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mazzilliu
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.07 21:53:00 -
[1]
haha, you guys are super dumb releasing a public letter
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mazzilliu
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.08 02:04:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Bomberlocks
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: Bring Stabity Incarna is a dumb waste of time in a game with overwhelming gameplay issues that need addressing over an expansion that is 90% cosmetic and won't fix any problems. If only mazzillu realized this then that is really depressing.
pretty sure what mazz realized is what an NDA is
Except that nothing in the open letter isn't public knowledge and therefore not under NDA, unless the NDA magically means saying nice things about CCP all the time.
this has nothing to do with an NDA
it has everything to do with alienation.
see, the csm has benefited greatly from ****storms aimed at ccp. the summer rage meant ccp gave the csm big cookies to help deal with the player concerns, and i think that the csm sort of hopes that this will happen again.
That's stupid and it won't, because this is completely different than the summer PR incident. first of all in the summer the rage was aimed at the higherups who have the power to make major changes. this letter is trying to start a ****storm directed at the grunts of ccp, and it's telling because it speaks about implementation details. it's not going to work because those grunts of ccp aren't directly beholden to the media, and they aren't required to answer to the CSM or include them in operational details. it's also entirely the wrong way to go about it since they will take it as an insult to their livelihood. incarna to you is a game, incarna to them is a way to feed themselves, and they will do anything to keep that from being jeopardized.
devs aren't required to give the csm so much as the time of day, they only do it if they want to. and they're only going to do it if they think it's safe. we've proven ourselves willing to start pr **** when we don't get our way so this isn't going to help their willingness to deal with us. Thankfully most of us are leaving office, especially the people who were behind this. trebor and helen were supportive of the letter though, something voters might want to keep in mind.
i signed my name to the private letter because i agree with its points, but i'm not going to associate myself with the public letter. even if we get our way it isn't worth the risk that we go back to being csm-in-the-dark that we were during the csm 1-4.
this is stupid; i cant believe i'm the only person who thinks this; screw you guys im goin home
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mazzilliu
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.08 03:59:00 -
[3]
Originally by: PC l0adletter
Originally by: mazzilliu it has everything to do with alienation.
Eh, they left us first
this csm term has enjoyed an unprecedented level of inclusion. keeping going in the direction of public complaints at things we don't like will jeopardize that
the rest of your reply is just spouting off at how you think ccp should be run. that's nice, go get a job in ccp upper management. my concern is with the csm and making sure that next term it gets to have the meaningful discussions that it's enjoyed this term.
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mazzilliu
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.08 13:28:00 -
[4]
Edited by: mazzilliu on 08/03/2011 13:28:46
Originally by: Jagga Spikes
Originally by: mazzilliu ... this is completely different than the summer PR incident. first of all in the summer the rage was aimed at the higherups who have the power to make major changes. this letter is trying to start a ****storm directed at the grunts of ccp, and it's telling because it speaks about implementation details. ...
considering this public letter addresses design (gameplay) how can it be considered aiming at grunts?
high level concerns: "hey you don't have anybody assigned to working on EVE" -summer, 2010, something only the higherups can deal with
low level concerns: "hey, why is this feature mandatory" -this letter, 2011, something only the grunts can deal with
Originally by: Bomberlocks
Originally by: mazzilliu
Originally by: PC l0adletter
Originally by: mazzilliu it has everything to do with alienation.
Eh, they left us first
this csm term has enjoyed an unprecedented level of inclusion. keeping going in the direction of public complaints at things we don't like will jeopardize that
the rest of your reply is just spouting off at how you think ccp should be run. that's nice, go get a job in ccp upper management. my concern is with the csm and making sure that next term it gets to have the meaningful discussions that it's enjoyed this term.
I thought you were quitting eve so why the concern?
what you think i'm doing and what i'm actually doing are probably two separate things
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mazzilliu
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.08 17:57:00 -
[5]
Originally by: TeaDaze
Originally by: mazzilliu high level concerns: "hey you don't have anybody assigned to working on EVE" -summer, 2010, something only the higherups can deal with
low level concerns: "hey, why is this feature mandatory" -this letter, 2011, something only the grunts can deal with
Utter drivel
It is the management/vision/producer level staff within CCP who should be making those kind of key strategic decisions not the "grunts" working on one part of a feature.
We've been waiting for answers to questions and constructive feedback raised in December and haven't heard anything. An internal letter was sent to CCP last month and all we got back was the CQ blog which didn't address anything significant.
This letter hasn't damaged any working relationship with the Incarna teams because there wasn't a working relationship with them in the first place
you still can't disagree that the two complaints are of a completely different nature. one is something that can be seen as a reasonable request all around, the other can be seen as trying to dictate game features by others. one is broad and allows for a lot of leeway in the possible responses, the other is specific and narrow and not to mention ignorant of whatever operational constraints may be imposed on the team.
the csm's relationship with the incarna team might not have possibly gotten worse but we've just broadcasted a message to the rest of the teams saying hey guys, if you dont do something we really want you to do, we're going to try publicly shaming you. GOOD WORK GUYS
with regards to the timing issues brought forth by others: the letter was supposed to be released two weeks ago, since i raised up such a stink about it and the csm was concerned about being perceived as acting maliciously, and ccp said they would be taking time to draft a response(incarna devblog). but in the end NOBODY's minds changed because of it. We can't really release this letter much later than this because our term is ending, although most functional activity of the csm seems to have ceased at around the time of this letter anyways. |
mazzilliu
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.09 04:53:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Virtuozzo
Originally by: mazzilliu Now on Fox News: State of Fear - how to preserve reverse social engineering!
Sorry, I could not resist that wide open door
clearly i am abstaining from signing my name to trick you.
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mazzilliu
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.17 19:56:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Bomberlocks
Mazz, you're ignoring the part where CCP itself is divided on Incarna. You know very well that it's only the so-called team awesome (Noah Ward and co) that is ignoring the CSM. The rest of CCP seem to have had no problem with CSM and most seem to have behaved very professionally.
It is your opinion that cuddling up to Noah and co will somehow change things, but it certainly isn't anyone else's. For those who are interested, this is what an interview with that part of CCP looks like.
So no, I don't think it's supadum.
trying to put words in my mouth about what my opinion is
that isnt my opinion, thats your imagination talking.
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