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Jaik7
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Posted - 2011.04.06 15:16:00 -
[1]
i use shields almost exclusivly. i like them because i have skills for them, i'm familiar with the mechanics, they have passive regen, and i like having armor and hull to run away when i screw up with instead of just hull. most importantly, i like the slot layout it allows. shields take mid slots, which lets you load up speed, cargo, and/or weapon upgrades in the lows.
my understanding of why armor would be good is the resists and the ability to fit more hitpoints on larger ships.
at the moment, armor seems to be the more popular. is this because gallente carriers are great, and amarrian battleships spider well? or does it have to do with the weapons systems that are on armor ships?
also, why do armor ships get the mom kills in incursions? traditionally, missiles are better at killing both rats and large targets. the mom is a rat, and it is a large object, but the armor ships with lasers always seem to get the kill. is it because there is something i'm missing that's better about armors, or are there just more of them?
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Comboduck
Judicio Sine Misericordia
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Posted - 2011.04.06 17:03:00 -
[2]
Shield tanking = Speed, lot's of damage, less tank. (Unless draek) Armor tanking = Room in mids for eccm, web/scram, cap boosters and even offensive ewar.
A very common reason for preferring armor BS over shield BS is that three out of four races armor tanks decently, where's only two of four races shield tanks decently.
Gallente carriers are not great (unless u're ratting), archons are the preferred ones because of their good cap and armor resist bonus.
It used to be OMG ALL ARMOR, but these days shield fleets are just as common. The ever so popular draek and/or alpha fleet has proven that is can indeed work if you want it to.
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Batelle
do you
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Posted - 2011.04.06 17:09:00 -
[3]
gallente subcaps can shield tank quite well you know.
--------------------------------------------- EC-P8R... You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. |
Kithran
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Posted - 2011.04.06 18:14:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Kithran on 06/04/2011 18:16:00 OK going by the last question you are looking at this primarily from an Incursion point of view.
Shield Incursion pluses - speed, damage mods, remote rep lands at start of cycle Shield Incursion minuses - larger signature, reduced utility mods
Armour Incursion pluses - utility mods (web, target painter, ecm), smaller sig Armour Incursion minuses - reduced damage mods, slow
With regard to MOM fights part of it is the makeup of the ships - have a look at the number of BS in most armour MOM fleets, compare to the number of BS in most shield MOM fleet. Generally armour has more. Winning the MOM fight is all about which fleet deals the most damage to the sansha (not just the MOM but all Sansha ships in site). Tactics can also help one fleet or another, depending on the exact situation (e.g. targetting the right things to maximise the amount of your damage that gets through resistances). Shield can (and does on occasion) beat armour however if the only dps ships x'ing up are drakes (especially if they are fitting lots of SPRs instead of BCUs) then they will have a hard time of it.
Also just becuase a particular ship is usually armour tanked doesn't mean it can't work shield tanked or vice-versa. I've seen armour tanked scorpions, armour tanked ravens, shield tanked zealots, shield tanked vindicators etc in incursion fleets.
Kithran
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Lamar Calrissian
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Posted - 2011.04.06 21:40:00 -
[5]
am i the only one that read this thread as Armor 5 Shields?
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Jaik7
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Posted - 2011.04.07 04:51:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Lamar Calrissian am i the only one that read this thread as Armor 5 Shields?
changed V to Vs
happy now?
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Boon McBwen
Caldari Avalon Project Shadow Rock Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.07 13:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Jaik7
Originally by: Lamar Calrissian am i the only one that read this thread as Armor 5 Shields?
changed V to Vs
happy now?
i was happy to start... well, id be happier if the server was up
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shadowace00007
Amarr Beyond The Gates
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Posted - 2011.04.07 13:12:00 -
[8]
Edited by: shadowace00007 on 07/04/2011 13:12:38 The biggest difference I have found is that shields are more for Tanking and armor is more for buffering. at least of PVP. granted there's always exceptions but if you look at just about all ships that shield tank 75% to 80% of the time they are actively tanked or passively tanked.
As terms of fittings its alot harder to balance a ship for pvp that uses shields because you need your mids for "utility's" that only go there AKA. Speed mod, Web, Scram, ECM, Painter, Tracking disruptor, Sensor disruptor, and who can forget the almighty Cap boosters.
Now the last important thing is that this game has no real this ship has to fly this way. Example Crusader fit with auto cannons. Shield buffer Cain, Shield buffer nano Harb. Armor buffer Scorpion You name it it has been done. I fly a few of those myself but always consult EFT and if your trying something crazy, try it on the test server first. ----------- Born Amarr, Raised Minmatar. |
Dan Pyre
Amarr Wolfsbrigade
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Posted - 2011.04.11 17:31:00 -
[9]
Originally by: shadowace00007 Edited by: shadowace00007 on 07/04/2011 13:12:38 Crusader fit with auto cannons
You mean the Claw?
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BolsterBomb
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Posted - 2011.04.11 19:38:00 -
[10]
dont listen to Dan, he was born with a lucky horseshoe in his butt.
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Galius Zed
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Posted - 2011.04.11 20:06:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Batelle gallente subcaps can shield tank quite well you know.
I just came across a shield-tanked Brutix flown by someone spec'd in shields and I must say, it was a surprise watching its shields go down that slow. I started looking around for a missing RR somewhere. And, I've also seen shield Myrms do extremely well!
This kind of out-of-box thinking can win fights, but in general, unless you're skills are up to spec, don't be surprised if you get an lol in local after you die very quickly.
~GZ
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Irani Firecam
Gallente Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2011.04.11 20:14:00 -
[12]
Shield Brutix (and Astarte) are probably more common than their armour counterparts, just because it allows you to do what it should do best, have high speed to get into range and apply serious dps on the target before going down.
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Cephelange du'Krevviq
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Posted - 2011.04.11 20:53:00 -
[13]
Trying to get a grasp of the various terms used - what's the difference between tanking and buffering, please?
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Bedlin
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Posted - 2011.04.11 21:28:00 -
[14]
Buffering for armor means having a crap ton of health, hopefully enough for you to drop the guys your fighting and then go get repairs.
Buffering for shields means a ton of shield health, hopefully enough for you to drop the guys your fighting (this also increases passive regen)
Tanking is usually sustained combat fitting moderate amount of health and then usually decent resists and either a local rep unit or a spider setup from fleet-mates or logi support
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Cephelange du'Krevviq
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Posted - 2011.04.11 21:48:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Bedlin Buffering for armor means having a crap ton of health, hopefully enough for you to drop the guys your fighting and then go get repairs.
Buffering for shields means a ton of shield health, hopefully enough for you to drop the guys your fighting (this also increases passive regen)
Tanking is usually sustained combat fitting moderate amount of health and then usually decent resists and either a local rep unit or a spider setup from fleet-mates or logi support
Ok, got it; thanks for the explanation.
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Elsa Nietchize
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Posted - 2011.04.12 20:12:00 -
[16]
Armor is preferred as you go up to bigger ships. This is mainly because of the buffer you can fit in an armor tank. In large fights, more HP is is king. This was crucial back in the days of the old DD. Without sufficient HP, you were dead. HP is still preferred in larger fights. Some have argued that remote armor rep is more cap efficient than remote shield rep. Though it seems RR BS are becoming fewer in favor of dedicated logi. As others have stated, there are now decent arguments for both armor and shield fit fleets. The reality is you need to fly what your fleet is flying. and your fleet should be flying what your logi can support. In the advent of artillery as king, buffer is becoming important again. This is seen in that more ships are fitting it. since people are buffer fitting and logi are becoming so prevalent, often, the only chance you have to kill is through alpha. It doesn't take that long to train up armor skills. you can fit many ships to be both armor or shield tanked. don't look at it as why do i have to train such and such skill. rather, it's a tool. if you have both trained, you're more likely to be prepared.
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Aldo Bridger
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Posted - 2011.04.12 22:57:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Irani Firecam Astarte
I haven't seen one in years. Please tell me who flys one and where I can find them.
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