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Cyriel Longinus
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2011.03.23 02:10:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Cyriel Longinus on 23/03/2011 02:26:42
Item: Jump Beacon
Concept: A one time use device launched into space that can standalone generate a Cynosural Field. Thus allowing the Player to be mobile and engage in other actions. Imagine a rouge probe and a cyno gen having offspring.
Variations: Jump Beacon Covert Jump Beacon
Used with: Beacon Launcher
Can be fitted to: Covert Ops Force Recon Combat Recon Blacks Ops
Volume: The device itself and the amount of Liquid Ozone it consumes.
Signature Radius: Tiny
Possible Storyline for Tech Advancement: The progenitors of the Cynosural Field Generator noted that holding the field open in a fixed position upon the successful arrival of the traveler without an option to abort seemed inefficient or could prove fatal during a critical situation. Research lead to the development of a next generation device that could be deployed into space to standalone generate a Cynosural Field.
The Inspiration:The first cyno was really pretty. But after lighting hundreds of cynos and sitting thru those minutes without the option to abort or engage anything outside range, I can confidently say that I did not have fun in EVE several blocks at a time while I waited for that cyno to cool down. Yea, those blocks of minutes do add up.
Also, I thought this could give the Force Recon a boost in the cyno role. Because sending a Force Recon to light a cyno in the field is asking for volunteer suicide. Not much fun for the Recon who will probably need to replace ship and clone since he doesn't have an option to abort.
From a ship designer view, if I were creating systems for a Force Recon to deliver a cyno field in a "Hot LZ", I would probably would give the pilot a fighting chance to bring the ship and crew home.
I've been playing EVE over fives years. I do love this beautiful game.
Dev Challenge: I challenge one of you awesome developers to light as many cynos as we players do. Sit there till the ship can move again. Wash, rinse, repeat several times. Then ask yourself if you had fun while doing it and is it necessary?
Alternative Idea: If melding a cyno and probe together would be too creative, please consider adding an ôAbortö option to the current Cynosural Field Generators.
Thank you in advance for your consideration and all the awesome work that goes into EVE.
ôviva la cyno revolucion!ö
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.03.23 11:41:00 -
[2]
If anything cynos should be nerfed, not buffed. There should be consequences for lighting a cyno, you have to choose how to deal with them.
I'm actually in favour of a jump delay. Just off the top of my head: A delay of 1 minute. This is only reduced if Recon ships are used to light the cyno. Say a 10 seconds reduction per level, meaning only a 10 second delay at level 5 for Recons. Or a slight change, so that it's 20% per level reduction, so that no delay is present at level 5 for Recons. But the immovable ship timer stays.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
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Posted - 2011.03.23 12:08:00 -
[3]
Launchable cyno is fine. I like this idea. I really don't think cyno's need a nerf. Capital ships (especially SC's) and jump portals yes but not the cyno's themselves. They are really an inconsequential part of it. Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Cyriel Longinus
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2011.03.23 19:50:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Mag's There should be consequences for lighting a cyno, you have to choose how to deal with them.
Mag, please explain your view. Why should the player lighting the cyno experience a consequence for performing a function that enables others to engage in play?
Jump Delay:
Let's consider your suggestion of a jump delay that is reduced per level of skill.
> Defenders will have an edge to warp away or setup. > Attackers lose the element of surprise unless they utilize a Force Recon with Level 5 Skill. > This could reduce hotdrop and capitol ship fun from EVE. > EVE already has hundreds of abilities that require intensive skill training.
On average, it would not take a minute to warp to a cyno. Nor would it take a minute to warp away. So a Jump Delay delay would provide an advantage to the players already present in the solar system. Force Recons can't endure any jump delay because anything that is not a Rapier could pop in less than ten seconds under fire.
As of now there is already a consequence for lighting a cyno.
> Player experiences a timeout from any action. > Player has a good chance to lose the ship due to immobility.
I did not suggest to remove the immobility for all ship types. Why not remove the immobility while using Covert Ops, Recons and Black Ops?
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2011.03.23 20:17:00 -
[5]
I've always considered the 10 min cyno a "cost" of moving a capital ship. Every time you move, you put someone's ship in jeopardy.
Your probe idea would essentially remove this risk... especially if its a probe that fits on covops...
I would support an 80% reduction in cyno time for force recon ships, but I'm pretty happy with the risks cyno's currently entail.
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Cyriel Longinus
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2011.03.23 22:45:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Gizznitt Malikite
I've always considered the 10 min cyno a "cost" of moving a capital ship.
Does that cost must equal ten minutes of not playing or the loss of a ship? Do you have fun waiting out those ten minutes?
Outside of combat or stealth, Cyno Frigates are very common for moving capitols around. The average risk there is the cost of the Cynosural Field Generator and a Tech 1 Frigate.
Actually using a Force Recon to light a cyno in a system populated by hostiles is not a risk. There is no skill involved in blowing up a cyno ship. There is no way for the cyno ship to evade incoming. It's a sacrifice that cost a Force Recon, fittings, clone and loss of further participation.
As for the Heavy Interdictors, they most often survive a hotdrop because they can.
Denying Covert Ops Pilots is suggesting that only to those with the Recon skills and higher can participate in game play.
What I'm suggesting is a add-on specifically for Covert Ops, Force Recons and Black Ops only. The standard cyno would still be present in game but Jump Beacons would provide a option to make that Covert, Recon or Black Op more interesting to use.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.03.23 23:49:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Cyriel Longinus Mag, please explain your view. Why should the player lighting the cyno experience a consequence for performing a function that enables others to engage in play?
Jump Delay:
Let's consider your suggestion of a jump delay that is reduced per level of skill.
> Defenders will have an edge to warp away or setup. > Attackers lose the element of surprise unless they utilize a Force Recon with Level 5 Skill. > This could reduce hotdrop and capitol ship fun from EVE. > EVE already has hundreds of abilities that require intensive skill training.
It should be difficult to light a cyno for a capital ship to jump too, after all you are enabling vast crafts to jump massive distances in a instant. The cost for this, should in turn be large.
So as it stands, you have to either wait 10 or 5 minutes. That is a small price to pay, especially when you consider that it can easily be achieved with a alt. You wouldn't even need to update the alt's clone, if it got popped. There are of course other ways to use alts in this role, including logging off and self destruction. So in most cases, the whole time issue becomes irrelevant.
With a jump delay, you would need to alter your approach to certain situations and the cost would change depending on your choice. The use of Recons would have to increase, if you needed to do certain tasks without the jump delay being a factor. I see this as a plus not a negative, giving a more in depth approach to game play. Rather than the cheap throw away situation we have now.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
Cyriel Longinus
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2011.03.24 22:34:00 -
[8]
Mag, are you in favor of ideas that demotes the use of capitols in general?
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.03.24 22:39:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cyriel Longinus Mag, are you in favor of ideas that demotes the use of capitols in general?
I think they should have a few more hurdles to jump (pardon the pun), but I'm not against the use of capitals in general. I actually quite like capital warfare.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
Cyriel Longinus
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2011.03.25 01:09:00 -
[10]
I think I understand Mag.
Jump delays, navigation computer calculations, ETAs and countdowns are classic writerÆs gimmicks. Viewers enjoy a heroic countdown clock effort when it's done right for cinematics. For example, Battlestar Galatica provided one every Friday.
We are talking about EVE here. We don't just jump once or twice on a Friday. We jump at any moment.
Not even the Battlestar Galatica jumps around space as much as internet space ship players do. If I watched Adama jump as around as much I have, I would be flipping the channel. That's a silly example I know but it does illustrate my point.
Let's say you jump your capitol six times a week and each cyno was ten minutes till cool-down or completion of a ôjump delayö. By the end of the week you would had done nothing entertaining for sixty minutes.
Let's say this year you jump the cap ship around for half the year. Ten minutes here, ten minutes there, it really does add up over over the years of playing EVE. That's a lot of hours of not being entertained and paying a consequence.
So I would prefer an option, like a ôJump Beaconö, to spare myself the epic suspense of cyno cool-down and get straight to the action. There is just so much available game time a man has. It's a shame to pay such a time consuming consequence for entertainment.
But for those who enjoy donating ten minutes blocks of real time to a ôconsequenceöthe regular cyno would still be around to use.
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mkmin
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Posted - 2011.03.25 01:25:00 -
[11]
Get sov in your destination and you can have a jump beacon. Making it easier to hotdrop the super cap blob where ever you damned well please is an absolutely awful idea. Supercap proliferation is a problem that needs to be fixed, not buffed.
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Rahnim
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Posted - 2011.03.25 01:53:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mag's If anything cynos should be nerfed, not buffed. There should be consequences for lighting a cyno, you have to choose how to deal with them.
I'm actually in favour of a jump delay. Just off the top of my head: A delay of 1 minute. This is only reduced if Recon ships are used to light the cyno. Say a 10 seconds reduction per level, meaning only a 10 second delay at level 5 for Recons. Or a slight change, so that it's 20% per level reduction, so that no delay is present at level 5 for Recons. But the immovable ship timer stays.
Thats a really great idea, it would give fleets/pilots a window to fight back against the impending doom of a hotdrop, but I think something like 10-20 sec would be fine normally. and then it could be like 5-10 sec on a recon with max skills? IDK?
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Cyriel Longinus
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2011.03.25 02:04:00 -
[13]
The Cynosural Field Generator is certainly is an aspect that enables player to use capitols but does not proliferate the use of capitol ships. Players who use captiols do.
Players are going to be using capitols regardless how those capitols are delivered to destinations. As each younger generation of characters become able to use a capitol ship, the number of capitols in-game also increase. So thousands of capitol pilots in EVE abstaining from any creative chance to make something go boom, is about as likely as universal peace.
Capitols, Hotdrops, creative ways that players use their capitols and general Darwinism in EVE is an entirely different thread.
This thread is about a one time use device launched into space that can standalone generate a Cynosural Field which only can be used by Covert Ops, Force Recons and Black Ops.
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blazeyadeadhommie
Martyr's Vengence
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Posted - 2011.03.25 08:58:00 -
[14]
Hey Mag's while you may think my carrier gets an advantage by moving a greater distance per jump i actually have a longer journey than you and in most cases you could beat me by taking jump bridges.
Capitals are already at a disadvantage do to the fact they can not use stargates. Also i have to wait an additional time to make another jump because my cap has to recharge and a new cyno must be lit.
So learn a thing or two about capitals then talk on the subject you still have no clue about.
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Jarlexly
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.03.25 12:01:00 -
[15]
I'm totally supporting Cyriel about this idea and from the answers of opposing side, i understand that they all capital killer pilots, from their view of point if you use this safe way, they will be out of job. So all they are saying dont do this cause if you do this we cant kill easly the alts of the Carrier pilot and the carriers. These small pirate groups dont know and understand the Cyno pilot factor in big fleet engagements. We are talking about 1000 to 1000 Player vs Player fights, and at those fight you have to use a strong sturdy ship to survive , no freeking noobish alt character with a kestrel go in to the enemy line a light a cyno, so we all using expensive Force-Reconships to do this and as a Force Recon pilot i like my shipi and dont want to loose my ship for satisfying couple of easy kill noobs.
When you say "CAPITAL" the name itself represents its heavyness, its big boys league, so these ships are 20x or 1000x the price of your fraking Dramiel, so the pilots rightfully dont want to be caught by those pests.
Supporting this
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Shtu Lix
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Posted - 2011.03.25 12:55:00 -
[16]
Put some maximum mass allowance on that cyno (same way the wormholes have) and all the concerns should be covered. Then the system would be good for travel but not hotdrop.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.03.25 20:51:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Mag''s on 25/03/2011 20:56:10
Originally by: blazeyadeadhommie Hey Mag's while you may think my carrier gets an advantage by moving a greater distance per jump i actually have a longer journey than you and in most cases you could beat me by taking jump bridges.
Capitals are already at a disadvantage do to the fact they can not use stargates. Also i have to wait an additional time to make another jump because my cap has to recharge and a new cyno must be lit.
So learn a thing or two about capitals then talk on the subject you still have no clue about.
U still MAD BRO?
I've been flying capital from almost as soon as they were release and I am fully aware of just how easy it is to use them. If you find using them hard, then that maybe more about your lack of skills in planning and playing the game, than anything else.
I had at one time, 10 cyno alts dotted around the Eve universe. As well as corp mates cyno alts to call upon. Time and jumping were never much of an issue.
The clue sir, is something you require post-haste.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
Jacob Menard
Gallente Bleeding Skulls Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.03.25 23:58:00 -
[18]
I dont fly caps, but here's my 2 cents worth. The cost of losing a recon ship cuz it has to wait or the cost of losing a capital ship because it couldnt jump. Sacrifice the recon in my opinion. Truth is 99% perspective and 1% fact. |
Cyriel Longinus
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2011.03.29 19:16:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Jacob Menard The cost of losing a recon ship cuz it has to wait or the cost of losing a capital ship because it couldnt jump. Sacrifice the recon in my opinion.
Why must you lose a ship at all?
You should lose a ship if mistakes were made. But the if you light a cyno close to hostiles and are unable to move, that's not skill on the aggressors behalf to destroy the Recon from under you, that's the current game mechanic restricting Recons to the role of toilet paper.
Recons should have the ability to drop a cyno and move away.
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