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Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2011.03.31 17:47:00 -
[1]
I have always felt there was a gap in the ship classes and never really had a solid reason for it, but now i have atleast some backing as to why it would make sense.
First off - Where the ship class fits in.
It fits in between battleships and capital ships (dread and carrier). I say here because based on the the various prices this is where a filler class is missing. By filler class i mean a class like destroyers and battlecruisers. while the prices are not relatively current in terms of value the relative values would all come real close to the following. The most expensive racial frigates are around 1/4 the cost of a destroyer and the destroyers are around 1/3 the cost of the cheapest cruiser. Battlecruisers have virtually the same relation ship between cruisers and battleships. Also note that this puts cruisers starting at about 12x the cost of the most expensive frigates and the battleships starting also around 12x the cost of cruisers. Currently the most expesive battleships cost around 120 mil and dreadnaught hulls cost about 1.5 billion. That is again a 12x increase from battleship to dreadnaught. That leaves the perfect space to add another filler class.
Fleet ships - The basic idea
The basic idea is for the ships to fill a specific role and be semi designed around that role. The class may and probably should have a few different ships (i see atleast 2) each filling a different role. I will give a better idea in the next post but the two types I see atm are what i call the "Fleet Escort" and the "Fleet Tender". They should run approximately 4x the cost of the appropriate racial tier 3 battleship to make. As these are also pocket capital ships in a sense, I feel they should use capital construction parts to make just like dreads, carriers and the like. Below is a basic outline of the idea I had for the two ships and possible roles.
Fleet Escort û These ships will be large slow ships compared to Battleships but would seem fast and agile compared to Dreadnaughts. The idea of this class is to provide a sort of defensive platform for guarding capital fleets and safeguarding fleet logistics locations. General fitting for these ships is to include X-Large weapons (approximately 5 to 6) with damage bonus to the X-Large weapons. These ships should be able to travel via stargate (no jumpdrive) and they should be allowed in empire. These massive ships are slow though only capable of hitting approximately 1.5 AU/s while in warp and around 100 m/s under normal propulsion. Due to their massive size, 100mn Afterburners and microwarp drives would not provide much benefit as they would have about the same affect as fitting the 100mn afterburner or microwarp drive to a carrier or dreadnaught. As a Fleet escort it may be feasible to provide some role bonus similar to the role bonus/penalty that a standard tech 1 destroyer receives.
Fleet Tender or Fleet Support û These ships will have a similar size to the fleet escorts but instead of being weapon based, these ships will get logistics bonuses mainly to aid capital ships via repairs, or capacitor support. The cap recharge bonus should allow these ships to fairly quickly recharge the capacitor on a carrier or dreadnaught to allow it to quickly jump again without the need to a specialized travel fitting (capital energy transfer array with maybe an amount bonus but not a huge range bonus). These ships may have a limited number of Large weapons and drones. These ships would also have a specialized ôSupply Bayö that can be configured to allow fleet member access. This supply bay would be able to hold all types of ammo, probes, charges, the different ice products. This supply bay would basically function like a shared can in terms of access. Idea is that this would be between 50k and 100k m3 in size (not expandable).
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shadowace00007
Amarr Beyond The Gates
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Posted - 2011.03.31 17:55:00 -
[2]
I think this would be a little overpowered. But I would like to see X-L weapons come into play more. maybe make them have a - effect on rate of fire or damage like on destroyers. And make them unable to tank more then a BS but have a large signature radius. ----------- Born Amarr, Raised Minmatar. |
Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2011.03.31 18:04:00 -
[3]
yeah the point of the escort is not to replace the dreadnaught itself (dread would still out damage it in seige mode) but the escort would still pack a good punch. as for tank it has no tank bonus so even if it used capital armor and shield reps the tank would not be that great. They would probably work best with buffer tanks as opposed to active tanks. The main reason i think they should get a bit of a damage bonus is to make them useful in hitting high sec large POS towers that most groups dont bother with due to the time and number of battleships required to hurt them. These escorts could add in a new type of mercenary gameplay in that they get hired to hit high sec POS.
I dont expect these things to tank half as good as a dreadnaught and it can be limited by limiting the PG and CPU so that they are difficult to fit with high tank and gank.
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Corporal Punishment08
NosWaffle Nostradamus Effect
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Posted - 2011.03.31 18:06:00 -
[4]
Good ideas. I would think that a fleet escort ship would be something that can ensure the safe arrival of a fleet to their destination, whether it be a cargo-carrying fleet or a battle fleet. Not much offensive capabilities, but able to divert targets and take alot of damage. Maybe a new module for this specific role, like an ECM module, but instead of breaking target lock, the specific ship takes target lock from the ship being attacked, so all weapons are diverted to the fleet escort ship... Could be a throw-away ship or a massive tank ship... _____________________________________ Real men corpse tank. |
shadowace00007
Amarr Beyond The Gates
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Posted - 2011.03.31 18:10:00 -
[5]
I was thinking something like this. it pushes about 1500 DPSish and has things to drop the PW and CPU of the blasters to make it fit. but it cant fit much more then what you see here. maybe let it have some boost to tank but nothing more then 5% to boost or resist level like on T2 or tear 3 BCs
[Rokh, Set up for "mini Cap ships"] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II
X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Warp Disruptor II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I, Antimatter Charge XL Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I, Antimatter Charge XL Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I, Antimatter Charge XL Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I, Antimatter Charge XL Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I, Antimatter Charge XL Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I, Antimatter Charge XL [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hammerhead II x5
----------- Born Amarr, Raised Minmatar. |
Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2011.03.31 18:21:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Selak Zorander on 31/03/2011 18:22:21 yeah that is very much like what i had in mind.
Enough fitting (or hidden bonus to reduce fitting requirement to x-large weapons) to fit 5 or 6 max x-larger turrets with bonuses to the turrets (even caldari making it a big brother to the rohk) and fitting one capital repairer of the correct type (shield or armor). For mids and lows i was thinking of starting with the mids and lows on the dread (basically take each racial dread give + 1 high slot and make all high slots turrets) give it no siege module and give it something like +10% to +15% turret damage (lvl 5 would put it at around 2/3 dread in siege mode damage) with a destroyer like penalty aside from the poor lock time from a capital ship and the horrid sig resolution from the guns making them hunters of battleships and larger and not to effective against smaller ships without drawbacks.
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shadowace00007
Amarr Beyond The Gates
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Posted - 2011.03.31 18:30:00 -
[7]
I am game. that would be great even more so for my corp as we live in WHs and having something that can do good damage to sleepers but not be able to solo you would need 2 or 3 to do a site. ----------- Born Amarr, Raised Minmatar. |
Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2011.03.31 18:38:00 -
[8]
Glad you like the idea...the one other guy I have spoken to about it liked it to and after thinking on it more i figured it was time to post and see if anyone else liked it to.
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2011.03.31 20:09:00 -
[9]
This sounds like a mini-dread, that costs half as much, does 30% less dps, doesn't require fuel, travels via standard gates, and most importantly, DOESN'T SIEGE....
Given the current proliferation of SC's, which kill sieged dreads in 30 s - 1 min, why would anyone risk a 1.5b isk dreadnaught that gets stuck on the field for 10 minute cycles, if they could fly a ship half the cost, almost as much dps, that receives logistic support, and can align and warp to safety the moment trouble comes? IF SC's haven't made the dreads completely obsolete yet, this certainly would be the straw that breaks the camels back!
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shadowace00007
Amarr Beyond The Gates
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Posted - 2011.03.31 20:39:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Gizznitt Malikite This sounds like a mini-dread, that costs half as much, does 30% less dps, doesn't require fuel, travels via standard gates, and most importantly, DOESN'T SIEGE....
Given the current proliferation of SC's, which kill sieged dreads in 30 s - 1 min, why would anyone risk a 1.5b isk dreadnaught that gets stuck on the field for 10 minute cycles, if they could fly a ship half the cost, almost as much dps, that receives logistic support, and can align and warp to safety the moment trouble comes? IF SC's haven't made the dreads completely obsolete yet, this certainly would be the straw that breaks the camels back!
I think we are going for 2/3 of the power of unsieged dreads. From what I hear Dreads are going to be given a huge buff once Dust comes out. also strike the ground from space. so I don't think they will be phased out. but I do think they will be less used for non pos bashes. same thing as BSs if your not fighting cap sized ships you go for a BC. simply because of the speed they push. ----------- Born Amarr, Raised Minmatar. |
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Rakamy
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Posted - 2011.03.31 20:50:00 -
[11]
I am game you should bring this into the Assembly Hall
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tpwh21
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Posted - 2011.03.31 21:44:00 -
[12]
i have been thinking about this for a while. I always thought a range of orca class ships was what was needed. think there should be around 6 orca variants- hauling orca, mining orca, command orca, ECM orca, logistics orca, DPS orca. perhaps even a black ops and drone orca as well... it doesn't jump. its pretty slow. its at about the right price point.... in some way i would restrict their use solo - perhaps making combat tanks pretty weak. - or attacking BS sized ships impossible without remote tracking and sensor boosting, perhaps. boosting viability of black ops fleets would also be cool.
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Admiral Leviathan
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Posted - 2011.03.31 22:15:00 -
[13]
we already have the middle ground. it's called Machariel.
wow! look at the size of that thing!
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Captain Brickwalle
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Posted - 2011.04.01 00:29:00 -
[14]
These ideas are exactly what marauders are.
More dps than a BS less tank.
wow. |
Hayaishi
Gallente Aperture Harmonics
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Posted - 2011.04.01 08:04:00 -
[15]
I've always had the idea of "Battle carriers". Think of a carrier, but only large weapons w/ -25% turret damage, and the ability to use up to 10 drones. It will, although, in ways of balancing, NOT have a drone damage bonus, just hitpoints, max speed, whatever, but have a damage bonus for it's guns.
Making it more of a drone support ship, perhaps throwing in some logistics capability (like the T1 logistics cruisers).
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