Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Drexit
|
Posted - 2011.03.21 17:58:00 -
[1]
Could someone explain to me why ehp and resists are both individually important? In other words:
Me to fleet> I have 90k ehp Fleet> Well what are your resists? Me> 80/65/79/82 Fleet> Ehp is good, but get that thermal resist up.
So why does the thermal resist matter, if I already meet the EHP req, unless I am fighting a thermal only enemy?
Ehp already takes into account resists, so in an omni tanking situation, i don't get the focus on resists...
Thanks
|
Zhim'Fufu
|
Posted - 2011.03.21 18:02:00 -
[2]
Lie about your thermal resist next time.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
|
Daneel Trevize
Black Viper Nomads
|
Posted - 2011.03.21 18:04:00 -
[3]
Because in general you're omni tanking, but if 1 ship with medium guns is pushing thermal ammo, well, see your EHP for just that damage profile in EFT... Whether against few ships and buffer/active tanking, or more and expecting remote reps, it's better to balance resists than tank 1 kind of damage twice as well as another. Remember a few % goes a long way, 85% tanks twice 70% iirc. |
Missm Uppet
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.03.21 18:08:00 -
[4]
The main reason people will typically single-out the resist portion of your tank is when you are in a fleet (which you indicated), and that fleet will be remote repping via logistics ships or spider tanking. In these cases, resists become a very important consideration over and above the hit points, or buffer that your tank supports. This has to do with the fact that every rep that is put on you, will effectively be more valuable against incoming damage because you are taking less damage due to your higher resists.
|
Drexit
|
Posted - 2011.03.21 18:12:00 -
[5]
This is for omni btw - incursions or wh's
|
Zhim'Fufu
|
Posted - 2011.03.21 18:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Drexit This is for omni btw - incursions or wh's
Then you will be taking more damage due to your lower thermal resist. It might be useful if you post your ship fit so we can see if you can flip your resists around to keep the others high and also get your thermal up.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
|
Missm Uppet
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.03.21 18:21:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Missm Uppet on 21/03/2011 18:22:49
Originally by: Drexit This is for omni btw - incursions or wh's
Ah, well then it's for exactly the reasons I stated above. They are asking for your resists to be as high as possible because you will be getting remote repped. Your buffer in this case is only useful to the extent that it gives the other ships time enough to get you targeted and start repping for the most part.
EHP and buffer figures are most useful when it comes to pvp, but even here, resists will be of great importance if you're in an well-organized fleet with logistics capability.
|
Drexit
|
Posted - 2011.03.21 18:24:00 -
[8]
62.5/70/77.5/81.2 113k ehp
[Vindicator, Incursion Shields] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Garde II x5
|
Ultim8Evil
Black Serpent Technologies R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2011.03.21 19:20:00 -
[9]
Drop the 3rd Invul for a thermal hardener.
You lose 3k EHP, but you completely close the thermal hole.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2011.03.21 19:36:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Alice Katsuko on 21/03/2011 19:37:55 EHP is a function of both resistances and actual hit points, and is an estimate of how much damage a ship can absorb before exploding. In a fleet, EHP gives friendly logistics time to lock a ship and, in the case of armor fleets, allow the remote armor reppers to cycle. In a large fleet engagement, a ship with low EHP might very well explode from the enemy's alpha strike alone.
Resistances simply show how much actual damage of each type your ship really takes, and how much is blocked. Resistances are a major factor in EHP (the other is raw hit points), so it's a good idea to have high resistances in general. However, resistances also block the incoming damage, unlike EHP, which is a measure of how much damage a ship can absorb. So it is much easier for friendly logistics to rep a ship with high resists, than it is for them to rep a ship with lots of hit points but low resists. A ship with low resistances but high EHP might survive the initial volley, but still die if the logistics cannot keep up with the incoming damage. For example, a ship with 50% resists across the board requires only half as many hypothetical logistics ships to keep alive as a ship with no resists.
So a good fleet fit will have both high EHP and high resistances. As the poster above said, best bet is probably to replace the third Invulnerability Field with a Thermal Hardener. Incursion Sansha deal omni damage, so sealing up the Therm hole is generally a good idea.
|
|
Drexit
|
Posted - 2011.03.21 19:45:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ultim8Evil Drop the 3rd Invul for a thermal hardener.
You lose 3k EHP, but you completely close the thermal hole.
And now I have an EM hole
|
VanNostrum
|
Posted - 2011.03.21 20:09:00 -
[12]
Resists are more important (or as much important) than ehp for RR dps tanked per one RR cycle is greater with high resists than with low resists, so in fleets general fits don't go for highest ehp but for high resists with a high ehp
|
Sigras
|
Posted - 2011.03.21 21:18:00 -
[13]
Originally by: VanNostrum Resists are more important (or as much important) than ehp for RR dps tanked per one RR cycle is greater with high resists than with low resists, so in fleets general fits don't go for highest ehp but for high resists with a high ehp
QFT
EHP without resists only matters in situations where there is no RR; look at it this way
If you have 10,000 shields with 0/0/0/0 resists (10,000 EHP) and you're taking 500 thermal damage per second and im in my scimitar giving you 300 shield rep per second, youre going to run out of shields in just under a minute
If you have 2,000 shields with 75/75/75/75 resists (8,000 EHP) and in the same scenario, youre taking 500 thermal DPS and im giving you 300 shields per second, his 500 thermal hits your 75% resists, and only takes away 125 shields, im giving you 300, youre never going to die.
|
Aamrr
|
Posted - 2011.03.22 08:49:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Drexit
Originally by: Ultim8Evil Drop the 3rd Invul for a thermal hardener.
You lose 3k EHP, but you completely close the thermal hole.
And now I have an EM hole
Try changing a rig for an anti-thermic screen reinforcer, instead. You should get better results.
|
0oO0oOoOo0o
|
Posted - 2011.03.22 09:11:00 -
[15]
Ye that's basic logic. Assume a remote repper repairs you for 100 health points. If your resists are at 0%, he gives you only 100 EHP. If your resists are at 50%, he gives you 200 effective health points (EHP). If your resists are at 75%, he gives you 400 EHP. If your resists are at 90%, he gives you 900 EHP by giving you 100 raw health points.
Means if you have 90% resists 1 repper is doing the job of 9 reppers, if you have only 0% resists.
|
Drexit
|
Posted - 2011.03.22 10:40:00 -
[16]
Ok, thanks for the explanation, it makes perfect sense. Back to the fit I have posted above, however, if I pump up the EM by swapping an invuln for a photon II, then I leave myself with a thermal hole. Suggestions?
|
Aamrr
|
Posted - 2011.03.22 10:53:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Aamrr
Try changing a rig for an anti-thermic screen reinforcer, instead. You should get better results.
|
Drexit
|
Posted - 2011.03.22 11:06:00 -
[18]
Missed that, thanks.
76 / 70 / 72 / 77
[Vindicator, Incursions Shields] Damage Control II Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Photon Scattering Field II
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Garde II x5
|
Aamrr
|
Posted - 2011.03.22 11:44:00 -
[19]
That looks absolutely solid. If you're confident in your logistics team, you might even consider dropping the extender rigs, as they don't do much other than giving your logis a chance to put reps on you.
And if they can't keep a battleship up before it runs out of shields, then the extenders are really just delaying the inevitable, aren't they?
That said, you might consider a burst aerator and metastasis rig. I wouldn't do it if I was flying with PUGs, but in a well-coordinated and trusted group I think it'd be a nice choice.
I like the fit.
|
Drexit
|
Posted - 2011.03.22 11:56:00 -
[20]
I guess my last question now is 100mn mwd. I could drop a web (on a vindi that would suck) to fit it in. I find that most of the time in assaults I have to mwd around to get on target, and by then, I'm out of cap. But then again, whats the point of the webs if I'm not in range to use them?
|
|
Aamrr
|
Posted - 2011.03.22 12:04:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Aamrr on 22/03/2011 12:04:47 If you can impose some group discipline on your pilots, so that everyone stays within about 5km of the anchor (preferably you, because of the web bonus), you can significantly mitigate the need for a microwarpdrive. The downside is that everyone now has to have an effective range of about 20km.
That said, the interdiction maneuvers skirmish link helps immeasurably. Get a friend in command ship or T3 -- it will help. Unfortunately, the utility of the MWD is significantly reduced if you don't have a reliable source of capacitor.
|
Sigras
|
Posted - 2011.03.22 18:19:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Drexit I guess my last question now is 100mn mwd. I could drop a web (on a vindi that would suck) to fit it in. I find that most of the time in assaults I have to mwd around to get on target, and by then, I'm out of cap. But then again, whats the point of the webs if I'm not in range to use them?
Youve just struck on the problem with blaster ships you do crazy amounts of damage 1% of the time because the other 99% of the time youre trying to get in range . . .
The "M" in MWD stands for mandatory.
|
Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
|
Posted - 2011.03.22 20:39:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Drexit 62.5/70/77.5/81.2 113k ehp
Originally by: Drexit Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Fitting 3 x omni resist modules, when you have a huge gaping resist hole, is unwise. Replace one omni with a specific hardener. You'll also use less cap that way.
-- Salpad |
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
|
Posted - 2011.03.22 21:02:00 -
[24]
Confirming my incursion vindi only uses 2 invulns, a DC, and an em rig for tank. |
Arazel Chainfire
The Awakened Armada Infinite Conflux
|
Posted - 2011.03.22 21:45:00 -
[25]
My recommendation would be to keep that vindi for vanguards, and don't take it into assaults. To be honest... I wouldn't take any blastership into assaults because of that range issue. However, taking vindi into vanguards is just plain awsome... and my eventual goal is to have a fit like this:
[Vindicator, Incursions Shields] Damage Control II Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Photon Scattering Field II
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Large Hybrid Burst Areator II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
And yes, I take this ship into pugs. However, since I'm generally the FC of said pugs, I don't have anywhere near the problems other people often do with them. And having one of these means that it does 4x the damage of your average vanguard pilot, so 3 logi's is perfectly acceptable if you're feeling squishy.
-Arazel
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |