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Ivo Eeinhad
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.03.17 18:39:00 -
[1]
Wondering if anyone else is experiencing this. Scenario: I fly a mission, encounter frigates (or etc that I wish to engage with drones) and deploy drones to deal with them. Drones attack and do there intended damage. Once the npc gets in range I enable a webifier on it. The drones stop doing damage until I disengage the webifier. Does webifier only work on other players regarding drones? It ofc helps with tracking when using turrets or other. Have not petitioned this yet though.
Normal specs: Paladin marauder, Infiltrator/acolyte t2¦s.
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Cyrus Mierre
The Forsaken Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.17 19:53:00 -
[2]
I seem to remember this (or something very similar) being a problem quite a while ago, but they fixed it. I'd be surprised if the problem is back again, no-one has mentioned it =/
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Cindy Marco
Minmatar The Warp Rats Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2011.03.17 20:28:00 -
[3]
Webbing fast NPCs can make it much harder for drones to hit due to tracking. It depends on your drone skills and the npc's speed.
If they are flying normally and close to the speed of the drones they will follow and have near 0 angular velocity. If they are a little faster/slower drones will have a slow orbit of them.
Once you web it you can slow it down to the point where your drones get into a tight circular orbit, at which point angular velocity is much higher.
ôLife is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves.ö - Bill Hicks |
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.03.17 20:33:00 -
[4]
It sounds like a bug. Light/Medium drones should be able to hit anything that is slowed down 90% ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
Kneebone
Heathens' Harbor
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Posted - 2011.03.17 21:21:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Patient 2428190 It sounds like a bug. Light/Medium drones should be able to hit anything that is slowed down 90%
With the drone changes a while back Medium drones will have a problem hitting webbed frigs, angels in particular, without an Omni as I recall. They are able to hit them when they are moving faster because they are chasing them and the transversal is down. When they are slowed down the drones go into an orbit and get tracking problems.
this shouldn't be an issue with Light drones. What kind were you using?
It could just be that the purpose of your life is to server as a warning to others. |
Kriminal Ahn'Khor
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Posted - 2011.03.17 23:11:00 -
[6]
Same thing happened to me and I kinda figured the speed of my drones targeting ability was affected but... what about my ship. If I web a NPC frigate down to 90% wouldn't I have a better chance of hitting it with my own guns now?
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Cindy Marco
Minmatar The Warp Rats Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2011.03.17 23:28:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Cindy Marco on 17/03/2011 23:31:50
Originally by: Kriminal Ahn'Khor Same thing happened to me and I kinda figured the speed of my drones targeting ability was affected but... what about my ship. If I web a NPC frigate down to 90% wouldn't I have a better chance of hitting it with my own guns now?
Generally yes, but not always.
Its the same thing as the drones example, if you don't fly manually and let the EVE client do it for you, it could make it worse. For example if an npc is about the same speed as you they will have almost no angular velocity to you. Because as they try to orbit they end up traveling in close to a straight line. But if you webbed them you would start to orbit them and you would have a higher angular speed.
ôLife is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves.ö - Bill Hicks |
Ap0stasy Jita
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Posted - 2011.03.17 23:51:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kneebone
Originally by: Patient 2428190 It sounds like a bug. Light/Medium drones should be able to hit anything that is slowed down 90%
With the drone changes a while back Medium drones will have a problem hitting webbed frigs, angels in particular, without an Omni as I recall. They are able to hit them when they are moving faster because they are chasing them and the transversal is down. When they are slowed down the drones go into an orbit and get tracking problems.
this shouldn't be an issue with Light drones. What kind were you using?
WTF! They can't track their own orbit speed?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.18 00:01:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ap0stasy Jita WTF! They can't track their own orbit speed?
Sure they can, as long as they're tracking the right size target. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Kriminal Ahn'Khor
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Posted - 2011.03.18 03:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kriminal Ahn'Khor Same thing happened to me and I kinda figured the speed of my drones targeting ability was affected but... what about my ship. If I web a NPC frigate down to 90% wouldn't I have a better chance of hitting it with my own guns now?
Generally yes, but not always.
Its the same thing as the drones example, if you don't fly manually and let the EVE client do it for you, it could make it worse. For example if an npc is about the same speed as you they will have almost no angular velocity to you. Because as they try to orbit they end up traveling in close to a straight line. But if you webbed them you would start to orbit them and you would have a higher angular speed.
And if my ship is standing still and the NPC is webbed then my chance of making a hit should be far greater... and in my case it still didn't make any difference.
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.03.18 03:24:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ap0stasy Jita
Originally by: Kneebone
Originally by: Patient 2428190 It sounds like a bug. Light/Medium drones should be able to hit anything that is slowed down 90%
With the drone changes a while back Medium drones will have a problem hitting webbed frigs, angels in particular, without an Omni as I recall. They are able to hit them when they are moving faster because they are chasing them and the transversal is down. When they are slowed down the drones go into an orbit and get tracking problems.
this shouldn't be an issue with Light drones. What kind were you using?
WTF! They can't track their own orbit speed?
as Tippia said, if you're trying to kill elite frigates with ogres you're doing it wrong. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2011.03.18 03:43:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton on 18/03/2011 03:43:10
Originally by: Grimpak as Tippia said, if you're trying to kill elite frigates with ogres you're doing it wrong.
actually ogres are fantastic against elite frigs, the ogre pulses its mwd to catch up to the frig once caught up it slows down and the frig is faster and starts pulling away at near 0 transversial and the ogres usually one shot them, with no drone mods whatsoever!
but yea it is entirely possible that the scout drones are just orbiting too fast to hit the npc frigs well
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Grog Barrel
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Posted - 2011.03.18 04:30:00 -
[13]
I ve seen this issue when using a paladin + single web. The slower the webbed ship gets, the less hit my drones. Sometimes is it so bad that your drones miss every hit. I learned to just let frigates alone so that my hobglobins hit the crap and basically use the web for cruisers and BS trying to get away.
so... confirming this is an issue which needs a fix.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.18 04:45:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Zhim''Fufu on 18/03/2011 04:55:16
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton on 18/03/2011 03:43:10
Originally by: Grimpak as Tippia said, if you're trying to kill elite frigates with ogres you're doing it wrong.
actually ogres are fantastic against elite frigs, the ogre pulses its mwd to catch up to the frig once caught up it slows down and the frig is faster and starts pulling away at near 0 transversial and the ogres usually one shot them, with no drone mods whatsoever!
but yea it is entirely possible that the scout drones are just orbiting too fast to hit the npc frigs well
In fw I had awesome results with beserkers in my geddon. They hit dessys and scramming frigs just fine and it was always funny to hear the rage in local when someone noticed heavy drones killed their af. As far as the light or medium drones not hitting webbed frigates that because they can't track near immobile low sig radius targets very well at the range they orbit. They do most of their damage when they catch up or are trailing behind a moving frigate.
This can be solved with a single omni tracking link if you have a spare mid as it boosts drone tracking enough to do full damage to pretty much any target in its optimal. I do this with a pilgrim as the additional effective damage can be quite significant for hammer II which is its sole dps.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.03.18 06:31:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kneebone
Originally by: Patient 2428190 It sounds like a bug. Light/Medium drones should be able to hit anything that is slowed down 90%
With the drone changes a while back Medium drones will have a problem hitting webbed frigs, angels in particular, without an Omni as I recall. They are able to hit them when they are moving faster because they are chasing them and the transversal is down. When they are slowed down the drones go into an orbit and get tracking problems.
this shouldn't be an issue with Light drones. What kind were you using?
Mediums can hit and kill just about all the NPC frigates unwebbed (yes, light drones would fare better, but the mediums can still track and hit them), so if its going 90% slower, the NPC shouldn't stand a chance. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.18 06:37:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Patient 2428190
Originally by: Kneebone
Originally by: Patient 2428190 It sounds like a bug. Light/Medium drones should be able to hit anything that is slowed down 90%
With the drone changes a while back Medium drones will have a problem hitting webbed frigs, angels in particular, without an Omni as I recall. They are able to hit them when they are moving faster because they are chasing them and the transversal is down. When they are slowed down the drones go into an orbit and get tracking problems.
this shouldn't be an issue with Light drones. What kind were you using?
Mediums can hit and kill just about all the NPC frigates unwebbed (yes, light drones would fare better, but the mediums can still track and hit them), so if its going 90% slower, the NPC shouldn't stand a chance.
Imagine you are chasing someone and you have a rifle. As you chase them you have a pretty stable target to shoot at. But then the person suddenly starts walking but you are still running around him in a circle trying to get a clean shot.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Yurij Sobeit
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Posted - 2011.03.18 08:54:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Imagine you are chasing someone and you have a rifle. As you chase them you have a pretty stable target to shoot at. But then the person suddenly starts walking but you are still running around him in a circle trying to get a clean shot.
Then you are pretty dumb to continue running if you could just stand still and get that clean shot. Are drones supposed to be dumb, or is this a bug ?
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Shade Millith
Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.03.18 09:27:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Yurij Sobeit
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Imagine you are chasing someone and you have a rifle. As you chase them you have a pretty stable target to shoot at. But then the person suddenly starts walking but you are still running around him in a circle trying to get a clean shot.
Then you are pretty dumb to continue running if you could just stand still and get that clean shot. Are drones supposed to be dumb, or is this a bug ?
The point is, that's how drones work, they orbit their target.
And yes, drones are one of the stupidest known AI. ------------------------
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.18 14:00:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Tippia on 18/03/2011 14:00:35
Originally by: Shade Millith The point is, that's how drones work, they orbit their target.
And yes, drones are one of the stupidest known AI.
^^ Pretty much that.
The drone "AI" (and I use that term very loosely) can be summed up in the following step by step list of instructions:- Is the target within activation range? If not, MWD towards it and try again. Otherwiseà
- àorbit target.
- àshoot target.
- àand then go back to 1
Notice how "figure out what the hell should be considered 'the target'" is not part of the listà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Kneebone
Heathens' Harbor
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Posted - 2011.03.18 14:10:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Imagine you are chasing someone and you have a rifle. As you chase them you have a pretty stable target to shoot at. But then the person suddenly starts walking but you are still running around him in a circle trying to get a clean shot.
Great analogy! It could just be that the purpose of your life is to server as a warning to others. |
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Ultim8Evil
Black Serpent Technologies R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.03.18 15:13:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Patient 2428190 It sounds like a bug. Light/Medium drones should be able to hit anything that is slowed down 90%
WTB: A time machine so we can go back to before November 2008 and have 90% webs again.
90% webs don't exist, and haven't for more than 2 years.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.18 15:48:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ultim8Evil
Originally by: Patient 2428190 It sounds like a bug. Light/Medium drones should be able to hit anything that is slowed down 90%
WTB: A time machine so we can go back to before November 2008 and have 90% webs again.
90% webs don't exist, and haven't for more than 2 years.
Kronos and Pala got a web strength bonus(also extreme heavy nerfed from 99->90% back in the days).
Also this thread is pointless, don't web frigs, except the raw cases you want to get around drone stage agro issues like in the 2. stage of WC. The bonus(99% webs) was on the ships to spare you the effort to use drones against frigs in PVE, so you could focus your guns and sentry's on other targets till the frig hit 1% speed(what took around 30s) and got one volleyed. It also slowed down stuff quicker to so your DPS application was more constant compared to hulls with only standard 90% webs.
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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