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A Public Letter to CCP From CSM5 About Incarna

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Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.03.07 21:06:00 - [1] Originally by: Mynxee ....However, given how crucial Incarna is to the future .... Our first and most crucial concern is that there is little evidence so far of a roadmap for this feature. We are extremely concerned that development of Incarna, the most significant addition to EVE since Beta, .... We want to see Incarna fully fleshed-out. How that is done and how the evolution of Incarna is messaged will be key challenges for CCP over the next several expansions. We hope that CCP will view these expressions of concern as useful feedback that will be helpful in properly justifying and measuring the resources being devoted to Incarna..... I respectfully, disagree with what is said here. For me I really couldnÆt care less about incarna. I highly doubt it will be that important for the way I play eve. Moreover, I wish they would just spit it out and go back to spaceships. I do not want them to spend any more time trying to ôflesh outö some as yet unknown game mechanic that we can do in stations. I hope that in this sci fi universe most of the important stuff continues to happen in spaceship battles. I hope the road map is ôonce you can walk in stations we are done with incarna until we have polished every aspect of the space ship gameö I realize they are going to continue redirect resources to incarna no matter what I or any other player wants. Nonetheless I can still express my view that I wish they would stop neglecting everything else in the game to spend even more time on this prized egg called incarna. Please CCP get back to the spaceship game asap. -Cearain Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.03.08 03:14:00 - [2] It would be absurd to say anything in this letter violates an NDA. It is simply their requests. I don't see this as any sort of **** storm either. I do agree ccp should communicate - I suppose. I also agree that incarna shouldn't screw up the spaceship game by making docking/undocking take unreasonably long or causing lag etc. I am also not suggesting that CCP scrap incarna. That would just be dumb. But I am saying I do not expect anything more than just being able to walk in stations. I donÆt expect fireworks or some whole new fantastic game. There are all sorts of games where you can do hand to hand or gun combat in space station settings. IÆm not interested. I donÆt want ccp thinking that they need to keep working on incarna until they come up with something great. The whole genre has been beat to death. If they get some inspiration 5 years from now thatÆs fine. But donÆt force it because some players feel they have some sort of right to something more substantial than ôwalking in stations.ö Just make us able to walk in stations in the most basic form possible. Then reassign the vast majority of devs back to spaceships. I listened to part of the ôlost in eveö csm debate. Seleene said CCP had only implemented a small portion of what they had planned for the spaceship game. There is allot more they can do in this game but they need to wrap up the incarna stuff and get to it. -Cearain Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.03.09 15:15:00 - [3] Edited by: Cearain on 09/03/2011 15:18:12 Edited by: Cearain on 09/03/2011 15:16:24 Originally by: TeaDaze The reason CSM are so interested in getting answers to Incarna questions is because that is the main focus of this release cycle. Teadaze Thank you, for your work on csm. I voted for you last time and definitely feel I got my votes worth. Your main point in your campaign and throughout what you did on csm was you were going to push player concerns. But here I think CCP is pulling a form of bait and switch on you. Tiny Montgomery is correct the players were extremely upset because they didnÆt care about incarna. CSM should continue to inform CCP of this fact and continue to push for the things players care about - Iterating on the spaceship game. It seems to me that it is very hard to represent the playerÆs views about a game feature that isn't even out yet and they know nothing about. Sure you may know some things, but we don't. The only thing you know is that the players donÆt really care about incarna and were therefore upset that it was taking so many resources for such a long time period. That was clear right? If that was clear then how can the csm as representatives of the players say things like this: ôgiven how crucial Incarna is to the future of EVE and CCPö ôthe success or failure of Incarna is such an important issueö ôWe are extremely concerned that development of Incarna, the most significant addition to EVE since Beta,ö ôrather we are primarily concerned about the apparent lack of significant planning for a feature CCP properly regards as crucial to the future of the company, and the game we love so much.ö Huh?? I am left to wonder what ccp put in your beer. The players have said the opposite very clearly in June. Many left because they saw incarna as a big time waste and a guarantee that what they find ôcrucialö to the game may never get worked on. The kicker is really this öWe want to see Incarna fully fleshed-out.ö I read this as "CCP spend more time on incarna than the 18 months you already set aside!" This couldnÆt be further from representing the playerÆs views. I want incarna spit out asap so CCP can go back to spaceships asap. Players were ticked off that it took as long as it did. If itÆs not fleshed out so be it, I donÆt care. I care about ccp getting back to spaceships because that is what is crucial to eve û or at least my subscription to it and others who left the game. Not incarna. If ccp wonÆt listen to what the players tell them that does not mean you should ignore what the players say and start playing along with what ccp is forcing down our throat. You simply need to report to the players that ccp is going to continue to ignore them until incarna is done. You have always done a great job of this as far as I can tell and you achieved great results for the players. This letter thoughà. come on. ItÆs the opposite of what the clear majority of players said in june. In any event on the whole I would vote for you again û if you were offering to run. I think the csm got suckered into ccpÆs agenda a bit here but you would start to see straight eventually. Step back and you will see where tiny Montgomery is coming from. -Cearain Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.03.09 17:16:00 - [4] Edited by: Cearain on 09/03/2011 17:16:47 Ghost miner The tutorials will help you learn how to play eve. It's hard to see how you can better learn to fly a spaceship while in a station. No one doubts that incarna will add players who would like a game where they walk around in a space station. But at least as of June of 2010 that was not our playerbase. Indeed itÆs pretty clear that the time and resources spent on incarna will cost eve at least some of its current players. There are many players who continue to play with the hope that ccp will someday improve whatever it is they currently do. (For me its faction war.) The June summit minutes forced everyone to realize that whatever it is they would like done will almost certainly not get done for 18 months. That sucked to hear and more than a few quit. But some of us have decided to ride out the 18 months. Now we get a csm letter that says ôflesh out incarnaö which can be interpreted as asking that they should do more with it than they already planned. Well à no. That is the complete opposite of the views of the players that I had read back in June. The csm should represent the players that elected them. For the reasons I set forth in my prior post this letter does not entirely do that and in some ways completely contradicts the players' outcry. -Cearain Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.03.10 03:00:00 - [5] Originally by: William Loire ... You know when Incarna was first announced five years ago, I remember there being very little objection, I didn't see much support but the "this is a spaceship game" bitter vets mostly kept to themselves except for the odd post. Back then there was no capital sunk into Incarna, we weren't just about to receive the product.Now skip ahead to about a year ago. Incarna is about a year from it's initial release we now know. three to four years of development time, resources and capital already in use and suddenly the player base unites against the concept?..... I would imagine that before the june minutes were released most people like myself thought incarna would be a ô6 month of work and then releaseö deal of like everything else ccp had done. As soon as the players found out that it was going to take 18 months and the rest of eve was to be pretty much abandoned during that time there was the uproar. No one is necessarily ôunited againstö incarna as a normal release. But itÆs obviously just sort of a graphical update to improve immersion for eve. ItÆs not going to add anything of substance to the actual game and abandoning eve for 18 months is a long time for that. It should be not have been a surprise this was not going to make players happy. Now we have this csm letter talking about fleshing it out even more û ie longer than 18 months?? Sorry, that really sucks for those of us who like to fly space ships. It has already been 3 years and fw occupancy still needs 3 or 4 iterations due to it being broken. Everyone acknowledges it is broken. Dominion is only half implemented and then will like need fine tuning. No one is really fighting like they used to before. ôthe Great warsö are in the past history. Now you hear more about bots than anything else happening in null sec. And the devs are developing dresses and hair bows instead of new ships. Or worse they trying to figure out what sort of gameplay they can bring with incarna. Some players complain that they want to punch and shoot at each other. But really that is not how wars in this sci fi universe are fought. We have clones and huge space ships! You donÆt fight spaceships by kicking them or shooting them with pistols. I would just ask anyone who wants more than just the basics in incarna: How much more time do we need to wait? We have stuck it out for the 18 months. Players have already been waiting 3 years for a fix to faction war. Do we need to wait another 3 years? Really, those who want more out of incarna, I just want to know how long the vast majority of resources will be tied up with incarna. In June 2010 I was told they would be tied up until December of 2011. I wasnÆt happy but I swallowed it. If they are going to do more ôfleshing outö of incarna before they get to any of the broken features I try to interact with in game, I just want to know how much longer this will take. If csm is just complaining that incarna isnÆt good enough for them and they expect more in the same amount of time, well I think that is a bit unrealistic. I donÆt know allot about this but I do see that CCP has made these incarna characters look better than any other game I have seen. If it were easy to do this in a mmo, donÆt you think lots of games would look that good? That time was spent and they created something really top quality. No you canÆt punch a pirate or shoot someone. But that is not how the wars are won here. LetÆs just let them get it out and get back to spaceships. Then as time passes if good ideas come up for it great. But letÆs not try to force creativity. The basics are great for incarna. Its looking really nice. ThatÆs fine for now. They can add stuff later. -Cearain Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.03.11 05:09:00 - [6] Edited by: Cearain on 11/03/2011 05:12:49 Edited by: Cearain on 11/03/2011 05:11:36 Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab I'm glad you're so in touch with The Playerbase, even more so than the players themselves are... For a moment there I was convinced me and many, many other players I've talked to really wanted Incarna to be a success. Of course everyone wants incarna to be a success. No one is hoping for failure. If the outcry after the June csm minutes was not because ccp was taking so long and using so many resources on incarna and therefore ignoring the rest of eve, what was it about? Or do you not think anything happened after the June minutes were published? I really don't think what I said is controversial. -Cearain Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906

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