to place a bounty 90% worth the hull alone, perhaps more when taking rigs into consideration.
- Adding a permanent scar to being podded. Probably the least popular idea imo.
flame away, I expect most of you to be freaked out by this but I'd like to hear some thoughts on this, otherwise I just think the bounty system cannot be fixed and should just be removed unless clone prices are jacked way up.
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Reeno Coleman
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Posted - 2011.03.03 08:14:00 -
[2]
Oh my god. I can lower someone's skillpoints by paying some worthless isk?
That sounds like a reasonable game mechanic ... NOT.
On a more serious note: Bounty systems do not work when death is not permanent. period. Loosing skillpoints on death's? well that would just discourage overall fighting, wouldnt it?
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IronHack
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Posted - 2011.03.03 08:27:00 -
[3]
the bounty system does need to be change or just removed though...
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Admiral Leviathan
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Posted - 2011.03.03 14:43:00 -
[4]
A few things to keep in mind though:
- Applying bounties in 0.0 does not really exist since you need to be lower than -1.0 to be eligible for bounty. 0.0 is also the most frequent place where people get podded.
- Killing pods in empire is the biggest offense, makes you lose sec status quickly. I see no problem with being able to place a bounty only if you currently have kill rights/have been podded by said person.
- This would make one consider twice before podding.
- This will surely generate more pirates with 2 bil bounties on their head.
Situation: - 10-man pirate gang camping a gate - 5 bait battleships jump in, worth about 1 bil total - 2-3 of said pirates have a high bounty, 2 bil or more - pirate pilot is about to die - Warps-in a smartbombing battleship - ... - profit?
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Rek Seven
Gallente Guy Fawkes Trust Fund
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Posted - 2011.03.03 15:36:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Rek Seven on 03/03/2011 15:36:56
ItĘs simple; allow people to scoop a pod to a cargo so they can take them to concord for the maximum payout. Killing the pod gets you half the reward.
The catch?
The captured pod pilot will die within 15 minutes if you donĘt hand him/her over at the nearest station. This will count as a pod kill. Also, only wanted people can be scooped to the cargo hold.
Apply the skillpoint hit to the captured pilot once he has been handed over.
BOOM, pirate tears!
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Admiral Leviathan
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Posted - 2011.03.03 16:26:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Rek Seven Edited by: Rek Seven on 03/03/2011 15:36:56
ItĘs simple; allow people to scoop a pod to a cargo so they can take them to concord for the maximum payout. Killing the pod gets you half the reward.
The catch?
The captured pod pilot will die within 15 minutes if you donĘt hand him/her over at the nearest station. This will count as a pod kill. Also, only wanted people can be scooped to the cargo hold.
Apply the skillpoint hit to the captured pilot once he has been handed over.
BOOM, pirate tears!
As a pirate myself, I think this would be interesting. It would require a module that works in empire and can easily catch criminally flagged or bounty-bearing pilots. Kind of like bubbles work in 0.0, but these catch everything in their range.
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Ranud Sunraker
Minmatar Brothers of Destiny
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Posted - 2011.03.04 00:04:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Ranud Sunraker on 04/03/2011 00:06:41 I have a counterproposal.
Why not make the bounty more annoying for those who get it?
- Make the Bounty not apply to the pod only, but to the ship as well; tied to the insurance payout.
1. When you kill (as in blow up his ship) someone with a bounty on his head, let the killer get half (or another percentage) of the Platinum Insurance equivalent paid out while the victim receives no recompensation. The payout is subtracted from the bounty.
2. When you pod someone with a bounty, you don't get the full bounty but a percentage of the bounty, say 20-30% + fixed percentage of the value of the implants. The payout for a podkill is only awarded again after a certain amount of time has passed. The amount of time is either fixed, say 1 hour, 4 hours... Or it could be determined by the amount of the bounty, say 1 min per full million ISK of bounty. (Maybe 5 min per full million ISK.)
3. As long as you have bounty on you, you cannot raise your security status (above -5.0).
These measures would impede 'buddy killing' enormously, since the buddy of the podded would have to kill him over and over again, since the bounty decreases only gradually. And it would be coupled with a substantial loss of money since you only get part of the insurance sum/value of implants. So the only way to get rid of big parts of the bounty, would be to get killed in an expensive ship or podded with expensive implants installed.
The 'pseudo' insurance amounts for T2 ships would have to be raised, to better reflect their real market value. (Only for the bouties, not real insurance.)
The system has it's flaws, but is surely an improvement to the current implementation. It would at least take several poddings to recover a substantial amount of the bounty and at least gives the bounty hunter a small reward for blowing the fugitives ships up.
Discuss the system and the proposed values. Feedback please. ________________________________ The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the most discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny..." ~Isaak Asimov |
Admiral Leviathan
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Posted - 2011.03.04 04:38:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ranud Sunraker ...
Upon further reflexion, I think the best way to hurt a pirate with a bounty being killed in a blank clone is to remove something from him every time this happens.
isk? can't work if the pirate has 0 isk. assets? can't work if the pirate has no assets. reputation/standings? the pirate already has low reputation, little to no effect. skillpoints? it is the only remaining choice to make bounty system work.
This might not be what EVE needs though, please discuss that. It remains however the only real penalty preventing people from podding themselves.
Sure, a pirate may choose to favor isk versus skillpoints, but the random nature of this loss might be too risky if he loses the ability to fly certain ships when some skills are no longer at V.
Finally, to counter the skillpoints loss, a pirate may get rid of the bounty by either paying the bounty twice from his pocket (an consequently reimbursing the ones who placed it while himself losing that amount) or just grinding sec status to 4.5-5.0 (not very easy when being a pirate).
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Meridith Akesia
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.03.04 05:36:00 -
[9]
Bounties need to be fixed yes.
This is not the way to do it.
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Ranud Sunraker
Minmatar Brothers of Destiny
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Posted - 2011.03.04 13:34:00 -
[10]
Since placing a bounty is a monetary transaction, i think the penalties should stay in the monetary area.
If a pirate already has 0 ISK he'll have to be extra careful because he'd be getting no insurance payouts as long as the bouty stays on his head.
Also my proposal would not take his money away directly but indirectly and impede his options to gain access to the bounty.
And i feel strongly negative about influencing another player's SP pool, should not be possible in my opinion. ________________________________ The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the most discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny..." ~Isaak Asimov |
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Corporal Punishment08
NosWaffle Nostradamus Effect
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Posted - 2011.03.04 17:00:00 -
[11]
People laugh about bounties on their heads. It's a joke. This is not the way to fix the system.
I still think the best way is to allow people with large bounties on their heads to be attacked in all sec without aggro timer or Concord intervention. Obviously the bounties must be large, because otherwise I would just go place a 1 isk bounty on a miner's head then go pop him. Probably upwards of at least 150m isk. Also, you should get half the bounty for the ship, and half for the pod. This way, someone can't just go place a bounty on someone's head in high sec, pop their ship, and get their bounty back. It's harder to pop pods in high sec, cause they're harder to lock before they warp away, IF the pilot is spamming the warp-to button ofc.
Also, to make it even harder, you can only pop people with bounties on their heads in high sec if they have a negative sec status, maybe anyone below -1 or -2, with a 150m bounty.
Thta would help bounty-hunting become a legit career path. _____________________________________ Real men corpse tank. |
Manalapan
Dynasty Banking General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.04 18:52:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Manalapan on 04/03/2011 18:52:48 No, you should not have a mechanic largely player controlled that allows for the loss of skill points (Yes I know T3 losses but that is predefined this is based on how high your bounty gets). Also depending on how you cap it I could very well use alts and a lot of money to pod someone back to noob status. That part is a terrible idea. Overnight pirating would become a not viable play style.
However I do like the idea tied to a ship hull. I actually have proposed a bounty hunting solution that that removes the podding element from bounty hunting. Link to it EVE-O Forums. ------ Support Manalapan for CSM!
Fixing EVE The Player That Makes EVE Stronger
Manalapan Campaign |
NinjaSpud
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Posted - 2011.03.04 19:20:00 -
[13]
Ya giving people the ability to forceably remove others SP for the cost of a little isk is a bad idea. Remember that when dealing with alliances, even 2bill is a pretty small price. My 8 man corp grossed almost 11bill just last month. That opens a door of crazy that would inevitably drive everyone away from eve. CCP programmers would lose their job and then be forced to work at Burger King... and lets face it, BK Sucks!
Now, you're other idea of attaching a bounty to a ships hull is marvelouse. BYBY to bounty scams (having a buddy/alt kill you for the bounty money and split it with ya) I'll support that one.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.03.04 20:27:00 -
[14]
Support SP loss. Eve has too much SP, we need a drain.
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Frank Shitlitz
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Posted - 2011.03.05 03:29:00 -
[15]
I thought bounties were the way people with more ISK than skill said GJ!
In a world where words are cheap, why do you want to nerf peoples ability to say nice things to each other?
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Admiral Leviathan
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Posted - 2011.03.05 04:20:00 -
[16]
Please keep in mind we are talking about a very specific EVE population here: pirates, a.k.a. people with negative sec status. You cannot apply a bounty to anyone, even if they robbed your corp dry unless they are negative in sec status.
It would add more significance to security status. It would make the bounty system no longer exploitable by the bearer. It would incite those with a bad sec status to work it. Conversely, it would incite pirate to pay back their victims to prevent skillpoint loss
I propose that bounties can only be placed on people who podded you in empire and only once until podded again (non-cumulative)
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Kaeden Teresect
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Posted - 2011.03.11 21:34:00 -
[17]
Seeings how no one has mentioned yet, SP can be directly correlated to the REAL cost of game play. What you are suggesting is that ISK be more valued then the money people have payed to earn the SP they have (subscription). Also this suggestion, if implemented, would offset the balance of power in favor of law abiding players. I agree the bounty system needs attention, but not like this.
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Baaldor
Igneus Auctorita Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.03.11 22:51:00 -
[18]
Actually, you should receive a SP loss every time someone says "Yar" and "toon".
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Lenasha
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Posted - 2011.03.12 00:58:00 -
[19]
SP Loss is the only way that would make getting a bounty a bad thing. All other suggestions can be worked around with just an alt or friend doing the killing.
However if you are going to have SP loss as a result you will have to have strict rules on how you can apply a bounty. I would submit some critria be involved that will limit how and when a bounty can be set.
- You must have kill rights to set a bounty
- the infraction that caused the kill rights must be in a system of 0.1 or higher
- The kill right must come because of illeagal action
- SP loss is determined by the number of people that have placed a bounty
Basically if you are killed in high sec or low sec illeagaly (I can't remember if kill rights are granted during war decs or not) then you can place a bounty on the person. A big difference from the OP I would use is that bounties can be any amount but skill loss is based on the number of people that have placed a bounty. example 1 person sets a bounty of either 1 bill or 1 mill, the SP loss will be same. The pirate has 5 bounties placed on him his SP loss will be much higher. The more people you kill the harsher the penalty.
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Selinate
Amarr Red Water Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.03.12 01:45:00 -
[20]
I would rather just see bounty hunting be made into a profession, where the issuer of the bounty can create a contract with someone else to track said person down and destroy them, instead of first come first serve, shoot him.
Yeah, it's still open to exploiting and abuse, but at least the issuer will be given a chance to research pilots before handing over a contract to make sure they aren't friends with the receiver beforehand, therefore placing the majority of the blame on the issuer if the guy with the bounty on his head gets part of the bounty.
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Baaldor
Igneus Auctorita Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.03.12 01:52:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lenasha The more people you kill the harsher the penalty.
Since you are now taking on the role there is no need for concord.
Also the "bounty hunter" should have something equally to lose if he/she/it fails and gets their **** pushed in.
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Sakide
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Posted - 2011.03.12 09:13:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Sakide on 12/03/2011 09:16:10 that bothered me before,every solution is somehow to complicated for my taste. So far my easyest idea is to remove only the bounty from someone if implants worth of the bounty value are destroyed. So podding a empty clone does nothing and gives no bounty.
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Admiral Leviathan
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Posted - 2011.03.12 15:12:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Lenasha SP Loss is the only way that would make getting a bounty a bad thing. All other suggestions can be worked around with just an alt or friend doing the killing.
However if you are going to have SP loss as a result you will have to have strict rules on how you can apply a bounty. I would submit some critria be involved that will limit how and when a bounty can be set.
- You must have kill rights to set a bounty
- the infraction that caused the kill rights must be in a system of 0.1 or higher
- The kill right must come because of illeagal action
- SP loss is determined by the number of people that have placed a bounty
Basically if you are killed in high sec or low sec illeagaly (I can't remember if kill rights are granted during war decs or not) then you can place a bounty on the person. A big difference from the OP I would use is that bounties can be any amount but skill loss is based on the number of people that have placed a bounty. example 1 person sets a bounty of either 1 bill or 1 mill, the SP loss will be same. The pirate has 5 bounties placed on him his SP loss will be much higher. The more people you kill the harsher the penalty.
very good suggestion. If the number of people affect SP loss rather than the actual amount of isk placed, it would be harder to simply transfer isk on the alt that got killrights for maximum penalty. It would also need to be capped around 50 people placing a bounty of at least 10 mil each (with killrights) for a maximum of 1 mil skillpoints. Anything past 1 mil becomes too harsh imo.
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KlintortheDestroyer
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Posted - 2011.03.12 15:59:00 -
[24]
Edited by: KlintortheDestroyer on 12/03/2011 16:05:47 i watch a lot of law and order...
auto bounties for crimes set by police ====================================== stealing from a can = 5-10k (or base value of object, placed by concord, caldari corporate pressure) stealing a loot object/mission object = value of mission object (now you recieve bounty to destroy this player's ship/infiltrate their "incarna" base and retrieve the object) destroying a ship = base cost of insurance (put on head by insurance company) podding a player = cost of clone (alpha => omega grade)
added* stealing a ship (base cost of ship + concord price on head)
player based bounties ISK? - find a player's location (spot a player then relay information to recieve reward) ISK? - find an enemy base/pirate NPC base (spot a enemy base then relay information) ISK? _ find and capture the pod of a player (base cost of clone + tip) ISK? - find and destroy a player's type of ship (like hulk or orca) (base cost of ISK? - find and kill a player (base cost of clone + wanted level (bonus from concord)
what about player imprisonment? concord could tractorbeam and imprison a player in a concord base for 2-5-30 min or even hours for commiting a crime or racking up unsanctioned kills
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