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Sean Whedon
Samsara. VINNANA
20
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 23:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
This was written by me and me alone with the intention of solidifying all Incursion Communities:
------------------------------
HIGH-SEC INCURSION RUNNERS COMMUNITY AGREEMENT (HIRCA)
0. INTRODUCTION TO CHANNELS: a. The Valhalla Project (TVP) - An Incursion Community focused on shield tanked ships. Accepts any and all pilots willing to listen and learn, with regards to ship fits and fleet mechanics. Intended for any shield focused pilot, without bias.
b. The Ditanian Fleet (TDF) - An Incursion Community focused on armor tanked ships. Also accepts any and all pilots willing to listen and learn, with regards to ship fits and fleet mechanics. Intended for any armor focused pilot, without bias.
c. Incursion Shiny Network (ISN) - An Incursion Community focused on shield tanked ships, with the addition of ISK Per Hour being the fundamental strategy. Accepts pilots capable of flying specific ships, fit in a specific way, for the sake of efficiency and speed. Must be willing to listen and learn, with regards to ship fits and fleet mechanics.
1. MOM ROTATION: a. The Valhalla Project (TVP), The Ditanian Fleet (TDF), Incursion Shiny Network (ISN), followed by "Community X." b. All MOM Rotation slots are subject to being "Contested."
1a. COMMUNITY X: aa. Community X defined as any other willing Incursion Community with sufficient pilot numbers able to field a full SCOUT, VANGUARD, ASSAULT, HEADQUARTERS, and MOM fleet at the same time (roughly 130 pilots minimum) during their respective Incursion Community's Peak Playtime Hours.
1b. CONTESTED: ba. If any Incursion Community is incapable of fielding a full MOM fleet (at least 60 pilots) by the designated "Courtesy Time Frame," a welcomed and acceptable Contest shall be allowed, which may include any and all EVE Online Communities capable of fielding a full MOM fleet, regardless of MOM Rotation.
1a. COURTESY TIME FRAME: aa. A Courtesy Time Frame of 10 - 12 hours after the Incursion site has began Withdrawing. This Courtesy Time Frame is to allow all the Incursion Community to move themselves to the next high-sec Incursion site. If no new high-sec Incursion site is available upon reaching Courtesy Time Frame, then Courtesy Time Frame will be pushed back until an available high-sec Incursion site spawns.
2. PROPAGANDA: a. All Incursion Communities accepted into MOM Rotation must agree to use no forms of Propaganda to belittle, harass, misinform, disrespect, falsely accuse, or otherwise deface or defame any other Incursion Community.
3. BAN LISTS: a. Any and all Ban Lists must be updated to remove no longer necessary character names, corporations, and/or alliances; updated Ban Lists are to be made available as public domain.
4. NINJA LOOTERS AND GRIEFERS: a. All Incursion Communities (labeled "Incursion Runners Community," here on IRC) must cease and desist Ninja Looting MOM Site Drops and the overall Griefing of Incursion sites.
1a. Incursion Runners Community (IRC): aa. IRC is defined as all Incursion Communities willing and able to sign this agreement, despite having the pilot numbers to gain a MOM Rotation slot.
ab. IRC should include a Panel of channel CEOs (labeled "Chief Executive Panel," here on CEP) which should also include Third Party "Civilian" members acting as their respective Community's Diplomat (labeled "Community 'Civilian' Diplomat," here on CCD).
1a. CCDs are to be chosen by either their respective Incursion Community as a whole or by IRC's CEP, in Good Faith. 1b. CCD's purpose is to help discuss and share view points which may be missed by IRCs CEP and be in no way biased toward any one community.
5. MOM SITE DROPS: a. MOM Site Drops are the sole property of the victors of MOM Site, which will be internally decided upon by the victor's Incursion Community CEOs as to how to handle MOM Site Drops, or by agreement of IRCs CEP, in Good Faith.
6. DECISION MAKING: a. No decisions can be made by any one Incursion Community, whether in Good Faith or not, without IRCs CEP being given the opportunity, with full Due-Diligence, to give opinion on the matter. Skill Guide - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=139973
Incursion Agreement - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1846944&#post1846944 |
James 315
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2510
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 23:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
You call that a code? That's not a code. This is a code.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½The daily saga of one man's quest to bring civilization to highsec by bumping miners out of range. |
Herr Ronin
Intergalactic Slave Network
219
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 23:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
A very well done and interesting post.
Let's see what come's of it. | Management Of ISN | Skype: Herr-Ronin | Twitter: @Herr_Ronin |
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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
284
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 23:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
ISD please move to Missions & Complex beore the trolls start the feeding frenzy =========================================================
EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4458
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 23:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
/signed
sincerely, the only group to ever get the revenant BPC drops "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Myxx
Minmatar Death Squad Broken Chains Alliance
567
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 23:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
And this is why I don't do incursions, too much crap and politiks. Its sad to see what incursions have become. |
Sean Whedon
Samsara. VINNANA
22
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 23:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Andski wrote:/signed
sincerely, the only group to ever get the revenant BPC drops nice to see a Goon sign this :) Skill Guide - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=139973
Incursion Agreement - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1846944&#post1846944 |
Sean Whedon
Samsara. VINNANA
22
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 23:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Myxx wrote:And this is why I don't do incursions, too much crap and politiks. Its sad to see what incursions have become. i know, right? just keeps getting worse and this is the only public attempt at fixing this sort of thing. Skill Guide - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=139973
Incursion Agreement - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1846944&#post1846944 |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4458
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 23:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sean Whedon wrote:Andski wrote:/signed
sincerely, the only group to ever get the revenant BPC drops nice to see a Goon sign this :)
you don't need to count us as a signatory "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Sean Whedon
Samsara. VINNANA
23
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 23:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Andski wrote:Sean Whedon wrote:Andski wrote:/signed
sincerely, the only group to ever get the revenant BPC drops nice to see a Goon sign this :) you don't need to count us as a signatory copy. Skill Guide - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=139973
Incursion Agreement - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1846944&#post1846944 |
|
Quaaid
Hephaestus LLC Get Off My Lawn
126
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 00:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Solidify incursion communities by reaching out and working with them directly. I really doubt they want to collaborate on a public forum. Politics for subsets of the EVE universe can't get molded well here.
With that said, worry about how to even get the MOM loot before you divide it up. :)
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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
285
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 00:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Quaaid wrote: With that said, worry about how to even get the MOM loot before you divide it up. :)
If they ever implement Crimwatch or fix loot drops so everyone in fleet can fire/scram the looter ( not just 1 corp in the fleet ) then we'd have the loot pretty much every time.
I hope if they ever have a non Sanssha Incursion it'll have the above fix & make a loot drop more of the payout instead of just pure ISK & LP TBH. A Jove, Drone or Sleeper Incursion would be cool =========================================================
EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Sturmwolke
262
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 00:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sean Whedon wrote:This was written by me and me alone with the intention of solidifying all Incursion Communities
Doubt that statement, judging from the timestamps of the replies. It's definitely written to force a hand on someone's part when you air drama into the public eye.
Sean Whedon wrote: 1. MOM ROTATION: a. The Valhalla Project (TVP), The Ditanian Fleet (TDF), Incursion Shiny Network (ISN), followed by "Community X." b. All MOM Rotation slots are subject to being "Contested."
With the above, you have 2 shield groups vs 1 armor group, plus one wildcard. Channels are never mixed for a practical reason. To agree to the above would mean one nail to the armor group's coffin and further consolidate shield player numbers.
The simpler approach is to alternate evenly between armor and shield. Armor group (TDF) or any future armor group splinters will deal with taking turns within the allocated armor rotation slot. Shield group (TVP and ISN) or any future shield group splinters will deal with taking turns within the allocated shield rotation slot
That preserves the balance betweeen armor and shield.
|
Sean Whedon
Samsara. VINNANA
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 00:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:Sean Whedon wrote:This was written by me and me alone with the intention of solidifying all Incursion Communities Doubt that statement, judging from the timestamps of the replies. It's definitely written to force a hand on someone's part when you air drama into the public eye. Sean Whedon wrote: 1. MOM ROTATION: a. The Valhalla Project (TVP), The Ditanian Fleet (TDF), Incursion Shiny Network (ISN), followed by "Community X." b. All MOM Rotation slots are subject to being "Contested."
With the above, you have 2 shield groups vs 1 armor group, plus one wildcard. Channels are never mixed for a practical reason. To agree to the above would mean one nail to the armor group's coffin and further consolidate shield player numbers. The simpler approach is to alternate evenly between armor and shield. Armor group (TDF) or any future armor group splinters will deal with taking turns within the allocated armor rotation slot. Shield group (TVP and ISN) or any future shield group splinters will deal with taking turns within the allocated shield rotation slot That preserves the balance betweeen armor and shield. no need to doubt that statement. i wrote this after issues occurred between these channels very recently, then posted a link to this page in all of their channels.
as far as what you are stating, that is definitely a compromising solution. to be honest, Community X (wildcard) shouldnt really need to exist, as TVP is shield, TDF is armor, and ISN is for the super expense isk/hour community. although ISN is a shield community only, the reason that is so is because TDF (armor in general, really) tend to have a VERY difficult time putting a large enough fleet together. ISN would have an armor channel if there were enough pilots for it, thus creating the final community needed (a general shield and armor, and then a shiny shield and armor). it would solidify the incursion community into 4 main channels, with splinter channels (subsets and such) being allowed to sign the agreement, but probably not being able to claim a MOM site rotation slot. which is fair, being that more often than not, the top LP gainers will be from TVP or ISN, and has been the case for over a year. Skill Guide - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=139973
Incursion Agreement - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1846944&#post1846944 |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4458
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 00:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:If they ever implement Crimwatch or fix loot drops so everyone in fleet can fire/scram the looter ( not just 1 corp in the fleet ) then we'd have the loot pretty much every time. I hope if they ever have a non Sanssha Incursion it'll have the above fix & make a loot drop more of the payout instead of just pure ISK & LP TBH. A Jove, Drone or Sleeper Incursion would be cool
everyone in the fleet can shoot the looters, they just all have to be in the same corp "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Sturmwolke
262
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 01:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sean Whedon wrote: .. although ISN is a shield community only, the reason that is so is because TDF (armor in general, really) tend to have a VERY difficult time putting a large enough fleet together. ISN would have an armor channel if there were enough pilots for it, thus creating the final community needed (a general shield and armor, and then a shiny shield and armor). it would solidify the incursion community into 4 main channels, with splinter channels (subsets and such) being allowed to sign the agreement, but probably not being able to claim a MOM site rotation slot. which is fair, being that more often than not, the top LP gainers will be from TVP or ISN, and has been the case for over a year.
Channels are never mixed for practical reasons. What you described has been done before when "BTL" (the main shield channel back then) spawned "BTL Armor" for their own reasons. It never really took off as a reliable armor channel.
High-sec incursion runners need to put their perspective right.
ISN (plus other channels) have been around for quite a bit during the BTL/TDF era of MOM rotation. They truly don't need the MOM kill to increase their isk efficiency, because elite fleets are only interested in one thing - the best isk/hour. I farmed literally millions of LP without batting an eye of who gets to kill the MOM. If I wanted the experience, I'll just catch any TDF/BTL mom fleet with the right ship as EITHER fleets will have experienced FC leading them. This sudden interest from ISN means only one thing - someone's bored.
The majority high-sec incursion runners aren't interested in the politics. The BTL/TDF era condition was simple :
Kill MOM when it withdraws.
How difficult is it to understand five words of English? Good grief. Now play nice children.
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
285
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 01:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Andski wrote:[quote=DarthNefarius]If they ever implement Crimwatch or fix loot drops so everyone in fleet can fire/scram the looter ( not just 1 corp in the fleet ) then we'd have the loot pretty much every time. I hope if they ever have a non Sanssha Incursion it'll have the above fix & make a loot drop more of the payout instead of just pure ISK & LP TBH. A Jove, Drone or Sleeper Incursion would be cool
everyone in the fleet can shoot the looters, they just all have to be in the same corp[/quo] Don't think Ive ever heard of a HI SEC Incursion MOM fleet were all members are in the same corp... even the ones Brick & Goons had had peeps in the same alliance but not in same corp so if NINJA looters where shot Concord kill most in the fleetthat tried to scram them =========================================================
EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Mallak Azaria
583
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 02:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:if NINJA looters where shot Concord kill most in the fleetthat tried to scram them
That sounds awesome & would be fun to watch.
Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4459
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 02:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Don't think Ive ever heard of a HI SEC Incursion MOM fleet were all members are in the same corp... even the ones Brick & Goons had had peeps in the same alliance but not in same corp so if NINJA looters where shot Concord kill most in the fleetthat tried to scram them
generally if that was the case there were enough dudes from any given corp to kill a ninja looter
on one hand, hisec incursion runners have to deal with *gasp* suicide blackbirds and ninja looters while lowsec dudes had to deal with things like R&K cynos going up the moment the mothership was popped, gangs coming by looking for kills, gate rats and other such things
naturally the hisec incursion runners are in need of more immunity "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
115
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 05:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
TVP will never fly with ISN, because ISN are in fact griefing assholes. I have no affiliation with the leadership of TVP, however all you have to do is stop by the in game channel and this will be confirmed repeatedly. |
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Ghazu
58
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 05:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
No it's you scrub fleets thats griefing by slowing things down for everyone then crying about it. |
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
115
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 05:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:No it's you scrub fleets thats griefing by slowing things down for everyone then crying about it.
Not by a longshot girlfriend. ISN runs with extra pilots so they are making less money. They slow down the ISK/hour for everyone including themselves. Open up your incursion journal and read it before you post about it kthxbye.
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Yeyra
Atlantean Defense Fleet In Umbra Mortis
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 05:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Ghazu wrote:No it's you scrub fleets thats griefing by slowing things down for everyone then crying about it. Not by a longshot girlfriend. ISN runs with extra pilots so they are making less money. They slow down the ISK/hour for everyone including themselves. Open up your incursion journal and read it before you post about it kthxbye.
So because ISN supposedly runs with extra pilots every incursion runner is making less money? That doesn't make any sense what so ever. |
Dirk Culliford
Zero G Universal Enterprises
19
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 05:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
CCP! Incursions are all about teamwork, we're not in it for isk. We enjoy doing it so we can play with other people and have fun. This is why we need you to buff payouts! We need more isk/hour, because of teamwork!
Lmao, you guys...
I propose an alternative solution that would get rid of ninja looting, arguments over sites etc. Remove incursions |
Yeyra
Atlantean Defense Fleet In Umbra Mortis
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 06:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dirk Culliford wrote:CCP! Incursions are all about teamwork, we're not in it for isk. We enjoy doing it so we can play with other people and have fun. This is why we need you to buff payouts! We need more isk/hour, because of teamwork!
Lmao, you guys...
No one wrote anything about buffing Incursion payouts. |
Dirk Culliford
Zero G Universal Enterprises
19
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 06:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
Yeyra wrote:Dirk Culliford wrote:CCP! Incursions are all about teamwork, we're not in it for isk. We enjoy doing it so we can play with other people and have fun. This is why we need you to buff payouts! We need more isk/hour, because of teamwork!
Lmao, you guys... No one wrote anything about buffing Incursion payouts.
I was referring to the buffs of the past |
Krissada
Imperial Guardians Tribal Band
169
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 06:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
Hehehe.... I can't wait to get my hands on you again GÖÑ |
Yeyra
Atlantean Defense Fleet In Umbra Mortis
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 06:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
Dirk Culliford wrote:Yeyra wrote:Dirk Culliford wrote:CCP! Incursions are all about teamwork, we're not in it for isk. We enjoy doing it so we can play with other people and have fun. This is why we need you to buff payouts! We need more isk/hour, because of teamwork!
Lmao, you guys... No one wrote anything about buffing Incursion payouts. I was referring to the buffs of the past
And why are they relevant to this topic? |
Dirk Culliford
Zero G Universal Enterprises
19
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 06:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
Yeyra wrote:Dirk Culliford wrote:Yeyra wrote:Dirk Culliford wrote:CCP! Incursions are all about teamwork, we're not in it for isk. We enjoy doing it so we can play with other people and have fun. This is why we need you to buff payouts! We need more isk/hour, because of teamwork!
Lmao, you guys... No one wrote anything about buffing Incursion payouts. I was referring to the buffs of the past And why are they relevant to this topic?
Because they show incursions for what they really are. It's got nothing to do with enjoyable gameplay and everything to do with fountains of isk.
If you want isk at least be competitive. None of this gentleman's agreement 'it's your turn at the spawn good sirs'. You should all be going for it and may the best fleet win. C'est la eve |
Yeyra
Atlantean Defense Fleet In Umbra Mortis
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 07:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
Dirk Culliford wrote: Because they show incursions for what they really are. It's got nothing to do with enjoyable gameplay and everything to do with fountains of isk.
Correct.
Quote:If you want isk at least be competitive. None of this gentleman's agreement 'it's your turn at the spawn good sirs'. You should all be going for it and may the best fleet win. C'est la eve
ISN is competitive. If we can contest, we do it. The current mothership drama is about TVP getting butthurt, because ISN popped a mothership last week a few hours before it was withdrawing. So they decided to pop every single mothership as soon as the next Incursion spawns and thus only leaving one Incursion up at a time to hurt/punish ISN. But the only thing TVP accomplishes with this is to annoy every single Incursion runner in EVE by forcing them to move daily, especially their own members. In fact they don't hurt us at all, they're accomplishing the exact opposite by forcing everyone into one High Sec Incursion and thus giving us more contests which means more ISK/hr for us. It's annoying to move daily, but that's it. This drama going to end sooner or later. Either TVP stops or they'll lose members like crazy and won't be able to fill any fleet anymore, because many of their members are already pretty pissed about this. I hope now you understand why Sean Whedon suggested this agreement and is trying to end this drama.
And fyi I personally agree with you that there should'nt be a rotation. Motherships aren't that important anyways. I personally don't care who pops them. I only care about when they're getting popped. |
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Halcyon Ingenium
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
180
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 07:42:00 -
[31] - Quote
More evidence incursions should just go away to the cornfields. They say that in learning the game Go, it is best to lose your first 50 games as soon as possible. This is because Go is complex, and the only way you will start to get an idea of strategy and play is by first sucking and failing as hard as you can. So...In EVE, it is best to get your first 50 deaths by combat as soon as possible. |
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
115
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 08:06:00 -
[32] - Quote
Yeyra wrote:Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Ghazu wrote:No it's you scrub fleets thats griefing by slowing things down for everyone then crying about it. Not by a longshot girlfriend. ISN runs with extra pilots so they are making less money. They slow down the ISK/hour for everyone including themselves. Open up your incursion journal and read it before you post about it kthxbye. So because ISN supposedly runs with extra pilots every incursion runner is making less money? That doesn't make any sense what so ever.
I guess you don't run incursions.
They contest you. Your fleet has enough pilots for full payout. Theirs has more pilots so less payout per pilot.
If they win everyone makes less ISK. Since they have more ships, they usually win. When Incursions were full at least there was a reason to do it. Now its just indignant.
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LilRemmy
Synaptic Void AAA Citizens
30
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 08:12:00 -
[33] - Quote
I sign to have all incursions moved to lowsec and 0.0.
Tada! |
Yeyra
Atlantean Defense Fleet In Umbra Mortis
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 08:31:00 -
[34] - Quote
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Yeyra wrote:Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Ghazu wrote:No it's you scrub fleets thats griefing by slowing things down for everyone then crying about it. Not by a longshot girlfriend. ISN runs with extra pilots so they are making less money. They slow down the ISK/hour for everyone including themselves. Open up your incursion journal and read it before you post about it kthxbye. So because ISN supposedly runs with extra pilots every incursion runner is making less money? That doesn't make any sense what so ever. I guess you don't run incursions. They contest you. Your fleet has enough pilots for full payout. Theirs has more pilots so less payout per pilot. If they win everyone makes less ISK. Since they have more ships, they usually win. When Incursions were full at least there was a reason to do it. Now its just indignant.
You guessed wrong. I fly with ISN. I'm one of the "griefing assholes". |
Sean Whedon
Samsara. VINNANA
25
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 08:40:00 -
[35] - Quote
Well, the last incursion that got popped, 6 of 9 top LP winners were ISN... They really don't get hurt. The speed they go through sites... They did NRF sites back to back which were 15 minutes long. Skill Guide - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=139973
Incursion Agreement - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1846944&#post1846944 |
Sturmwolke
262
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 08:42:00 -
[36] - Quote
Yeyra wrote:Motherships aren't that important anyways
Just a small note to that. MOMs aren't important to hardcore (24/7) regulars or veterans, but they're quite a novelty event for youngblood incursion runners. The rotation system and the withdrawal condition gives them some leeway in experiencing the content without stressing their schedules (whether RL or EVE related).
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Yeyra
Atlantean Defense Fleet In Umbra Mortis
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 08:46:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:Yeyra wrote:Motherships aren't that important anyways Just a small note to that. MOMs aren't important to hardcore (24/7) regulars or veterans, but they're quite a novelty event for youngblood incursion runners. The rotation system and the withdrawal condition gives them some leeway in experiencing the content without stressing their schedules (whether RL or EVE related).
I meant the payout of the Mothership site. |
Ghazu
59
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 09:17:00 -
[38] - Quote
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Ghazu wrote:No it's you scrub fleets thats griefing by slowing things down for everyone then crying about it. Not by a longshot girlfriend. ISN runs with extra pilots so they are making less money. They slow down the ISK/hour for everyone including themselves. Open up your incursion journal and read it before you post about it kthxbye.
Explain to me how ISN's shorter minutes spent per site slows things down for everyone? |
Benny Ohu
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
274
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 09:20:00 -
[39] - Quote
Sean Whedon wrote:This was written by me and me alone I have identified a problem with the 'community agreement' |
Halcyon Ingenium
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
180
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 10:32:00 -
[40] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Sean Whedon wrote:This was written by me and me alone I have identified a problem with the 'community agreement'
lulzy, true, but lulzy
They say that in learning the game Go, it is best to lose your first 50 games as soon as possible. This is because Go is complex, and the only way you will start to get an idea of strategy and play is by first sucking and failing as hard as you can. So...In EVE, it is best to get your first 50 deaths by combat as soon as possible. |
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Matriarch Prime
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 10:54:00 -
[41] - Quote
Hmm, I guess I won't be bothering with incursions any time soon if this is what is all about. And it was one of the things I was looking forward to trying after having been away from the game a while.
You guys should look at yourselves. You've turned a neat feature into a schoolyard politics.
edit:
Here's a novel idea. How about the best fleet wins? I don't who is doing what, but if someone were going around simply despawning events simply to **** people off, I be focusing on how to stop that. Not who gets a turn chopping down the isk tree. |
Herr Ronin
Intergalactic Slave Network
220
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 11:44:00 -
[42] - Quote
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Ghazu wrote:No it's you scrub fleets thats griefing by slowing things down for everyone then crying about it. Not by a longshot girlfriend. ISN runs with extra pilots so they are making less money. They slow down the ISK/hour for everyone including themselves. Open up your incursion journal and read it before you post about it kthxbye.
I would like to update you.
ISN Mainly Runs Vanguard's and Assaults.
Vanguards 12 on grid
Assaults 20 on grid
HQ's 40 on grid
ISN is all about contesting and isk per hour, there is a lot of players who play for fun and other things, Our's is Isk, Slandering a community off isn't going to prove anything, Especially if you lack the correct information. | Management Of ISN | Skype: Herr-Ronin | Twitter: @Herr_Ronin |
|
goldiiee
Tax and War Haven
29
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 13:10:00 -
[43] - Quote
Herr Ronin wrote:Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Ghazu wrote:No it's you scrub fleets thats griefing by slowing things down for everyone then crying about it. Not by a longshot girlfriend. ISN runs with extra pilots so they are making less money. They slow down the ISK/hour for everyone including themselves. Open up your incursion journal and read it before you post about it kthxbye. I would like to update you. ISN Mainly Runs Vanguard's and Assaults. Vanguards 12 on grid Assaults 20 on grid HQ's 40 on grid ISN is all about contesting and isk per hour, there is a lot of players who play for fun and other things, Our's is Isk, Slandering a community off isn't going to prove anything, Especially if you lack the correct information.
Most of these toons are known trolls or incursion griefers that love nothing more than seeing carebear tears. Most eveident from thier lack of attention to the main topic and the determination to swap focus from, how we can get along, to how we are getting more than we deserve.
Go find a low sec gate to camp while you play WOW rather than troll the forums. Getting it done is easy, dealing with drama not so much. |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 13:18:00 -
[44] - Quote
All i know is that i am having fun atm by contesting and being in this no rule state of things...so i dont care if agreement is not reached,but cant say it isnt sound idea.
|
Weasel Juice
Exanimo Inc Anger Management.
12
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 13:21:00 -
[45] - Quote
It's a sensible draft overall, and covers a lot of points.
There are a few details that are slightly off, like personally I'd rather have "full mom fleet" be defined by the capability rather than actual numbers, especially since Kundalini Manifests have been done with 40 and less people, down to 28 even. Because reality is that neither TDF (post-patch) nor ISN have so far fielded those numbers themselves, but they managed just fine with less.
But those are minor details to be worked out.
Sure, it's written by one person alone, but it's a first draft that has now entered public peer review. Through that public peer review it gains the community tag, since we not only get to see it, but get to discuss it, and discuss it within our communities to what points we agree on, and whether we decide to sign it.
And also it would be nice if we could keep the arguing and slandering about each other out of this topic, especially since that's one of the points it's trying to remove as well. |
True Xtian
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 13:24:00 -
[46] - Quote
Gÿ+/ /Gûî /n++ \ |
Ariak Rykard
Squirrel Horde Habitat Against Humanity
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 13:33:00 -
[47] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:[ Channels are never mixed for practical reasons. What you described has been done before when "BTL" (the main shield channel back then) spawned "BTL Armor" for their own reasons. It never really took off as a reliable armor channel.
High-sec incursion runners need to put their perspective right.
ISN (plus other channels) have been around for quite a bit during the BTL/TDF era of MOM rotation. They truly don't need the MOM kill to increase their isk efficiency, because elite fleets are only interested in one thing - the best isk/hour. I farmed literally millions of LP without batting an eye of who gets to kill the MOM. If I wanted the experience, I'll just catch any TDF/BTL mom fleet with the right ship as EITHER fleets will have experienced FC leading them. This sudden interest from ISN means only one thing - someone's bored.
The majority high-sec incursion runners aren't interested in the politics. The BTL/TDF era condition was simple :
Kill MOM when it withdraws.
How difficult is it to understand five words of English? Good grief. Now play nice children.
+1......million -á-á-á-á-á-á-á ¦+ ¦+¦+¦+¦+'¦+'\¦+¦+¦¦-ç\=((GÇó¦¬GùÅ))=/¦+¦+¦¦-ç/'¦+¦+ ¦+ ¦+ b(",b) ob(-.0)do (d.")d |
goldiiee
Tax and War Haven
29
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 13:41:00 -
[48] - Quote
As always a good topic with valid points is ground down to trolls and misinformation. My opinion, TVP should continue in their current tactic, only allow one high sec incursion to be up at a time. This guarantees their member base will be reduced to a number barely capable of fielding competent Scout site fleet. Then the whole problem will resolve itself, Incursions will be back in the hands of the local incursion chat, we all remember those fleets, many of them ending in the death of the entire fleet usually for the LULZ of greifers.
Explaining these points is ideally a distraction from the more serious topic this thread was started for. I would regard the trolls and disinformation as a tactic but that would be attributing duplicity, insight and depth to the management of TVP. No, I think this is just a case of management losing their community focus and sadly trying to keep their pie to themselves.
The easy solution is to do nothing and let the monster die and see if the new incarnation of GÇÿorganized Incursion CommunityGÇÖ fairs better than the old.
Or read the agreement at the beginning of this thread; implement it in phases or all at once. Then go back to making pirate tears as we make ISK and have fun in a way thankfully obsolete of grief and trolls with the exception of the occasional GÇ£YOUR FIT SUCKSGÇ¥ post in chat. :) Getting it done is easy, dealing with drama not so much. |
Ariak Rykard
Squirrel Horde Habitat Against Humanity
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 13:45:00 -
[49] - Quote
Awww, but you can't let BTL/TVP die! Where you gonna find fresh meat when you're all old and toothless? -á-á-á-á-á-á-á ¦+ ¦+¦+¦+¦+'¦+'\¦+¦+¦¦-ç\=((GÇó¦¬GùÅ))=/¦+¦+¦¦-ç/'¦+¦+ ¦+ ¦+ b(",b) ob(-.0)do (d.")d |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
330
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 14:08:00 -
[50] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Quaaid wrote: With that said, worry about how to even get the MOM loot before you divide it up. :)
If they ever implement Crimwatch or fix loot drops so everyone in fleet can fire/scram the looter ( not just 1 corp in the fleet ) then we'd have the loot pretty much every time.
Um... Yeah cause mo griefer will attempt to steal the loot drop know when you all pop them, there is a chance the loot will pop too causing grief. Sorry, but crime watch won't stop people from griefing for griefs sake. |
|
Kodavor
Mine3
25
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 14:23:00 -
[51] - Quote
Sean Whedon wrote:This was written by me and me alone with the intention of solidifying all Incursion Communities: ------------------------------ HIGH-SEC INCURSION RUNNERS COMMUNITY AGREEMENT (HIRCA) 0. INTRODUCTION TO CHANNELS: a. The Valhalla Project (TVP) - An Incursion Community focused on shield tanked ships. Accepts any and all pilots willing to listen and learn, with regards to ship fits and fleet mechanics. Intended for any shield focused pilot, without bias. b. The Ditanian Fleet (TDF) - An Incursion Community focused on armor tanked ships. Also accepts any and all pilots willing to listen and learn, with regards to ship fits and fleet mechanics. Intended for any armor focused pilot, without bias. c. Incursion Shiny Network (ISN) - An Incursion Community focused on shield tanked ships, with the addition of ISK Per Hour being the fundamental strategy. Accepts pilots capable of flying specific ships, fit in a specific way, for the sake of efficiency and speed. Must be willing to listen and learn, with regards to ship fits and fleet mechanics. 1. MOM ROTATION: a. The Valhalla Project (TVP), The Ditanian Fleet (TDF), Incursion Shiny Network (ISN), followed by "Community X." b. All MOM Rotation slots are subject to being "Contested." 1a. COMMUNITY X: aa. Community X defined as any other willing Incursion Community with sufficient pilot numbers able to field a full SCOUT, VANGUARD, ASSAULT, HEADQUARTERS, and MOM fleet at the same time (roughly 130 pilots minimum) during their respective Incursion Community's Peak Playtime Hours. 1b. CONTESTED: ba. If any Incursion Community is incapable of fielding a full MOM fleet (at least 60 pilots) by the designated "Courtesy Time Frame," a welcomed and acceptable Contest shall be allowed, which may include any and all EVE Online Communities capable of fielding a full MOM fleet, regardless of MOM Rotation. 1a. COURTESY TIME FRAME: aa. A Courtesy Time Frame of 10 - 12 hours after the Incursion site has began Withdrawing. This Courtesy Time Frame is to allow all the Incursion Community to move themselves to the next high-sec Incursion site. If no new high-sec Incursion site is available upon reaching Courtesy Time Frame, then Courtesy Time Frame will be pushed back until an available high-sec Incursion site spawns. 2. PROPAGANDA: a. All Incursion Communities must agree to use no forms of Propaganda to belittle, harass, misinform, disrespect, falsely accuse, or otherwise deface or defame any other Incursion Community. 3. BAN LISTS: a. Any and all Ban Lists must be updated to remove no longer necessary character names, corporations, and/or alliances; updated Ban Lists are to be made available as public domain. 4. NINJA LOOTERS AND GRIEFERS: a. All Incursion Communities (labeled "Incursion Runners Community," here on IRC) must cease and desist Ninja Looting MOM Site Drops and the overall Griefing of Incursion sites. 1a. Incursion Runners Community (IRC): aa. IRC is defined as all Incursion Communities willing and able to sign this Agreement, despite having the pilot numbers to gain a MOM Rotation slot. ab. IRC should include a Panel of channel CEOs (labeled "Chief Executive Panel," here on CEP) which should also include Third Party "Civilian" members acting as their respective Community's Diplomat (labeled "Community 'Civilian' Diplomat," here on CCD). 1a. CCDs are to be chosen by either their respective Incursion Community as a whole or by IRC's CEP, in Good Faith. 1b. CCD's purpose is to help discuss and share view points which may be missed by IRCs CEP and be in no way biased toward any one community. 5. MOM SITE DROPS: a. MOM Site Drops are the sole property of the victors of MOM Site, which will be internally decided upon by the victor's Incursion Community CEOs as to how to handle MOM Site Drops, or by agreement of IRCs CEP, in Good Faith. 6. DECISION MAKING: a. No decisions can be made by any one Incursion Community, whether in Good Faith or not, without IRCs CEP being given the opportunity, with full Due-Diligence, to give opinion on the matter.
Very good proposition . |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
865
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 14:49:00 -
[52] - Quote
This crap is still allowed in hisec? Nerf again. Why did you take my wings away? |
Bruce Wie
Aliastra Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 15:37:00 -
[53] - Quote
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:TVP will never fly with ISN, because ISN are in fact griefing assholes. I have no affiliation with the leadership of TVP, however all you have to do is stop by the in game channel and this will be confirmed repeatedly.
A) isn do not grief they contect you dumbass B) Tvp pilots fly everyday with Isn or havent you been in ISn Secondary C) You mad bro
Your tinfoil hat is in the post. |
Bruce Wie
Aliastra Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 15:38:00 -
[54] - Quote
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Ghazu wrote:No it's you scrub fleets thats griefing by slowing things down for everyone then crying about it. Not by a longshot girlfriend. ISN runs with extra pilots so they are making less money. They slow down the ISK/hour for everyone including themselves. Open up your incursion journal and read it before you post about it kthxbye.
MMMM so 12 on gid is too many --- Grow up Oh and yes Maor tears ty Your tinfoil hat is in the post. |
retardedpandacake
Unicorns are REAL
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 16:08:00 -
[55] - Quote
don't need no agreement, it's a game, everyone should be able to complete all the content if they want to regardless of who they fly with. |
Drekarg
Exanimo Inc Anger Management.
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 16:12:00 -
[56] - Quote
Terrible carebears spitting their ISK dummies out of the pram, if you can't play nice with your incursion toy CCP should take it away!
There's that many of you in your respective groups you should stop this forum faggottry and get in game and fight it out if you care that much. |
Sean Whedon
Samsara. VINNANA
29
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 16:26:00 -
[57] - Quote
retardedpandacake wrote:don't need no agreement, it's a game, everyone should be able to complete all the content if they want to regardless of who they fly with. which ideally would work. unfortunately, channel CEOs are having their communities argue and take out MOM sites early just to spite the other community, leaving the incursion community to move every single day, waste lots of time contesting sites for the sake of preventing isk making of others and then requiring no one to ask the question of "why" and telling all to just do what you're told. drama left and right. no need for it. its spiteful and unnecessary, childish, and ridiculous. this is to prevent this from happening in future. so far, the "bad guys" are the only ones commenting about it being worth doing. the other community? well, the general pilots have EVE mailed me and convoed me privately to tell me im right and its dumb. the point is to prevent killing off the community and be sure no one tries to misuse their pilots/channel members for their own concept of whats right and wrong. Skill Guide - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=139973
Incursion Agreement - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1846944&#post1846944 |
retardedpandacake
Unicorns are REAL
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 16:42:00 -
[58] - Quote
The game is designed so that drama can happen so why prevent it? |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
286
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 18:01:00 -
[59] - Quote
LilRemmy wrote:I sign to have all incursions moved to lowsec and 0.0.
Tada!
WOW you NULL SECCerz are doing a GREAT JOB with them NULL Incursions, huh? Since the Escalation nerf not a single null/lo incursion has been killed by the players... they just stagnate & withdraw on thier own. So why should they be moved there when they are not being run? So us HI SEC pilots will come out & do your jobs for you I say if you guys in NULL/LO are not doing them, Incursions should all be moved to HI SEC along with the Revenant BPC drop =========================================================
EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Christine Peeveepeeski
The Imperial Fedaykin
130
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 18:20:00 -
[60] - Quote
OR you could gather your sizeable incursion community and go run them yourselves....
Just a thought. |
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goldiiee
Tax and War Haven
29
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 18:21:00 -
[61] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:LilRemmy wrote:I sign to have all incursions moved to lowsec and 0.0.
Tada! WOW you NULL SECCerz are doing a GREAT JOB with them NULL Incursions, huh? Since the Escalation nerf not a single null/lo incursion has been killed by the players... they just stagnate & withdraw on thier own. So why should they be moved there when they are not being run? So us HI SEC pilots will come out & do your jobs for you I say if you guys in NULL/LO are not doing them, Incursions should all be moved to HI SEC along with the Revenant BPC drop
+1 Getting it done is easy, dealing with drama not so much. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
287
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 18:31:00 -
[62] - Quote
I see that there is currently an NPC Angel NULL SEC space Incursion. Since NPC space like lo sec doesn't allow anyone to claim SOV there I wonder why the revenant BPC doesn't drop there too? I mean everyone want to fly a gigantic space turd correct ( except the space rich CSM )? =========================================================
EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Vrykolakasis
Trinity Operations Aurora Irae
60
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 18:47:00 -
[63] - Quote
Points:
All sites contestable.
Contesting is not griefing.
Low/Null Incursions are fun. |
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
115
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 19:28:00 -
[64] - Quote
Yeyra wrote:Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Yeyra wrote:Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Ghazu wrote:No it's you scrub fleets thats griefing by slowing things down for everyone then crying about it. Not by a longshot girlfriend. ISN runs with extra pilots so they are making less money. They slow down the ISK/hour for everyone including themselves. Open up your incursion journal and read it before you post about it kthxbye. So because ISN supposedly runs with extra pilots every incursion runner is making less money? That doesn't make any sense what so ever. I guess you don't run incursions. They contest you. Your fleet has enough pilots for full payout. Theirs has more pilots so less payout per pilot. If they win everyone makes less ISK. Since they have more ships, they usually win. When Incursions were full at least there was a reason to do it. Now its just indignant. You guessed wrong. I fly with ISN. I'm one of the "griefing assholes".
Then that makes you overtly full of **** for pretending to not understand the mechanics.
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4463
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 19:31:00 -
[65] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:LilRemmy wrote:I sign to have all incursions moved to lowsec and 0.0.
Tada! WOW you NULL SECCerz are doing a GREAT JOB with them NULL Incursions, huh? Since the Escalation nerf not a single null/lo incursion has been killed by the players... they just stagnate & withdraw on thier own. So why should they be moved there when they are not being run? So us HI SEC pilots will come out & do your jobs for you I say if you guys in NULL/LO are not doing them, Incursions should all be moved to HI SEC along with the Revenant BPC drop
why don't you go run the low/null ones? "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
115
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 19:40:00 -
[66] - Quote
Quote:I would like to update you.
ISN Mainly Runs Vanguard's and Assaults.
Vanguards 12 on grid
Assaults 20 on grid
HQ's 40 on grid
ISN is all about contesting and isk per hour, there is a lot of players who play for fun and other things, Our's is Isk, Slandering a community off isn't going to prove anything, Especially if you lack the correct information.
You are not a community, you are a fleet within the community. I have certainly run against ISN fleets with 14 and 15 pilots in VG's, contesting sites when there were open sites.
Quote:Most of these toons are known trolls or incursion griefers that love nothing more than seeing carebear tears. Most eveident from thier lack of attention to the main topic and the determination to swap focus from, how we can get along, to how we are getting more than we deserve.
Go find a low sec gate to camp while you play WOW rather than troll the forums.
I ran incursions daily till they nerfed VG's and still run assaults and HQ's for fun, not ISK per hour as missions tend to pay more these days. I paid direct attention to the main topic, as I am in TVP daily. I don't care if some people from TVP fly with ISN, most people in that fleet don't like ISN and complain about them daily. You try to p[aint me as an outsider looking in but you aren't in the channel in question, so YOU go back to WoW with your JR. High level logic. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4504
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 19:44:00 -
[67] - Quote
Andski wrote:/signed
sincerely, the only group to ever get the revenant BPC drops
Excuse me, but no. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Yeyra
Atlantean Defense Fleet In Umbra Mortis
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 19:57:00 -
[68] - Quote
Quote:Then that makes you overtly full of **** for pretending to not understand the mechanics.
Now I'm hurt.
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:You are not a community, you are a fleet within the community. I have certainly run against ISN fleets with 14 and 15 pilots in VG's, contesting sites when there were open sites.
14 and 15 pilots? Don't make me laugh. And yes, we're contesting sites when there are open sites. That's because ISN is all about the ISK/hr. But it's still not griefing.
Quote:I ran incursions daily till they nerfed VG's and still run assaults and HQ's for fun, not ISK per hour as missions tend to pay more these days. I paid direct attention to the main topic, as I am in TVP daily. I don't care if some people from TVP fly with ISN, most people in that fleet don't like ISN and complain about them daily. You try to paint me as an outsider looking in but you aren't in the channel in question, so YOU go back to WoW with your JR. High level logic.
Yes, many people in TVP complain about ISN, but the problem is they don't know anything about ISN. They just repeat what other people have said. And many in TVP are very gullible. |
BearJews
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
53
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 20:00:00 -
[69] - Quote
ISN does grief, and i find it funny that you'd like to make a contract for a game. lol. Good luck with that |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
287
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 20:03:00 -
[70] - Quote
Andski wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:LilRemmy wrote:I sign to have all incursions moved to lowsec and 0.0.
Tada! WOW you NULL SECCerz are doing a GREAT JOB with them NULL Incursions, huh? Since the Escalation nerf not a single null/lo incursion has been killed by the players... they just stagnate & withdraw on thier own. So why should they be moved there when they are not being run? So us HI SEC pilots will come out & do your jobs for you I say if you guys in NULL/LO are not doing them, Incursions should all be moved to HI SEC along with the Revenant BPC drop why don't you go run the low/null ones?
Done a few before the Escalation nerf not not really any afterwards TBH... when I saw 3 lo/null incursions I would zoom out & do a scoutso Icould get the Concord liberation message but I have not seen lo/null Incursion liberation messagesince before the Escalation patch =========================================================
EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... |
|
goldiiee
Tax and War Haven
29
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 20:07:00 -
[71] - Quote
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:TVP will never fly with ISN, because ISN are in fact griefers. I have no affiliation with the leadership of TVP, however all you have to do is stop by the in game channel and this will be confirmed repeatedly.
Of course your opinion should be noted since you post with an alt and give nothing more than fuel to a fire. Strange addiction you have.
Getting it done is easy, dealing with drama not so much. |
Liadan Khanum
Dragon Armed Mercenary Escort Squadron
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 20:13:00 -
[72] - Quote
An agreement that lessens strife between various communities is generally a good idea and if the various groups can find leaders who speak for them to agree to rules of behavior, well and good.
But what give you the right or authority to dictate terms to everyone else in EVE? If any other group for whatever reason (the incursion is in their home constellation, they have the numbers and experience to try it now, just to try something new and get a cool video, etc.) to tell them its not their turn and they need to wait until you find its the best time for you?
That's like saying that only the 'cool' kids (by your own definition of course) are the only one who can play on the swing set on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, then graciously allowing everyone else to play on them on Thursday, before starting all over again.
I know for sure that when incursions come to my constellation, I want it gone as soon as possible and would participate with whoever could make it go away the fastest. Shield fleet, Armor fleet, DPS or Logi, doesn't matter to me.
No on community owns eve (at least in hi-sec) , proposing an agreement that assumes you do is bound to fail. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
287
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 20:13:00 -
[73] - Quote
In the spirit of handing ISN an olive branch I think TVP & TDF should agree to let ISN have the Enka constellation all to thier own with no interference whatsoever =========================================================
EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2372
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 21:36:00 -
[74] - Quote
I have little doubt that this agreement will be fully embraced by all parties, and furthermore that it will be respected by the rest of the EVE community.
... no really...
.... seriously...
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4465
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 21:39:00 -
[75] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Done a few before the Escalation nerf not really any afterwards TBH... when I saw 3 lo/null incursions I would zoom out & do a scoutso Icould get the Concord liberation message but I have not seen lo/null Incursion liberation message since before the Escalation patch. You make a good point though I'm thinking with the OTAs no longer being the PITA they were over the summer lo/NULL Incursions are worth it again. Epecially since in lo now you easily know if you are in a congested FW system from looking at the UI.
Considering that the sites are balanced around being run with faction-fit pirate BS with deadspace hardeners thanks to the hisec min/maxers, how many people do you think will bother with low/null incursions? "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
IGNATIUS HOOD
Zephyr Corp Black Thorne Alliance
326
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 21:46:00 -
[76] - Quote
Andski wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Don't think Ive ever heard of a HI SEC Incursion MOM fleet were all members are in the same corp... even the ones Brick & Goons had had peeps in the same alliance but not in same corp so if NINJA looters where shot Concord kill most in the fleetthat tried to scram them generally if that was the case there were enough dudes from any given corp to kill a ninja looter on one hand, hisec incursion runners have to deal with *gasp* suicide blackbirds and ninja looters while lowsec dudes had to deal with things like R&K cynos going up the moment the mothership was popped, gangs coming by looking for kills, gate rats and other such things naturally the hisec incursion runners are in need of more immunity
This is exactly why I think HS Incursions are unrealistic. Its like the Germans get in their head march on Paris and then the French decide to let civilian militias deal with the threat. It makes absolutely no sense.
Incursions should be a LS and a NPC Null thing only. Either that, or Concord doesn't defend HS during an incursion and it behaves like LS.
No matter what, the forums are not the place for this. Its illogical, well reasoned but illogical, in the grand scheme of things.
'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim'
Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you.
~I fly spaceships~ |
IGNATIUS HOOD
Zephyr Corp Black Thorne Alliance
326
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 21:48:00 -
[77] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Andski wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:[quote=LilRemmy]I sign to have all incursions moved to lowsec and 0.0.
Tada! WOW you NULL SECCerz are doing a GREAT JOB with them NULL Incursions, huh? Since the Escalation nerf not a single null/lo incursion has been killed by the players... they just stagnate & withdraw on thier own. So why should they be moved there when they are not being run? So us HI SEC pilots will come out & do your jobs for you I say if you guys in NULL/LO are not doing them, Incursions should all be moved to HI SEC along with the Revenant BPC drop why don't you go run the low/null ones?
Why don't you?
Wait, wait, don't answer that. Its not easy farming while you're being shot at. No, its cool... I totally get it! 'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim'
Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you.
~I fly spaceships~ |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4466
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 22:27:00 -
[78] - Quote
IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:Why don't you? Wait, wait, don't answer that. Its not easy farming while you're being shot at. No, its cool... I totally get it!
believe it or not we used to run low/null incursions just fine until CCP decided to rework them around being run with ridiculous setups that nobody is going to fly outside of hisec
naturally they decided to do that instead of, you know, realizing that incursions in hisec are dumb as hell "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
115
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 05:11:00 -
[79] - Quote
goldiiee wrote:Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:TVP will never fly with ISN, because ISN are in fact griefers. I have no affiliation with the leadership of TVP, however all you have to do is stop by the in game channel and this will be confirmed repeatedly. Of course your opinion should be noted since you post with an alt and give nothing more than fuel to a fire. Strange addiction you have.
It took you longer to write that post than it would to verify what was posted. Fuel to the fire indeed. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
290
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 07:42:00 -
[80] - Quote
Andski wrote: Considering that the sites are balanced around being run with faction-fit pirate BS with deadspace hardeners thanks to the hisec min/maxers, how many people do you think will bother with low/null incursions?
I think you are correct: the Escalation nerf was done to fix the hisec min/maxers and ABSOLUTELY KILLED THE LO/NULL SEC incursions.... further the OTA sites were so badly designed that thay had just about killed HI SEC VG's also. tHIS WAS screamed at ccp before Escalation's release from SiSi to TQ but they did not listen & sat on it after incursions flat lined for 2 months.
I did not realize how bad the HI to null/lo assault & HQ imbalance was until the escalation nerf I DOUBT THE DEVs did either & when they 'fixed the Vanguard 'imbalance' they ARSERAPED LO/NULL SEC INCURSIONS... I guess the only lo/null HQ & Assault sites run was the MOM site PRE-ESCALATION?
I want to get lo sec incursions going again but armour Incursion fleets are barely treading water with FC's burning out from keeping HI SEC incursions alive over the summer until the WALL OF OTA's was broken 2 weeks ago
PS: THANKS CCP DEVs for the VG's now paying out the correct amounts since the last patch. =========================================================
EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... |
|
Sean Whedon
Samsara. VINNANA
29
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 10:18:00 -
[81] - Quote
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:goldiiee wrote:Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:TVP will never fly with ISN, because ISN are in fact griefers. I have no affiliation with the leadership of TVP, however all you have to do is stop by the in game channel and this will be confirmed repeatedly. Of course your opinion should be noted since you post with an alt and give nothing more than fuel to a fire. Strange addiction you have. It took you longer to write that post than it would to verify what was posted. Fuel to the fire indeed. ...soundwave, the person you are quoting is an ISN runner and does in fact have it right. The number of pilots they use has been determined to be the optimal fleet composition as far as isk/hour is concerned. They know what they are doing. And calling a COMMUNITY (how is a channel with 100+ pilots in it just a "fleet") griefers without acknowledging the same kinds of things are said in the other channels and even over comms both in and out of fleet, or even understanding that forcing THE ENTIRE eve online high-sec incursion community to run around daily due to a squabble with another channel is the biggest grief ever, tells me you are very biased in opinion.
I've edited the first post on this thread to answer some statements I've read so far.
I've also changed the number of pilots required to be offered a slot in MOM rotation and included non-MOM site rules as number 2. Skill Guide - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=139973
Incursion Agreement - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1846944&#post1846944 |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
12
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 11:12:00 -
[82] - Quote
And how exactly do you enforce this?
If you wanted to role play most international treaties (pointless and unenforceable) you're doing pretty well. |
Sean Whedon
Samsara. VINNANA
29
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 11:14:00 -
[83] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
And how exactly do you enforce this?
If you wanted to role play most international treaties (pointless and unenforceable) you're doing pretty well.
the channel CEOs would enforce this. they already enforce something like this, but nothing is on paper or available for the public. and this is meant as a foundation, not the final article (which is why the title says signed and discussed). Skill Guide - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=139973
Incursion Agreement - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1846944&#post1846944 |
Haqar
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 11:27:00 -
[84] - Quote
Easiest way to solve this clusterfuck is all highsec mom's should be going down at 'withdrawl' and everyone that can form a fleet should be able to sit at the gate, go in and contest for the mom sites if they so please. No rotation, no bs anymore
There is one thing im missing in this soap
You cant tell anyone how to play their game |
Booby McBooby
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 12:09:00 -
[85] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Ghazu wrote:No it's you scrub fleets thats griefing by slowing things down for everyone then crying about it. Not by a longshot girlfriend. ISN runs with extra pilots so they are making less money. They slow down the ISK/hour for everyone including themselves. Open up your incursion journal and read it before you post about it kthxbye. Explain to me how ISN's shorter minutes spent per site slows things down for everyone?
ISN run with 10 DPS and 2 logi and make around 8.8m per site, And because they run with mainly 1400's and Tach's they cannot complete the NCO's... So they do 2 sites out of the 3 in Vanguards.
So they either waste time by moving to another system for NMC's and OTA's or they waste time refiiting, Or waste time hanging around at the sun.
Now other communites who run "optimal" will run 8 DPS and 2 logi meaning they earn 10.4m per site. And i know of 2-3 other VG communties that run around the same time as ISN and dont have to refit/more system because they run ALL sites.
ICU and SAQD for example run around 90 - 120m per hour depending how many OTA's they get in within that Hour. ISN however despite what they tell you are on around 70 - 90m Per Hour.
|
Kodavor
Mine3
25
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 12:30:00 -
[86] - Quote
Booby McBooby wrote:Ghazu wrote:Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Ghazu wrote:No it's you scrub fleets thats griefing by slowing things down for everyone then crying about it. Not by a longshot girlfriend. ISN runs with extra pilots so they are making less money. They slow down the ISK/hour for everyone including themselves. Open up your incursion journal and read it before you post about it kthxbye. Explain to me how ISN's shorter minutes spent per site slows things down for everyone? ISN run with 10 DPS and 2 logi and make around 8.8m per site, And because they run with mainly 1400's and Tach's they cannot complete the NCO's... So they do 2 sites out of the 3 in Vanguards. So they either waste time by moving to another system for NMC's and OTA's or they waste time refiiting, Or waste time hanging around at the sun. Now other communites who run "optimal" will run 8 DPS and 2 logi meaning they earn 10.4m per site. And i know of 2-3 other VG communties that run around the same time as ISN and dont have to refit/more system because they run ALL sites. ICU and SAQD for example run around 90 - 120m per hour depending how many OTA's they get in within that Hour. ISN however despite what they tell you are on around 70 - 90m Per Hour.
2x Loki ( 5x720 + 5x fed web ) + Vindi (Rails) + 2x mach ( 1400's) + 2xMare ( Tachs) + 3x Pulses / 800's = 4 min OTA's , 5 min NMC's , 6 min NCO's . No swaping and no nothing . Granted all are ISN doctrine fits .
Results may vary depending on the FC's ability to compose the fleet . If any pilot feels that the FC is uderperforming he needs to mail his complain to ISN officers or management .
|
Kodavor
Mine3
25
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 12:31:00 -
[87] - Quote
Having said that, those of you who are not prive to what's been going on have written: 1. Too much politics, 2. Who are you to write this, 3. Incursions are unrealistic, 4. ISN are griefers, 5. TVP acts like they can run things. I will answer some of these now:
1. True. Why? The big name channels have enough of a pilot base to have free reign over almost every AS and HQ site, while also usually being the first group ready to "pop" the MOM. Initially, there was an agreement made out with rotations signed by most of the better-known communities. This agreement has since been broken and instead of trying to fix it, things were pushed further towards chaos. Everyday, high-sec incursion runner has been forced to pick up and move because it was decided that having only one high-sec incursion available at any given time would ensure certain communities would have little to no say. Supposedly, this would hurt the isk/hour ratio of the marked community. However, one of the last incursions had 6 of 9 top LP earners coming from that marked community, proving what is actually being accomplished is trolling and griefing every EVE Online incursion runner. This arguing and assumption needs to stop, as it now affects everyone.
2. Who I am to write this is a mature, non-biased pilot, with only the incursion public in mind. I have spoken directly to channel CEOs both involved and not involved to get an idea of the main issues they have witnessed.
3. Unrelated.
4 and 5. The few do not truly represent the whole.
------------------------------
HIGH-SEC INCURSION RUNNERS COMMUNITY AGREEMENT (HIRCA)
0. INTRODUCTION TO CHANNELS: a. The Valhalla Project (TVP) - An Incursion Community focused on shield tanked ships. Accepts any and all pilots willing to listen and learn, with regards to ship fits and fleet mechanics. Intended for any shield focused pilot, without bias.
b. The Ditanian Fleet (TDF) - An Incursion Community focused on armor tanked ships. Also accepts any and all pilots willing to listen and learn, with regards to ship fits and fleet mechanics. Intended for any armor focused pilot, without bias.
c. Incursion Shiny Network (ISN) - An Incursion Community focused on shield tanked ships, with the addition of ISK Per Hour being the fundamental strategy. Accepts pilots capable of flying specific ships, fit in a specific way, for the sake of efficiency and speed. Must be willing to listen and learn, with regards to ship fits and fleet mechanics.
1. MOM ROTATION: a. The Valhalla Project (TVP), The Ditanian Fleet (TDF), Incursion Shiny Network (ISN), followed by "Community X." b. All MOM Rotation slots are subject to "Contest."
1a. COMMUNITY X: aa. Community X defined as any other willing Incursion Community with sufficient pilot numbers able to field a full SCOUT, VANGUARD, ASSAULT, and HEADQUARTERS fleet at the same time (roughly 70 pilots minimum) during their respective Incursion Community's Peak Playtime Hours.
1b. CONTEST: aa. If any Incursion Community is incapable of fielding a full MOM fleet (at least 60 pilots) by the designated "Courtesy Time Frame," a welcomed and acceptable Contest shall be allowed, which may include any and all EVE Online Communities capable of fielding a full MOM fleet, regardless of MOM Rotation.
1a. COURTESY TIME FRAME: aa. A Courtesy Time Frame of 10 - 12 hours after the Incursion site has began Withdrawing. This Courtesy Time Frame is to allow all the Incursion Community to move themselves to the next high-sec Incursion site. If no new high-sec Incursion site is available upon reaching Courtesy Time Frame, then Courtesy Time Frame will be pushed back until an available high-sec Incursion site spawns.
2. NON-MOM SITES: a. Non-Rotational free-for-all. Any EVE Online Incursion Community, despite Agreement signatory status. Contests are welcomed when done in Good Faith.
3. PROPAGANDA: a. All Incursion Communities must agree to use no forms of Propaganda to belittle, harass, misinform, disrespect, falsely accuse, or otherwise deface or defame any other Incursion Community.
4. BAN LISTS: a. Any and all Ban Lists must be updated to remove no longer necessary character names, corporations, and/or alliances; updated Ban Lists are to be made available as public domain.
5. NINJA LOOTERS AND GRIEFERS: a. All Incursion Communities (labeled "Incursion Runners Community," here on IRC) must cease and desist Ninja Looting MOM Site Drops and the overall Griefing of Incursion sites.
1a. Incursion Runners Community (IRC): aa. IRC is defined as all Incursion Communities willing and able to sign this Agreement, despite having the pilot numbers to gain a MOM Rotation slot.
ab. IRC should include a Panel of channel CEOs (labeled "Chief Executive Panel," here on CEP) which should also include Third Party "Civilian" members acting as their respective Community's Diplomat (labeled "Community 'Civilian' Diplomat," here on CCD).
1a. CCDs are to be chosen by either their respective Incursion Community as a whole or by IRC's CEP, in Good Faith. 1b. CCD's purpose is to help discuss and share view points which may be missed by IRCs CEP and be in no way biased toward any one community.
6. MOM SITE DROPS: a. MOM Site Drops are the sole property of the victors of MOM Site, which will be internally decided upon by the victor's Incursion Community CEOs as to how to handle MOM Site Drops, or by agreement of IRCs CEP, in Good Faith.
7. DECISION MAKING: a. No decisions can be made by any one Incursion Community, whether in Good Faith or not, without IRCs CEP being given the opportunity, with full Due-Diligence, to give opinion on the matter.[/quote]
|
Sexy Cakes
Poasting
83
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 12:52:00 -
[88] - Quote
So heres a recap:
TVP talks ****.
ISN calls their bluff.
TVP lashes out by taking down mom early.
ISN still rapes them on LP.
TVP wants a treaty.
Confirming TVP is terrible. Not today spaghetti. |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1306
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 12:59:00 -
[89] - Quote
Hisec moms should be killed the moment they spawn
'non-incursion' pilots should form fleets regularly to do this just for the epic tears it generates My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2375
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 13:43:00 -
[90] - Quote
I think you should keep in mind that if you intend on milking these Incursions, you are doing so at the expense of the rest of the community. Incursions are very disruptive to the people that live in those systems, and prolonging the event will not be received well.
I would suggest you focus on completing them quickly, otherwise the community make take these decisions out of your hands. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
|
goldiiee
Tax and War Haven
30
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 14:24:00 -
[91] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:I think you should keep in mind that if you intend on milking these Incursions, you are doing so at the expense of the rest of the community. Incursions are very disruptive to the people that live in those systems, and prolonging the event will not be received well.
I would suggest you focus on completing them quickly, otherwise the community make take these decisions out of your hands.
I was part of a 'Community' 500 members that attempted to take an incursion down so our alliance could get back to mining and mission running, it was the catalysts that got me into Incursion running. Most mission runners will know that an incursion site is nothing to be triffled with, and as far as miner or market toon, well, the community loves picking up their wrecks from failed attempts.
For local corps and alliances that are put out by the Incursion in their system I would suggest they try to fly with one of the groups to see how they are run. Then if they have the strength and numbers they should take out the MoM site. It makes sense as they are in the position to make the most from it. Just form up a fleet of 30 to 60 toons capable of tanking in excess of 2500-5000 dps and 14k volleys call your targets to remove the most dangerouse rats from the field first. focus firepower on the carrier and do a little over 1.5million points of damage on a ship with 90% resists across the board, do all this at once and 'Voila' the Incursion will be removed from your constelation.
The reason incursion communities fly such exspensive fleets is not so much that they can, but more that they should. and when thing go wrong the work of 12 players and near 100 billion isk worth of hard work becomes an unretrievable wreck.
So go find a beacon and activate the gate whats the worse that can happen? Getting it done is easy, dealing with drama not so much. |
IGNATIUS HOOD
Zephyr Corp Black Thorne Alliance
327
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 16:20:00 -
[92] - Quote
Andski wrote:IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:Why don't you? Wait, wait, don't answer that. Its not easy farming while you're being shot at. No, its cool... I totally get it! believe it or not we used to run low/null incursions just fine until CCP decided to rework them around being run with ridiculous setups that nobody is going to fly outside of hisec naturally they decided to do that instead of, you know, realizing that incursions in hisec are dumb as hell
This was more directed at Darth then you Andski. I could have made that clearer. 'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim'
Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you.
~I fly spaceships~ |
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
117
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 05:13:00 -
[93] - Quote
Quote:...soundwave, the person you are quoting is an ISN runner and does in fact have it right. The number of pilots they use has been determined to be the optimal fleet composition as far as isk/hour is concerned. They know what they are doing
When my main gets unbanned I'll post some of the 14 people grief fleets I have been in, in ISN, and the chat logs. |
Kodavor
Mine3
25
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 06:56:00 -
[94] - Quote
Sean Whedon wrote:This was written by me and me alone with the intention of solidifying all Incursion Communities. Having said that, those of you who are not prive to what's been going on have written: 1. Too much politics, 2. Who are you to write this, 3. Incursions are unrealistic, 4. ISN are griefers, 5. TVP acts like they can run things. I will answer some of these now: 1. True. Why? The big name channels have enough of a pilot base to have free reign over almost every AS and HQ site, while also usually being the first group ready to "pop" the MOM. Initially, there was an agreement made out with rotations signed by most of the better-known communities. This agreement has since been broken and instead of trying to fix it, things were pushed further towards chaos. Everyday, high-sec incursion runner has been forced to pick up and move because it was decided that having only one high-sec incursion available at any given time would ensure certain communities would have little to no say. Supposedly, this would hurt the isk/hour ratio of the marked community. However, one of the last incursions had 6 of 9 top LP earners coming from that marked community, proving what is actually being accomplished is trolling and griefing every EVE Online incursion runner. This arguing and assumption needs to stop, as it now affects everyone. 2. Who I am to write this is a mature, non-biased pilot, with only the incursion public in mind. I have spoken directly to channel CEOs both involved and not involved to get an idea of the main issues they have witnessed. 3. Unrelated. 4 and 5. The few do not truly represent the whole. -------- HIGH-SEC INCURSION RUNNERS COMMUNITY AGREEMENT (HIRCA) 0. INTRODUCTION TO CHANNELS: a. The Valhalla Project (TVP) - An Incursion Community focused on shield tanked ships. Accepts any and all pilots willing to listen and learn, with regards to ship fits and fleet mechanics. Intended for any shield focused pilot, without bias. b. The Ditanian Fleet (TDF) - An Incursion Community focused on armor tanked ships. Also accepts any and all pilots willing to listen and learn, with regards to ship fits and fleet mechanics. Intended for any armor focused pilot, without bias. c. Incursion Shiny Network (ISN) - An Incursion Community focused on shield tanked ships, with the addition of ISK Per Hour being the fundamental strategy. Accepts pilots capable of flying specific ships, fit in a specific way, for the sake of efficiency and speed. Must be willing to listen and learn, with regards to ship fits and fleet mechanics. 1. MOM ROTATION: a. The Valhalla Project (TVP), The Ditanian Fleet (TDF), Incursion Shiny Network (ISN), followed by "Community X." b. All MOM Rotation slots are subject to "Contest." 1a. COMMUNITY X: aa. Community X defined as any other willing Incursion Community with sufficient pilot numbers able to field a full SCOUT, VANGUARD, ASSAULT, and HEADQUARTERS fleet at the same time (roughly 70 pilots minimum) during their respective Incursion Community's Peak Playtime Hours. 1b. CONTEST: aa. If any Incursion Community is incapable of fielding a full MOM fleet (at least 60 pilots) by the designated "Courtesy Time Frame," a welcomed and acceptable Contest shall be allowed, which may include any and all EVE Online Communities capable of fielding a full MOM fleet, regardless of MOM Rotation. 1a. COURTESY TIME FRAME: aa. A Courtesy Time Frame of 10 - 12 hours after the Incursion site has began Withdrawing. This Courtesy Time Frame is to allow all the Incursion Community to move themselves to the next high-sec Incursion site. If no new high-sec Incursion site is available upon reaching Courtesy Time Frame, then Courtesy Time Frame will be pushed back until an available high-sec Incursion site spawns. 2. NON-MOM SITES: a. Non-Rotational free-for-all. Any EVE Online Incursion Community, despite Agreement signatory status. Contests are welcomed when done in Good Faith. 3. PROPAGANDA: a. All Incursion Communities must agree to use no forms of Propaganda to belittle, harass, misinform, disrespect, falsely accuse, or otherwise deface or defame any other Incursion Community. 4. BAN LISTS: a. Any and all Ban Lists must be updated to remove no longer necessary character names, corporations, and/or alliances; updated Ban Lists are to be made available as public domain. 5. NINJA LOOTERS AND GRIEFERS: a. All Incursion Communities (labeled "Incursion Runners Community," here on IRC) must cease and desist Ninja Looting MOM Site Drops and the overall Griefing of Incursion sites. 1a. Incursion Runners Community (IRC): aa. IRC is defined as all Incursion Communities willing and able to sign this Agreement, despite having the pilot numbers to gain a MOM Rotation slot. ab. IRC should include a Panel of channel CEOs (labeled "Chief Executive Panel," here on CEP) which should also include Third Party "Civilian" members acting as their respective Community's Diplomat (labeled "Community 'Civilian' Diplomat," here on CCD). 1a. CCDs are to be chosen by either their respective Incursion Community as a whole or by IRC's CEP, in Good Faith. 1b. CCD's purpose is to help discuss and share view points which may be missed by IRCs CEP and be in no way biased toward any one community. 6. MOM SITE DROPS: a. MOM Site Drops are the sole property of the victors of MOM Site, which will be internally decided upon by the victor's Incursion Community CEOs as to how to handle MOM Site Drops, or by agreement of IRCs CEP, in Good Faith. 7. DECISION MAKING: a. No decisions can be made by any one Incursion Community, whether in Good Faith or not, without IRCs CEP being given the opportunity, with full Due-Diligence, to give opinion on the matter.
|
Ghazu
65
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 07:15:00 -
[95] - Quote
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Quote:...soundwave, the person you are quoting is an ISN runner and does in fact have it right. The number of pilots they use has been determined to be the optimal fleet composition as far as isk/hour is concerned. They know what they are doing When my main gets unbanned I'll post some of the 14 people ISN grief fleets I have been in, and the chat logs. EDIT: It kind of reminds me of when "they" said the faction warfare exploit was not an exploit. The tears I got on twitter re-posting the Devs' decision on that were the best I have had yet. If ISN is not currently griefing by intentionally running too many pilots, then so be it. They have a reputation for griefing and everybody knows it. I have not flown with every incursion group, but every group I have flown with thinks they are griefers.
Don't they run with more pilots so they need less minutes per site completion which results in increased isk/hr? How is that griefing? |
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
117
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 08:12:00 -
[96] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:
Don't they run with more pilots so they need less minutes per site completion which results in increased isk/hr? How is that griefing?
Adding pilots dramatically reduces the payout. Completing the sites faster is irrelevant while contesting because you have to switch systems. I have had ISN follow the fleet I was in (to another system) half a dozen times in one hour. |
Kodavor
Mine3
25
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 08:31:00 -
[97] - Quote
Quote: I have had ISN follow the fleet I was in (to another system) half a dozen times in one hour.
Half a dozen times = 6 times . There are 60 minutes in one hour . Assuming that you warped to a beacon after jumping systems it would take about 3 - 4 minutes for each gate jump . 4x 6 = 24 min . Are you saying that Two VG flees were randomly warping around 2 solar systems and jumping gates for a whole half an hour ? For me to believe this I would definately need a video that is 24 minutes long showing 2 VG fleets jumping gates for half an hour non stop .
You mister are " Misinforming " others . |
Yeyra
Atlantean Defense Fleet In Umbra Mortis
3
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Posted - 2012.08.29 08:59:00 -
[98] - Quote
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Adding pilots dramatically reduces the payout.
And why is that griefing?
Quote:Completing the sites faster is irrelevant while contesting because you have to switch systems.
No, you don't. |
Ghazu
66
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 11:27:00 -
[99] - Quote
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Ghazu wrote:
Don't they run with more pilots so they need less minutes per site completion which results in increased isk/hr? How is that griefing?
Adding pilots dramatically reduces the payout. Completing the sites faster is irrelevant while contesting because you have to switch systems. I have had ISN follow the fleet I was in (to another system) half a dozen times in one hour.
Why would they do that to grief you? I am sure they did the math, and whatever they were doing was for the most isk/hour. This may mean that their method requires more sites to be completed per hour to remain efficient, and it just happened that you guys were in the way?
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Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
23
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 11:32:00 -
[100] - Quote
Sean Whedon wrote:Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
And how exactly do you enforce this?
If you wanted to role play most international treaties (pointless and unenforceable) you're doing pretty well.
the channel CEOs would enforce this. they already enforce something like this, but nothing is on paper or available for the public. and this is meant as a foundation, not the final article (which is why the title says signed and discussed).
Ahhh so you ARE roleplaying an international treaty.
You know the ones that all the countries sign and then do nothing about the moment it inconveniences them because there's no-one who can possibly make them do it?
Yeah good plan mate because they work so well.
I like the cut of your jib, who doesn't love mounds of meaningless documents and paperwork for people to sign up |
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Soundwave Plays Diablo
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
119
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 18:25:00 -
[101] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Ghazu wrote:
Don't they run with more pilots so they need less minutes per site completion which results in increased isk/hr? How is that griefing?
Adding pilots dramatically reduces the payout. Completing the sites faster is irrelevant while contesting because you have to switch systems. I have had ISN follow the fleet I was in (to another system) half a dozen times in one hour. Why would they do that to grief you? I am sure they did the math, and whatever they were doing was for the most isk/hour. This may mean that their method requires more sites to be completed per hour to remain efficient, and it just happened that you guys were in the way?
1/10.
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goldiiee
Tax and War Haven
30
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 22:41:00 -
[102] - Quote
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Ghazu wrote:Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Ghazu wrote:
Don't they run with more pilots so they need less minutes per site completion which results in increased isk/hr? How is that griefing?
Adding pilots dramatically reduces the payout. Completing the sites faster is irrelevant while contesting because you have to switch systems. I have had ISN follow the fleet I was in (to another system) half a dozen times in one hour. Why would they do that to grief you? I am sure they did the math, and whatever they were doing was for the most isk/hour. This may mean that their method requires more sites to be completed per hour to remain efficient, and it just happened that you guys were in the way? 1/10.
Sadly it took me a little while to realize your problem, and to try to and help you resolve the confusion you are having. Most likely you were the victim of two or three ISN fleets, as most constellations have two or three VG systems we split our members into several fleets and cover as many systems as required to keep them all making ISK and not running into each other. This might be the a solution to your confusion that ISN is a small community we frequently have over 60 members online and usually have 30 members running 2 to 3 fleets at all times. Add to that our maxed out mindlinked OGBGÇÖs, and the complimentary ORE drop provided for all fleets from an Orca and, I can see how it would seem we are everywhere all at once.
You might not know this either but if you open the journal and look in the incursion tab you can see in the second GÇÿsub tabGÇÖ the descriptions of the sites and the number of ships allowed to participate before the pay is reduced, I can only assume you have never read these or you would already know that the max number of ships versus the minimum pay drops at 12, and further at 13, then to almost nothing for any number above that, we also read those GÇÿtabsGÇÖ in game and made our fleets accordingly.
I am pleased I was able to answer these points you had, since now it is obvious that ISN wasnGÇÖt griefing you: you just didnGÇÖt understand the game and the mechanics involved. I hope this advice helps you to read up on EVE-Online and find more interesting things there are to do in this game. Getting it done is easy, dealing with drama not so much. |
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
119
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 03:50:00 -
[103] - Quote
Quote:I am pleased I was able to answer these points you had, since now it is obvious that ISN wasnGÇÖt griefing you: you just didnGÇÖt understand the game and the mechanics involved. I hope this advice helps you to read up on EVE-Online and find some of the more interesting things there are to do in this game. Hopefully you will be better at them.
Your intellectual dishonesty is legendary. |
Yeyra
Atlantean Defense Fleet
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 05:33:00 -
[104] - Quote
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Quote:I am pleased I was able to answer these points you had, since now it is obvious that ISN wasnGÇÖt griefing you: you just didnGÇÖt understand the game and the mechanics involved. I hope this advice helps you to read up on EVE-Online and find some of the more interesting things there are to do in this game. Hopefully you will be better at them.
Your intellectual dishonesty is legendary.
How about proving that goldiiee isn't telling the truth? |
Ghazu
69
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 07:24:00 -
[105] - Quote
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Quote:I am pleased I was able to answer these points you had, since now it is obvious that ISN wasnGÇÖt griefing you: you just didnGÇÖt understand the game and the mechanics involved. I hope this advice helps you to read up on EVE-Online and find some of the more interesting things there are to do in this game. Hopefully you will be better at them.
Your intellectual dishonesty is legendary. You must be too distraught with grief to comprehend. |
Blawrf McTaggart
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1391
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 14:45:00 -
[106] - Quote
nerds |
Lag Amplifier
Antigamers INC
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 00:48:00 -
[107] - Quote
ISN HQ Fleet Vs TVP HQ Fleet
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1717
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 04:44:00 -
[108] - Quote
Krissada wrote:Hehehe.... I can't wait to get my hands on you again GÖÑ
I am going to be grinning over that post for a while. |
Vrykolakasis
Trinity Operations Aurora Irae
63
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 07:40:00 -
[109] - Quote
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote: Words.
CCP, I hate to sound harsh, but I do think EVE should have a minimum age requirement to play. Your game is phenomenal, but maybe a little too emotionally difficult for young minds.
Plus with an age requirement you can add the Incarna "special content." |
Ludus Lucrius
No Rest 4 d Wicked
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 11:46:00 -
[110] - Quote
Hi
My 5 cents however worthless it might be :-)
No rotation. Kill MOM when it withdraws. If u have the will and numbers form up and contest it.
Communities that signed agreement might agree to auction the loot and split the profits among communities involved in MOM takedown (equally or in agreed upon shares or terms) to benefit their communities in some way (f.e. SRF ship replacement fund).
Or : If u want to give a chance to new incursioners to try out MOM sites u should stick to 1 for shield pilots 1 for armor pilots 1 for contesting. Among shield and armor communities u might assign communities who will make the core of the fleet that will help bring MOM site experience to new interested pilots.
Ludus
"Velle Est Posse" |
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Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
145
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 12:23:00 -
[111] - Quote
James 315 wrote:You call that a code? That's not a code. This is a code. Clearly written by a Delusional Crackpot. Get some help quickly... |
James 315
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2550
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 02:52:00 -
[112] - Quote
Doc Severide wrote:James 315 wrote:You call that a code? That's not a code. This is a code. Clearly written by a Delusional Crackpot. Get some help quickly... What are you talking about? I wrote that Code myself.
...And what part do you disagree with? If nothing, then what does that make you?
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½The daily saga of one man's quest to bring civilization to highsec by bumping miners out of range. |
Rio Bravo
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
5
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 22:28:00 -
[113] - Quote
ISN are griefers, no question. To deny is just words, actions beleye the contrary claim. I don't really give a damn, but if CCP wanted to make it "fairer" they would lock the site gate until the second wave. Too many people who aren't even in ISN don't want this. Some even in the same fleet as myself when we were being grieved. I have become resigned to the fact that if people in EvE **** me off enough, I just stop playing. I can't speak for anyone else. Lots of other things to spend money on, than hanging out with people who TRY and make you misserable. So there lol.
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1637
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 22:59:00 -
[114] - Quote
Thread moved from GD to Missions & Complexes - ISD Type40. ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Nadia Gallen
Advanced Engineering and Research Division
6
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 00:10:00 -
[115] - Quote
that would be why I hadn't read this before.
I was almost afraid I had missed this, but got futher confused when reading the first posts, realizing this was ancient information.
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Freundliches Feuer
Z0MBIELAND Double Tap.
17
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 10:37:00 -
[116] - Quote
Blawrf McTaggart wrote:nerds
+1
Stupid carebears arguing over some carebear sh*t |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
281
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 11:29:00 -
[117] - Quote
Well, i can see where the next carebear tears are going to come from. |
Herr Ronin
The Syndemic Chained Reactions
290
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 12:02:00 -
[118] - Quote
Freundliches Feuer wrote:Blawrf McTaggart wrote:nerds +1 Stupid carebears arguing over some carebear sh*t
Say's the Carebear who "used" to do Incursions, grown some teeth recently? you should stop shaving the fur you know, it cause's rashes.
Carebears these days.. | Herr Ronin For CSM 8 | Skype: Herr-Ronin | Twitter: @Herr_Ronin |
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Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
107
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 15:49:00 -
[119] - Quote
If I could, I should do all mom sites alone, just to grief all of you! Play for fun and let the best (player or group) win............ nothing more or less.
What's next? Miners going to argue witch belt is who's??? |
Kodavor
Jesus Saves .
37
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 16:30:00 -
[120] - Quote
Flurk Hellbron wrote:If I could, I should do all mom sites alone, just to grief all of you! Play for fun and let the best (player or group) win............ nothing more or less.
What's next? Miners going to argue witch belt is who's???
Sir ! This rock is mine so I mine what is mine . Could you please not mine mine rock ? Because if you do then you will be griefing me for 300 units of veldspar ! |
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Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
100
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 18:22:00 -
[121] - Quote
The only real rule should be: wait until the mom withdraws, and if you have the numbers and can do it, go for it.
This is sandbox for a reason. You cant tell someone what to do and what not to do.
Also, for the people that are new to incursions, there's no problem to make mixed fleets with armor and shield wings. The only real problem that arises is mom loot distribution, but incursion channels should have more dependable way of maintaining replacement funds anyway.
Current way, of one incursion that's focus, forces everyone at the same incursion area. That leads to overpopulation and less ISK for everyone. It must be changed so that multiple incursions are done like before, so that incursion runners can be pretty certain incursion they run will be popped when it withdraws. From that POV my proposal makes sense. |
Rio Bravo
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
5
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:51:00 -
[122] - Quote
Oh, well, it's just a game... |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
382
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 06:14:00 -
[123] - Quote
Kodavor wrote:Flurk Hellbron wrote:If I could, I should do all mom sites alone, just to grief all of you! Play for fun and let the best (player or group) win............ nothing more or less.
What's next? Miners going to argue witch belt is who's??? Sir ! This rock is mine so I mine what is mine . Could you please not mine mine rock ? Because if you do then you will be griefing me for 300 units of veldspar !
MINE Nostalgie ist die Faehigkeit, darueber zu trauern, dass es nicht mehr so ist, wie es frueher nicht gewesen ist. -- Manfred Rommel-á |
Freundliches Feuer
Z0MBIELAND Double Tap.
17
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 08:40:00 -
[124] - Quote
Herr Ronin wrote:Freundliches Feuer wrote:Blawrf McTaggart wrote:nerds +1 Stupid carebears arguing over some carebear sh*t Say's the Carebear who "used" to do Incursions, grown some teeth recently? you should stop shaving the fur you know, it cause's rashes. Carebears these days..
LOL
Your kb: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Herr+Ronin
My kb: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Freundliches+Feuer
Your lame bear argument is invalid. Keep "runin dem fleets bro". You might grown a brain and learn to pvp one day. |
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