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Meridith Akesia
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.03.04 13:54:00 -
[61]
I do dumb things. I lose ships in stupid situations.
Do you think i care what someone else on the internet thinks about me?
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2011.03.04 15:04:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Patient 2428190
Originally by: Qui Shon . If there were no killmails the incentive to kill at all would be a hell of a lot lower.
Fun, Tear harvesting, boredom, pretty explosion, pod squish, Protecting space assets, Using spare ammo, Just because, loot, local moderation, griefing, so the vicitm would buy the ships you stocked on the market, protecting your space honor, to make your local smack mean more because you back it up with torrents of gunfire
I don't see any of those being affected by killmails
Tear harvesting is for sadists, people who get a kick out of making someone else feel bad. That's not me. Same for griefing, not something I want to be a part of. I don't local smack, and if I'm bored I can go get instant PvP in WoT or some other game. Loot is nice but PvP income will never amount to even 10% of PvE income.
Protecting space assets sure, but don't have to do that very often in w-space. Just because sure, but that's still less incentive then if you get a few more points on the scoreboard. I protect my space honor by always keeping my word, not exploiting, and generally trying to be an amicable chap, even when I'm attacking someone.
In short, there are many reasons to shoot other pilots in Eve, but a scoreboard is a must in *any* competitive game. Without one, there's still incentive, but it's less then with a scoreboard, that also helps form discussion with corpies about said kills or losses, even if you weren't in on it.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2011.03.04 15:13:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 04/03/2011 15:13:06
Originally by: CraigGamerPsycho Most people who are so into killmails don't really care about all that. Alot of them have nothing in their real life to show that they've achieved something so they rely on collecting killmails in EVE as a form of accomplishment. There are many no-lifers in EVE particularly in 0.0. I've come across many in the 2 years i've spent in 0.0 with 2 different Alliances. There may be those that disagree with this but they're clearly in denial.
Personally i don't really care about killmail - reminds me of those kids who play COD on Xbox live and start boasting at the end of the match that they got the most kills.... I pvp for the some of the reasons mentioned in the quote i highlighted. Other times when i'm not pvping i'm Plexing, doing sanctums which i also enjoy.
So wanting to have some measuring stick for progress in a game means you're a no-lifer, I see
There was a time when I reasoned a bit like this, didn't care about km's at all and thought people that did silly. But the problem with Eve, is that most of the PvP that goes on isn't part of some solid strategy for lasting control of space or market or x, rather it's just PvP for its own sake, and the rest is engagements so big where one guy doesn't matter much, if he isn't alliance leadership. I don't really want to be involved in anything bigger then 10vs10, since I want what I do to matter, and politics isn't an option.
Without W-space, I prolly wouldn't even be playing this game anymore.
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Eve Industrialist
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Posted - 2011.03.04 17:11:00 -
[64]
This is not a comment for or against kill mails. Merely an observation.
Hulkageddon contest would not be possibe without kill mails of some kind. I see both pro and con to preceding statement so is not argument 4 1 side or the other.
From a purely dev pov I would like to see kills thru api key even if person did not get final blow.
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.04 18:26:00 -
[65]
My first year in game, my main flew in militia. Lots of big fights. Even if we lost 20 ships and only killed 15, if I happened to be in a ship that got primaried last, I got on all 15 kills while taking only one loss.
WOW! 15 to 1 kill ratio, just by flying tank fits instead of gank fits, even if we lost every fight....
Flip this around to another corp where I was in where fights were usually more like 5 v 5. My kill/loss ratio was no nearly as good.
Kill board stats are totally meaningless.
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2011.03.04 21:28:00 -
[66]
Originally by: LHA Tarawa My first year in game, my main flew in militia. Lots of big fights. Even if we lost 20 ships and only killed 15, if I happened to be in a ship that got primaried last, I got on all 15 kills while taking only one loss.
WOW! 15 to 1 kill ratio, just by flying tank fits instead of gank fits, even if we lost every fight....
Flip this around to another corp where I was in where fights were usually more like 5 v 5. My kill/loss ratio was no nearly as good.
Kill board stats are totally meaningless.
Most Kill board stats the way they're commonly kept are meaningless
But "Kill mails" and "Killboard stats" are two seperate things.
Battle clinic uses some alternative scoring metrics and also crunches some data in other somewhat interesting ways like seeing who your "associates" have been in order of frequency etc.
Its kind of fun to see who you've fleeted with and that has nothing to do and success ratio value. It does add to the richness of the game experience for me, being able to peruse what I did in the past, or look at other characters hisotries too.
Its part of the Immersion and the idea of a persistent universe.
The killboards are the "backstory" ...not the silly puff about minmataur and caldari etc that mean nothing to actual game environment.
There is a lot of data that can be put together in diffent ways, and one of these days the big killboards are going to let you query them in ways of anyone's choosing.
Maybe you want to ignore all fights with more than 8 pilots involved .
It would be great to be able to query who participated in over 20 kills in a given system between two different dates...
... just who are the biggest pvp inhabitants in old man star? that sort of question might be interesting to me.. but the stats themselves wouldn't be like the ones at the top statistically had any more value. .. i'd look at the actual kills and might notice that some guys liked to spar with each other in t1 frigs and had lots of kills against each other and others like to gank strangers at the gates.
That sort of information has to do with the history of the old man star region.. its the back story and the color of the world we inhabit.
It will be great when database mechanics and cost of maintenance drop to the point where querying that sort of stuff is a snap.
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2011.03.04 21:46:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Crumplecorn So killboards discourage people from failfits (which seem to be rampant in spite of them) and this is a bad thing how?
Crumplecorn nailed it.
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Aeo IV
Amarr Oneironautics Research Institute
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Posted - 2011.03.04 21:54:00 -
[68]
I support the adding of asteroid killmails and Sansha incursion npcs posting killmails to sansha incursion npc killboards.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2011.03.04 21:59:00 -
[69]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Originally by: Crumplecorn So killboards discourage people from failfits (which seem to be rampant in spite of them) and this is a bad thing how?
Crumplecorn nailed it.
lol I didn't say that -
I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes |
captain foivos
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Posted - 2011.03.04 22:02:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Toilarmius An easy solution to abate the woes of PvP hungry pilots.
What woes?
Originally by: Toilarmius
Capsuleer's are afraid to be idnetified with a "bad" fit. They don't want to be forever immortalized as "that failfit guy/gal". It's usually considered socially unacceptable within the Eve community to try out new fits, or things they may believe work. Why? Because most of the time people point and laugh as there is typically a general consensus on how to fit each ship class for PvP.
Well there's a reason people don't mount rocket launchers and heavy beam lasers on Ravens. Ships in EVE were designed for specific roles. Taking advantage of those roles to maximum effect usually narrows down variation in ship fits considerably.
Originally by: Toilarmius
Epeens shrink with "evidence" of killboards/killmails.
Aren't you just a regular old Sherlock Holmes.
Originally by: Toilarmius The number of wins/losses seem to matter.
That's probably because they do.
Originally by: Toilarmius People won't undock or engage if they feel it a losing cause, or have even the slightest doubt. They will hide or do whatever possible not to "mess up" or further deteriorate their killboard. It's not always that a pilot can't replace their ship, it's sometimes that they don't want to take a stat hit.
Let me fix that for you.
Originally by: Toilarmius I won't undock or engage if I feel it a losing cause, or have even the slightest doubt. I will hide or do whatever possible not to "mess up" or further deteriorate my killboard. It's not always that I can't replace my ship, it's sometimes that I don't want to take a stat hit.
Originally by: Toilarmius Bragging rights from posting and checking of killboards seem to occur frequently.
Well where else are bragging rights supposed to come from? Killboards are the only proof an engagement ever happened.
Originally by: Toilarmius Shouldn't universal stardom or infamy come from word of mouth and not killboards?
Arguable premise that you do not support with evidence.
Originally by: Toilarmius If you truly make a name for yourself, other capsuleers will spread the word of your actions on their own.
Mmmhmm, like Istvaan Shogatsuu or Chribba. This already happens. How will killboards being removed change this?
Originally by: Toilarmius In the end, I believe more capsuleers would undock or square off because the upkeep of appearances would be removed. Isn't the fight itself more important then the outcome?
Originally by: Vin Diesel It doesn't matter whether you win by an inch or a mile. Winning is winning.
Originally by: Sean Connery Losers whine about doing their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen.
Originally by: Toilarmius I realize the removal of these may also be the downfall for certain types of posts on these forums. What's more important to PvP'ers, proof or GTFO posts, or actual PvP?
I think you fail to understand that 99% of this game is about ego.
Originally by: Toilarmius I present this post to you, my fellow furry forum friends. Please respond after you have sufficiently checked my stats, because that's what qualifies me to post this stuff, right?
yiff yiff in hell -- Need a break from EVE? |
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Arnakoz
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Posted - 2011.03.04 22:04:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Arnakoz on 04/03/2011 22:04:27
really, with the thousands that get killed a day you;re worried that you'll earn a rep for having a fail fit? further, you're worried that you'll have a bad rep, at all?
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.04 22:06:00 -
[72]
Burn all books! --
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.03.04 22:57:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Freya Gleamingstar All that aside, if you dont like Killboards, no-one forces you to use them.
That's not really true. Both killmails and loss mails are generated, and I only have control of one. Though I have to admit that a lot of people don't post loss mails.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Karbowiak
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Posted - 2011.03.05 00:26:00 -
[74]
I understand where you are coming from, but i dont understand where it is you are trying to go.
If people start to not play the game properly, cause they might failfit a ship in someones eyes - and die. And then end up with eternal ridicule cause of it. Then its their loss, not mine.
Killmails does more than just provide an e-peen, or the opposite (whats that, e-gina?) - they are also a valuable intel tool. Intel tool how? well: 1) Can tell people who build stuff what is the mostly used, and optimize profit (We've seen this happen already at EVE-KILL) 2) Fitting database, find the highest occurance of similar fits, group them - and you can get the most used fit in all of EVE. 3) ISK stats (Lost, killed) 4) Which ships a pilot, corp, alliance most usually flies (And what their playstyle MIGHT be)
and the list continues. So in all fairness, no - killmails should most definetly not be removed. Killmails are as much EVE as all the whining carebears are.
That and if CCP removed killmails - i wouldn't have a reason for having my great big servers..
Co-Owner and Creator of EVSCO |
Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2011.03.05 00:45:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Aeo IV I support the adding of asteroid killmails and Sansha incursion npcs posting killmails to sansha incursion npc killboards.
Me too.
Why wouldn't the sansha publish kill propaganda to demoralize the opposition?
As for the asteroids, ...almost. The refinery tax boards could report payments they recieve by pilot or somthing like that.
Its great to think of systems having occupants and get a glimmer of their history when passing through... I try to get an ideal of the industial history of towns as I drive through them, on road trips , look at the papers for ideas of housing prices in an area... figure out how they got their name, or what geogrpahic feature lead to the the location becoming inhabited..
We can't have everthing, but Eve is about players not NPCs and disclosing player info makes for more content for more people to be aware of .. Player histories are content.
(it dawned on me that we do have some information about how many missions people have run for given agents via the publically available standing information. Being able to see some timing on that would be great too.
It would also be great to be able to click on a corp and see its history of war decs issued and recieved.
More content for us to enjoy.
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Kengutsi Akira
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Posted - 2011.03.05 00:53:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Doshia Edited by: Doshia on 03/03/2011 17:33:34 KB are the only way to prove kills and without them people would just scream lier when others tell them of their accomplishments.
SCREENSHOTS OR IT DIDNT HAPPEN!!!!111oneone ------------------------------------ "You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass" |
Zesoft
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Posted - 2011.03.05 01:09:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Mya ElleTerego
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I suppose you grade your logistics pilots on how many killmails they've got too? (Yes, I still wub you)
You know me all too well. ♥ Mya in a logi ship.
Alright, seriously, your avatar looks like it belongs in a casting call for the natives in Avatar.
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Herrring
Amarr Caldari Internal Revenue Service
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Posted - 2011.03.05 01:34:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Herrring on 05/03/2011 01:34:14 a couple of solo pvpers(as in solo pvp i mean afk cloaking for 12 hours and killing ratting ships mostly)
dont post their loss or kill mails.
Why would they?
They dont really belong in a corp or alliance, they just want the tears and are having fun while doing it.
Also it wont expose their fits if they lose ships, if some noob on the killing side forgot to post a killmail.
So if you fly solo and dont care about stats I would actually recommend not posting your loss mails at least.
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Val Amora
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Posted - 2011.03.05 01:34:00 -
[79]
I wish CCP would implement an official, automated killboard.
It wouldn't be called a 'kill board' per se, but a combat reporter.
People could opt in / out, or hide their public information for intel purposes, much like certificates. It could be included in full API, so you could show corps you apply to, or **** with it in an application.
It makes complete sense imo, because your ships are going to be registered within the universe, and when one gets blown to bits, it probably phones home.
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CCP Spitfire
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.05 08:31:00 -
[80]
Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.
Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online |
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.03.05 09:05:00 -
[81]
If you removed killboards, EVE I think would suffer as a game. I've not cared about them much cept when in alliances that required them. However they are a major driving force for the pvp community. Without that community there is no eve as they account for the majority of all purchases of ships and equipment and ammo etc.
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
[orange]Your signature is to |
knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.03.05 09:18:00 -
[82]
Originally by: CraigGamerPsycho Edited by: CraigGamerPsycho on 04/03/2011 12:13:32
Originally by: Patient 2428190
Originally by: Qui Shon . If there were no killmails the incentive to kill at all would be a hell of a lot lower.
Fun, Tear harvesting, boredom, pretty explosion, pod squish, Protecting space assets, Using spare ammo, Just because, loot, local moderation, griefing, so the vicitm would buy the ships you stocked on the market, protecting your space honor, to make your local smack mean more because you back it up with torrents of gunfire
I don't see any of those being affected by killmails
Most people who are so into killmails don't really care about all that. Alot of them have nothing in their real life to show that they've achieved something so they rely on collecting killmails in EVE as a form of accomplishment. There are many no-lifers in EVE particularly in 0.0. I've come across many in the 2 years i've spent in 0.0 with 2 different Alliances. There may be those that disagree with this but they're clearly in denial.
Personally i don't really care about killmail - reminds me of those kids who play COD on Xbox live and start boasting at the end of the match that they got the most kills.... I pvp for the some of the reasons mentioned in the quote i highlighted. Other times when i'm not pvping i'm Plexing, doing sanctums which i also enjoy.
that's no reason to remove killmails or killboards though.
many corps and alliances with allot of members use them as a sole method of participation levels (too many people sit and rat all day long and let others defend territory while they get rich which isn't very helpful), campaign success or failure (important for a variety of reasons), verify loss reimbursment (essential for sov alliances) etc.
its also used to track member participation in other ways I.e. seeing who is missing cta's in favour of camping gates for easy kills or who's being a numpty and got caught ratting in capital ships or killed missioning and in high sec during a war dec.
I've read every post on this and haven't seen a good reason yet to remove killboards or mails.
the only thing it points out is alterations are needed I.e. a central ccp run killboard and stats site, additional stats for logistics or dictor bubbles aiding ship kills but mainly a need for a centralised killboard.
don't get me wrong, I pvp for fun but there's more to killmails than buffing someones ego or denting a losers pride.
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knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.03.05 09:30:00 -
[83]
Originally by: LHA Tarawa My first year in game, my main flew in militia. Lots of big fights. Even if we lost 20 ships and only killed 15, if I happened to be in a ship that got primaried last, I got on all 15 kills while taking only one loss.
WOW! 15 to 1 kill ratio, just by flying tank fits instead of gank fits, even if we lost every fight....
Flip this around to another corp where I was in where fights were usually more like 5 v 5. My kill/loss ratio was no nearly as good.
Kill board stats are totally meaningless.
you know that you can display them as a battle? that's not meaningless at all as it will show your loss in reference to all the other ones.
in fact it maybe useful as it will show primaries on order so you can work out a different tactic for next time so you won't lose. I.e a curse was called primary first, next time round have the logistics be repping the curse when it all kicks off to avoid that loss.
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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
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Posted - 2011.03.06 00:29:00 -
[84]
What if you only got 0.05 kill if you kill 1 ship with 20 pilots? After 20 kills you still only get 1 kill ...
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