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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2011.03.23 20:07:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Emperor Cheney Used to agree. Then, I realized it's way easier for a bot to spam d-scan than for a human.
Delayed local would be a huge benefit to bots v humans.
that's a pretty dumb reason, as current local mechanics are already a huge benefit to bots who can just read client info and instantly gtfo when neutrals jump into system _____________________ Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a forum, with the alt your alt could post like. |
Kazini Jax
Gallente Starlight Operations Starlight Network
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Posted - 2011.03.23 20:08:00 -
[62]
CCP should only keep enough balance in the game to keep it from falling apart. Beyond that, the more 'balance' you add, the less sand-boxy the game becomes.
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Chesty McJubblies
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.03.23 20:13:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Emperor Cheney Used to agree. Then, I realized it's way easier for a bot to spam d-scan than for a human.
Delayed local would be a huge benefit to bots v humans.
that's a pretty dumb reason, as current local mechanics are already a huge benefit to bots who can just read client info and instantly gtfo when neutrals jump into system
Emperor said...
Right now, it's as easy for bots as it is for humans to monitor local for hostiles.
With local delayed, it would be easier for bots.
So a change would have a negative impact on people, and no impact on bots.
Sounds like a wise move, make it easier for bots (c.f. humans)
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Mortania
Minmatar Kinetic Cartel Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.03.23 21:21:00 -
[64]
This old saw?
You CAN PvP solo, you basically shouldn't carebear solo, especially in 0.0. But, people do, and they lose ships when they aren't careful enough.
This suggested change would make ganking in 0.0 complete baby candy stealing.
If you come into a system to gank you already scan for locals, you do it once. If there were no local chat, you'd still do it. If you're carebearing in a system, you scan when you see someone come in local (just like the ganker), or you align for home. If there were no local chat, you'd need to be constantly scanning. Or have a large group.
In short, changing to "delayed" local would change basically nothing for gankers, and completely eliminate all but foolhardy solo carebearing.
Sounds like a WINNER! This is change I can believe in! (<- that was sarcasm)
There's already massive disincentive to solo carebear in 0.0. Proper carebearing requires a group, usually of about 5 people. And that's to protect against a single player. This would ensure that solo carebearing is dead.
It's moronic.
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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
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Posted - 2011.03.23 21:38:00 -
[65]
Delay local? Okay ...
Can we have a D-Scan then that's not looking like the 1920s prototype?
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Yxalitis
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Posted - 2011.03.24 02:18:00 -
[66]
Any changes to local require a considerable re-think of intelligence gathering. Local is a chat client, that has become THE de facto intel tool. Any suggestions to change it (and there are many, think about that!) are met with howls of derision. What about this:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1473499 I don't believe in signatures, not even really cool ones like "This signature intentionaly left blank" |
Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2011.03.24 02:53:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Emperor Cheney Used to agree. Then, I realized it's way easier for a bot to spam d-scan than for a human.
Delayed local would be a huge benefit to bots v humans.
that's a pretty dumb reason, as current local mechanics are already a huge benefit to bots who can just read client info and instantly gtfo when neutrals jump into system
So you, instead, advocate a system where only the bots are truly safe. Few humans will be willing to spam d-scan every 2 seconds, on the dot. Bots will.
Just because something is bad, it does not follow that it is okay to make it worse.
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Vernal Equinox
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Posted - 2011.03.24 04:01:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Nadine Le'****
See you just can't take a nullseccers safety away ...
no, I definitely agree nullsec needs to be safe for carebearing! Isn't that the whole point of nullsec?
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Mortania
Minmatar Kinetic Cartel Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.03.24 04:30:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Vernal Equinox
Originally by: Nadine Le'****
See you just can't take a nullseccers safety away ...
no, I definitely agree nullsec needs to be safe for carebearing! Isn't that the whole point of nullsec?
Safe, no. Plausible, yes.
There's a reason they put all of the best carebear stuff in null. They sort of intend people to do that out there. Null doesn't equal just pew pew. Best minerals, best anamolies, best ratting, all in null sec. Best PvP? Not necessarily in 0.0.
"Delayed" local would destroy all of that.
Maybe it's just grunts that get on here and cry for no local. I can all but guarantee there are no alliance leaders or leaders of other large operations that think that 0.0 doesn't require massive amounts of carebearing to make it worth while. Why else own space if not to use it? If it's just about getting your pewpew on then screw sov and all the other stuff. Let's just have masses of people wandering about never seeing each other because no one ever would sit in a system and do activities that would allow for anyone to come there. It's just masses of roaming gangs all looking for each other in no local space hoping someone has gone afk without cloak on and can be shot at.
Sounds like a great idea.
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Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.24 04:49:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Miilla Edited by: Miilla on 19/03/2011 14:23:47
We have delayed local in WH (also 0.0 space) so don't we have it on 0.0 nullsec systems also?
Currently it is being EXPLOITED as a local radar and even used by external applications (virus scanners string searching) to shut down an eve client if local changes.
Make nullsec the same as WH, delay local.
I am tired of seeing crying threads about AFK cloakers etc due to this exploit.
Highsec can have immediate local sure but not null (like WH space), perhaps make lowsec also delayed too but definately 0.0.
I like to be on the edge of my seat in nullsec (like WH) because it is delayed, once people talk, they reveal themselves. That is how it should be, more mysterious in nullsec like WH is.
It adds to the aptmosphere and it would make supprise invasions, really a supprise :) and more fun.
You want CCP to fundamentally change part of the game because some people are using third party software to read local? Perhaps getting rid of these "botters" would be a better idea no?
As for Wormholes having delayed local, I'm pretty sure it is delayed for RP reasons, in that there is no gate to register inbound and outbound ships. What next, oh the AFK cloaker problem which you blamed someone else for bringing up yet is clearly mentioned in your OP. People just need to shut up about AFK cloakers and learn to deal with it. It does not require a change to the game itself for them to do that, just a few brain cells and a tiny bit of leg work.
What else were you whinging about? Ah yes, seat of the pants stuff. Minimise the local chat channel and voila, mystery abounds! Pant seats everywhere will be airborne and the forums will not suffer from your rampant idiocy and "wah wah CCP need to make people play the way I want them to" threads. So please, kindly pack up your me me2 alt and find the nearest exit.
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.03.24 06:21:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: Nadine Le'**** Edited by: Nadine Le''**** on 19/03/2011 14:22:43 can we agree on the term non-instant, and get rid of 'delayed'? thats very confusing for newer players i guess, that didn't follow the discussion thats ongoing for years now.
and to the OPs suggestion: no, as always :) i read a nice recommendation some days ago, which basically meant turning player names into "unknown" until the speak in local, leaving local as instant as it is. yes won't get rid of the botters problem, but that's CCPs job anyway to deal in another way.
That wont stop alerting corps to an invasion as the local count spikes up.
We want supprise attacks to really be a supprise :) It is up to them to scout the gates to get an early warning.
Its called A Covert Cyno.
Also there is the option of Titan Bridging.
Otherwise all I see in this thread is:
TEARS I can't pwn ratting ships all day. END TEARS
Form a proper gang with proper ships and go push their **** in, otherwise stop whining.
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Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Cloakers
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Posted - 2011.03.24 08:07:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Miso Hawnee
Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: Nadine Le'**** Edited by: Nadine Le''**** on 19/03/2011 14:22:43 can we agree on the term non-instant, and get rid of 'delayed'? thats very confusing for newer players i guess, that didn't follow the discussion thats ongoing for years now.
and to the OPs suggestion: no, as always :) i read a nice recommendation some days ago, which basically meant turning player names into "unknown" until the speak in local, leaving local as instant as it is. yes won't get rid of the botters problem, but that's CCPs job anyway to deal in another way.
That wont stop alerting corps to an invasion as the local count spikes up.
We want supprise attacks to really be a supprise :) It is up to them to scout the gates to get an early warning.
Its called A Covert Cyno.
Also there is the option of Titan Bridging.
Otherwise all I see in this thread is:
TEARS I can't pwn ratting ships all day. END TEARS
Form a proper gang with proper ships and go push their **** in, otherwise stop whining.
You need to take some of your own advice.
Solo carebears farming in a system. Covert cyno or titan bridging attack. Solo carebear dies, your system is invaded. Form a proper gang with proper ships and go kick them out, otherwise stop carebearing solo.
--------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU. |
Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.24 08:20:00 -
[73]
Originally by: ihcn
We do just fine in wspace without the changes you've requested. I'd say a majority of wspace systems are inhabited, I wouldn't call that a barren wasteland.
It's understandable why botters etc might be against this change though.
Wspace are vastly different as you cant just roam in the same way as you can in 0.0. Everyone knows the systems where the ratters are and everyone knows just how to get there. Its much easier for a solo hunter to resupply and come back again in a few minutes. Thats why people want to change local in 0.0 as its too much of a pain in the ass to jump around in wh systems to hunt ratters/miners.
Its not understandable why botters would be against it, as botters dont get bored pressing the scan button like humans do. In fact such a change is likely to make botting much more popular as pressing d-scan is mindnumbingly boring.
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Hannibal Ord
Minmatar Hannibals Commando's
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Posted - 2011.03.24 09:14:00 -
[74]
What you need is a better D-Scan system, ideally one that does not require you to spam the button or something, like a proper Radar type system. Then remove local... or at least do it at the same time.
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.03.24 09:25:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Originally by: Miso Hawnee
Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: Nadine Le'**** Edited by: Nadine Le''**** on 19/03/2011 14:22:43 can we agree on the term non-instant, and get rid of 'delayed'? thats very confusing for newer players i guess, that didn't follow the discussion thats ongoing for years now.
and to the OPs suggestion: no, as always :) i read a nice recommendation some days ago, which basically meant turning player names into "unknown" until the speak in local, leaving local as instant as it is. yes won't get rid of the botters problem, but that's CCPs job anyway to deal in another way.
That wont stop alerting corps to an invasion as the local count spikes up.
We want supprise attacks to really be a supprise :) It is up to them to scout the gates to get an early warning.
Its called A Covert Cyno.
Also there is the option of Titan Bridging.
Otherwise all I see in this thread is:
TEARS I can't pwn ratting ships all day. END TEARS
Form a proper gang with proper ships and go push their **** in, otherwise stop whining.
You need to take some of your own advice.
Solo carebears farming in a system. Covert cyno or titan bridging attack. Solo carebear dies, your system is invaded. Form a proper gang with proper ships and go kick them out, otherwise stop carebearing solo.
Exactly where did I mention flying solo in my post? I did not. The reply was to the quoted text that wanted the ability to conduct surprise attacks. The mechanic is already in game to do just that. If you have an intelligent rebuttal, please indulge me.
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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
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Posted - 2011.03.24 10:09:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Hannibal Ord What you need is a better D-Scan system, ideally one that does not require you to spam the button or something, like a proper Radar type system. Then remove local... or at least do it at the same time.
Exactly. Local has an artificial feel but the D-Scan is even worse. A radar like D-Scan would be a great replacement, with max range and perhaps some falloff. It shouldn't be THAT hard to make.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2011.03.24 12:51:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Miilla We have delayed local in WH
No we don't!
Where does this ridiculous term come from anyway?
WH local is "Recent Speaker", not "delayed".
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Chesty McJubblies
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.03.24 13:01:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Miilla We have delayed local in WH
No we don't!
Where does this ridiculous term come from anyway?
WH local is "Recent Speaker", not "delayed".
I would say it's delayed more than recent. What if someone says something, then doesn't say anything for ages. Do they disappear from local? If never been in a WH for more than the time it takes to get out again, so can't say for sure.
As it stands, one's appearance in local is delayed until they say something.
/me shrugs.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2011.03.24 13:04:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Hannibal Ord What you need is a better D-Scan system, ideally one that does not require you to spam the button or something, like a proper Radar type system. Then remove local... or at least do it at the same time.
Yes, and then finally introduce more complex scanning/signal processing/stealth possibilities. Active and passive sensors. And new skills and modules to enhance it, or hide your emissions/reflection, besides just the silly sensor strength / signature size. Some ships have some RP blurb about "stealth" capabilities, which in practice mean nothing since the only thing that matters is whether you can fit a covops cloak or not.
A system where D-scan is never 100% efficient to its range limit like now, but it has a chance to detect signals, a signal being some form of emission from your ship. For instance using mwd or firing a weapon, or explosions would send out a strong signal and a stealth ship skulking about would send out only very little.
Where active D-scanning would give you very good "eyes" but also increase your "visibility" by a lot, and passive scanning would give you less information, but also not make you easy to detect.
You know, submarines in space! With lasers!
(Yes I know Eve is too simplistic and comes with a ton of ADD tards so we won't ever get anything like this in Eve.)
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Chesty McJubblies
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.03.24 13:07:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Qui Shon (Yes I know Eve is too simplistic and comes with a ton of ADD tards so we won't ever get anything like this in Eve.)
Please post ideas in the Recycle Bin, where they are deemed to belong.
Thanks.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2011.03.24 13:09:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Chesty McJubblies
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Miilla We have delayed local in WH
No we don't!
Where does this ridiculous term come from anyway?
WH local is "Recent Speaker", not "delayed".
I would say it's delayed more than recent. What if someone says something, then doesn't say anything for ages. Do they disappear from local? If never been in a WH for more than the time it takes to get out again, so can't say for sure.
As it stands, one's appearance in local is delayed until they say something.
/me shrugs.
Yeah well you need to shut the hell up if you haven't stayed there for any amount of time then. "Delayed" would presumably mean you show up in it after a while whether you speak or not. But that doesn't matter, since Eve has quite specific options for many chat channels, one of which is "Recent Speaker" mode, which works exactly like W-space local.
That is why there is no arguing against this, W-space local is Recent Speaker, end of story. I think it was some dumbass dev who once used the "delayed" word in a blog, which got this whole ridiculous trend going, and it just won't die, despite being so obviously incorrect.
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Chesty McJubblies
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.03.24 13:19:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Chesty McJubblies
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Miilla We have delayed local in WH
No we don't!
Where does this ridiculous term come from anyway?
WH local is "Recent Speaker", not "delayed".
I would say it's delayed more than recent. What if someone says something, then doesn't say anything for ages. Do they disappear from local? If never been in a WH for more than the time it takes to get out again, so can't say for sure.
As it stands, one's appearance in local is delayed until they say something.
/me shrugs.
Yeah well you need to shut the hell up if you haven't stayed there for any amount of time then. "Delayed" would presumably mean you show up in it after a while whether you speak or not.
That's one interpretation of the word "delay". They don't use your interpretation, luckily.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2011.03.24 13:25:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 24/03/2011 13:25:11
Originally by: Chesty McJubblies
Originally by: Qui Shon
Yeah well you need to shut the hell up if you haven't stayed there for any amount of time then. "Delayed" would presumably mean you show up in it after a while whether you speak or not.
That's one interpretation of the word "delay". They don't use your interpretation, luckily.
Your forum fu is weak.. I'll repeat since you tried to ignore it:
"
But that doesn't matter, since Eve has quite specific options for many chat channels, one of which is "Recent Speaker" mode, which works exactly like W-space local.
That is why there is no arguing against this, W-space local is Recent Speaker, end of story
"
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.24 13:35:00 -
[84]
Local is fine the way it is, period.
Intel works BOTH WAYS, (unless it is post 9/11 Bush administration).
Interestingly enough, if you stand on your head your tears will flow up your face and back into your eyes.
Just thought I would throw that out there.
Also works on AFK cloaking tears. Have a nice flight. .
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Vernal Equinox
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Posted - 2011.03.24 20:23:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Mortania
Safe, no. Plausible, yes.
It is plausible now and still would be with delayed local. Carebearing is a business, and like any other business is going to have profit and loss. IMO its simply unrealistic to think that because your alliance has sovereignty that your carebears should be able to rake in the dough without fear of loss. If your bears are unable to turn a reasonable profit in a specific system due to repeated ganks, maybe it's time to assign some defensive assets.
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Mortania
Minmatar Kinetic Cartel Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.03.25 03:25:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Mortania on 25/03/2011 03:26:20
Originally by: Vernal Equinox
Originally by: Mortania
Safe, no. Plausible, yes.
It is plausible now and still would be with delayed local. Carebearing is a business, and like any other business is going to have profit and loss. IMO its simply unrealistic to think that because your alliance has sovereignty that your carebears should be able to rake in the dough without fear of loss. If your bears are unable to turn a reasonable profit in a specific system due to repeated ganks, maybe it's time to assign some defensive assets.
You're talking crazy talk.
Right now, someone with decent skills can come into a system, scan and warp and be on top of you in under 20 seconds. With local as it is now, that's a semi-easy gap to have in attention.
With no local, assuming you're in dscan range of the gate, you'd need to scan every 10-15 seconds. That's insane. It's practically punishment. EDIT: If you're not in dscan range of the gate then you might as well not bother scanning, because the only way you're going to detect anything you're deadmeat.
Yes, you can have a group and keep a scout out. But, with no local, you effectively eliminate solo carebearing. And what happens to solo ganking? It gets easier, MUCH easier. Group ganking changes almost not at all. Group carebearing, also changed basically not much.
So, this proposal effectively has one effect only, it destroys one type of gameplay. For what gain? Easier ganks? They're already reasonably easy, though not common.
It's just so completely out of balance. It's crazy.
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reddot23
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Posted - 2011.03.25 05:09:00 -
[87]
gates are all camped who cares no one going there anyway no local add that to the list of things why poeple dont go to low are null after its done he he you dont have to kill pvp you can wait let a pvp player take care of that they all ways do points at room
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Hieronimus Rex
Minmatar Infinitus Sapientia New Eden Research.
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Posted - 2011.03.25 05:13:00 -
[88]
IS THIS THE NEW FOTM? CAN WE EXPECT ANOTHER FIFTEEN DELAY LOCAL THREADS TO FOLLOW!?!?
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2011.03.25 06:29:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Hieronimus Rex IS THIS THE NEW FOTM? CAN WE EXPECT ANOTHER FIFTEEN DELAY LOCAL THREADS TO FOLLOW!?!?
And as long as I'm bored at work, I'll be in all of them telling people what putzes they are for calling it delayed local
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Lemmy Kravitz
Minmatar THE FINAL 5TAND
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Posted - 2011.03.25 07:01:00 -
[90]
I want to make all local like WH local because then i wouldn't have to use an alt to find WT's. I get in a cloaky scout, roam known systems on KB and see what I can find floating around in space. Find a couple of WT outside of station, and set up a good gank. Have fleet waiting somewhere in space outside of D-scan, and just wait for Wt's to get agro shooting at each other, or can baiting or what ever. Call in fleet, lol's at stupid WT's for getting agro outside of station while at war.
making all local like WH local will cut down alot on all the stupid BS and make corps and players willing to put the time and effort into scouting strong. Others who don't drown in tears. Nothing annoys me more than the fact that I have no way to surprise a WT in empire. They know I'm there instantly with no effort on their part. I don't mind being added to contacts so they know I am online. But I do have a problem with them instantly knowing that I am in system. WH local in empire will keep WT's with no balls docked up a majority of the time during a war. Not ratting, missioning, and mining in complete safety.
------------------------------------------------- "Vae Victis" -Brennus |
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