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Fred Barbossa
Free Mineral Collective
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Posted - 2011.06.08 09:05:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Brynj Spirum
Originally by: Fred Barbossa
Originally by: Brynj Spirum
Originally by: RUSROG Phaser Inc. is legit - so far invested 50 mill - and they are paying back..
Posts like these make me wonder if people have any idea how ponzi scams work.
People like you make me wonder if you know how investing works in this game. Even the legit groups will eventually burn out and steal money. They're all eventually ponzi scams if you want to look at it that way.
So according to your 'logic', EVERY SINGLE INVESTMENT in this game is a scam, so I should invest my money anyway. Cause that's just the way it is? That I should expect to lose my money? Not in a 'consider what you invest lost' to protect yourself from over investing, but a 'i may as well just give it to the isk doublers and pray they're dumb enough to actually double it'.
Your logic not mine. Making payments= ponzi scam and not making payments= scamming right?
Either way you can make money off of ponzi scams and isk doublers if your not butthurt about intentions rather than numbers.
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2011.06.08 11:28:00 -
[32]
The way to make money off a ponzi scam (besides being the one running it) is to be one of the very first investors or to pull your money out successfully before it reveals itself. As for being one of the very first investors, the asymmetry of information makes this unreasonable to be confident about. As for pulling your money out successfully, there is the large risk (nay, liklihood) that the scammer will refuse to hand it back or otherwise reveal the ponzi and show your funds as forfeit before pulling it out. In both cases, there is a sharply negative expectation value.
A far better argument could be made for buying lotto tickets.
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Brynj Spirum
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Posted - 2011.06.08 12:27:00 -
[33]
I'm not sure why you keep trying to read more into my original comments than what I typed, but whatever.
I don't know or particularly care if phaser inc are market wizards or Bernie Madoff wannabes. Someone paid interest on a whole 50 million(!) isk. Start sending your billions now! Naive, really really naive, at best, phaser inc alt at worst.
The rest is my own personal opinion. I am able to manage my isk more than competently at a better rate of return compared to your average MD offering. If you want to invest and can turn a buck, more power to you.
As for the rest of the thread, I'd hope to see a finders fee from phaser inc for all the bumps this is getting.
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Fred Barbossa
Free Mineral Collective
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Posted - 2011.06.08 12:42:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Brynj Spirum
I'm not sure why you keep trying to read more into my original comments than what I typed, but whatever.
I'm waiting for you to see the irony but I fear the realization isn't coming.
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Keeloux Siind
Universal Business Group
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Posted - 2011.07.18 12:11:00 -
[35]
If you search Phaser Inc in EVE you get 2 corporations one might be fake or both are the actual Phaser Inc, anyway, they say they employ a number of traders to support their business strategy, but both corporations combined have 5 members (the largest has 4) and to employ traders out of corp seems too risky with a business like that, however 4 members is just right to manage all the small transactions to keep ponzi scheme running......so that's my call, ponzi scheme, no trades just recycling the investments as interests until the inevitable closing of the corporation. |
Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.07.18 13:50:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Keeloux Siind If you search Phaser Inc in EVE you get 2 corporations one might be fake or both are the actual Phaser Inc, anyway, they say they employ a number of traders to support their business strategy, but both corporations combined have 5 members (the largest has 4) and to employ traders out of corp seems too risky with a business like that, however 4 members is just right to manage all the small transactions to keep ponzi scheme running......so that's my call, ponzi scheme, no trades just recycling the investments as interests until the inevitable closing of the corporation.
This.
After I saw that they only have 4 members, it all sounded fishy.
BUT.. I have to point out, that there ARE legit ways to make money this way without it being a scam or a ponzi scheme. But, in order for people to trust such a company, they have to be a little more open about how they are making their returns, and what industries they are investing in. Also, keep a record of all assets under management on some regular basis. Have a third trusted party audit this, to make sure they actually have the money that they say they do etc.
That all being said, Phaser has done very little to none of this, and basically just has a nice website. If they are legit, then they will have no reservations about revealing their balance sheets to the public.
Now, the reason I say that they very well may be legit, is that 5% is very easy to make in the game. I'm a trader and my trades make at least 10-20% profit, other wise its not worth the effort, so I suppose as long as they keep the number of new investements capped to the limit of what they can still make trading what they do, then they can keep paying out 5%.
The fact that you can pull out your initial investment at anytime is fishy. If this was a real hedge fund, then you would be locked in for a certain percentage for a period of time. This is to keep everyone from withdrawing at once and preventing the fund from making their profit and therefore unable to pay its other investers.
My accessment of them is 'be wary' but perhaps legit. (if the 4 traders have freighters and can do mass orders.
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Kro0k
Gallente Primum Artifex
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Posted - 2011.07.18 17:27:00 -
[37]
Two of the people who post links in local are Bots, auto-reject chats and stay on for about 15 hours a day. ****es me off |
Kostolany
Gallente TunDraGon Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.07.18 18:07:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Kostolany on 18/07/2011 18:07:19 No such business is sure. Your risk is to lose your money... but...
... i have invested 15 bn ISK since March and got back over 7 bn interest. Looks fine for me.
Kostolany's Blog Blog |
Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.07.19 10:49:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Kostolany Edited by: Kostolany on 18/07/2011 18:07:19 No such business is sure. Your risk is to lose your money... but...
... i have invested 15 bn ISK since March and got back over 7 bn interest. Looks fine for me.
Kostolany's Blog
I'm sure those mortgage backed securities had great returns too before they all collapsed and took the American economy with it.
When it comes down to it, unless they can publish their books and trades or business model, assume it's a ponzi scheme and just pray you are one if the lucky ones to get in and paid first.
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Mikal Morataya
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Posted - 2011.07.20 15:13:00 -
[40]
Just wanted to add my 2 pence. I've invested with Phaser for a few months and they have always paid out. I've grown my investment and in a way wished I had invested more from the start just to get a quicker payback. I am still suspicious its a scam but until they walk away with my isk who knows. Seeing them spam the trade hubs doesn't fill me with massive confidence though.
I do hope they continue to pay out though, if not it wont be the end of the world.
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.07.21 05:21:00 -
[41]
As long as people keep joining, any ponzi scheme can continue to pay out. The key is once they stop getting new investments, that's when the whole house comes down, and the only winners will be the people who invested early enough to make back their initial investment in payouts, and Madoff &Co who keeps all the deposits. They lose their reputation, but in eve, that's easy enough, sell your toon (which is likely an alt anyway). No jailtime. It's a perfect crime for an environment like EVE. Perhaps they are funding the war in NC right now? who knows.
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Getix Kain
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Posted - 2011.07.25 18:20:00 -
[42]
As far as I am concerned, I was just checking my balance regarding this investments.
In less than 3 months I received 82.500.000 in payout: it's a couple of week of missions/high sec plexes that I "played" while investing money there.
At the moment, I am more than happy to keep a part of my money into PHASER: it's money that does not make my richer by sitting in my wallet (I am not a trader).
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.07.26 02:41:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 26/07/2011 02:43:17
Originally by: Getix Kain As far as I am concerned, I was just checking my balance regarding this investments.
In less than 3 months I received 82.500.000 in payout: it's a couple of week of missions/high sec plexes that I "played" while investing money there.
At the moment, I am more than happy to keep a part of my money into PHASER: it's money that does not make my richer by sitting in my wallet (I am not a trader).
If the 82mil is your 5% profit, then it stands to reason that you have about 140mil deposit with them. So you have made about 60% of your investment back (which means you are currently at 40% loss). When you have made 100%, then you can really start thinking of the money earned as 'profit'.
PPS, if your proceeds are still on account with them (and not in your hands) then you must consider yourself still at 100% loss of initial profit. IE, you must not count any money that you do not have in your hands as profit.
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Rahn Koban
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Posted - 2011.07.26 09:33:00 -
[44]
Dont know if this means anything to anyone but I was travelling the pipes the other day, between Caldari and Minmatar space, and I passed Eddie Lampert piloting a freighter. Perhaps trading?!?! |
Levija Saplina
Supremacy Inc. Not Found.
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Posted - 2011.07.26 14:22:00 -
[45]
The re-investment % should be .5% higher than the payout option %. |
Bill Lane
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Posted - 2011.08.01 05:12:00 -
[46]
I've been with Phaser Inc for I think 15 weeks now. Gotten paid every week, never had a problem pulling money out. I had almost doubled my investment when I pulled out over 1.1 billion ISK a couple days ago, leaving only 10 million in my account. I have every intention of putting money back in as I get it.
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minerelite
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Posted - 2011.08.01 20:08:00 -
[47]
I've invested 50 Million ISK into Phaser Inc and they've always paid up on time and with a fair interest rate, i'm very happy with the service and will probably put more ISK into Phaser Inc
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ShivanScout
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Posted - 2011.08.02 13:33:00 -
[48]
Try doing a withdrawal and see if you get all your money back, most likely they wont even respond to your request :-) Hence, its a scam.
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Mara Villoso
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Posted - 2011.08.02 14:03:00 -
[49]
I love how the Phaser alts keep necro'ing this thread. |
Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2011.08.03 00:24:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 03/08/2011 00:24:55
Originally by: ShivanScout Try doing a withdrawal and see if you get all your money back, most likely they wont even respond to your request :-)
Is that confirmed?
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Derath Ellecon
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Posted - 2011.08.03 00:38:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Emperor Cheney Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 03/08/2011 00:24:55
Originally by: ShivanScout Try doing a withdrawal and see if you get all your money back, most likely they wont even respond to your request :-)
Is that confirmed?
I have a friend who pulled his money out fine. I don't think he had all that much in though.
I will say at I have noticed far more spam activity. I used to see Eddie spamming in local several times a day, but now I am seeing both Eddie and mordor spamming local twice as much.
Have to wonder if the two main players spend all day spamming local all over the game universe, when sorbet have time to trade?
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Bill Lane
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Posted - 2011.08.03 01:24:00 -
[52]
Originally by: ShivanScout Try doing a withdrawal and see if you get all your money back, most likely they wont even respond to your request :-) Hence, its a scam.
2 posts above this, I said: "I pulled out over 1.1 billion ISK a couple days ago"
Pretty much means they responded. I have never had a problem with them at all. Never taken more than 12 hours to get my money either.
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Jita Tradedrone
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Posted - 2011.08.04 08:47:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Emperor Cheney Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 03/08/2011 00:24:55
Originally by: ShivanScout Try doing a withdrawal and see if you get all your money back, most likely they wont even respond to your request :-)
Is that confirmed?
They are hard to come in contact with if you try to convo them, so that part is true.
However I had no problem withdrawing a large sum (around 1/3rd) of my isk. As promised on the website it was taken care of within 24 hours.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.08.04 12:14:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 04/08/2011 12:15:45
The CEO spends all his time flying between hubs spamming local, how does he have any time to carry out real business?
Try following him a few jumps, he is obviously using a travel bot, which I've reported. So Investors better pull out your isk before he gets banned.
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Devai Starchild
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.08.04 12:16:00 -
[55]
It is so very very hard managing trades while travelling. -------------------------------------------
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Khanid Voltar
Night's Dawn Investment Fund
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Posted - 2011.08.04 22:01:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 04/08/2011 12:15:45
The CEO spends all his time flying between hubs spamming local, how does he have any time to carry out real business?
Implying that you spend all of your time, following him about, spamming him with convo invites.
How do you have any time to actually troll the forums as much as you do? Bearing in mind the sterling efforts you are putting forth into being able to categorically state you know precisely what he is up to at any given time?
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Sindeya Shimaya
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Posted - 2011.08.05 20:08:00 -
[57]
5% weekly you say?
1bn investment. all payouts are paid back into the account. 1 week: 1.05bn 1 month: 1.2bn 1 year: 12.6bn 2 years: well.. a lot.
Ponzi verified!
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Mara Villoso
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Posted - 2011.08.05 20:16:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Mara Villoso on 05/08/2011 20:17:03
Originally by: Wyke Mossari Try following him a few jumps, he is obviously using a travel bot
What's a travel bot? |
Nunchuck Norris
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Posted - 2011.08.06 20:04:00 -
[59]
i`m just gonna post a link to my post in a C & P section , Phaser Inc related :
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1561299
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Cnaeus Lentulus
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.08.06 23:57:00 -
[60]
Just adding some fuel for the trolls. I assumed the money lost when I parted with it, but was pleasantly surprised to get it back shortly on request. Even more satisfied to keep getting the interest back. Let's see how long it keeps up :)
My account
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