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Update: 245.7m effective isk/hour Mission running.

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AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.06 12:42:00 - [1] Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 06/03/2011 12:56:36 Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 06/03/2011 12:56:06 Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 06/03/2011 12:54:49 Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 06/03/2011 12:52:08 Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 06/03/2011 12:48:59 Hello, this is a continuation from http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1368512 I think ive reached the peak of what a single ship could earn solo by itself. I still try to do research from time to time, but its difficult to improve without spending billions for so little. Only one ship is used : Tengu Anyways, my new isk/hour chart Isk/hour : 153m isk/hour at 1K isk/lp - Liquidate Infinite LP / week 246m isk/hour at 2K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 10-20m LP / week 338m isk/hour at 3K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 10-20m LP / week 430m isk/hour at 4K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 5-10m LP / week 522m isk/hour at 5K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 2-3m LP / week http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/3746/45486731.jpg The following image shows how Completion time is calculated First raw data is picked. For example. http://www.imgplace.com/viewimg156/3771/1620110306115017.jpg After obtaining enough raw data (in my case, i got around 120 simultaneous equations, with more then 800 missions in my sample space) , I used Solver, to solve for mission completion time, to minimize the variance of completion time. My average completion time is 6.4 minutes , the variance is plus minus 0.07 minutes. Average time spent traveling/accepting mission/rejecting mission/jumping gates/undocking is 4.2 minutes. Average time shooting is 2.2 minutes per mission. which is on average 35-40 missiles are shot per mission.
3v3 Online	Posted - 2011.03.06 12:59:00 - [2] lol
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.06 13:01:00 - [3] Alright. bumped and done. imageshack is a horrible place to upload ;/
Loraine Gess	Posted - 2011.03.06 14:54:00 - [4] Boy I wish my LP was valued at 25 billion per.
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2011.03.06 16:16:00 - [5] You must be uber rich by now. I'm quiting eve...send me all your isk and I'll double it. When you kill someone on duty... ...they have to be your slave in the afterlife.
Linda Flamewalker	Posted - 2011.03.06 16:23:00 - [6] And where is the time it takes you to actually gather the tags/sell the items you get from your LP... that counts too you know.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2011.03.06 17:07:00 - [7] I have some LP I'd like to sell you. I'll do it for half of what you sell it for. Oh yeah, about my sig... you have now read it.
Telvani	Posted - 2011.03.06 17:47:00 - [8] Originally by: Wet Ferret I have some LP I'd like to sell you. I'll do it for half of what you sell it for. You should do this^ when you sell it for its real value it won't take you any time so you'll be earning over a bill an hour!!!
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.06 17:53:00 - [9] Originally by: Linda Flamewalker And where is the time it takes you to actually gather the tags/sell the items you get from your LP... that counts too you know. ~0. They're parallel tasks. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Nina Mercedez	Posted - 2011.03.06 18:35:00 - [10] Go back to your gay bars, these posts are getting old.
Leentje lee Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.06 21:08:00 - [11] Haters gonna hate =P. I can't tell if those numbers are legit, but great job if so;-).
Yxalitis	Posted - 2011.03.06 21:25:00 - [12] Edited by: Yxalitis on 06/03/2011 21:27:18 Haters gonna hate? No, thinkers gonna think. We all run missions, we all know realistic rates for clearance times, salvage times (if you bother), and selling/travelling time. Just converting 10,00 LP into isk takes a LONG time. Just the time to undock, warp to stargate, jump, warp to mission, and on completion warp back to stargate, jump, and warp back to station and dock, takes 3-8 minutes...time it sometime. So if he claims to finish one mission, including ALL time from chatting to mission agent, until the last isk drops into his account from the last LP conversion, as 17 minutes, he is DREAMING. I'll grant on the definition HE uses to account for his time, he is right. BUT using the measurement of time that normal people use: ie: "I started at 8:00pm, and finished at 10:00pm, and I made 100 isk from 2 missions," ...he is wrong. Heck, has he even included the time it took him to draw up that Excel table? But, hey, if you want to hold a stop watch in one hand, and start and stop it whilst you personally think "I am missioning....NOW!" good luck to you... I don't believe in signatures, not even really cool ones like "This signature intentionaly left blank"
dodixiehereicome	Posted - 2011.03.06 22:20:00 - [13] I thought you were doing 400m per hour at the end of last year on whatever alt you were at the time?
Barbarellas sister	Posted - 2011.03.06 22:31:00 - [14] Ive read lots of these millions of isk per hour posts and have tried and tried to figure out what I was doing wrong. I can solo level 4 missions all day long in my raven, but, I have yet to exceed about 20 mil per hour.
Tian Nu SRBI	Posted - 2011.03.06 22:54:00 - [15] I run mission in Golem and Vargur both maxed skills and make about 1bill every two days (12h) in safe space selling implants +5 for LP. In same time I can get 1 bill from plex in 0.0 in less that 2h, 3h if escalated. 1bill in high sec running missions every two days is realistic. I donÆt loot salvage btw take too long. But tbh who care who make what as long you enjoy the game the way you play ità
Lazarix Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2011.03.06 23:06:00 - [16] you'll probably have to factor the cost of the tengu into it too to get an accurate reading :P
Lynx Australis	Posted - 2011.03.07 01:41:00 - [17] Edited by: Lynx Australis on 07/03/2011 01:43:58 My LP's are worth double than yours. Anyway, the carebear is strong in this one, but the eLP stuff is unnecessary. Blitzing missions is the most efficient way and has always been, Tengu is just better and faster than anything else has ever been since it's cruiser hull.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2011.03.07 01:45:00 - [18] lol, I do a million lp like every several months, and that is when I'm really going at it (okay tbh I'm pretty damn lazy about it). guess I gotta try hitting up a lowsec mission hub ~250m/hour sounds pretty reasonable, especially if you are pulling in 100k lp in an hour
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.07 05:23:00 - [19] There are many ways to mitigate the time taken to produce, interchange, and market your goods. This is the reason i always say, mission running needs the most skills in eve ship skills gun skills social skills trade skills production skills remote production/trade skills and some others. While mission running, abuse your remote market skills to put up market orders While mission running, abuse your remote market/contract skills to sell your items Now, use rffreight to move our tags/items/ between the In order to change LP, first enter your station. Use your stockpile tag/item to get your LP store items. (with the new lp store, this takes 30secs-1 minute) Use your transport ship to transport it to the nearest high sec factory(i ussualy take around 8 minutes both ways). Move back to the mission hub, while remote making your items, if necessary (0 seconds) Leave your items in the high sec station, and take tags from that high sec station. Now while mission running, enter rffreight channel and begin freighting items to hub, and tags from hub to that station So the total cost of changing 1 million LP, worth 2 billion isk, is only 2-20m (contract), and takes only 8+1 minute. However 1 million LP is 10-11 hours or 600-660 minutes worth of mission, of which 9 minute is very insignificant (less then +0.1 per mission)
Loraine Gess	Posted - 2011.03.07 05:37:00 - [20] Edited by: Loraine Gess on 07/03/2011 05:38:17 Originally by: AristotleOnassis There are many ways to mitigate the time taken to produce, interchange, and market your goods. This is the reason i always say, mission running needs the most skills in eve ship skills gun skills social skills trade skills production skills remote production/trade skills and some others. While mission running, abuse your remote market skills to put up market orders While mission running, abuse your remote market/contract skills to sell your items Now, use rffreight to move our tags/items/ between the In order to change LP, first enter your station. Use your stockpile tag/item to get your LP store items. (with the new lp store, this takes 30secs-1 minute) Use your transport ship to transport it to the nearest high sec factory(i ussualy take around 8 minutes both ways). Move back to the mission hub, while remote making your items, if necessary (0 seconds) Leave your items in the high sec station, and take tags from that high sec station. Now while mission running, enter rffreight channel and begin freighting items to hub, and tags from hub to that station So the total cost of changing 1 million LP, worth 2 billion isk, is only 2-20m (contract), and takes only 8+1 minute. However 1 million LP is 10-11 hours or 600-660 minutes worth of mission, of which 9 minute is very insignificant (less then +0.1 per mission) 660 to 669 minutes is actually a 1.3% increase, which is actually a 3.3m increase per hour to your supposed rate. I don't think you're qualified to do math.
dodixiehereicome	Posted - 2011.03.07 05:45:00 - [21] Originally by: dodixiehereicome I thought you were doing 400m per hour at the end of last year on whatever alt you were at the time? Here: http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1409523#15 You said 12b per month at 1 hour playing a day 12b / 30 = 400m
Widemouth Deepthroat	Posted - 2011.03.07 05:47:00 - [22] I do similar. Haven't missioned in a while but I would never do high sec again after I found how much more isk I can make in low sec.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.07 05:49:00 - [23] Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 07/03/2011 05:55:05 Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 07/03/2011 05:51:44 Quote: 660 to 669 minutes is actually a 1.3% increase, which is actually a 3.3m increase per hour to your supposed rate. I don't think you're qualified to do math. Hello. Did you mean DECREASE in isk/hour? Being a smarty pants is cool nowadays, however, sad for you, im quite correct with my excelling. Afterall, an increase from 660-669 minutes. My average mission completion time is 6.359 , which implies approximately 103.7899 missions in 660 minutes. At 669 minutes, and 103.7899 missions, my average completion time increases to 6.44571 Which is less then +0.1 minute per mission. (or 6 seconds) Hence, my description of less then +0.1 minute per mission is more accuracte then a sudden increase of isk/hour. And about the 400m isk/hour statement, the max which was 120b a month, was because my hub was in the same region with amarr (surprise!) , so that included a huge ammount of margin trading profit, which vastly increased my isk/LP to 4~7(i was buying 1.3 million tags at 400-500K at that time, it is now 2.5m++) And yea. i still hate 3D girls.
dodixiehereicome	Posted - 2011.03.07 06:07:00 - [24] Originally by: AristotleOnassis Stuff One more question, how did you half the time on simple missions with obvious objectives like Gone Berserk, Stop the Thief and Zazzmatazz? I don't see those on your standings log either.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.07 06:13:00 - [25] Quote: This is my Data source, from "Standings" in char sheet http://www.imgplace.com/viewimg156/3771/1620110306115017.jpg After obtaining enough raw data (in my case, i got around 120 simultaneous equations, with more then 800 missions in my sample space) , I used Solver, to solve for mission completion time, to minimize the variance of completion time. Gone berserk is a simple shoot-the-trigger. This shoudnt take more then 4-5 minutes. Zazzmatazz and stop thief is still 3 minutes even alone. (altho because of eve time, 3 minutes means anything between 2 minutes 1 second to 3 minutes 59 seconds) The difference will probably stem from tengu warping 50% faster, and alligning within 4 seconds.
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.03.07 09:00:00 - [26] AristotleOnassis please post your tengu fit
pussnheels Amarr Vintage collective	Posted - 2011.03.07 09:03:00 - [27] no offense but is running missions with a stopwatch and a spreadsheet really that much fun ---------------------------------------------- God knows everything but a true amarrian knows everything even better
Jovan Geldon Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire	Posted - 2011.03.07 11:23:00 - [28] Originally by: pussnheels no offense but is running missions with a stopwatch and a spreadsheet really that much fun /thread
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.07 11:26:00 - [29] Much more fun then waiting for the cyno to be lit
Julien Brellier	Posted - 2011.03.07 11:33:00 - [30] fapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfap
Holdout	Posted - 2011.03.07 14:32:00 - [31] This thread is like the Inception of trolling imo.
dodixiehereicome	Posted - 2011.03.07 19:58:00 - [32] Originally by: AristotleOnassis Gone berserk is a simple shoot-the-trigger. This shoudnt take more then 4-5 minutes. Zazzmatazz and stop thief is still 3 minutes even alone. (altho because of eve time, 3 minutes means anything between 2 minutes 1 second to 3 minutes 59 seconds) The difference will probably stem from tengu warping 50% faster, and alligning within 4 seconds. But you said you were using a Tengu with the warp speed subsystem when you posted on Frozean, I don't think you were clearing the missions before and 50% in improvement is quite a lot when skills aren't going to make a huge difference in those missions.
Nomad Vherokic	Posted - 2011.03.07 20:14:00 - [33] I make 750m per second by selling 2 plexes... This is a game, game supposedly = fun... If you are really bothered about this, then go play Excel, maybe fleet up with an accountant. If this isn't a troll thread, then seriously you need to discover women and/or small furry animals. And if it's a troll thread, then +1, you rock oh mr internet troller of awesome, and my small furry animal awaits your pleasure... -- Why do people sign their name at the bottom of a post? We know who you are already...
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2011.03.07 22:15:00 - [34] Originally by: pussnheels no offense but is running missions with a stopwatch and a spreadsheet really that much fun I find the occasional bout of mission running fun. and seeing the wallet go up always gives me good feelings Originally by: Nomad Vherokic I make 750m per second by selling 2 plexes... This is a game, game supposedly = fun... If you are really bothered about this, then go play Excel, maybe fleet up with an accountant. If this isn't a troll thread, then seriously you need to discover women and/or small furry animals. And if it's a troll thread, then +1, you rock oh mr internet troller of awesome, and my small furry animal awaits your pleasure... some people don't have the disposable income to do such, or find the whole rmt to be immoral. and I really doubt it is a troll thread as the whole mission completion time seems pretty inline with what I can do, add in good lp conversion and lp boost due to lowsec agents and nothing looks out of line.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.07 22:27:00 - [35] Quote: But you said you were using a Tengu with the warp speed subsystem when you posted on Frozean, I don't think you were clearing the missions before and 50% in improvement is quite a lot when skills aren't going to make a huge difference in those missions. look at the difference in bounty in my ex and current spreadsheet. I probably was battleship-trigger-happy. I rarely shoot what i dont need to anymore.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.07 22:50:00 - [36] Originally by: AristotleOnassis Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 06/03/2011 12:59:32 Hello, this is a continuation from http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1368512 I think ive reached the peak of what a single ship could earn solo by itself. I still try to do research from time to time, but its difficult to improve without spending billions for so little. Only one ship is used : Tengu Anyways, my new isk/hour chart Isk/hour : 153m isk/hour at 1K isk/lp - Liquidate Infinite LP / week 246m isk/hour at 2K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 10-20m LP / week 338m isk/hour at 3K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 10-20m LP / week 430m isk/hour at 4K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 5-10m LP / week 522m isk/hour at 5K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 2-3m LP / week This is my excel snapshot for completion time and isk http://www.imgplace.com/viewimg97/2688/31386603.jpg The following image shows how Completion time is calculated First raw data is picked. For example. This is my Data source, from "Standings" in char sheet http://www.imgplace.com/viewimg156/3771/1620110306115017.jpg After obtaining enough raw data (in my case, i got around 120 simultaneous equations, with more then 800 missions in my sample space) , I used Solver, to solve for mission completion time, to minimize the variance of completion time. My average completion time is 6.4 minutes , the variance is plus minus 0.07 minutes. Average time spent traveling/accepting mission/rejecting mission/jumping gates/undocking is 4.2 minutes. Average time shooting is 2.2 minutes per mission. which is on average 35-40 missiles are shot per mission. Now do it in real time and you'll be my hero. until them my rofl copter swooshes.
Sturmwolke	Posted - 2011.03.08 00:05:00 - [37] Two things : - You might want to stick a low-sec missioning title on this for clarity. - The screenshot shows 10 missions completed, not 11.
dodixiehereicome	Posted - 2011.03.08 00:53:00 - [38] Originally by: Nomad Vherokic I make 750m per second by selling 2 plexes... This is a game, game supposedly = fun... If you are really bothered about this, then go play Excel, maybe fleet up with an accountant. You earn $126,000/hour? Very impressive, I think you win. Originally by: AristotleOnassis look at the difference in bounty in my ex and current spreadsheet. I probably was battleship-trigger-happy. I rarely shoot what i dont need to anymore. That's not it because the differences in bounty are less than 100k between the two spreadsheets for the missions I looked at, it's just you've cut down the time by half doing the same mission in the same way in likely a very similar ship.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.08 04:05:00 - [39] please read http://www.imgplace.com/viewimg156/3771/1620110306115017.jpg all my timings are done in real time. About gone berserk, even a lone mission is easily done in 5 minutes. Sturmwolke, Cargo delivery is on the next page, which could not fit in the same page (look at the time stamps) The reason this happens, is to minimize standing lost, You reject missions as soon as you get a bad mission. So most of the time, you will get Accept Accept Accept Accept or Accept Accept Reject Reject Accept Reject Accept, Where you reject as soon as possible when you get a non-acceptable mission. This is important, as you need to keep your station standing to more then negative two.
Christmassacree	Posted - 2011.03.08 06:11:00 - [40] Edited by: Christmassacree on 08/03/2011 06:11:43 What standings , which corp are needed and in which system are you missioning in ??
Miss Xoco Minmatar Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing Renaissance Federation	Posted - 2011.03.08 07:45:00 - [41] Edited by: Miss Xoco on 08/03/2011 07:45:18 I make 600M ISK a hour doing missions, but only in my dreams. However, someone else will make my dreams come true. 2.2 min shooting time? Yeah i always dream about. Maybe i forgot to put a Gyrostab in every single low slot i can find.
Christmassacree	Posted - 2011.03.08 08:06:00 - [42] Originally by: Miss Xoco Edited by: Miss Xoco on 08/03/2011 07:45:18 I make 600M ISK a hour doing missions, but only in my dreams. However, someone else will make my dreams come true. 2.2 min shooting time? Yeah i always dream about. Maybe i forgot to put a Gyrostab in every single low slot i can find. I thought this guy was full of crap, when i saw his last topic, but when i had some experience and achieved his isk/hr, i believed. Now i know that this thread is not full of **** at all, but i don't currently have tengu to test it out.
Burnharder	Posted - 2011.03.08 08:27:00 - [43] Originally by: Christmassacree Originally by: Miss Xoco Edited by: Miss Xoco on 08/03/2011 07:45:18 I make 600M ISK a hour doing missions, but only in my dreams. However, someone else will make my dreams come true. 2.2 min shooting time? Yeah i always dream about. Maybe i forgot to put a Gyrostab in every single low slot i can find. I thought this guy was full of crap, when i saw his last topic, but when i had some experience and achieved his isk/hr, i believed. Now i know that this thread is not full of **** at all, but i don't currently have tengu to test it out. Alt posting in your own thread ftl.
Starshi	Posted - 2011.03.08 08:48:00 - [44] Originally by: Burnharder Originally by: Christmassacree Originally by: Miss Xoco Edited by: Miss Xoco on 08/03/2011 07:45:18 I make 600M ISK a hour doing missions, but only in my dreams. However, someone else will make my dreams come true. 2.2 min shooting time? Yeah i always dream about. Maybe i forgot to put a Gyrostab in every single low slot i can find. I thought this guy was full of crap, when i saw his last topic, but when i had some experience and achieved his isk/hr, i believed. Now i know that this thread is not full of **** at all, but i don't currently have tengu to test it out. Alt posting in your own thread ftl. Ok, here is my main :P
Miss Xoco Minmatar Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing Renaissance Federation	Posted - 2011.03.08 09:56:00 - [45] Edited by: Miss Xoco on 08/03/2011 09:56:31 Could the people please stop always praising the Tengu? There is many other capable ships such as Loki, Vagur, Machariel, Nightmare and more. As for your awesome ISK gathering skill, youre welcome to party up with me and show it in front of my eyes.
Christmassacree	Posted - 2011.03.08 11:27:00 - [46] Edited by: Christmassacree on 08/03/2011 11:27:40 Originally by: Miss Xoco Edited by: Miss Xoco on 08/03/2011 09:56:31 Could the people please stop always praising the Tengu? There is many other capable ships such as Loki, Vagur, Machariel, Nightmare and more. As for your awesome ISK gathering skill, youre welcome to party up with me and show it in front of my eyes. The problem of this game is that it's a "lazy" game- most of the people are just lazy to do test out some stuff and they are just waiting to get spoonfed. Can't you just go out and try it, like i did ? Look at the charts, and try to match his mission completion times. I've never flew a tengu, but i can tell you things, that are 100% true - you can adjust the tengu according to your needs. The tengu is a cruiser class with a lot of damage compared to the other cruiser-class ships. The idea of this topic is to sort out missions where tengu excels the other uber missioning ships. Those missons are about warp, align and speed - stats at which tengu can vastly outperform your favourite vargur, machariel, golem and so on, missions which are pre-calculated as the best isk/hr and lp/hr and in which you can abuse those warp, align and speed statistics. This is why i love EVE - you have to think and make a lot of calculations if you want to make something good. I have friends that have characters since 2004 and currently they ask me for tips when they mission and i'm playing only for 4 months. The thing is that when i do something, i do it right, i reasearch, make calculations, test out in-game. So open your spreadsheets, your calculator and most importantly - grab your guns in-game and you will get results :)
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.08 12:10:00 - [47] Quote: youre welcome to party up with me Sure, as long as you join my guild, i will let you do quests with me.
Nina Mercedez	Posted - 2011.03.08 13:21:00 - [48] Originally by: AristotleOnassis Quote: youre welcome to party up with me Sure, as long as you join my guild, i will let you do quests with me. ibte
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.08 15:30:00 - [49] Real time means you sat down at noon and started eve and at 1pm had +237m in your account.
Larry C	Posted - 2011.03.08 15:49:00 - [50] Originally by: Nomad Vherokic If this isn't a troll thread, then seriously you need to discover women and/or small furry animals. He's already stated that he has no interest in women. So furry animals will have to do, I guess.
Zophos Akratos Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2011.03.08 16:10:00 - [51] Edited by: Zophos Akratos on 08/03/2011 16:10:53 Originally by: Larry C Originally by: Nomad Vherokic If this isn't a troll thread, then seriously you need to discover women and/or small furry animals. He's already stated that he has no interest in women. So furry animals will have to do, I guess. Or men? That's more obvious then furry animals imo:-/. Edit: Impressive ISK/hour btw, can't tell if it's really realistic to earn _that_ much, but even if it's half the amount you're claiming to earn, it's still really nice imo:-).
Nina Mercedez	Posted - 2011.03.08 17:15:00 - [52] Edited by: Nina Mercedez on 08/03/2011 17:15:24 Originally by: Zophos Akratos Edit: Impressive ISK/hour btw, can't tell if it's really realistic to earn _that_ much, but even if it's half the amount you're claiming to earn, it's still really nice imo:-). He was previously claiming 400m/hr (post 15). I wonder what happened.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.08 18:01:00 - [53] Originally by: Nina Mercedez Edited by: Nina Mercedez on 08/03/2011 17:15:24 Originally by: Zophos Akratos Edit: Impressive ISK/hour btw, can't tell if it's really realistic to earn _that_ much, but even if it's half the amount you're claiming to earn, it's still really nice imo:-). He was previously claiming 400m/hr (post 15). I wonder what happened. Busted.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2011.03.08 18:06:00 - [54] Originally by: Christmassacree Edited by: Christmassacree on 08/03/2011 06:11:43 What standings , which corp are needed and in which system are you missioning in ?? likely he is going for ministry of war in Hophib, amarr navy in yahyerer, or ammatar fleet in assah/dysa/aranir all lowsecs with multiple agents all lv4q20 combats. Originally by: Nina Mercedez Edited by: Nina Mercedez on 08/03/2011 17:15:24 Originally by: Zophos Akratos Edit: Impressive ISK/hour btw, can't tell if it's really realistic to earn _that_ much, but even if it's half the amount you're claiming to earn, it's still really nice imo:-). He was previously claiming 400m/hr (post 15). I wonder what happened. he still claims that to some extent, even as much as 522m/hr Originally by: Miss Xoco Edited by: Miss Xoco on 08/03/2011 09:56:31 Could the people please stop always praising the Tengu? There is many other capable ships such as Loki, Vagur, Machariel, Nightmare and more. As for your awesome ISK gathering skill, youre welcome to party up with me and show it in front of my eyes. yes there are other capable ships, but there are some limits on their use in low/null sec. as soon as someone launches probes you are out of business till they get bored. and gone berserk lasts about 40 volleys, a few secs of lock time, plus travel time. a pretty in and out quick mission, and there are a bunch of missions that go even quicker.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.08 18:12:00 - [55] Quote: he still claims that to some extent, even as much as 522m/hr The point then being, and still being, LOL. Screens or it didn't happen then, screens or it didn't happen now. Its not that hard to comprehend. It would take 1 hour of time to prove, yet he has invested much more than an hour in these threads. Anyway you guys have fun making money doing lolsec missions. When I apply the same methodology to calculating WH income it becomes obvious I make several billion an hour and am wasting time here. Thanks for the spreadsheet. It reminds me of the NIST report.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.08 18:15:00 - [56] Edited by: Cipher Jones on 08/03/2011 18:15:55 since i double posted also double my income estimates please and thank you.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2011.03.08 18:51:00 - [57] Originally by: Cipher Jones Quote: he still claims that to some extent, even as much as 522m/hr The point then being, and still being, LOL. Screens or it didn't happen then, screens or it didn't happen now. Its not that hard to comprehend. It would take 1 hour of time to prove, yet he has invested much more than an hour in these threads. Anyway you guys have fun making money doing lolsec missions. When I apply the same methodology to calculating WH income it becomes obvious I make several billion an hour and am wasting time here. Thanks for the spreadsheet. It reminds me of the NIST report. you are working with a different set of assumptions and coming up with a different outcome. I would assume a typical play session consists of log in take missions leave station in space deliver jobs, create courier contracts, and create contracts for goods already in trade hubs and do more missions dock, exchange lp, start jobs log out. no you didn't make x million in that one hour, but the bounties and LP you generated during that one hour are still worth x million. and you end up making x million for that hour of effort, so we say you made x million per hour. to compare activities you have to break them down into income and time periods. isk/hour is convenient. we could just as well do isk/week, but that wouldn't really show how much effort was put in. If I log in for a few hours each week and make a few billion trading how does that compare to someone logging 60 hours of running level fours? there will be large variances in play time and efficiencies between players it is just imo a less accurate measure. if your values and methods of computation are better feel free to share them.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.08 19:03:00 - [58] Edited by: Cipher Jones on 08/03/2011 19:04:11 Quote: you are working with a different set of assumptions and coming up with a different outcome. I was being sarcastic right there. I know how to use the scientific method and I know how to recognize when someone has not. I also understand the difference between theory and application. Quote: to compare activities you have to break them down into income and time periods. And that's what I asked for last thread he made, he did not comply, and thats pretty much that.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.09 05:18:00 - [59] You are not quite right cipher. You are trying to downplay the isk obtained from LP. In fact, 1 isk from LP is worth more then 1 isk from bounty, due to depreciation being an isk faucet, but thats a different matter altogether. The isk/hour that i portraid is the average isk/hour. Afterall, if i mission run, sometimes i will get more, sometimes i will get less, however it will converge to the average isk/hour Now, lets say, you are trying to proof that, because of delayed Isk from LP, i should get less. However, look at it this way. Lets say i get A isk/hour from bounty/reward and B isk/hour from LP Average isk/hour is A+B. Lets say it takes 1 week for me to liquidate 2 million LP In the first week(n=1), i get only A isk/hour. In the second week(n=2), i get A+B isk/hour (liquidated week 1 LP) In the third week(n=3), i get A+B isk/hour (liquidated week 2 LP) etc. So if i average out my isk/hour for all n, you will find that for n= the nth week, and the a(n), the average for the nth week, For any number , N, less then A+B that you choose, i can always find A, such that for all N<a(n) when n>A which in layman term means, say A+B is 300m isk/hour, and A=50 isk/hour. No matter what number under 300m isk/hour that you choose, I can always find the number of weeks i need to mission run , so that my isk/hour is MORE then the number you choose. For example, you think i make only 270m isk/hour. All i have to do is choose, "mission run for 10 days", and i have obtained more then 270m isk/hour. Same if you choose i make only 299.999999999m isk/hour instead of 300m isk/hour. Then all i have to do is "mission run for 1000++ days", and i have obtained more then 299.999999999m isk/hour The exact calculation would be, f(n) being average isk/hour f(n)= A + (n-1)B/n as n tends to infinite, we break down the equation. (n-1)(B)/n = B*n/n-B/n = B-(B/n). f(n) = A+B-(B/n) As n tends to invite, B/n tends to zero Hence f(n from 0 to infinite) is A+B. Moreover, at the final day, i could earn all my LP isk back at 0 time (using 50-contracts toon) Therefore, to conclude, i must have made on average 300m isk/hour, or A+B isk/hour and nothing less. Delayed isk is insignificant as long as you mission run long enough.
Sturmwolke	Posted - 2011.03.09 06:37:00 - [60] OP, post #59 was very painful to read. There are too many loose ends (imo), do not expect the audience to assume - state explicitly. If any idea, no matter how great cannot be broken down for a child (or in the forum context - a wider audience), then it is useless for all intents and purposes. You'll recognise what this means if you had read M.Kaku or even R. Feynman. The gist for post #59, from my perspective, is a mathematical postulation that more less says "extra time converting the LPs is negligible over time as you continue the same low-sec missioning activity". However, keep in mind, a simple postulation or theory, regardless whether it is correct or not - is not enough. Lookup how data is presented in Kerfira or even Garbad the Weak older threads. Not perfect, but certainly less controversial as most of it are solid. In summary, reform your arguments if you expect any meaningful discussions, else it'll get infested with trolls.
Wildthorn Starfire	Posted - 2011.03.09 06:39:00 - [61] Edited by: Wildthorn Starfire on 09/03/2011 06:39:39 dont think anyone will try to understand this. sentence like this would be enough - "even while earning LP that is not real isk my earlier earned isk is being sold at the same time into isk, thus giving me real income at missioning time" tbh i dont get what the fuss is about. it is all mostly how much LP you get for mission and market work. Bad marketing - you get less, found a good spot to sell stuff - i would believe isk/h could spike to 1bil/h... just find who buys things for uber price, thats all. How much LP in average you get in one h? per mission? (if that is not secret)
Nina Mercedez	Posted - 2011.03.09 12:31:00 - [62] Originally by: Sturmwolke OP, post #59 was very painful to read. Indeed, I got about 5 words in, and gave up. He's the most decimal-places-having mother****er I've seen in a long time. Although, he is good at copying stuff from Excel.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.09 14:34:00 - [63] [quite]You are not quite right cipher. You are trying to downplay the isk obtained from LP. Nope. And im not getting the equation wrong either. Income /Time (in minutes x 60) = Isk per hour
Miss Xoco Minmatar Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing Renaissance Federation	Posted - 2011.03.09 15:01:00 - [64] Edited by: Miss Xoco on 09/03/2011 15:05:13 I am happy when i only can make 20M a hour doing missions, which is still impossible. Why that is impossible is a easy mathematical formula, it takes to much time to shot them down. Real income is probably 10M a hour, thank you. 6.4 min each mission run time is a dream state, im not sure what fit that is, proably officer in every single slot. I never heard about Missile Launchers being able to do more DPS than any other ship. My Drake for example got 7x T2 Launchers and the DPS is just worse. Besides, my Mach got a speed of 670 m/s and a stable cap of over 4 min with anything enabled, including booster. That does even work when all 7 low slots filled up with Gyros and Track Enhancers. Your Tengu is probably not even twice as fast. Regarding the joining of other corps, it doesnt work that way.
Straight Edged	Posted - 2011.03.09 15:26:00 - [65] Quote: Nope. And im not getting the equation wrong either. Income /Time (in minutes x 60) = Isk per hour im saying your numbers has no meaning. Afterall, if you say you get 100m isk/hour doing sanctums, it is a blatant lie. After all, you might get 89,293,100 isk this hour And 109,285,199 isk next. I point out that only average isk/hour is meaning ful. Ie, if n is the number of hours i mission run, or if n is the number of weeks i mission run, Then the average isk/hour can only be obtained with a fairly large sample size, ie, when n is large. Now you try to argue that in my first hour, i wont get isk from LP. But that does not matter to me. Afterall, when i run missions more and more (as my n increases), my isk/hour CONVERGES to the numbers i give in the front page. The proof is as given before. Given A is isk/hour and B is from LP isk, and there is a time difference of 1 unit(week,day,hour,minute,anything) Then since average isk obtain, isk 1st unit isk+2nd unit isk + 3rd unit isk... IE: [A+A+B+A+B+A+B+A+B+A+B+A+B+A+B+A+B......]/n F(n)= nA/n+(n-1)B/n = A + (n-1)B/n = A+B-B/n Hence when n tends to infinite, the average isk/hour tends to A+B-B/n, but B/n tends to 0 So average isk/hour tends to A+B. QED. Afterall, sometimes i might get 4 "smash the supplier" in a row. awesome. Sometimes i might get 4 "the score" in the row. which is suky. Only long term average matters. Your one-isk/hour-suit-all is too a flawed number to be used.
Sandrestal	Posted - 2011.03.09 15:33:00 - [66] In null sec I killed a Dread Gurista cruiser and got a Gila BPC. Time involved was a minute from point of warp in to belt, to looting the wreck. The Gila BPC is worth 150 mil. By inference I can say my hourly income is, 150 mil x 60 = 9 bil isk per hour. I win. Can we all go home now?
Derelicht	Posted - 2011.03.09 15:41:00 - [67] Originally by: Sandrestal In null sec I killed a Dread Gurista cruiser and got a Gila BPC. Time involved was a minute from point of warp in to belt, to looting the wreck. The Gila BPC is worth 150 mil. By inference I can say my hourly income is, 150 mil x 60 = 9 bil isk per hour. I win. Can we all go home now? No, we require updates about the new figure being 12b/hour. Nice find, though.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.09 15:43:00 - [68] Originally by: Straight Edged Quote: Nope. And im not getting the equation wrong either. Income /Time (in minutes x 60) = Isk per hour im saying your numbers has no meaning. Afterall, if you say you get 100m isk/hour doing sanctums, it is a blatant lie. After all, you might get 89,293,100 isk this hour And 109,285,199 isk next. I point out that only average isk/hour is meaning ful. Ie, if n is the number of hours i mission run, or if n is the number of weeks i mission run, Then the average isk/hour can only be obtained with a fairly large sample size, ie, when n is large. Now you try to argue that in my first hour, i wont get isk from LP. But that does not matter to me. Afterall, when i run missions more and more (as my n increases), my isk/hour CONVERGES to the numbers i give in the front page. The proof is as given before. Given A is isk/hour and B is from LP isk, and there is a time difference of 1 unit(week,day,hour,minute,anything) Then since average isk obtain, isk 1st unit isk+2nd unit isk + 3rd unit isk... IE: [A+A+B+A+B+A+B+A+B+A+B+A+B+A+B+A+B......]/n F(n)= nA/n+(n-1)B/n = A + (n-1)B/n = A+B-B/n Hence when n tends to infinite, the average isk/hour tends to A+B-B/n, but B/n tends to 0 So average isk/hour tends to A+B. QED. Afterall, sometimes i might get 4 "smash the supplier" in a row. awesome. Sometimes i might get 4 "the score" in the row. which is suky. Only long term average matters. Your one-isk/hour-suit-all is too a flawed number to be used. At this point I am just going to come out and say either english is not your first language or you do not understand the very simple equation I posted. For example you claimed you make 12b a month playing an hour a day. Thats 400m an hour over the course of a month. Its not the first hour, its the entire month. Quote: im saying your numbers has no meaning. The only number I used was 60, to represent how many minutes are in an hour. Its not even close to "has no meaning".
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.09 15:44:00 - [69] Originally by: Sandrestal In null sec I killed a Dread Gurista cruiser and got a Gila BPC. Time involved was a minute from point of warp in to belt, to looting the wreck. The Gila BPC is worth 150 mil. By inference I can say my hourly income is, 150 mil x 60 = 9 bil isk per hour. I win. Can we all go home now? You must have missed the part where the OP stated: "After obtaining enough raw data (in my case, i got around 120 simultaneous equations, with more then 800 missions in my sample space" ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Sandrestal	Posted - 2011.03.09 15:52:00 - [70] Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Sandrestal In null sec I killed a Dread Gurista cruiser and got a Gila BPC. Time involved was a minute from point of warp in to belt, to looting the wreck. The Gila BPC is worth 150 mil. By inference I can say my hourly income is, 150 mil x 60 = 9 bil isk per hour. I win. Can we all go home now? You must have missed the part where the OP stated: "After obtaining enough raw data (in my case, i got around 120 simultaneous equations, with more then 800 missions in my sample space" As soon as I get 800 Gila BPC's I'll resubmit my findings. I suspect the end result per hour will be the same....if Eve is still around tho
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.09 15:59:00 - [71] Originally by: Sandrestal As soon as I get 800 Gila BPC's I'll resubmit my findings. Don't forget to include all the other instances when you did the same thing but didn't get a BPC. Quote: I suspect the end result per hour will be the same Unlikely. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Straight Edged	Posted - 2011.03.09 16:04:00 - [72] Quote: 153m isk/hour at 1K isk/lp - Liquidate Infinite LP / week 246m isk/hour at 2K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 10-20m LP / week 338m isk/hour at 3K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 10-20m LP / week 430m isk/hour at 4K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 5-10m LP / week 522m isk/hour at 5K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 2-3m LP / week<--------- and i did answered the question somewhere before. Because the hub i was playing in had access to a trade hub, I was able to push 5-7K isk per LP. If you realise, maybe if you can find 1 year data for item prices. There is one item which was driven from less then 50,000 ISK to 300,000 ISK today. That particular drop item, enabled me to change millions worth of LP at an insanely good LP conversion. Good luck.
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2011.03.09 16:27:00 - [73] ^"was" sounds much different the "is". cause you're full of ship. p=t When you kill someone on duty... ...they have to be your slave in the afterlife.
Loraine Gess	Posted - 2011.03.09 16:44:00 - [74] Originally by: Straight Edged Quote: 153m isk/hour at 1K isk/lp - Liquidate Infinite LP / week 246m isk/hour at 2K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 10-20m LP / week 338m isk/hour at 3K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 10-20m LP / week 430m isk/hour at 4K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 5-10m LP / week 522m isk/hour at 5K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 2-3m LP / week<--------- and i did answered the question somewhere before. Because the hub i was playing in had access to a trade hub, I was able to push 5-7K isk per LP. If you realise, maybe if you can find 1 year data for item prices. There is one item which was driven from less then 50,000 ISK to 300,000 ISK today. That particular drop item, enabled me to change millions worth of LP at an insanely good LP conversion. Good luck. 5-run IN EANMS and FN webs? Yeah, anybody with half a brain can see that.
Sandrestal	Posted - 2011.03.09 16:45:00 - [75] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Sandrestal As soon as I get 800 Gila BPC's I'll resubmit my findings. Don't forget to include all the other instances when you did the same thing but didn't get a BPC. Yes and don't forget: Time in station (low sec) spinning while gankers are about Time to manufacture LP into something useful Time to haul useful LP item to place where peeps will buy it Also after looking at OP's 2nd link of times, I see, for instance, 3 missions all completing on same day and same hour and same minute tic. That is indeed fast and wish my tengu could do as well.
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.09 18:08:00 - [76] Originally by: Sandrestal Yes and don't forget: Time in station (low sec) spinning while gankers are about Time to manufacture LP into something useful Time to haul useful LP item to place where peeps will buy it Unprobable Tengu and insta-warp station bookmarks. BPCs can be sold instead of selling the manufactured items. Hauling is handled by Red Frog Freight. (Cryptically referred to as rffeight by the OP.) The OP isn't as bat**** crazy as people first think. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.09 22:41:00 - [77] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 09/03/2011 22:41:01 Originally by: stoicfaux Hauling is handled by Red Frog Freight. (Cryptically referred to as rffeight by the OP.) I didn't realize they hauled into and out of low sec. Quote: The OP isn't as bat**** crazy as people first think. Oh no, he really really is. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.10 00:38:00 - [78] To use rf freight, use the following technique (only for one-ship-play) Quote: While mission running, abuse your remote market skills to put up market orders While mission running, abuse your remote market/contract skills to sell your items Now, use rffreight to move our tags/items/ between the In order to change LP, first enter your station. Use your stockpile tag/item to get your LP store items. (with the new lp store, this takes 30secs-1 minute) Use your transport ship to transport it to the nearest high sec factory(i ussualy take around 8 minutes both ways). Move back to the mission hub, while remote making your items, if necessary (0 seconds) Leave your items in the high sec station, and take tags from that high sec station. Now while mission running, enter rffreight channel and begin freighting items to hub, and tags from hub to that station So the total cost of changing 1 million LP, worth 2 billion isk, is only 2-20m (contract), and takes only 8+1 minute. However 1 million LP is 10-11 hours or 600-660 minutes worth of mission, of which 9 minute is very insignificant (less then +0.1 per mission)
Royaldo Gallente Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance	Posted - 2011.03.10 02:51:00 - [79] Good damned noob, Im making over 700m isk pr hour running lvl4's in high sec.
Lt Angus Caldari the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2011.03.10 10:57:00 - [80] looks about right, all about getting the right agent Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.10 14:11:00 - [81] Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 09/03/2011 22:41:01 Originally by: stoicfaux Hauling is handled by Red Frog Freight. (Cryptically referred to as rffeight by the OP.) I didn't realize they hauled into and out of low sec. I doubt they do, but since the OP didn't include loot numbers (meaning that loot isn't being transported to a trade hub,) and since the OP is using remote buy/sell orders, I'm assuming that he's hopping into a high sec region to setup his orders/freight. (Or his agents are in a region with a high sec route.) ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Sturmwolke	Posted - 2011.03.10 17:41:00 - [82] Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Liang Nuren I didn't realize they hauled into and out of low sec. I doubt they do, but since the OP didn't include loot numbers (meaning that loot isn't being transported to a trade hub,) and since the OP is using remote buy/sell orders, I'm assuming that he's hopping into a high sec region to setup his orders/freight. (Or his agents are in a region with a high sec route.) @Liang Black Frog (a division of Red Frog) does low-sec, but yes, as per stoicfaux you just need the tags transported to the nearest NPC corp station (from the major hub) for conversion and manufacture. The market stuffs and freighting would probably be better done obviously with a dual-boxed alt, as the OP has a few chars to spare. The OP's mission timings are razor cut, I seriously doubt any serious opportunity for any sort of minor/major looting the NPC wrecks. The only possible worthwhile ones are those missions that drop faction tags, but I won't be surprised if he did analysis to confirm if it was indeed worthwhile. So to summarize, he won't be needing any major lowsec to highsec hauling. So what remains, is just moving the mission runnner char once in a while once a decent amount of LP has been accumulated. But, I'm sure you're already familiar with all the steps in the process .. so duh ..!
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.10 18:31:00 - [83] Originally by: Sturmwolke @Liang I don't doubt that such results are possible. My only complaints with the OP: - Holy * man, get a *ing life. He got ... was it 10 storylines/day for 3-4 weeks on end or some bull**? - I despise all the people saying that the only way to PVE in low sec is in a *ing unscannable Tengu. People were grinding missions in low sec for years before the introduction of unscannable Tengus. - There is nothing that makes the Tengu* a prerequisite to get these kinds of results. It is more a result of missioning in a certain style in a certain place. WRT RFF, I was just saying that it would be prohibitive to mass export ** from low sec... so that wasn't what he was doing. I didn't bring it up, don't care about it really, and am well aware of Black Frog. ;-) Besides the occasional trip to a mission hub is pretty small potatoes for time sinks... and may not even be a time sink depending on how and why you do it. -Liang -- Eve Forum *** Extraordinaire On Twitter
The Old Chap	Posted - 2011.03.10 18:57:00 - [84] Mine is bigger than yours... ner ner ni ner ner.
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.10 19:12:00 - [85] Originally by: The Old Chap Mine is bigger than yours... ner ner ni ner ner. Bigger isn't better if you can't get it up, Old Man. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Borun Tal Minmatar Space Pods Inc	Posted - 2011.03.10 19:18:00 - [86] Originally by: Linda Flamewalker And where is the time it takes you to actually gather the tags/sell the items you get from your LP... that counts too you know. Adn don't forget the time it takes to lift that beer or burrito to your lips, or pee into that jar beneath your desk. That counts, too!! ISK is ISK!!!
Garbad theWeak	Posted - 2011.03.10 20:52:00 - [87] I've kept a lot of stats in various isk earning pve content. I've also done a lot of min maxing and planning to get to the perfect combinations I know of. Suffice it to say that there are things out there that are much better than people think. However, the market tends to be efficient. The reality is people don't actually regularly make 5000 isk/lp. If you run for ****ty caldari navy, expect more like 650. If you run for most navies, expect more like 900. For BPs/FW and such, maybe 2k. For pirate, expect lower volume and say 2-3k. And as with all things, if it has big profits its got some reason that makes it crap (difficult logistics/standings grind, higher risk, tediously boring, have to be a member of a 0.0 circlejerk, and so on). TL;DR - run a good high sec l4 and earn 100 mil and/or buy plexes. That's the best solution for 95% of the world. For the dedicated grizzlybears, many of us make 250+ mil an hour, but we paid the price in expertise to get where we are. And honestly, its just one more fun thing to do getting there. If its not your thing to find it/ride your niche, see the TL;DR.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.11 00:06:00 - [88] Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 11/03/2011 00:14:10 Some mission allows you to make a quick meal or a quick pee. For example, worlds collide (aproximately 60 seconds free time) , damsel in distress (approximately 100 seconds free time) etc. By using a wireless laptop, you can take a dump without reducing your isk/hour And secondly, at the same hub, tengu has the better average-completion-time-of-high-isk/hour-acceptable missions which i list in excel. Of course having both in better, but im not going to bother doing Angel extravaganza/silence informant just because im in a mach. Its a waste of isk/hour. Any sane person knows those are low isk/hour missions no matter how fast you complete it. Even if you downplay tengu's superior agility, damage projection, locking time, and unprobeability, it is still the better mission ship on average.
Crackann	Posted - 2011.03.11 04:41:00 - [89] The funny thing about this is that a Tengu is not even a great lvl 4 mission runner. It can do them, but not faster than any of the top-notch mission BSs like CNR, Nightmare, etc.. That is enough to call BS on the whole thing. For people who want to know about mission running isk for real, there was a very good thread on this topic a little while back from a guy who ran a pure gank setup in Golem, blitzed all possible missions, and came up with I believe something like 60m/hr. That is realistic for a high DPS setup.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2011.03.11 05:07:00 - [90] Originally by: Crackann The funny thing about this is that a Tengu is not even a great lvl 4 mission runner. It can do them, but not faster than any of the top-notch mission BSs like CNR, Nightmare, etc.. That is enough to call BS on the whole thing. For people who want to know about mission running isk for real, there was a very good thread on this topic a little while back from a guy who ran a pure gank setup in Golem, blitzed all possible missions, and came up with I believe something like 60m/hr. That is realistic for a high DPS setup. when it comes to pure blitzing the tengu is pretty damn far out ahead. between the agility, speed, tank, and dps it just does things! as for general mission running like the way most highsec players do then yes I'd rather take the cnr/nightmare/ect
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.11 05:48:00 - [91] Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 11/03/2011 06:09:50 To me it does not matter. People keep saying dps this, dps that this ship is better, that ship is better. But in reality, the four most important stats in mission running is warp speed , allign time, targeting range and damage projection. All other stats could be in moderation Sadly, the battleships lose in most if not all of the area above. Simply because high isk/hour missions (the one i listed) are one's with insane blitzing attached to it.
Sturmwolke	Posted - 2011.03.11 08:34:00 - [92] Originally by: Liang Nuren - Holy * man, get a *ing life. He got ... was it 10 storylines/day for 3-4 weeks on end or some bull**? - I despise all the people saying that the only way to PVE in low sec is in a *ing unscannable Tengu. People were grinding missions in low sec for years before the introduction of unscannable Tengus. - There is nothing that makes the Tengu* a prerequisite to get these kinds of results. It is more a result of missioning in a certain style in a certain place. Yes, I was somewhat taken aback on how much hardcore he went, was also somewhat surprised he hasn't completely burned out yet. Youngters, they haven't grown their wisdom tooth yet I would echo the same sentiment, but for most people in general, nothing sticks until you've learnt it the hard way. Then again, adopting a different perspective, there are also people out there that thrives on competition like beating the game, being the first, being the fastest, being the best there is, best forum fencer and etc. It takes a certain frame of mind and personal effort to accomplish that. While I do admire the tenacity, if I was to ask the obvious question that pops out, why bother? Is it worthwhile? If I was to answer that for myself, generally no (not for the lack of skills or knowledge). So, agreed, while technically you're right, a temporary perspective change may explain some of their underlying motivations. As for the Tengu, it's not the only way, but it's the best there is that combines all the desirable factors into a nicely balanced package for that particular task. Before there weren't much of choices, now there is a choice(s). In essence, you're basically arguing style over ship capability. One distinct (but not the only one) contrast between one style vs the other is whether you run solo/lonewolf or you run with blues. It's an MMO yes, does someone need to be best buddies and party up, no, there is a choice (even with all the CCP encouragements).
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.11 09:02:00 - [93] Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 11/03/2011 09:03:25 btw sturmwalke. I kinda need another tengu rigged do you have jury rig IV?
Dawn Black	Posted - 2011.03.11 11:09:00 - [94] Edited by: Dawn Black on 11/03/2011 11:10:50 The cupcakes inhere talking about unscannable tengus do realize that making it unscanable nullifies the tank right? So i'm wondering why it is even mentioned. Or are we talking lvl 2's here?
Straight Edged	Posted - 2011.03.11 12:10:00 - [95] Tengu can tank all lv 4 missions with only 3 medium slot. two with implants.
Larry C	Posted - 2011.03.11 12:13:00 - [96] Originally by: AristotleOnassis Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 11/03/2011 00:14:10 Some mission allows you to make a quick meal or a quick pee. For example, worlds collide (aproximately 60 seconds free time) , damsel in distress (approximately 100 seconds free time) etc. By using a wireless laptop, you can take a dump without reducing your isk/hour I'd say stuff, but you pretty much said it all.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.11 15:14:00 - [97] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Crackann The funny thing about this is that a Tengu is not even a great lvl 4 mission runner. It can do them, but not faster than any of the top-notch mission BSs like CNR, Nightmare, etc.. That is enough to call BS on the whole thing. For people who want to know about mission running isk for real, there was a very good thread on this topic a little while back from a guy who ran a pure gank setup in Golem, blitzed all possible missions, and came up with I believe something like 60m/hr. That is realistic for a high DPS setup. when it comes to pure blitzing the tengu is pretty damn far out ahead. between the agility, speed, tank, and dps it just does things! as for general mission running like the way most highsec players do then yes I'd rather take the cnr/nightmare/ect Yes, I have to say for blitzing the tengu is pretty damn good. It blitzes WC faster than my Mach, which has much more "dps".
Esan Vartesa Khanid Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2011.03.11 20:49:00 - [98] That's impressive dedication to a hobby, I must say. But you're turning it into a job, which I think is a shame. If your sole measure of success is isk/hr, then you're doing it wrong. You might as well get a real job. Even assuming the paltry sum of $10/hr, that's over 200m isk/hr via legitimately buying PLEX. And you get pee breaks.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2011.03.11 20:56:00 - [99] Originally by: Cipher Jones Yes, I have to say for blitzing the tengu is pretty damn good. It blitzes WC faster than my Mach, which has much more "dps". if the mach could reliably deal with the webber frigs in the 2nd room I'd say they would be pretty much equal. as far as warp speed goes I'm not all that convinced it matters that much. dps, damage projection, and lock range matter for sure, plus can tank most full rooms (zomg speed tank!) and be unscanable!
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.11 23:05:00 - [100] Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 11/03/2011 23:05:44 There are many missions where tengu clearly is better then machariel World collide Blockade (6-7 min) Damsel in distress (5-6 min) Smash the supplier (4-5 min) Gone berserk 4 min The assault (4-5 min) Slave trade 1/2 (on average) Recon 1/3 and obviously, stop the thief, zazzmataz, duo of death, sansha spies ETC. Dont overestimate mach's dps. They only have 800- dps at 40km+, and 500- outside drone range. Tengu's 700+ at 130km is a much more important trait of a ship. Afterall, it does not rely on drones which are horrible at applying any dps. btw. dont tell me to get a job, as it is illegal in malaysia to have dual jobs. Yes, im an employed person.
Dawn Black	Posted - 2011.03.12 11:20:00 - [101] Originally by: Straight Edged Tengu can tank all lv 4 missions with only 3 medium slot. two with implants. Is that right? mind putting the fittings inhere as i doubt you'll be doing any damage with that fit...
Straight Edged	Posted - 2011.03.12 13:08:00 - [102] What i mean is, tengu can tank with 3 slots dedicated to tanking, And 8-9 slots dedicated to gank/mission completion time increasing mods.
Dawn Black	Posted - 2011.03.12 13:24:00 - [103] Edited by: Dawn Black on 12/03/2011 13:27:04 K yeah well i was referring to an unprobable tengu able to do all lvl 4's... so far after fiddling with EFT there is no way to do that. >> well have to correct myself.. actually did mange to throw a fit together
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.13 14:54:00 - [104] the tengu only needs Pithum C medium/ pithii small booster RF Afterburner Invul field II/ pith A photon field to tank all acceptable missions, which is 3 medium slots.
adriaans Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak	Posted - 2011.03.14 00:25:00 - [105] wouldn't a machariel with mwd fit be faster than tengu for blitzing? also, ab + small boster + invul is all a tnegu needs to tank. --signature-- F.CS boost: Here Vid: Link
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.14 01:20:00 - [106] It depends. Tengu is faster in certain missions, especially one's with very high natural isk/hour Machariel on the other hand is good in lots-of-ships missions, like silence the informant and angel extravaganza, which has low natural isk/hour. The game plan, is to reject low natural isk/hour mission (look at the excel in the first page, most missions are less then 10 minutes) , which i call the top-50%-acceptable-missions , which is where the tengu excels The weakness of the mach compared to the tengu is the following. Damage projection. the mach is not able to project damage. Projection lets tengu finish assault in 5min, blockade in 6min, damsel in 5min , smash the supplier 4min etc Drone reliance Locking time. Unprobeability and agility. Sure, the mach scores 1000+ dps at 2km, but this is a non-feasable strategy. also, the dps drops to half outside drone range, and 0 after 75km. While the tengu retains 700+ at 115-130km. "mission flight time" is an issue, but it is easily mitigated by hugging the mission completion trigger.
Songbird Gallente T.I.E. Inc.	Posted - 2011.03.14 05:18:00 - [107] basically you're very good at trading. I wonder though - why mission at all - just buy the LP points of of other missioneers. Have 5-10 reliable people that mission for you - give em tags, money, get BPC in return. Instead of wasting hours and hours of real life time - come in - do your trades - 1 hour later you've done the work of 10 hours of missioning. And since you rotate much more LP your per week revenues don't go down, even though you "pay" your workforce. Then train 10 people to buy LP, and have 100 missioneers work for you. I mean why do the dirty work, right?
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.15 05:57:00 - [108] i always use lowest-sell-order-with-significant-size (LSOWSS), by using LSOWSS, i will get the minimum price i should enter the market to maximise my lp output. secondly, i dont see at all how trading ONLY makes more isk and volume then trading WHILE missioning.
Dawn Black	Posted - 2011.03.15 12:05:00 - [109] Edited by: Dawn Black on 15/03/2011 12:06:02 Originally by: AristotleOnassis the tengu only needs Pithum C medium/ pithii small booster RF Afterburner Invul field II/ pith A photon field to tank all acceptable missions, which is 3 medium slots. Hmm.. let me see. to make the tengu unprobable with 3 mid slots free you need to use CN heavy launchers... 3 slots, pithum c-medium and gist x-photon/inv... give aroun 310-340 defense capability... And that is with ALL needed skills to 5. Last time i checked that is no where enough to tank all lvl 4's so looking forward to seeing your tengu fitting.
adriaans Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak	Posted - 2011.03.15 12:16:00 - [110] My tengu tanks 194 dps or something and does every lvl 4 just fine, why you would need more on a tengu is beyond me.... t2 launchers work just fine too, don't see why you wouldn't use them. --signature-- F.CS boost: Here Vid: Link
Dawn Black	Posted - 2011.03.15 13:34:00 - [111] Originally by: adriaans My tengu tanks 194 dps or something and does every lvl 4 just fine, why you would need more on a tengu is beyond me.... t2 launchers work just fine too, don't see why you wouldn't use them. Let's hope you never ever get webbed then.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.15 14:32:00 - [112] always shoot aggrod elite frigs as your 3rd/4th alvo in any mission. You will find them to be instapopped/take 1k damage for no reason from fury missiles.
Dawn Black	Posted - 2011.03.15 14:43:00 - [113] tbh have hardly ever seen them instapop.. usually takes up to 3 volleys... this is with perfect missile skills btw AND some implants.. but nvm.. risking a 1+ bil ship with a tank that can barely hold, leave no room for 1 sec of not paying attention doesn't sound like a good thing anyways.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.15 15:12:00 - [114] Quote: Machariel on the other hand is good in lots-of-ships missions, like silence the informant and angel extravaganza, which has low natural isk/hour. Depending on both your skills and the agent's quality and location. There's 3 variables there.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.15 15:36:00 - [115] ceterus paribus
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.15 20:55:00 - [116] Originally by: AristotleOnassis ceterus paribus So you have to get every variable in your favor to generate as much isk as you claim., and as you said, all things equal... However, the real lesson here is that only Indiana Jones makes EVERY saving throw. Not you, sorry mate.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2011.03.15 21:39:00 - [117] Originally by: Dawn Black Originally by: adriaans My tengu tanks 194 dps or something and does every lvl 4 just fine, why you would need more on a tengu is beyond me.... t2 launchers work just fine too, don't see why you wouldn't use them. Let's hope you never ever get webbed then. ab tengu is faster than webbing frigs. well their non mwd speed at least, and they turn their mwds off well out of webrange, so effectively you shouldn't get webbed. and even if you do get webbed the bit of tank you do have should easily last long enough to kill the webbing frig. spider drones are the only real threat, and well, they are pretty rare.
adriaans Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak	Posted - 2011.03.15 21:40:00 - [118] tbh most of the time I don't even use the shield booster, the AB tanks everything, webbers are 1-2 volleyed just fine. and even 2-3 webbers and it's still fine, only spider drones and 5-6 webbers means you need a tank. manual flying with high transversal combined with high speed and low sig radious is all thats needed. --signature-- F.CS boost: Here Vid: Link
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.16 00:13:00 - [119] Quote: So you have to get every variable in your favor to generate as much isk as you claim., and as you said, all things equal... Are you saying that someone with caldari offensive subsystem I should make as much isk as i do? :) That only adds complexity. My point is to only say , its easy to hit 200, even 500m isk/hour as long as you long for it. If your skill is subpar, no social skills, cant manufacture items, and no trade skills, thats for you to improve on. Not for me to discount on my calculations of my isk/hour.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.16 01:19:00 - [120] Edited by: Cipher Jones on 16/03/2011 01:19:46 Originally by: AristotleOnassis Quote: So you have to get every variable in your favor to generate as much isk as you claim., and as you said, all things equal... Are you saying that someone with caldari offensive subsystem I should make as much isk as i do? :) That only adds complexity. My point is to only say , its easy to hit 200, even 500m isk/hour as long as you long for it. If your skill is subpar, no social skills, cant manufacture items, and no trade skills, thats for you to improve on. Not for me to discount on my calculations of my isk/hour. What I am saying is that you do not control all of the variables that contribute to making the maximum amount of money over time. Therefore "longing" has nothing to do with being able to sustain your money to time ratio.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.16 02:08:00 - [121] Why wouldnt I have the control over my agents quality, location, and my skills?
Dawn Black	Posted - 2011.03.16 11:18:00 - [122] Unless you are controlling the low secs, use fighter support and have a few other chars to rotate through missions your isk claims appear to be.. err... EXTREMELY optimistic..... So e.g. sacrificing DPS for unprobability etc increasing the time quiet a bit.. So in all optimal cercumstances i would even say ... ah well.. nvm.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.16 11:45:00 - [123] Tengu never sacrifice gank for unprobeability. They can be unprobeable with 6 launchers 2 rigor 2's, and 4 bcu's no problem.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.16 16:05:00 - [124] Originally by: AristotleOnassis Why wouldnt I have the control over my agents quality, location, and my skills? Lol, don't play stupid. You don't control who is in local, you don't control the amount of LP items on the market, you don't control free amnufacturing slots, you don't control the tag market. .
Astriell	Posted - 2011.03.16 16:39:00 - [125] Originally by: AristotleOnassis The game plan, is to reject low natural isk/hour mission (look at the excel in the first page, most missions are less then 10 minutes) , which i call the top-50%-acceptable-missions , which is where the tengu excels If you are rejecting all the low isk/hour missions then you are either losing standing like crazy and won't be able to do lvl 4s anymore or you are spending a lot of time hoping between agents which you are not accounting for.
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.16 18:56:00 - [126] Originally by: Astriell If you are rejecting all the low isk/hour missions then you are either losing standing like crazy and won't be able to do lvl 4s anymore or you are spending a lot of time hoping between agents which you are not accounting for. The trick is to get your faction standing high enough to use the agent instead of relying on your corporation standing. Declining a mission hits your faction standing for a tiny amount, allowing you to decline a lot of missions. The hard part getting your faction standing that high though. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2011.03.16 20:40:00 - [127] Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: AristotleOnassis Why wouldnt I have the control over my agents quality, location, and my skills? Lol, don't play stupid. You don't control who is in local, you don't control the amount of LP items on the market, you don't control free amnufacturing slots, you don't control the tag market. no, but you can control enough of the other factors that those things don't matter much, plus most of those factors are pretty stable.
Malcanis Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.16 20:42:00 - [128] Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Astriell If you are rejecting all the low isk/hour missions then you are either losing standing like crazy and won't be able to do lvl 4s anymore or you are spending a lot of time hoping between agents which you are not accounting for. The trick is to get your faction standing high enough to use the agent instead of relying on your corporation standing. Declining a mission hits your faction standing for a tiny amount, allowing you to decline a lot of missions. The hard part getting your faction standing that high though. It also helps a lot if your storyline agent is in the same corp as your main agent. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.16 22:19:00 - [129] Quote: You don't control who is in local, you don't control the amount of LP items on the market, you don't control free amnufacturing slots, you don't control the tag market. Local - Of course i can. No matter how you blob my local, my ship is unprobeable. my ship has 3 sec allign time, and my system i mission in has 3 to 4 entrances. i NEVER stop playing just because local is bloated. :) Amount of LP items in the market - Of course i can, i can produce 6 different high LP items at high isk/lP Free manufacturing slots - Of course i can, Its a border station, its always empty. If its filled, i just have to wait another hour before calling rf freight Tag market - Of course i can. Its called MONOPOLY. Its also called cost- past through, which IS happening for all the items i produce :)
Songbird Gallente T.I.E. Inc.	Posted - 2011.03.17 06:50:00 - [130] Why only trade? I've talked with people (in the trade channels) who tell me they log in for an hour or so, put up their orders. Log out. 5 bil daily on weekends, for an hour of trading. Less for weekdays but still. As an added bonus you can get your life back and don't have to poop while missioning with a laptop. But as people say - no accounting for taste - if you like to max out your income from missions by all means :) I have to say - my char has 20m sp in missiles and tengu is maxed out and still I can't finish missions as fast as you do. Respect
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.17 10:00:00 - [131] dood. if you are large alliance accountaints with trillions of iskies, of course you can make good money doing that. However, i only have a bit over 100b of liquid isk. I dont think i can make 5b in 1 hour sitting Secondly, my argument is, if i have the ability to make 5 billion in one hour of sitting, i would have made more isk/hour to spend the same 1 hour missioning at the same time ie: 5b+ one hour of isk missioning.
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.17 10:09:00 - [132] Originally by: AristotleOnassis I dont think i can make 5b in 1 hour sitting But you're not entirely sure, am I right?
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2011.03.17 15:15:00 - [133] Could you post the fitting you use on your tengu?
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.17 16:03:00 - [134] Originally by: AristotleOnassis Quote: You don't control who is in local, you don't control the amount of LP items on the market, you don't control free amnufacturing slots, you don't control the tag market. Local - Of course i can. No matter how you blob my local, my ship is unprobeable. my ship has 3 sec allign time, and my system i mission in has 3 to 4 entrances. i NEVER stop playing just because local is bloated. :) Amount of LP items in the market - Of course i can, i can produce 6 different high LP items at high isk/lP Free manufacturing slots - Of course i can, Its a border station, its always empty. If its filled, i just have to wait another hour before calling rf freight Tag market - Of course i can. Its called MONOPOLY. Its also called cost- past through, which IS happening for all the items i produce :) lol. who cares if your ship is unprobable? Your Mission isnt. You cant produce 6 high ticket items in the same area. If you have to wait an hour and you were making 200 mil an hour, you are now making 100 mil an hour. If you had a monopoly you would make far more money from it than missioning could ever bring you. .
Dawn Black	Posted - 2011.03.17 17:44:00 - [135] Edited by: Dawn Black on 17/03/2011 17:45:01 Well you are lucky to make 1000/1100 ISK/LP now with trade alts all over the place and endless dropping prices by 0.01 so any discussion about 100 or 200 mil is void anyways as the average pilot will never get close. Sure 1 or 2 may still find some stupid fool willing to overpay for his stuff but that is not average.
SpyGirl	Posted - 2011.03.17 21:11:00 - [136] Originally by: Dawn Black Edited by: Dawn Black on 17/03/2011 17:45:01 Well you are lucky to make 1000/1100 ISK/LP now with trade alts all over the place and endless dropping prices by 0.01 so any discussion about 100 or 200 mil is void anyways as the average pilot will never get close. Sure 1 or 2 may still find some stupid fool willing to overpay for his stuff but that is not average. He makes 400m/hr, for 10 hours a day, please do not question him. Thanks.
Dawn Black	Posted - 2011.03.17 21:27:00 - [137] Originally by: SpyGirl Originally by: Dawn Black Edited by: Dawn Black on 17/03/2011 17:45:01 Well you are lucky to make 1000/1100 ISK/LP now with trade alts all over the place and endless dropping prices by 0.01 so any discussion about 100 or 200 mil is void anyways as the average pilot will never get close. Sure 1 or 2 may still find some stupid fool willing to overpay for his stuff but that is not average. He makes 400m/hr, for 10 hours a day, please do not question him. Thanks. Ofc.. and i'm George Clooney
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives	Posted - 2011.03.17 21:45:00 - [138] Originally by: Cipher Jones lol. who cares if your ship is unprobable? Your Mission isnt. If his ship's unprobable, and he isn't using drones, how can he be scanned down? ?
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.03.17 21:46:00 - [139] Edited by: Patient 2428190 on 17/03/2011 21:50:48 Edited by: Patient 2428190 on 17/03/2011 21:50:30 Originally by: Dawn Black Well you are lucky to make 1000/1100 ISK/LP now with trade alts all over the place and endless dropping prices by 0.01 so any discussion about 100 or 200 mil is void anyways as the average pilot will never get close. Sure 1 or 2 may still find some stupid fool willing to overpay for his stuff but that is not average. Flawless logic there, assuming just because you can only get ~1K ISK/LP, nobody else can get higher than that. Originally by: Cipher Jones lol. who cares if your ship is unprobable? Your Mission isnt. I'd love to see you try to explain how you think a mission is probable. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
Maverick2011	Posted - 2011.03.17 22:41:00 - [140] what a normal human can do per hour in level 4 missions with a maelstrom/vargur? tengu is better than these 2?
Heanna	Posted - 2011.03.17 23:25:00 - [141] AristotleOnassis What can a normal eve pilot take from this thread, I certainly feel inferior as I can only pull about 25-30M an hour (granted thats a CNR in high sec, I'm training for a tengu to blitz on my mission runner :) ) So what should we do -> unprobable tengu and mission in low sec?
Darth Zarthinon	Posted - 2011.03.18 06:32:00 - [142] Tengu can't tank. Right. Had one in a 5/10 in high with subs to 4 no amp sub and 2 small b shield boosters and 3 bs, 20 cr, and 12 dd serpentis were pounding away while I sat there with no speed tank laughing. They couldn't break the tank. No loss to dps with fit and easily could have with max skills and a better fit while using speed tanked even more. Got bored and popped the scramming frigs and warped away to go live in a wormhole.
Dawn Black	Posted - 2011.03.18 08:20:00 - [143] Originally by: Patient 2428190 Edited by: Patient 2428190 on 17/03/2011 21:50:48 Edited by: Patient 2428190 on 17/03/2011 21:50:30 Originally by: Dawn Black Well you are lucky to make 1000/1100 ISK/LP now with trade alts all over the place and endless dropping prices by 0.01 so any discussion about 100 or 200 mil is void anyways as the average pilot will never get close. Sure 1 or 2 may still find some stupid fool willing to overpay for his stuff but that is not average. Flawless logic there, assuming just because you can only get ~1K ISK/LP, nobody else can get higher than that. Actually it isn't too flawed.. I didn't say nobody couldn't.. I said, the average pilot will probably not be able to do it. Again unless you have 12 trade alts all over the place and spend hours and hours undercutting and browsing the markets... But then.. add that time to the ISK/per hour plz... so i'd expect it to go down very fast :)
Crabs Collector	Posted - 2011.03.19 23:01:00 - [144] Excellent wishfull thinking!
oldmanst4r Minmatar oldmanst4r's Corporation	Posted - 2011.03.20 00:44:00 - [145] I decided you were trolling after the pooping while missioning comment, regardless of whether or not you actually make this kind of isk from missions. Originally by: CCP Shadow snip Castration successful. Shadow.
Straight Edged	Posted - 2011.03.20 02:20:00 - [146] Quote: Actually it isn't too flawed.. I didn't say nobody couldn't.. I said, the average pilot will probably not be able to do it. Again unless you have 12 trade alts all over the place and spend hours and hours undercutting and browsing the markets... But then.. add that time to the ISK/per hour plz... so i'd expect it to go down very fast :) Mission running is the most deep gameplay in EVE. Tons of research have been made by individual players. Try out every corp in the universe. Check their stores. run some. Find good web sites. 3-5K isk/LP could be done quite easily as long as you do enough research, and you could do it in large quantities (millions of millions of LP in volume) The poop argument was simple. Every nay sayer (mostly gallente, as they are known for being bad at mission running), says my isk/hour should be reduced, as i need to poop, i need to eat, i need to sleep, and i need to "take a break" by wasting time in Jita. Im just saying that, if you really want to discount all these factors, you can poop while playing, eat while playing, and never take a break and get the isk/hour. Its too rigorous to discount pooping time in isk/hour. Sure, i poop twice a week, and theoratically if i make 300m isk/hour, i need to waste 20minutes for every 25200 minutes for pooping. But really. i cant really give a damn.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2011.03.20 04:23:00 - [147] Originally by: Dawn Black Edited by: Dawn Black on 17/03/2011 17:45:01 Well you are lucky to make 1000/1100 ISK/LP now with trade alts all over the place and endless dropping prices by 0.01 so any discussion about 100 or 200 mil is void anyways as the average pilot will never get close. Sure 1 or 2 may still find some stupid fool willing to overpay for his stuff but that is not average. most tags sell at or around npc price and hardly have any competition. so
Millia Severasse	Posted - 2011.03.20 07:08:00 - [148] Originally by: Straight Edged Quote: Actually it isn't too flawed.. I didn't say nobody couldn't.. I said, the average pilot will probably not be able to do it. Again unless you have 12 trade alts all over the place and spend hours and hours undercutting and browsing the markets... But then.. add that time to the ISK/per hour plz... so i'd expect it to go down very fast :) Mission running is the most deep gameplay in EVE. Tons of research have been made by individual players. Try out every corp in the universe. Check their stores. run some. Find good web sites. 3-5K isk/LP could be done quite easily as long as you do enough research, and you could do it in large quantities (millions of millions of LP in volume) The poop argument was simple. Every nay sayer (mostly gallente, as they are known for being bad at mission running), says my isk/hour should be reduced, as i need to poop, i need to eat, i need to sleep, and i need to "take a break" by wasting time in Jita. Im just saying that, if you really want to discount all these factors, you can poop while playing, eat while playing, and never take a break and get the isk/hour. Its too rigorous to discount pooping time in isk/hour. Sure, i poop twice a week, and theoratically if i make 300m isk/hour, i need to waste 20minutes for every 25200 minutes for pooping. But really. i cant really give a damn. 0/10
Dawn Black	Posted - 2011.03.20 10:57:00 - [149] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Dawn Black Edited by: Dawn Black on 17/03/2011 17:45:01 Well you are lucky to make 1000/1100 ISK/LP now with trade alts all over the place and endless dropping prices by 0.01 so any discussion about 100 or 200 mil is void anyways as the average pilot will never get close. Sure 1 or 2 may still find some stupid fool willing to overpay for his stuff but that is not average. most tags sell at or around npc price and hardly have any competition. so I highly doubt the few taggs here and there for every 8th mission will make you hundruds of millions an hour especially when there is so much competition on them. Also this involves actually looting (and or salvaging) which according to a lot of people is a waste of time. Me, i'm starting to think more and more that EVE itself is a waste of time.
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.20 13:03:00 - [150] Originally by: Millia Severasse Originally by: Straight Edged Quote: Actually it isn't too flawed.. I didn't say nobody couldn't.. I said, the average pilot will probably not be able to do it. Again unless you have 12 trade alts all over the place and spend hours and hours undercutting and browsing the markets... But then.. add that time to the ISK/per hour plz... so i'd expect it to go down very fast :) Mission running is the most deep gameplay in EVE. Tons of research have been made by individual players. Try out every corp in the universe. Check their stores. run some. Find good web sites. 3-5K isk/LP could be done quite easily as long as you do enough research, and you could do it in large quantities (millions of millions of LP in volume) The poop argument was simple. Every nay sayer (mostly gallente, as they are known for being bad at mission running), says my isk/hour should be reduced, as i need to poop, i need to eat, i need to sleep, and i need to "take a break" by wasting time in Jita. Im just saying that, if you really want to discount all these factors, you can poop while playing, eat while playing, and never take a break and get the isk/hour. Its too rigorous to discount pooping time in isk/hour. Sure, i poop twice a week, and theoratically if i make 300m isk/hour, i need to waste 20minutes for every 25200 minutes for pooping. But really. i cant really give a damn. 0/10 You're too generous.
dexington Caldari Baconoration	Posted - 2011.03.20 16:30:00 - [151] @AristotleOnassis I was looking are you spreadsheet, and i don't really understand how you are getting close to 250M isk/h. On average you use around 10 min all included pr missions and on average get 10K LP, 60K LP/h. What is that average you make on isk rewards pr missions?, and what is you average bounty income pr mission?. The information may be in the spreadsheet, but i wouµd'nt see it.
Sixtina KL The Shoop Group	Posted - 2011.03.20 22:10:00 - [152] Quote: I'm not sure how to respond to this post! Maybe if I dismiss him as one of those 'trolls' I heard so much about, everything will be okay. ^ This thread __________________________________
oldmanst4r Minmatar oldmanst4r's Corporation	Posted - 2011.03.20 22:18:00 - [153] Originally by: Straight Edged Quote: Actually it isn't too flawed.. I didn't say nobody couldn't.. I said, the average pilot will probably not be able to do it. Again unless you have 12 trade alts all over the place and spend hours and hours undercutting and browsing the markets... But then.. add that time to the ISK/per hour plz... so i'd expect it to go down very fast :) Mission running is the most deep gameplay in EVE. Tons of research have been made by individual players. Try out every corp in the universe. Check their stores. run some. Find good web sites. 3-5K isk/LP could be done quite easily as long as you do enough research, and you could do it in large quantities (millions of millions of LP in volume) The poop argument was simple. Every nay sayer (mostly gallente, as they are known for being bad at mission running), says my isk/hour should be reduced, as i need to poop, i need to eat, i need to sleep, and i need to "take a break" by wasting time in Jita. Im just saying that, if you really want to discount all these factors, you can poop while playing, eat while playing, and never take a break and get the isk/hour. Its too rigorous to discount pooping time in isk/hour. Sure, i poop twice a week, and theoratically if i make 300m isk/hour, i need to waste 20minutes for every 25200 minutes for pooping. But really. i cant really give a damn. You really should be pooping more than twice a week and it shouldn't take twenty minutes. You need to eat more fiber and get some exercise. Originally by: CCP Shadow snip Castration successful. Shadow.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.21 01:27:00 - [154] Quote: @AristotleOnassis I was looking are you spreadsheet, and i don't really understand how you are getting close to 250M isk/h. On average you use around 10 min all included pr missions and on average get 10K LP, 60K LP/h. What is that average you make on isk rewards pr missions?, and what is you average bounty income pr mission?. The information may be in the spreadsheet, but i could'nt see it. my weighted average mission completion time is 6.2 minutes (at the bottom) (all included) This translates to 90-100K LP per hour (around 180-500m isk/hour, depending on conversion) Pure isk/hour is approximately 50-100m depending on mission from rewards and bounties the weighted average numbers are all on the line below the mission list.
Crabs Collector	Posted - 2011.03.21 07:30:00 - [155] Soooo, in average the shooting part take syou only 5,2 minutes (warping around takes a minute), and those give you average of 10k LP anyway? What do you mission with, one of those GM pods?
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.21 07:35:00 - [156] Please take a look at the attached file in the OP for individual mission completion times and LP payout. And no. I only spend on average 0-4minutes shooting, and 2-3 minutes accepting mission, undocking, traveling, moving, jumping gates, ETC
dexington Caldari Baconoration	Posted - 2011.03.21 13:51:00 - [157] Originally by: AristotleOnassis my weighted average mission completion time is 6.2 minutes (at the bottom) (all included) This translates to 90-100K LP per hour (around 180-500m isk/hour, depending on conversion) Pure isk/hour is approximately 50-100m depending on mission from rewards and bounties the weighted average numbers are all on the line below the mission list. Quote: My average completion time is 6.4 minutes , the variance is plus minus 0.07 minutes. Average time spent traveling/accepting mission/rejecting mission/jumping gates/undocking is 4.2 minutes. Does that not make the total time spend on one missions 10 min, on average. If so the LP/h would be closer to 60K.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.21 14:01:00 - [158] 6.4 minutes =/= 10 minutes.
dexington Caldari Baconoration	Posted - 2011.03.21 14:07:00 - [159] Originally by: AristotleOnassis 6.4 minutes =/= 10 minutes. 6 min + 4 min = 10 min, or are you on average able to complete the mission in 2 min, and the 4 min travel, etc is included in the 6 min.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.21 14:10:00 - [160] 2-3 minutes shooting 3-4 minutes traveling. please look at the spreadsheet in the OP
dexington Caldari Baconoration	Posted - 2011.03.21 14:42:00 - [161] So you are basically says that if you blitz missions, and try to sell the lp for 5 times the going rate you can make 250M isk/h. Okay, i guess i understand why most people in this tread are saying it does not work. With a scheme like that i would stop doing the missions and just buy the lp items of the trade hubs, seeing how you are able to sell them a double the price of everyone else, why then go through all the trouble of doing the missions.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.21 14:48:00 - [162] what are you talking about? please read the first post. 153m isk/hour at 1K isk/lp - Liquidate Infinite LP / week 246m isk/hour at 2K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 10-20m LP / week 338m isk/hour at 3K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 10-20m LP / week 430m isk/hour at 4K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 5-10m LP / week 522m isk/hour at 5K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 2-3m LP / week at 5x isk/lp it is 522m isk/hour you cannot "buy" the item and expect to make profit, as the item itself already counts in the lowest-large-sell-order each ingredient of the item, ie, if you buy the item from the market, its already sold at the premium of whatever isk/lp, nullifying any gains. u cant interchange items to lp into items nor u can buy lp from players. nor is letting everyone know what item to produce, is going to be able to retain your profit margins in the long run. secrecy, prudency, and god speed is needed in taking oppurtunities yourself.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.21 15:19:00 - [163] Saying you can do something outrageous that you could prove with a few screenshots or one video and then not posting them is in fact trolling. .
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.21 15:58:00 - [164] please look at the example, the 2nd attachment in the first page. also please look at the first link to the old thread, on further data and calculations
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.21 16:31:00 - [165] Originally by: AristotleOnassis please look at the example, the 2nd attachment in the first page. also please look at the first link to the old thread, on further data and calculations I speak for most of when I say we could give 2 ****s about data and calculations when you could simply squash the beef with screenshots (yet don't). .
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.21 16:45:00 - [166] Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 21/03/2011 16:46:35 Quote: when you could simply squash the beef with screenshots please look at the second link on the first page the 1620110306115017.jpg for the example.
Frau Klaps Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.03.21 16:56:00 - [167] lol this thread. 10/10 op ---
dexington Caldari Baconoration	Posted - 2011.03.21 17:19:00 - [168] Originally by: AristotleOnassis Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 21/03/2011 16:46:35 Quote: when you could simply squash the beef with screenshots please look at the second link on the first page the 1620110306115017.jpg for the example. The LP gained from that hours is what?, like 75K. If 100K LP/h is a sure thing, why are you then using a screen shot where you are 25% below average?
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.22 00:19:00 - [169] Please understand about the law of average Its an example screenshot. On how many missions that can be completed in a single hour. LP/hour is mostly about what missions do you draw. Because missions given are random, your LP/hour is also random. My 100K LP/hour calculation is obtained from running EACH MISSION ONCE, IE: equal chance to get every mission. that does not mean u are going to get 100K lp/hour every time, as your lp fate pretty much depends on the dice roll. If i were to draw more of the 400m+ isk/hour missions (on 2K isk/lp), like the assault, recon, smash suppliers, damsel distress, blockade, i will get more isk/hour. These missions only take up to 5 mins each Its just by luck that i drew 200m- isk/hour missions (on 2K isk/lp). If i go back home this weekend i can probably keep on doing missions until i draw a set of 140K LP/hour of missions. But whats the point? i gain nothing from it.
Jackie Fisher Syrkos Technologies	Posted - 2011.03.22 09:58:00 - [170] Originally by: AristotleOnassis 153m isk/hour at 1K isk/lp - Liquidate Infinite LP / week 246m isk/hour at 2K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 10-20m LP / week 338m isk/hour at 3K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 10-20m LP / week 430m isk/hour at 4K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 5-10m LP / week 522m isk/hour at 5K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 2-3m LP / week So that's c.61 mil ISK + 91 mil LP per hour. Originally by: AristotleOnassis My 100K LP/hour calculation is obtained from running EACH MISSION ONCE, IE: equal chance to get every mission. that does not mean u are going to get 100K lp/hour every time, as your lp fate pretty much depends on the dice roll. So are the figures you quote in your original post actual measured typical/average figures or a peak amount you could earn if you consistently got only the good missions? Joint Venture Conglomerate
Holdout	Posted - 2011.03.22 13:38:00 - [171] I can't believe this thread is still going on... /bump
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.22 13:44:00 - [172] isk/hour = isk per hour of running each mission in the list once (ie: assumption is equal distribution of missions) time = average time to run a single mission (total minutes running all missions/number of missions)
Qui Shon	Posted - 2011.03.22 14:09:00 - [173] Edited by: Qui Shon on 22/03/2011 14:14:50 I no longer care about isk/h from missioning, so long since I did a mission. BUT, this thread did give me the urge to go back and finish my ->9.9 standings, seems this would be the fastest way to blitz for standings as well. At the bottom of your first pic you list 11 missions in one hour, correct? Hmm, I wonder what could be done if you could not decline missions, but you could now do low lp missions that were still blitz-able. If I get that done I kinda want to repair my Gal/Min standing enough so they stop shooting at me. Prolly won't get either done though.
C Gabriel Caldari 1st. Pariah Malefactor corp. The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2011.03.22 15:07:00 - [174] Originally by: pussnheels no offense but is running missions with a stopwatch and a spreadsheet really that much fun Is mission running any fun at all???!?!
rumncock	Posted - 2011.03.23 07:46:00 - [175] made four million $ per hour today at the atm, would have been more but there was a que.
Milken Gekko	Posted - 2011.03.23 10:24:00 - [176] Originally by: C Gabriel Originally by: pussnheels no offense but is running missions with a stopwatch and a spreadsheet really that much fun Is mission running any fun at all???!?! Like Yathzee said... EVE is just another job you have to pay for.
oldmanst4r Minmatar oldmanst4r's Corporation	Posted - 2011.03.23 18:39:00 - [177] Originally by: rumn** made four million $ per hour today at the atm, would have been more but there was a que. I make more $/hr from my illegal organ harvesting business, $/organ conversion rate is pretty good right now. Originally by:** CCP Shadow snip Castration successful. Shadow.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.23 18:51:00 - [178] Originally by: AristotleOnassis Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 21/03/2011 16:46:35 Quote: when you could simply squash the beef with screenshots please look at the second link on the first page the 1620110306115017.jpg for the example. That in now way shape or form indicates your actual hourly income, you know it, I know it, we all know it. .
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.24 10:14:00 - [179] Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: AristotleOnassis Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 21/03/2011 16:46:35 Quote: when you could simply squash the beef with screenshots please look at the second link on the first page the 1620110306115017.jpg for the example. That in now way shape or form indicates your actual hourly income, you know it, I know it, we all know it. Sshh, maybe he'll go away.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.24 11:35:00 - [180] Im sorry. of course i know how much isk/hour im churning. Just finished another round of 1m LP. took me 11 hours of grinding
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.24 11:40:00 - [181] Originally by: oldmanst4r Originally by: rumn**** made four million $ per hour today at the atm, would have been more but there was a que. I make more $/hr from my illegal organ harvesting business, $/organ conversion rate is pretty good right now. I cant wait, I'm getting direct deposit. I used to make $1000 an hour because it took me an hour to pick up my paycheck and deposit it. Now it will only take 5 minutes, so ill be making $12000 an hour. .
Shurikane	Posted - 2011.03.24 13:58:00 - [182] OP, would you mind sharing your Excel file with us? I'd like to punch in my own numbers to see what I could come up with on my end.
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives	Posted - 2011.03.24 14:21:00 - [183] Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: AristotleOnassis please look at the example, the 2nd attachment in the first page. also please look at the first link to the old thread, on further data and calculations I speak for most of when I say we could give 2 ****s about data and calculations when you could simply squash the beef with screenshots (yet don't). So what's your answer to the "probable mission" question I posed before, which you now conveniently ignore - exposing your trollery for all to see ?
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.24 14:46:00 - [184] he probably never stepped into low sec before to know about probing people down. Anyways as i said. the picture is to show, even with horrible isk/hour missions (i got 7 low isk/hour missions out of 11) , you can easily get 75000k-80000k lp in a single hour. Roll the assault, blockade, damsel, smash sup,recon 1 or the other 400m+ isk/hour missions it will push you upwards 100k lp in a single hour easily. good luck.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.24 15:02:00 - [185] Originally by: Bumblefck Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: AristotleOnassis please look at the example, the 2nd attachment in the first page. also please look at the first link to the old thread, on further data and calculations I speak for most of when I say we could give 2 ****s about data and calculations when you could simply squash the beef with screenshots (yet don't). So what's your answer to the "probable mission" question I posed before, which you now conveniently ignore - exposing your trollery for all to see 1. this thread is a blatant troll thread to begin with. 2. finding "unprobable" mission runners is not impossible, and you can find out how to do it quite easily. If I am trolling, prove me wrong with a screenshot showing the income claimed by the OP. Otherwise, you are on the losing end of the stick. If it was court you would lose. If it was college you would fail. If it was high school you would get detention for trolling. If it was Jr. High school your girlfriend would take me to the 8th grade dinner dance and leave you at home. .
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.24 15:12:00 - [186] Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 24/03/2011 15:13:26 please click the first link (top of the page) to me, i dont really care how you feel about proof. i shown two example screenshot, its fully enough for me. the first link, shows how even no matter how many screenshots i posted, people kept asking more and more. they wanted my ****ing full API key, my password, my account, like wth. to me, im not really interested in showing newbies (who dont even know the probing system) exactly how its done, afterall, there are many trade secrets involved. system, item, and my routes is a well kept secret for myself. But im pretty sure, for avid mission runner who at least know how to mission run , it will guide them. because as long as u know the good stuff, 550m isk/hour is very easy. consistently. Pirate LP? Faction LP? 0.0 space? all of this are bew sheet for isk/hour. Between having only 20% of the potential isk/hour, and the horrible politics involved, i just want to guide mission runners that there are better place to live in. high school? court? too bad. Im passed all that already :)
Ratter Locater	Posted - 2011.03.24 15:18:00 - [187] I wonder if CCP has investigated the OP for RMT. No single human being has a need for that much isk (without RMTing), mental illness aside.
Sixtina KL The Shoop Group	Posted - 2011.03.24 16:17:00 - [188] Originally by: Ratter Locater I wonder if CCP has investigated the OP for RMT. No single human being has a need for that much isk (without RMTing), mental illness aside. Quick, let's ban everyone in nullsec and let God sort 'em out! __________________________________
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.24 16:56:00 - [189] Originally by: Sixtina KL Originally by: Ratter Locater I wonder if CCP has investigated the OP for RMT. No single human being has a need for that much isk (without RMTing), mental illness aside. Quick, let's ban everyone in nullsec and let God sort 'em out! Well, as it stands, the second part of your suggestion is in place. Resulting, funnily enough, in nothing.
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives	Posted - 2011.03.24 17:46:00 - [190] Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Bumblefck Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: AristotleOnassis please look at the example, the 2nd attachment in the first page. also please look at the first link to the old thread, on further data and calculations I speak for most of when I say we could give 2 ****s about data and calculations when you could simply squash the beef with screenshots (yet don't). So what's your answer to the "probable mission" question I posed before, which you now conveniently ignore - exposing your trollery for all to see 1. this thread is a blatant troll thread to begin with. 2. finding "unprobable" mission runners is not impossible, and you can find out how to do it quite easily. If I am trolling, prove me wrong with a screenshot showing the income claimed by the OP. Otherwise, you are on the losing end of the stick. If it was court you would lose. If it was college you would fail. If it was high school you would get detention for trolling. If it was Jr. High school your girlfriend would take me to the 8th grade dinner dance and leave you at home. I don't care about the rest of what you posted, I'm only taking issue with the fact that you said missions were probable without probing down the player's ship concerned. ?
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.24 20:06:00 - [191] Originally by: Bumblefck I don't care about the rest of what you posted, I'm only taking issue with the fact that you said missions were probable without probing down the player's ship concerned. Finding people at safe spots using the directional scanner. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.24 20:20:00 - [192] Originally by: Cipher Jones 1. this thread is a blatant troll thread to begin with. What is so damn difficult to understand? Step 1. Research the lp store items lp to isk conversion rates. Use faction standings instead of corporate standings to cherry pick the best lp to time missions. Blitz those missions. Run low-sec missions for the lp boost. Use remote sell/buy skills. Use Red Frog freight to move items. Step 2. Profit! If you can't tell the difference between the Underpants Gnomes and Victoria's Secret, then you shouldn't be commenting. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
BlackSparrowHawk	Posted - 2011.03.24 20:28:00 - [193] Edited by: BlackSparrowHawk on 24/03/2011 20:28:19 Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Bumblefck I don't care about the rest of what you posted, I'm only taking issue with the fact that you said missions were probable without probing down the player's ship concerned. Finding people at safe spots using the directional scanner. Point is that method isn't really practical since most of it is done through guess work. First of all you have to scan your way until you've reached 14AU (in this case you will have to find the target in 5 seconds minimum! which is impossible as that method further list more steps to the procedure . And i say 5 seconds because the target will be using his d scan and i use mine every 5-8 secs). Second of all the procedure then continues to say that once you've got a rough direction of target to warp to an object in that line. You wont find this ideal case in all scenarios. There may be no object to warp to. And after ALL this time the target still hasnt noticed you on dscan i'm sure he'll notice you as whizz pass making your bookmark. That method you posted may sound logical but its highly unpracticle which will only rarely succeed.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.25 04:31:00 - [194] btw. just wanted to point out that Quote: lol. who cares if your ship is unprobable? Your Mission isnt. this is what cypher jones said. As i said. He probably never stepped into low all his life. Anyways, there is a rumour that quality agent is going to be variable depending on how often missions are going to be used. im pretty lucky, as my missions are always admin/legal etc, which means Q20 in more hubs :) Its a really nice plus to have 8.6+ faction standing with every faction across two toons.
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives	Posted - 2011.03.25 07:20:00 - [195] Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Bumblefck I don't care about the rest of what you posted, I'm only taking issue with the fact that you said missions were probable without probing down the player's ship concerned. Finding people at safe spots using the directional scanner. Thanks for pointing that out. But sweet Jesus, who would really use that method? It sounds so time consuming. I wonder if most people wouldn't say "Oh dear, this person is unprobable - better move on to the next target." ?
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.03.25 07:56:00 - [196] Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Bumblefck I don't care about the rest of what you posted, I'm only taking issue with the fact that you said missions were probable without probing down the player's ship concerned. Finding people at safe spots using the directional scanner. Its one thing to do that with player safespots, as they tend to be made on the fly warping from something to something else. Its another thing entirely to find somebody in a random generated safespot in system, and they will only be there for 5-15 minute. While unprobable ships have been found before, never that quickly. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
Chingyz Caldari The Ankou Raiden.	Posted - 2011.03.25 15:31:00 - [197] I do believe it's possible to make 522 mil per hour, however it's not 522 mil pr hour of mission running. AristotleOnassis actually have pointed it out himself that it's not done through mission running. Thing is that he makes this amount doing missions, trading and manufacturing. LP is really worth nothing untill it has been converted into something which really leaves income from missions being bounty and mission rewards. The value of LP depends on what you convert them into which has a lot to do with trading and manufacturing. Converting 30k LP into a 5 run BPC actually generates very different values depending on how you get the tags. Do you get them from Buy orders or sell orders maybe a combination. Now if you decide to manufacture based on that BPC then it again depends on where you get minerals and components from. TL:DR version. It is possible to make 522 mil pr hour, but it is not solely from mission running but a combination of mission running, trading and manufacturing.
Carthus Sondale Gallente Power and Water	Posted - 2011.03.26 14:04:00 - [198] Edited by: Carthus Sondale on 26/03/2011 14:06:20 Originally by: Chingyz I do believe it's possible to make 522 mil per hour, however it's not 522 mil pr hour of mission running. AristotleOnassis actually have pointed it out himself that it's not done through mission running. Thing is that he makes this amount doing missions, trading and manufacturing. LP is really worth nothing untill it has been converted into something which really leaves income from missions being bounty and mission rewards. The value of LP depends on what you convert them into which has a lot to do with trading and manufacturing. Converting 30k LP into a 5 run BPC actually generates very different values depending on how you get the tags. Do you get them from Buy orders or sell orders maybe a combination. Now if you decide to manufacture based on that BPC then it again depends on where you get minerals and components from. TL:DR version. It is possible to make 522 mil pr hour, but it is not solely from mission running but a combination of mission running, trading and manufacturing. And this is why threads like these aren't helpful, or don't really belong in this section of the forums. Every single thread with a sky-high isk/hour mission runner claim has a caveat attached to it, which is always "This works only if your LP is worth what I claim it's worth - and by the way, I can't reveal why my LP is worth as much as I say it is." That basically means that we have to trust the person creating the thread that they're telling us the truth about their LP conversion capability. We have no idea if they're even capable of converting the LP at the rates they claim. We also never will know, because nobody is going to tell us what they're selling, which means you're asking us to trust your LP conversion rates. Requiring us to trust your honesty is laughable - we don't trust anyone. At the end of the day, ISK/hour claims (including yours, OP) are almost all complete trash. If you're going to make one of these threads, at least learn from this guy's errors (and those of everyone else making ISK/hour threads) and give us what we actually care about hearing about, which is two things: 1. You run missions for 1 hour. What did your wallet start at? What was it at the end of that hour? Average all of your hours. 2. You run missions for 1 hour. How much LP did you have at the start? How much did you have at the end? Average all of your hours. We don't care about anything else. We don't care about your ridiculous claims and complex mathematical formulas and excel spreadsheets that you designed to prove to us that you're amazing and rich and awesome. Nobody cares - it's all trash to us. All we care about are those two things, and if you're actually trying to be helpful, that's all you'll give us. If you give us anything else, we're going to conclude (accurately) that you're trolling us. I found the OP interesting because it included bounty numbers and LP rewards. That was it, and for that information, I thank you. Everything else in your post is worthless, and I hope the responses you got in this thread have taught you why.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.26 15:08:00 - [199] Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 26/03/2011 15:09:14 I dont agree. 1) LP is a guaranteed reward 2) As i said. Let N be mission running times, as N goes to infinity, your isk/hour CONVERGES to the isk/hour i stated. Sure. the first hour i earn only 150m isk/hour. But on the 10th, 11th,12th --- etc onwards i earn 250m isk/hour. Hence as i run more and more missions, my isk/hour converges to 250m afterall, (15010+25099990)/100000 is darn near to 250m already. LP is a guaranteed reward. There is no reason to discount it. Just like isk wont pay off instantly (you need to buy items), LP also does not pay instantly. furthermore, even at 1K isk/lp it reaches 150m isk/hour which darn ****es over faction mish's, 0.0 mish's or wateva. The more research is done on better payoff, the better it gets. the isk/hour is limiteless
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.26 17:43:00 - [200] Originally by: Carthus Sondale And this is why threads like these aren't helpful, or don't really belong in this section of the forums. Every single thread with a sky-high isk/hour mission runner claim has a caveat attached to it, which is always "This works only if your LP is worth what I claim it's worth - and by the way, I can't reveal why my LP is worth as much as I say it is." That basically means that we have to trust the person creating the thread that they're telling us the truth about their LP conversion capability. We have no idea if they're even capable of converting the LP at the rates they claim. We also never will know, because nobody is going to tell us what they're selling, which means you're asking us to trust your LP conversion rates. Requiring us to trust your honesty is laughable - we don't trust anyone. Learn to spot check. Look at various lp items, see what they're going for on contracts and check the prices and quantity of tags available at the market hubs. A simple spreadsheet and some quick data can often determine if someone's numbers are in the ball park of reasonable. Quote: At the end of the day, ISK/hour claims (including yours, OP) are almost all complete trash. If you're going to make one of these threads, at least learn from this guy's errors (and those of everyone else making ISK/hour threads) Really? You didn't get much from the isk/hour threads? Here's what I learned: a) Faction standings allow you to cherry pick missions. You can literally decline dozens of missions in a row without losing access to your agent. This opens up the number of agents available to you because you can reliably use agents that don't always offer a lot of kill missions. b) Metrics. If you can't handle basic math, can't create simple spreadsheets or otherwise can't be bothered to track some basic information, then making gobs of isk/hour isn't for you. c) Elbow grease. The level of effort needed to pull off the isk/hours numbers requires a good bit of up front effort. You need to increase your faction standings, you need to research the lp items and what's currently selling, you need to be aware of the tag market, etc.. If you expect to jump in your ship and just start making gobs of isk, then the isk/hour threads aren't for you. d) This is an MMO, you can use other player's time to your advantage, such as using red frog freight. You don't have to be an OCD, hyper-optimizing min-maxer to benefit from the isk/hour threads. Just applying a few of the basic concepts presented in the isk/hour threads can dramatically increase your mission isk/hour efficiency. Quote: 1. You run missions for 1 hour. What did your wallet start at? What was it at the end of that hour? Average all of your hours. Which is another point that the critics seem to miss. Yes, there is overhead that cuts in the isk/hour numbers, but the OP has described some creative ways to minimize the overhead. More importantly, the overhead time doesn't increase at the same rate as missioning time. So the more missioning you do, the less impact overhead has on the isk/hour ratio. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
clixoras	Posted - 2011.03.26 18:09:00 - [201] This topic stole 15min of my life. Refund please. But in all seriousness, i kinda admire the OP with his perceveirence to convince people. I would've given up on p1 already. Ofcourse there are some flaws in his logic: 1. i can't see people (non chinese sweatshop at least) keeping this up for longer than 2 hours at a time. It's just... not fun. Athough OP said he was from malaysia, so, if being asian and all. Who knows.. (i don't like to generalize and believe individualism). 2. OP claims he has 100b, congrats. Even more reason to STOP doing what you're doing and move on. You've made your point (to yourselve because that's only what counts). Take you're knowledge from trading the LP and move on (altough, trading is even more boring, so i don't know what's better). 3. Continuing from one, OP had to invest a lot time in research / SP to come to the acclaimed isk/h. Perhaps he's an Einstein or something but you've got to include that somehow in your isk/h. Because.. if you compare that with other professions like trading. 80% is research, 20% is the actual work. Saying that i make 1b/h by trading doesn't paint the whole picture. 4. The whole discussion doesn't make any sense if it can't be reproduced. So, for the nay-sayers, take the (parts of) usual info from this topic and try for yourselves before you state it's impossible.
Alpha Constructor	Posted - 2011.03.30 08:23:00 - [202] Hai thurr, just a little input from a plexer: On my main i did about all plexes there are at least once. I compared the income vs time invested and taking into account the negative points on the various styles (i.e. nullsec ninja, member, lowsec ninja, pirate and ofc missions). To start with, i HATE missions and get pimples on my bloated butt from thinking of them, so that style is not for me. I enjoy plexes for the droprates of the various items, hence i consider myself a plexer. Now for the real point: The easiest, most liberate way of plexing i found is one ignored by most of the playerbase and therefore has almost no competition (why i don't mention which it is), meaning the income is only limited by the droprates. I make about 200-250mn per hour taking traveling, scanning, fighting and droprates into account, ignoring the extremas -> the "crapton of isk-drops". This is about the ceiling I found when it comes to solo account, solo ship plexing. TL;DR-> solo account/ship plexing with no boundries: 200-250mn/hr
Sabine Demsky Formidable Ops	Posted - 2011.03.30 15:47:00 - [203] lol takes me 30 minutes to do a 6/10 gurista plex, so when i get a combined drop of 2.1b ive really been making 4.2b an hour. Yay i can do math. i think.
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.30 16:21:00 - [204] Originally by: Sabine Demsky lol takes me 30 minutes to do a 6/10 gurista plex, so when i get a combined drop of 2.1b ive really been making 4.2b an hour. Yay i can do math. i think. And doing a L5 "get me stuff" story mission, makes you 100bn isk/hour. Not sure how relevant this is, though.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.31 09:21:00 - [205] Thanks for the bumps. Just hit 1000 missions , averaging 245m isk/hour at 2K isk/LP. Kinda miserable that im only left with less then 7 mil LP of gallente space tags :( might have to focus on the less lucrative amarr space soon.
Horizonist Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation	Posted - 2011.03.31 09:36:00 - [206] Originally by: AristotleOnassis Thanks for the bumps. Just hit 1000 missions , averaging 245m isk/hour at 2K isk/LP. Kinda miserable that im only left with less then 7 mil LP of gallente space tags :( might have to focus on the less lucrative amarr space soon. Isnt 2000 ISK/LP a VERY optimistic estimate?
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.03.31 09:56:00 - [207] not really. even at biggest sell orders, 2-3K isk/LP is pretty easy, with the correct corporations of course. Quote: 153m isk/hour at 1K isk/lp - Liquidate Infinite LP / week 246m isk/hour at 2K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 10-20m LP / week 338m isk/hour at 3K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 10-20m LP / week 430m isk/hour at 4K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 5-10m LP / week 522m isk/hour at 5K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 2-3m LP / week
Arimitus	Posted - 2011.03.31 12:33:00 - [208] Originally by: AristotleOnassis Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 26/03/2011 15:09:14 I dont agree. 1) LP is a guaranteed reward 2) As i said. Let N be mission running times, as N goes to infinity, your isk/hour CONVERGES to the isk/hour i stated. Sure. the first hour i earn only 150m isk/hour. But on the 10th, 11th,12th --- etc onwards i earn 250m isk/hour. Hence as i run more and more missions, my isk/hour converges to 250m afterall, (15010+25099990)/100000 is darn near to 250m already. LP is a guaranteed reward. There is no reason to discount it. Just like isk wont pay off instantly (you need to buy items), LP also does not pay instantly. furthermore, even at 1K isk/lp it reaches 150m isk/hour which darn ****es over faction mish's, 0.0 mish's or wateva. The more research is done on better payoff, the better it gets. the isk/hour is limiteless Can you rewrite this argument more clearly? As it stands it doesn't make any sense. If N is the mission running times and N tends toward infinity, your isk/hour from missions tends to zero, bro. It's okay if you use big math words and ideas, but please post a well formed proof. Thanks
Insert Your Name	Posted - 2011.03.31 13:01:00 - [209] Originally by: Arimitus Originally by: AristotleOnassis Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 26/03/2011 15:09:14 I dont agree. 1) LP is a guaranteed reward 2) As i said. Let N be mission running times, as N goes to infinity, your isk/hour CONVERGES to the isk/hour i stated. Sure. the first hour i earn only 150m isk/hour. But on the 10th, 11th,12th --- etc onwards i earn 250m isk/hour. Hence as i run more and more missions, my isk/hour converges to 250m afterall, (15010+25099990)/100000 is darn near to 250m already. LP is a guaranteed reward. There is no reason to discount it. Just like isk wont pay off instantly (you need to buy items), LP also does not pay instantly. furthermore, even at 1K isk/lp it reaches 150m isk/hour which darn ****es over faction mish's, 0.0 mish's or wateva. The more research is done on better payoff, the better it gets. the isk/hour is limiteless Can you rewrite this argument more clearly? As it stands it doesn't make any sense. If N is the mission running times and N tends toward infinity, your isk/hour from missions tends to zero, bro. It's okay if you use big math words and ideas, but please post a well formed proof. Thanks Can you ask the question in Excel form? The program won't accept the above words.
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.03.31 14:04:00 - [210] Originally by: Cipher Jones 1. this thread is a blatant troll thread to begin with. 2. finding "unprobable" mission runners is not impossible, and you can find out how to do it quite easily. If I am trolling, prove me wrong with a screenshot showing the income claimed by the OP. Otherwise, you are on the losing end of the stick. If it was court you would lose. If it was college you would fail. If it was high school you would get detention for trolling. If it was Jr. High school your girlfriend would take me to the 8th grade dinner dance and leave you at home. Boy you aren't taking too kindly to hearing how he makes more than you do. Unprobable ships can be found, but not in the timeframe required as its a pretty tedious process.The majority of unprobable T3s that get scanned out are people's ganglink alts that have been afk idling for long amounts of time in crappy safespots, not a specialized mission blitzer at a randomized spot in system. By the time you would have gotten remotely close, the mission runner would be 6-7 missions ahead of you. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
Crabs Collector	Posted - 2011.03.31 14:13:00 - [211] 5x2+10, and that x30.... well thats 600, so... i make 600m each hour man!!! Oh, and if you run complexes and find draclira heatsinks every time.... you'll make BILLIONS each hour, on average!
Candygram Landshark	Posted - 2011.03.31 14:44:00 - [212] i shave therefore i am clean shaved. i smell bull** therefore ur mouth spouts ** from bulls.
Missy Sasha	Posted - 2011.03.31 18:46:00 - [213] I can just buy and sell tags. 3 minutes every other day, thats like . . . 1.5 minutes a day. I make about 30mil a day. Thats 1.2bil an hour. You're losing money on your tags bro
Yxalitis	Posted - 2011.04.01 03:15:00 - [214] Originally by: AristotleOnassis 2-3 minutes shooting 3-4 minutes traveling. please look at the spreadsheet in the OP I can't believe this line got through without comment 2-3 minutes to complete a mission...seriously? Just aligning and warping through 3 gates takes that long, and there's all these, you know, ships to kill and stuff before you can do that? One example you state... Serp cargo delivery complete time 3 minutes. isk 9400 Soo, your calculation is 20 times 9400 for isk/hr I too blitz this mission using a cloak (I could just tank it, but coverp ops cloaks are fun!) No, I am sorry, but the time it takes to get that isk in my wallet is NOT 3 minutes! THAT is the point everyone is trying to make you see! Talking to agent, accepting, undocking, warping to adjacent system, jumping, warping to mission, tootling along until I can nab the cargo, warping back to stargate, jumping, warping back to base, docking, and completing the mission...TAKES TIME It takes time EVERY SINGLE MISSION, this is not something that "approaches zero as missions approach infinity" to paraphrase your post. Without adding in this UNAVOIDABLE time into you calculations, your post is bogus. Then there is the time to convert those LP. the simple act of clicking Accept over and over, whether you are selling 1,000 LP or 1,000,000 LP, you need to sit there clicking away. You have to get the trade goods to your LP store, even using a cargo delivery service to do that for you takes TIME. placing sell orders takes TIME. Yes, doing a lot of these things altogether is quicker then one by one, but the inefficiency of the LP store and market interface means that this still takes TIME! I think you see my point To realise the reward in total from a mission takes longer then 3 minutes, or 5, or 10. You nether the less base your calculations of isk/hour on ONLY the actual mission time, and dismiss all other times as "reducing to zero" You need to run blitz missions for stupid amounts of time to start to realise some of your efficiencies, like 12 hours straight! And in any case, blitzing missions for 12 hours....??? How dull.... I don't believe in signatures, not even really cool ones like "This signature intentionaly left blank"
oldmanst4r Minmatar oldmanst4r's Corporation	Posted - 2011.04.01 03:28:00 - [215] I was going to call bull, then I did some research (a lot actually) to find out if doing this was even remotely possible. I think it is, though my calculations land me closer to the 153m isk/hr mark. I won't be able to confirm till my university semester is over and I have a bit more time on my hands, (especially since i need to grind, grind, grind faction standings) but the OP's numbers are more plausible than they seem at first. If I'm not feeling lazy I'll necro this thread in a few months, or just create one of my own in an attempt to replicate the OP's results. To the OP, congrats at winning EVE. Now seriously, get a gf or something, 10hrs of mission running a day isn't healthy. Originally by: CCP Shadow snip Castration successful. Shadow.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.04.01 04:18:00 - [216] Quote: I can't believe this line got through without comment 2-3 minutes to complete a mission...seriously? Just aligning and warping through 3 gates takes that long, and there's all these, you know, ships to kill and stuff before you can do that? One example you state... Serp cargo delivery complete time 3 minutes. isk 9400 Soo, your calculation is 20 times 9400 for isk/hr I too blitz this mission using a cloak (I could just tank it, but coverp ops cloaks are fun!) No, I am sorry, but the time it takes to get that isk in my wallet is NOT 3 minutes! THAT is the point everyone is trying to make you see! Talking to agent, accepting, undocking, warping to adjacent system, jumping, warping to mission, tootling along until I can nab the cargo, warping back to stargate, jumping, warping back to base, docking, and completing the mission...TAKES TIME It takes time EVERY SINGLE MISSION, this is not something that "approaches zero as missions approach infinity" to paraphrase your post. Without adding in this UNAVOIDABLE time into you calculations, your post is bogus. Then there is the time to convert those LP. the simple act of clicking Accept over and over, whether you are selling 1,000 LP or 1,000,000 LP, you need to sit there clicking away. You have to get the trade goods to your LP store, even using a cargo delivery service to do that for you takes TIME. placing sell orders takes TIME. Yes, doing a lot of these things altogether is quicker then one by one, but the inefficiency of the LP store and market interface means that this still takes TIME! I think you see my point To realise the reward in total from a mission takes longer then 3 minutes, or 5, or 10. You nether the less base your calculations of isk/hour on ONLY the actual mission time, and dismiss all other times as "reducing to zero" You need to run blitz missions for stupid amounts of time to start to realise some of your efficiencies, like 12 hours straight! And in any case, blitzing missions for 12 hours....??? How dull.... time it properly. Dont pick the soda. just go near 19km and warp back to the station In your station, stock up the following reports gallente soda (forgot its name militants these are very useful items to blitz through missions. They are also cheap and light. If you are lucky, certain systems has special warp angle's, where you instantly finish the mission when you warp in (You must warp in from the container's side).
Deerin Minmatar Murientor Tribe	Posted - 2011.04.01 07:42:00 - [217] Originally by: AristotleOnassis time it properly. Dont pick the soda. just go near 19km and warp back to the station In your station, stock up the following reports gallente soda (forgot its name militants these are very useful items to blitz through missions. They are also cheap and light. If you are lucky, certain systems has special warp angle's, where you instantly finish the mission when you warp in (You must warp in from the container's side). I don't understand why people are raging that much. The OP manages to obtain an insane amount of LP by blitzing lowsec missions and converts them to ISK during blitzing...and he does this in a very efficient manner. Would you guys be raging less if he claimed something like 200M isk/h instead of 250? I'm even content with 50m isk/h!! Good Job OP. I would like to ask some questions though? How do you do worlds collide? Do you stock ob zbikoki cards for first room? How do you handle the webbing in second room?. I'm assuming you are speed tanking npc's and killing the structure in Damsel. How do you deal with spider drones there? In general: How do you handle heavy webbing in missions? How do you avoid gatecamps in lowsec? cloaking device? How much faction standing penalty does declining a mission result in? Since you seem like you are not doing any storyline missions, how do you keep your faction standings high enough? ------------------------------------------- Die Amarr Die!!!
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.04.01 09:33:00 - [218] How do you do worlds collide? Do you stock ob zbikoki cards for first room? How do you handle the webbing in second room?. I'm assuming you are speed tanking npc's and killing the structure in Damsel. How do you deal with spider drones there? In general: How do you handle heavy webbing in missions? How do you avoid gatecamps in lowsec? cloaking device? How much faction standing penalty does declining a mission result in? Since you seem like you are not doing any storyline missions, how do you keep your faction standings high enough? -stock zibi cards -tengu pops elite frigs in 1-2 shots. I use rigor+1 range rig. Shoot at 115km, then orbit 160km on your 25th shot. warp to 0 on damsel Tengu has 3 sec allign. My mission hub has 2-3 entrances. Randomize warping , and dont talk too much on local. be unprobeable. Is the key of lowsec survival. Rejecting 15-30 missions loses you -0.01 faction standing. one encounter storyline gets you 0.1-0.3 standing. Its easy to maintain high faction standings
Caldari Citizen20090217	Posted - 2011.04.01 14:11:00 - [219] I'm curious,(and a little skeptical). What do you claim you could achieve if you ran missions for a highsec caldari agent (most common type), with LP in the range of 600-800 isk/lp?
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.04.01 14:31:00 - [220] 60-80m isk/hour at most.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.04.01 16:28:00 - [221] Quote: I don't understand why people are raging that much. The OP manages to obtain an insane amount of LP by blitzing lowsec missions and converts them to ISK during blitzing...and he does this in a very efficient manner. The first time he started this thread he actually posted the relevant screenshots, and the ones he posted in fact proved that over the course of time the screenshots encompassed, no such transactions took place. In this thread he doesn't even post relevant screenshots. A few screens or video could solve the debate, but won't ever happen. .
boardin	Posted - 2011.04.01 22:31:00 - [222] whats your tengu fit, if you don't mind sharing?
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.04.02 12:29:00 - [223] 6 heavy missiles 3 CN Bcu's is a must 2 ECCM 1 invul/photon field ii 1 10mn AB, 1 pithiiA/pithumC shield booster 2 rigor rigs t2 Thats 6/6 high filled 5/6 med filled 3/4 low filled 2/3 rig filled Optional Rig Flare t2 OR agility rig OR missile range rig(recommended) Optional extra low Sig AMP (useful for 6 min blockade/damsel/smash sup) Nano (good for extra tank and agility) 4th CN BCU (good dps) Backup ECCM Arroy (if you dont have halo set)
Caldari Citizen20090217	Posted - 2011.04.02 13:00:00 - [224] So the key to this (assuming it isn't an epic troll) is: - the ability to select missions using high faction standing to decline any unsuitable mission. - using a station with multiple agents so you can do several missions at once. - only accepting missions with a very high lp to completion time ratio. I'm guessing you may also use the high faction standing to turn down missions not in the same system to avoid gatecamps?
Limbista	Posted - 2011.04.02 13:36:00 - [225] Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217 So the key to this (assuming it isn't an epic troll) is: - the ability to select missions using high faction standing to decline any unsuitable mission. - using a station with multiple agents so you can do several missions at once. - only accepting missions with a very high lp to completion time ratio. I'm guessing you may also use the high faction standing to turn down missions not in the same system to avoid gatecamps? The key to this is also trading(and everything that goes with it). Even so with all the hassle and no "social life" behaviour you cant keep a constant income by this. And in high sec you wont come anywhere close to 100 mil/hour.
Xenuria Gallente Dziga royal industries Astronautic Enterprises of Tomorrow	Posted - 2011.04.03 01:17:00 - [226] Yall postin in a troll thread. Vote Support For Great Justice
Straight Edged	Posted - 2011.04.03 02:00:00 - [227] Quote: The key to this is also trading(and everything that goes with it). nah. All my isk calculations is lowest bulk order of items to make the LP items. You dont need trading skills to buy stuff on sell orders. Contracting is also very simple. Simply throw all the item you make on contract. 800-1.2Mil LP of items could be liquidated every week of a single type (so if you make all 3 faction lp stores, you can liquidate more then 3 mil LP) btw. i reject on average 3-6 missions each "round" of 4 missions. The tengu fit is agile enough to skip most gate camps. if local count is too high, then ill simply randomize my entry gate (the mission system has many gates)
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.04.03 04:42:00 - [228] Originally by: Xenuria Yall postin in a troll thread. Yes, we know. But it's entertaining, nonetheless.
Straight Edged	Posted - 2011.04.05 13:07:00 - [229] Simply said, i dont take poop time, lunch time, and time spent drunk into my calculation. I just did the cookie cutter, take isk reward plus isk from LP, plus isk from bounties, and you get isk/hour. to reduce time spent on courriering stuff, simply use RF freight once or twice a month. to reduce time in Jita, use remote market skills. to reduce time manufacturing, use remote manufacturing skills. to reduce time exchanging LP items, always exchange 1 million LP at time once or twice a month (use click+enter to make all you want in seconds)
Richard Willington Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.06 18:14:00 - [230] You say Tengu is best ship for blitzing through L4 because of warp speed, align time etc. Nighhawk is a bit cheaper to get for me, would it be just as good as tengu for blitz? PS: How long does it take for your stuff to get sold? the stuff from LP store, and what stuff do you usually sell in order to reach 1k/LP or more (im in caldari space, doing missions for Caldari Navy) Much appreciated thread. cheers!
EL TITAN Caldari Red Sky Morning BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2011.04.06 21:28:00 - [231] Originally by: AristotleOnassis You are not quite right cipher. You are trying to downplay the isk obtained from LP. In fact, 1 isk from LP is worth more then 1 isk from bounty, due to depreciation being an isk faucet, but thats a different matter altogether. The isk/hour that i portraid is the average isk/hour. Afterall, if i mission run, sometimes i will get more, sometimes i will get less, however it will converge to the average isk/hour Now, lets say, you are trying to proof that, because of delayed Isk from LP, i should get less. However, look at it this way. Lets say i get A isk/hour from bounty/reward and B isk/hour from LP Average isk/hour is A+B. Lets say it takes 1 week for me to liquidate 2 million LP In the first week(n=1), i get only A isk/hour. In the second week(n=2), i get A+B isk/hour (liquidated week 1 LP) In the third week(n=3), i get A+B isk/hour (liquidated week 2 LP) etc. So if i average out my isk/hour for all n, you will find that for n= the nth week, and the a(n), the average for the nth week, For any number , N, less then A+B that you choose, i can always find A, such that for all N<a(n) when n>A which in layman term means, say A+B is 300m isk/hour, and A=50 isk/hour. No matter what number under 300m isk/hour that you choose, I can always find the number of weeks i need to mission run , so that my isk/hour is MORE then the number you choose. For example, you think i make only 270m isk/hour. All i have to do is choose, "mission run for 10 days", and i have obtained more then 270m isk/hour. Same if you choose i make only 299.999999999m isk/hour instead of 300m isk/hour. Then all i have to do is "mission run for 1000++ days", and i have obtained more then 299.999999999m isk/hour The exact calculation would be, f(n) being average isk/hour f(n)= A + (n-1)B/n as n tends to infinite, we break down the equation. (n-1)(B)/n = B*n/n-B/n = B-(B/n). f(n) = A+B-(B/n) As n tends to invite, B/n tends to zero Hence f(n from 0 to infinite) is A+B. Moreover, at the final day, i could earn all my LP isk back at 0 time (using 50-contracts toon) Therefore, to conclude, i must have made on average 300m isk/hour, or A+B isk/hour and nothing less. Delayed isk is insignificant as long as you mission run long enough. math boy!!!
Yolanda Hanaya	Posted - 2011.04.07 13:07:00 - [232] Which ammo are you using? (T1/T2/Faction)
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.04.10 01:48:00 - [233] i use all three
Starshi	Posted - 2011.04.13 08:55:00 - [234] Originally by: Crabs Collector 5x2+10, and that x30.... well thats 600, so... i make 600m each hour man!!! Oh, and if you run complexes and find draclira heatsinks every time.... you'll make BILLIONS each hour, on average! Obviously you don't know what average is. Also average doesn't contain "if's".
Straight Edged	Posted - 2011.04.13 11:10:00 - [235] you should stop trying starship. i gave up long ago trying to explain the concept of average. What i mean by my 246m isk/hour is simple. Let N be hours mission running, as N tends to infinite (as my i mission more and more) , my average isk/hour (given by total isk earned/N) converges to 246m isk/hour (at 2K isk/lP) now ask yourself. as you spend more and more time hunting sanctums or what ever, does your isk/hour converges to 600m isk/hour?
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.04.13 17:39:00 - [236] Originally by: Straight Edged you should stop trying starship. i gave up long ago trying to explain the concept of average. What i mean by my 246m isk/hour is simple. Let N be hours mission running, as N tends to infinite (as my i mission more and more) , my average isk/hour (given by total isk earned/N) converges to 246m isk/hour (at 2K isk/lP) now ask yourself. as you spend more and more time hunting sanctums or what ever, does your isk/hour converges to 600m isk/hour? And we gave up a long time ago trying to explain the concept of actual. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Straight Edged	Posted - 2011.04.13 22:10:00 - [237] I dont care about actual. After all, average as n>infinite is a more important outcome. One number, modeling all actual results
CARE8EAR	Posted - 2011.04.14 07:25:00 - [238] Originally by: Straight Edged you should stop trying starship. i gave up long ago trying to explain the concept of average. What i mean by my 246m isk/hour is simple. Let N be hours mission running, as N tends to infinite (as my i mission more and more) , my average isk/hour (given by total isk earned/N) converges to 246m isk/hour (at 2K isk/lP) now ask yourself. as you spend more and more time hunting sanctums or what ever, does your isk/hour converges to 600m isk/hour? Brain... Going... To... Explodeeeee!! Boom!
Jason W0rthing	Posted - 2011.04.14 15:45:00 - [239] Wait, rejecting 15-30 missions only drops your faction standing by -.01? rejects Angel's Extravaganza and gets Gone Berserk checks faction standings ........This is so liberating. Originally by: CCP Shadow What is thy bidd -- Wait. This thread, I have an irresistible urge to lock it for "being related to neither crime nor punishment."
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.04.14 16:38:00 - [240] Originally by: Straight Edged Edited by: Straight Edged on 13/04/2011 22:19:05 I dont care about actual. After all, average as n>infinite is a more important outcome. One number, modeling and countaining information of all "actual" results (or as many of them, anyways) If someone were to ask me my jobs monthly income, and i say i get $100,000 just because i got that much in december, doesnt make much sense right? afterall, it was a once-a-year bonus event. 220K/12 is a much more sensible number Thats why god invented the W-2. So people would know when douchebags were lying about how much they make. /thread . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Research McSmartypants	Posted - 2011.04.14 16:46:00 - [241] Edited by: Research McSmartypants on 14/04/2011 16:49:09 I have recently confirmed the advantage of high faction standings and the ability to refuse inside the penalty period with negligible faction standings penalty; however, the hit to the corp and agent standings is very noteworthy. Note that this is with L5 missions as well where refusal penalties are likely higher than the L4 being discussed. Given the L5 offer success rate, maybe 1 in 6, my concern with this method is the potential to drive agent and corp standings negative. What are the implications? Even with a faction standing of 9.5, will corps/agents stop talking to me at some point? Will the hit to agent standings eventually compromise the reward to the point that it's not worth doing? My thought is to continue my typical 2 visits per day to avoid the penalties unless I find myself with the time to run a blitz of missions from all of my accessible agents... maybe once or twice a month.
Straight Edged	Posted - 2011.04.14 19:32:00 - [242] Hello. You must be careful about your corp and personal standing. SPECIALLY corp standings. Both of them cant drop below -2. When doing lv 5 missions, rejecting drops 4-8% of your faction standings The good news is, you gain a whole lot of standings for every mission you accomplish. This is because your corp standing is low (you get more the lower it is) in term of magnitude. For example, if your corp standing is 8.0 , every angel extravaganza rejection you lose 0.5 standing (8.0-->7.5) Every angel extravaganza finish you gain 0.1 standing (8.0-->8.1) However, when your corp standing is 0.0 (around -2 real standing with diplomacy IV). Every angel extravaganza rejection, you lose only 0.2-0.3 standing (0.0--> -ve 0.3). However, every angel extravaganza completion you gain 1.0-2.0 standing (0.0-->2.0). so you can really reject much much more. . This is different to lv 5 missions. because every rejection loses you LOTS of agent standing (more then 8%, more then double AE). so even at 0.0 standing, you lose quite a bit. Good luck. As long as you keep an eye on the standings, faction > requirement, corp > -2 , agent > -2 , you will be fine mass rejecting. I gave up trying to get 10.00 faction anyways
Research McSmartypants	Posted - 2011.04.14 23:52:00 - [243] Originally by: Straight Edged Hello. You must be careful about your corp and personal standing. SPECIALLY corp standings. Both of them cant drop below -2. When doing lv 5 missions, rejecting drops 4-8% of your faction standings The good news is, you gain a whole lot of standings for every mission you accomplish. This is because your corp standing is low (you get more the lower it is) in term of magnitude. For example, if your corp standing is 8.0 , every angel extravaganza rejection you lose 0.5 standing (8.0-->7.5) Every angel extravaganza finish you gain 0.1 standing (8.0-->8.1) However, when your corp standing is 0.0 (around -2 real standing with diplomacy IV). Every angel extravaganza rejection, you lose only 0.2-0.3 standing (0.0--> -ve 0.3). However, every angel extravaganza completion you gain 1.0-2.0 standing (0.0-->2.0). so you can really reject much much more. . This is different to lv 5 missions. because every rejection loses you LOTS of agent standing (more then 8%, more then double AE). so even at 0.0 standing, you lose quite a bit. Good luck. As long as you keep an eye on the standings, faction > requirement, corp > -2 , agent > -2 , you will be fine mass rejecting. I gave up trying to get 10.00 faction anyways Thanks for the feedback. Faction is at 9.47 adjusted, and two rejects didn't budge it at all. I was concerned that -2.0 would be a killer. And yes, the corp standing hits observed have been between -4 and -6%, which are pretty hard hitters when standing is 9+. Standings rewards for my skills are a constant 5.08%, but I'm sharing that with an alt, so 5 out of 6 ~5% drops for every 2.5% gain (due to sharing) is likely a recipe for long term failure. I won't be taking the decline "bombing" approach unless I'm looking to do a periodic sweep... maybe once or twice a month when I have a day free to run missions. This thread introduced me to the concept, and I was surprised to see how resilient the faction standings remain. Thanks again for the feedback.
Patri Andari Caldari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer	Posted - 2011.04.16 20:00:00 - [244] Interesting thread. OP I appreciate you sharing it. Only have one thing to add as background. In the past It was possible to get high faction standings with faction A by tanking your standings with their enemy, faction B. To achieve this, people would train up diplomacy and proceed to accept and then decline missions for a corporation in faction B. Diplomacy would buffer the standings loss to faction B allowing a person to continue accepting and failing missions for a remarkable amount of time. It turned out that this made it easier to gain faction standing with faction A than actually grinding successful missions with faction A. This also made diplomacy a much more useful skill to use in boosting standings than just about any other social skill. CCP obviously did not like this and several years ago "fixed" it by substantially reducing the faction losses received for declining or failing missions. It appears the OP has found a way to ~~abuse~~, uh capitalize on the present mechanic in a way I must say is quite creative. OP has certainly opened my eyes to other possibilities. Patri I'll Roshambo You For That Titan!
RadioControlled Joint Empire Squad	Posted - 2011.04.16 23:12:00 - [245] Originally by: Patri Andari Interesting thread. OP I appreciate you sharing it. Only have one thing to add as background. In the past It was possible to get high faction standings with faction A by tanking your standings with their enemy, faction B. To achieve this, people would train up diplomacy and proceed to accept and then decline missions for a corporation in faction B. Diplomacy would buffer the standings loss to faction B allowing a person to continue accepting and failing missions for a remarkable amount of time. It turned out that this made it easier to gain faction standing with faction A than actually grinding successful missions with faction A. This also made diplomacy a much more useful skill to use in boosting standings than just about any other social skill. CCP obviously did not like this and several years ago "fixed" it by substantially reducing the faction losses received for declining or failing missions. It appears the OP has found a way to ~~abuse~~, uh capitalize on the present mechanic in a way I must say is quite creative. OP has certainly opened my eyes to other possibilities. Not quite - failing a mission doesn't increase standings with the opposite faction anymore. That's what CCP changed due to that bug / abuse / whatchamacallit.
Patri Andari Caldari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer	Posted - 2011.04.17 16:31:00 - [246] Originally by: RadioControlled Originally by: Patri Andari Interesting thread. OP I appreciate you sharing it. Only have one thing to add as background. In the past It was possible to get high faction standings with faction A by tanking your standings with their enemy, faction B. To achieve this, people would train up diplomacy and proceed to accept and then decline missions for a corporation in faction B. Diplomacy would buffer the standings loss to faction B allowing a person to continue accepting and failing missions for a remarkable amount of time. It turned out that this made it easier to gain faction standing with faction A than actually grinding successful missions with faction A. This also made diplomacy a much more useful skill to use in boosting standings than just about any other social skill. CCP obviously did not like this and several years ago "fixed" it by substantially reducing the faction losses received for declining or failing missions. It appears the OP has found a way to ~~abuse~~, uh capitalize on the present mechanic in a way I must say is quite creative. OP has certainly opened my eyes to other possibilities. Not quite - failing a mission doesn't increase standings with the opposite faction anymore. That's what CCP changed due to that bug / abuse / whatchamacallit. I think you misread my post. Try again...sober Patri I'll Roshambo You For That Titan!
Straight Edged	Posted - 2011.04.22 05:48:00 - [247] Some people were saying, "you dont get 500m isk/hour from recon1/3 as you cant get it over and over again" Its just a figure for comparison. I could put 8.333333m isk/minute. or 0.13888889m isk/second. But i hate having so many point blabla. and its hard when ultimately , i want to know which mission contributes the most since the end result is in isk/hour. Why do more work for nothing
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2011.04.22 10:01:00 - [248] tbh until you post video of making it to 250hr missioning from 1isk then i wouldn't believe it.Technically you could poop in your pants and save time ****ting but we all go to the toilet don't we knowledge is power
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.04.22 22:20:00 - [249] Originally by: Grozen tbh until you post video of making it to 250hr missioning from 1isk then i wouldn't believe it.Technically you could poop in your pants and save time ****ting but we all go to the toilet don't we He was already perfectly frank that he's not interested in the actual numbers. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Akira Samposeppa Gallente Arthashastra	Posted - 2011.04.22 23:08:00 - [250] I really dont understand you people... ..HOW IN HELL DO YOU MANAGE TO EARN SO MUCH IN MISSIONS ?!?!?! Either much of this are all lies or i am doing something horribly wrong :P Lets put on side if this is true or not, but even 70M isk/hr is too much in my experience... In my calculation i earn 40 M isk/hr tops... with rattlesnake... at high quality lv4 agent... and a good(imho) lp to isk price... And all of my LP skills are at 4... :P I sell LP for about 3k isk/lp (if i remember correctly)... maybe less and there is NO better offer as far as i see... I spent hours upon hours not doing missions but only sitting in station and resarching LP store :( -I take imperial navy eanm bpc-s and make them and sell them. So please explain... How much would you "i earn 70+ M isk/hr with missions" guys/girls earn if you were missioning with my account? (skills are meidiocore, i have great skills for ships/modules i use...and great support skills for same) Coz i simply dont see how can i earn more:P
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.23 00:32:00 - [251] Edited by: stoicfaux on 23/04/2011 00:34:18 Originally by: Akira Samposeppa So please explain... How much would you "i earn 70+ M isk/hr with missions" guys/girls earn if you were missioning with my account? (skills are meidiocore, i have great skills for ships/modules i use...and great support skills for same) Coz i simply dont see how can i earn more:P Cherry pick the missions. Angel Extravaganza is a good mission to run right? Tengu in AE in 37 minutes for 44.5M isk in bounties, rewards and LP (@3,000 isk/lp.) = 1.2M isk/minute or 72M isk/hour. (This is in raw assets. Time to convert LP to isk is not included.) Tengu in The Assault - Serpentis in 8.8 minutes for 28.2M isk in bounties rewards and LP (@3,000 isk/lp.) = 3.2M isk/minute or 192M isk/hour. (This is in raw assets. Time to convert LP to isk is not included.) Overall average is 1.8M isk/minute or 108M isk/hour. And I'm still collecting data, meaning I'm not declining the "bad" missions yet. (Again, this is in raw assets. Time to convert LP to isk is not included.) Ideally, you would run nothing but The Assault - Serpentis and always decline low paying missions like AE. Get a spreadsheet, get your faction standings up, bookmark eve-survival and figure out which missions you can blitz for the best isk to time ratio. (Don't forget to include overhead time to convert LP to ISK.) It also might be a good idea to lower your expectations if everyone else jumps on the bandwagon and decides to cherry pick their missions. P.S. Did I mention that the above numbers do not include the time to convert the LP to isk? ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Mingerdeux	Posted - 2011.04.23 02:25:00 - [252] Why are people so fixated on the time to convert LPs? You do not factor that time into your missioning it's idiotic. LPs are an asset they have an ISK value the time it takes converting them to a module/bpc/ammo does not change this, converting them faster does not get you more ISK. It's the equivalent of accounting for how long it will take you to get your BPC to a manu station get your modules built and then get them sold. This could take days/weeks depending on how long your contracts are up for, are you honestly going to put all this into your calculations? Lets say you're flying a marauder and salvaging/looting as you go are you going to value what the salvaging gets you based on how long it takes to get to a hub and for the sell orders to clear? No you're not because that's **ing ****ed.
CrestoftheStars Caldari Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2011.04.23 03:06:00 - [253] just got back after a seriously long break :P unless everything have changed to the insane by doing the best mission in the best ship possible at that time you made 50mill +- at max a hour. and that number would over a entire day go closer to 30mill if you could keep your mind too it and keep doing it the most effective way (which you cant, unless you are a robot man at 10-15 hours a day:P) personally i need to eat, toilet etc. other life needed stuff while doing so, for me that takes out around 1 hour every 6-10 hours off my mission time (back then). now that i am back, once i gotten the hands on what is what again i will start doing missions again; if thats true like 400mill a hour xD i would believe missioners eqeupment prices would be sky high, but actually from a quick look all the best items have fallen around 25% since i was here last, so i would think the isk/ hour have gone down since i was here :) ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded
GuyWithADotOnHisHead	Posted - 2011.04.23 04:12:00 - [254] ffs with bumping this pile of ****
Ophelia Ursus	Posted - 2011.04.23 09:03:00 - [255] I once made fun of the OP. Then I actually tried it. I hereby take back my ridicule. Holy crap, missioning is pretty ridiculously broken if you have high faction standings. Signature removed.
Straight Edged	Posted - 2011.04.23 11:25:00 - [256] Hello exploited sensitivity mission completion time outlook to "negative". They changed the triggers such that you need to kill both cruiser and frigate line. Approximate addition of mission time by 1-2 minutes a minmatar mission, mordus-something 1/2 mission completion time outlook to "negative". They changed from a "random trigger" to "you need to kill everything". Approximate addition of average mission completion time by 30-60 seconds.
Amza Zamaza	Posted - 2011.05.10 11:35:00 - [257] 5 minutes blockade? Which faction?
Hauler Jack	Posted - 2011.05.10 16:28:00 - [258] vs sanshas , totally possible in tengu, just killing triggers, no nasty NPC ewar vs guristas, never ran that, after jamming adjustments... no vs serps , just kill triggers, get damped to hell, but being fast and knowing where they spawn helps alot vs angel... not sure if there is one vs angel
Deerin Minmatar Murientor Tribe	Posted - 2011.05.11 09:46:00 - [259] Originally by: Amza Zamaza 5 minutes blockade? Which faction? It is not so surprising. You get to range and kill trigger ships only. There are 5 waves. So 1 minute per trigger ship(which is understandable). After killing that last Seraphim(For angel version) you'll have a LOT of enemy ships on the field which are trying to catch your tengu (which is 100km away and spewing missiles) in vain. ------------------------------------------- Die Amarr Die!!!
Elldranga	Posted - 2011.05.18 04:16:00 - [260] I'm a little curious about your chart. On the excel sheet, it shows "245735.2504" as your isk per hour in cell B30. You've claimed 200+ mill per hour in your post... It's a little odd looking at your sheet, because your "isk" isn't set up using standard dollar formats. i.e. ($xxx.xx) Just makes it harder to review. The vast majority of your claimed income is from LP. How is it that you are achieving 12,895 LP per 6.4 minute blockade mission? I also couldn't help but note an apparent inconsistency in that you claim income from blockade, but in your screenshot of standing levels you're clearly declining to do blockade. As another example, on Damsel in distress, your income claims are based on earning 10,872 LP for that mission and completing within 5.5 minutes, but when it's offered to me (I'm looking at the offer right now) I get 3,739 from a Q17. (I do have the connections skill and the other one I can't recall the name of) Ultimately, It's the extraordinarily high LP which is driving the income claim, and that's not been a result that I find duplicated in game.
Straight Edged	Posted - 2011.05.18 04:29:00 - [261] 1) The space was minmatar space. There is people in local. and im hostile. I reject Minmatar blockade, because there are painters. i will do it if local is empty / blue's 2) Low sec yields almost double LP from high sec. And amarr/caldari mission LP yields much less then minmatar/gallente LP.
Ghurthe	Posted - 2011.05.18 14:54:00 - [262] I guess with some factions 1000 isk / lp is viable and possible, but that's an extremely optimistic number. Even SOE only gets like 2000 isk / lp
Straight Edged	Posted - 2011.05.18 15:29:00 - [263] Then you havent researched enough.
Syds Sinclair	Posted - 2011.05.18 16:01:00 - [264] ..What I got from this thread is that Cypher Jones is a complete moron.
Straight Edged	Posted - 2011.05.22 22:06:00 - [265] Wow. the new updates opened up quite a few choices for minmatar and amarr agents. Plus LP values are going crazy right now. Im not exaggerating if i say im constantly making above 350m isk/hour currently.

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