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Fournone
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Posted - 2011.03.27 17:25:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Fournone on 27/03/2011 17:31:08 In the new trailer, a dreadnought bombarded a planet with its guns. Its cool and all but what about high sec? Not sure if concord would like having us bombard planets, even the remote ones, but IF you could I think we need to go with minidreads.
They would serve the dual role of high sec planetary siege and high sec pos bashing. They would have the same problems of a normal dread i.e. tracking issues, but only one gun. One gun should make sure it doesn't compete with the real dreadnought (lol?) in low/nul sec. It should have a decet tank, not sure on the H/M/L slots I'm not a balancer. Anyway it should be small enough to fit threw high sec gates so porbably slightly smaller than a freighter.
Not gonna argue specifics but here is the general idea. Please give suggestions.
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Jr Ryan
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Posted - 2011.03.27 18:59:00 -
[2]
Thats would be a good idea. Make these ships a bit more powerful then a regualer Battleship, but don't make them better than ships you can fly in low sec. Also you can make it worth about 800mil as a base price. keep all the problems with the dread also. Maybe have 4 mids and about 6 or 8 lows and one or two high slots.
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Xarissa de Tolnos
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Posted - 2011.03.27 20:52:00 -
[3]
I had this idea - a T2 version of the tier 3 battleships... designed for orbital bombardment, and little else
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Fournone
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Posted - 2011.03.27 21:07:00 -
[4]
@ Tolnos I think I read that one.
@ Ryan Having a gun slot and a utility slot is a good idea. Also sounds like a decent armor tank H/M/L slot design. It should be able to fit capital reps so it can tank POS guns, with support ofc.
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Xarissa de Tolnos
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Posted - 2011.03.27 21:15:00 -
[5]
hang on - should be able to tank POS guns, but should still be vulnerable to the next biggest (military) ship in highsec - the BS anyone else seeing this being a large problem?
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Asuka Solo
Gallente Defenders of Sovereignty
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Posted - 2011.03.27 21:34:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Asuka Solo on 27/03/2011 21:37:55 Edited by: Asuka Solo on 27/03/2011 21:35:52 While I'm all for orbital bombardment, I can honestly say I'm a 0.0 slave and I don't see the need for hi-sec /low-sec orbital bombardments where there is no occupancy/sovereignty mechanisms for planets, stations, belts, moons or systems and thus no possibilities for Dust.
Secondly, Hi-sec/ Low-sec planets are crappy for PI. They have very low yields which is not the best place to setup a profiteering venture if your starting out. The odds that alliances will fight over hi-sec planets are almost non existant, unless you could perhaps, bring in civilian focused PI, and cities with economic wealth generation that would serve as a welcome alternative to hi-sec funding and not just relying on missioners/researchers/scammers.
I'd much rather see an expansion on the dread/capital hulls from a single variant, to at least 3 per faction/race as opposed to the single hulls we get to choose from now, as opposed to seeing new "midget capitals" popping up all over, like the ever popular yet 3rd boob escort carrier suggestion thats once again making the rounds somewhere...
17 different types of t1 & t2 Battleships, not counting pirate faction ships.
Only 8 Capital ship hulls.
AmIRite?
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Xarissa de Tolnos
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Posted - 2011.03.27 21:39:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Xarissa de Tolnos on 27/03/2011 21:39:23 if you are, it's with good reason - how many aircraft carriers do you see in comparison to cruisers these days (battleships having been mostly phased out), it's because their purpose is just pwnage, not a tactical niche...
EDIT
cap ships are also so big that it's hard for anyone other than alliances to get ahold of
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Asuka Solo
Gallente Defenders of Sovereignty
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Posted - 2011.03.27 21:45:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Asuka Solo on 27/03/2011 21:46:57 Edited by: Asuka Solo on 27/03/2011 21:45:45
Originally by: Xarissa de Tolnos Edited by: Xarissa de Tolnos on 27/03/2011 21:39:23 if you are, it's with good reason - how many aircraft carriers do you see in comparison to cruisers these days (battleships having been mostly phased out), it's because their purpose is just pwnage, not a tactical niche...
Correct my good sir. And in any self respecting navy, there will always be at least a 20:1 ratio of sub capitals to Capitals. However, you are confusing the issue of "sub-caps:capital" with the number of capital hull variations available. How many different kinds of carrier hulls does the U.S have patented?
> 1 is my guess. There be nuclear powered ones (Most common), steam/diesel powered (some of the first ever ones that are not around anymore), short decks, long decks, dual decks. Dare I go on?
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Fournone
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Posted - 2011.03.28 00:42:00 -
[9]
@ Tolnos I said tank POS guns with support. Meaning having a logi plot or 2 lending a hand. Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier.
@ Solo So would I. Also, HEY. I like the escort carrier idea! I also understand that high sec planet bashing was probably not gonna happen, which is why I had 'if concord said we could' in the originol post. This is mostly a theoretical post of if we could bombard high sec.
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Xarissa de Tolnos
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Posted - 2011.03.28 00:49:00 -
[10]
You want earlier designs - in other words (because I can't remember many cap ship types) an avatar that runs on steam power? taking the example of the USA navy - they'll bring out a couple of carriers with a certain design, then when time comes to replace them, they'll use a better design... the plan will always be for the older to be replaced by the newer, not supplemented by.
They (as far as I know) don't have a carrier designed to launch long range bombers, and another to launch fighters and protect it's big brother...
@fournone - my bad, I like this a lot more now
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Jr Ryan
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Posted - 2011.03.28 02:17:00 -
[11]
But if they don't add something like this were you can obrital bomb PI, then the planets will become overrun with people as time goes on. So there should be a way to attack other PIs in High sec I feel. Maybe not a mini dread but something that is more poweful with siege.
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Asuka Solo
Gallente Defenders of Sovereignty
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Posted - 2011.03.28 07:13:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jr Ryan But if they don't add something like this were you can obrital bomb PI, then the planets will become overrun with people as time goes on. So there should be a way to attack other PIs in High sec I feel. Maybe not a mini dread but something that is more poweful with siege.
What about this.... I havn't thought it out well and it's just struck me, so bare with my severe lack of detail.
Sansha incursions in hisec. Extend them so they include planetary sieges (And maybe not just from the Sansha....). The longer the incursion stays in the system, the more damage those hisec networks take. It may sound cruel, but an incursion that lasts a few days going on a week or so could be the DPS your looking for to take out all planetary networks, without having to turn the capital ship world on its head, or mess with hi-sec war/agro mechanics.
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Hentes Zsemle
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Posted - 2011.03.28 09:20:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Asuka Solo Edited by: Asuka Solo on 27/03/2011 21:37:55 Edited by: Asuka Solo on 27/03/2011 21:35:52 While I'm all for orbital bombardment, I can honestly say I'm a 0.0 slave and I don't see the need for hi-sec /low-sec orbital bombardments where there is no occupancy/sovereignty mechanisms for planets, stations, belts, moons or systems and thus no possibilities for Dust.
There is faction warfare however in lowsec (in which there also could be a place for dust players), it could allow a lot of ppl to take their shiney dreads for a ride. People want bigger than bs ships in highsec probably since the day they were cast out from there. There is a reason it is like this.
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Johnny Lou
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Posted - 2011.03.28 09:56:00 -
[14]
please correct the title
I skipped the thread several times because "mindreads" sounds like a weird topic. (you are missing an "i")
as for the subject itself, the sentry drones have been used for that in the past (not by players though)
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Megatits McGee
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Posted - 2011.03.28 11:10:00 -
[15]
The main problem I could see with this is in 0.0, having a platfor for sieging stuff that is bigger than a bs and can go through gates would realy change the game makeing attacking cynojammed systems a hell of alot easyer. Also depending on price you could see these minidreads becoming the new BS blob!
I'd have thought Putting in a gun that could only be used against planets and requires a charge up time, so on a 30 second cycle it fires at the end of the cycle, also only allow bs's to fit one of these "nuke it from orbit" modules |
Asuka Solo
Gallente Defenders of Sovereignty
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Posted - 2011.03.28 12:06:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Asuka Solo on 28/03/2011 12:16:32
Originally by: Hentes Zsemle
Originally by: Asuka Solo Edited by: Asuka Solo on 27/03/2011 21:37:55 Edited by: Asuka Solo on 27/03/2011 21:35:52 While I'm all for orbital bombardment, I can honestly say I'm a 0.0 slave and I don't see the need for hi-sec /low-sec orbital bombardments where there is no occupancy/sovereignty mechanisms for planets, stations, belts, moons or systems and thus no possibilities for Dust.
There is faction warfare however in lowsec (in which there also could be a place for dust players), it could allow a lot of ppl to take their shiney dreads for a ride. People want bigger than bs ships in highsec probably since the day they were cast out from there. There is a reason it is like this.
Faction warfare completely escaped me. Glad you pointed it out tho.
The problem with the faction warfare mechanic vs the Sovereignty mechanic, is that faction occupancy of a system does not translate into ownership of the system itself, outposts or planets per say. To this end, orbital bombardments can be possible in low sec since there will be capitals out there, but the question still remains: With crappy planetary yields, why would alliances even bother with hi-sec/low-sec planets that they cannot own regardless of the extent of PI development? At least from an industrial commodity perspective, the isk prospects are not good. This means Dust prospects on such planets would be pretty crappy. Industrially speaking, hi sec moons were mined out centuries ago. Low sec moons not as much, but along the same lines, which is why all the awesome moongoo is found in null sec. The same is true for planets. Hi sec planets should have been stripped bare of all natural resources ages ago, and low sec just as much. So any low sec based PI will have to be based on a non industrial approach.
If however, PI was somehow tied in with faction warfare, either via Dust mechanisms, planet based agents perhaps or something creative and innovative enough to encourage low sec PI, then there would definitely be more low sec PI networks in the making which could translate into opportunities for capitals to go into orbit and start ganking, in addition to Dust actually having a place in low sec. Sure, the end result will be slightly different for Dust players sacking low sec systems compared to their 0.0 brosefs, since their respective corporations/alliances/masters will never actually own the low secs... it would just become more of a no fly zone for enemy militias until taken back and or the masters move on to better areas of space or quit the faction warfare game.
As for the hi-sec capital argument, I would love being able to un dock my capitals in noob systems and put the babies in a state of awe all day long without fear of getting gang r4ped for docking games or sitting in the middle of a asteroid belt ratting. Or do Jita runs in a dread for lolz. In contrast to my ambitions however, I think it was wise of the CCP gods to ban the Dragons to low sec, even if it was at least on some level, an attempt to bring life to the Ghetto. However, if CCP would be keen on undoing their wise limitations and allow cyno's and capital construction back in empire, it would definitely kill low sec activity/applications/attractiveness even more while making hi-sec a much more interesting and awe inspiring place to be.
Can't say what implications this will have on Concords ability to dish out justice if a bunch of pirates were to gate camp perimeter in carriers and agro everything that came through. My guess would be that capitals as they are at present, are just to over powered for concord to contain or match in terms of DPS and it would lead to many hi-sec carebear tears with a sharp increase in jf and freighter ganks at gates.
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Fournone
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Posted - 2011.03.28 17:57:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Fournone on 28/03/2011 18:08:10 @ Lou Name has been corrected.
@ McGee Is bypassing cynojammed systems a bad thing? They have to sacrifice 2/3rd of the dreads dps and a decent amount of its tank. But I do like the idea of specialized planet bashing guns.
@ Solo Loving the idea of Sansha planet seiges. Bring more pain from the mindslaves please. Also this is not about capitals in high sec, this is about minidreads in high sec. Carriers and such will still be stuck in 0.4 and below for the reason that minidreads are small enough to fit through gates. Adding to the topic that minidreads should not be able to cyno.
In general, faction warfare could include planet seige. It sounds like a great idea, after all the militias would love to disrupt the other team in any way possible.
EDIT: wrong name for credit
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Sephiroth CloneVII
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Posted - 2011.03.28 18:34:00 -
[18]
why not just have dreads and current ships do bombardments with the guns they have.
Dreads = super strike
BS = Moderate strike
BC/Cruisers = Mediocre strikes
anything lower, can't do squat.
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Normal citizen
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Posted - 2011.03.28 19:43:00 -
[19]
Design a new hull (the tornado) and make their T2 versions minidreads. That way CCP can design specific XL turrets hardpoints.
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Taliya Valkorva
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.28 19:53:00 -
[20]
You want a battleship with an X-large gun?
A bad idea that has been suggested far too many times.
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Fournone
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Posted - 2011.03.28 19:55:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Taliya Valkorva You want a battleship with an X-large gun?
A bad idea that has been suggested far too many times.
Yes it has but I'giving it a different application. And no its jut just a battleship with an XL gun, its a small capital ship that is larger than a battleship.
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MissingNo1
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Posted - 2011.03.31 20:37:00 -
[22]
what about, the teir 3 BSs have a T2 variant, specically for planetary bombardment, with 1 cap gun/launcher, but has severve tracking problems, a -90% tracking bonus as it is hitting stuff on a planet surface so it wont need tracking or the gun can only be activated on plantary things, the ship itself has other slots ofc so it can still be used in pvp/pve, but only the same stats as the T1 version, also can fit a planetary seige mod making it stationary, BIG, and very vunerable. the seige mod also prevents ejects and self destructs maybe.
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