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Alexstrasza Moonglow
Amarr Nihilists Social Club
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Posted - 2011.03.30 12:42:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Alexstrasza Moonglow on 30/03/2011 12:44:23 Hello,
I'm fairly new to R&D in EVE, and I'm not sure I'm interpreting the Wastage Factor and ML correctly.
Here's my version of the story:
A BPO usually has 0 ML when "brand new". That equals a 10% Wastage factor, which means that I have to use 10% more materials when manufacturing something (provided the Manufactury Slot has a 1.0 factor).
Increasing the ML of the blueprint will lower that Wastage factor, thus, reducing the wasted material count down towards 0. To obtain that "Perfect ML", a BP must have a wastage factor which when applied to each material in the bill, will result in less than 0.5 units of wasted materials (according to basic math, getting a pure 0 is impossible).
So, bearing all this in mind, I've crunched some numbers and set up some ML jobs for some BPOs. Some delivered, but some left me a bit puzzled. Let's take the XRAY M Blueprint, for instance.
The vanilla BPO, with 0 ML has the following Bill of Materials:
Tritanium: 43 (Perfect: 40) Mexallon: 13 (Perfect: 12) Nocxium: 19 (Perfect: 18) Megacyte: 2
Links for reference: http://i.imgur.com/ySrh6.jpg / http://i.imgur.com/90ZM6.jpg
So in order to get a perfect level, the wastage level should be under 1.25% (0.5 / 40 x 100 = 1.25) The minimum ML needed to attain that wastage factor is 8. With ML 8, we obtain 10 / (8 + 1) = 1.11% wastage factor.
All said and done, after I get the BPO from the job, I get a funny surprise. The *new* bill of material reads:
Tritanium: 40 (Perfect: 36) Mexallon: 12 (Perfect: 11) Nocxium: 18 (Perfect: 16) Megacyte: 2
Links for reference: http://i.imgur.com/Oy27I.jpg / http://i.imgur.com/YsiFH.jpg
Sooo.... what happened to the old "perfect"? :-/
I'm puzzled by this and it's happened to not just this BPO, although there are others which have behaved as expected, reaching their "perfect" quota without any surprises.
Could anyone shed any light on the matter?
Thank you very much.
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Cyniac
Gallente Twilight Star Rangers
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Posted - 2011.03.30 12:49:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Cyniac on 30/03/2011 12:50:07 "Perfect" in the BPO means what the cost would be with perfect skills (not a perfectly researched BPO).
Thus now you researched the BPO you have a new "perfect" if you were to train up production efficiency to V you'd hit the "perfect" spot.
This also means that the "perfect" value in a new BPO is not the lowest value you can get as you can reduce the material cost both with skills and with research.
Not immediately obvious but there you have it.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.03.30 12:53:00 -
[3]
To get the real absolute perfect build value, try to recycle one batch (just open the window, don't actually recycle).
Perfect build equals perfect recycle.
Exceptions only for "extra" materials (which are not affected by ME levels anyway and you don't get them back upon recycle) and for T2 stuff (where you don't get the T1 item back, but its recycled minerals). _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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Alexstrasza Moonglow
Amarr Nihilists Social Club
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Posted - 2011.03.30 12:57:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Cyniac Edited by: Cyniac on 30/03/2011 12:50:07 "Perfect" in the BPO means what the cost would be with perfect skills (not a perfectly researched BPO).
Thus now you researched the BPO you have a new "perfect" if you were to train up production efficiency to V you'd hit the "perfect" spot.
This also means that the "perfect" value in a new BPO is not the lowest value you can get as you can reduce the material cost both with skills and with research.
Not immediately obvious but there you have it.
Ah, so basically, in the "Perfect" numbers from the bill, there's also a hidden variable coming from the Production Efficiency skill.
That makes sense now, as I have only 3 ranks in that skill. Thanks.
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Cyniac
Gallente Twilight Star Rangers
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Posted - 2011.03.30 13:01:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Alexstrasza Moonglow Ah, so basically, in the "Perfect" numbers from the bill, there's also a hidden variable coming from the Production Efficiency skill.
That makes sense now, as I have only 3 ranks in that skill. Thanks.
Clarification the "perfect" numbers from the bill *only* take into account the skill value - it does not take into account potential benefits from PE.
This confuses people sometimes who believe they are producing something at a "perfect" level when in fact they could still increase their efficiency by researching PE further - but as Akita said check what the true perfect value is before you decide if it's worth your time to pour more PE research time into your BPOs.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.03.30 13:15:00 -
[6]
ME research time, you mean ? Typo, probably, due to using "PE" for skill right before. PE research reduces build time. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.03.30 15:04:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 30/03/2011 15:12:30
Originally by: Alexstrasza Moonglow Ah, so basically, in the "Perfect" numbers from the bill, there's also a hidden variable coming from the Production Efficiency skill.
Total materials = base materials * (1.25 + base waste % / (1 + M.E.) - Production Efficiency Skill * 0.05)
Base material amount can be found in the database dump, or by looking at a M.E. 0 BPO and dividing by (1 + base waste %) and rounding. Of course, there is no waste on extra materials, so it is best to look-up the BPO from the database if you are unsure (example: bombs).
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Cyniac
Gallente Twilight Star Rangers
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Posted - 2011.04.05 10:56:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Akita T ME research time, you mean ? Typo, probably, due to using "PE" for skill right before. PE research reduces build time.
Nah just me being a bit lazy in my expression - I meant time spent researching PE - not the fact that PE will give you a benefit to build time.
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LordRechin
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Posted - 2011.04.05 11:10:00 -
[9]
http://zofu.no-ip.de/bpo Try this for your calculations i think it will help
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Antihrist Pripravnik
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.04.05 11:20:00 -
[10]
EVEMon developers have added a new built-in module that will show you how much time/materials you will need for manufacturing. You can even change the values and see the results of changes. Since it's EVEMon, it will also take into account your skills and implants you might have automatically.
If you haven't already, you can download it on their official site at http://evemon.battleclinic.com/
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