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Lord Jasta
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Posted - 2011.04.10 11:12:00 -
[1]
Please sign below if you think CCP should rethink the way the destroyed our money making abilities in Null Sec.
We demand you either fix this change or some how compensate us for our isk lost.
Give us back our havens and sanctums!
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.10 12:04:00 -
[2]
The ISK faucets had to go. It is that simple.
You got a whole set of new plexes to run. No, profits will not be as high as farming Sanctums day in and day out, but it will be doable. It will be possible for your alliance to pull through.
Besides, 15 months ago this was not an issue...why is it an issue now? How did you make ISK in null back then? -----------------------------------
Give us Drone Implants! |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.04.10 12:09:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Lord Jasta Please sign below if you think CCP should rethink the way the destroyed our money making abilities in Null Sec.
The potential income has increased, not decreased. Difference is that it is no longer an afk activity and will require some effort .. easy ISK bad, hard ISK good. Exploration was and still is insanely lucrative, you should give it a whirl.
Originally by: Lord Jasta We demand you either fix this change or some how compensate us for our isk lost.
Have you ever read the EULA? You have no rights. Zero, Nada, Zilch. Demanding anything just makes you look like a fool.
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phantomshura
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.04.10 15:03:00 -
[4]
the isk faucent in empire is way worse and im back earning way more in lv4 than i was in 0.0 sinse the nerf, OP you should go back to empire too =).
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zombielook
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Posted - 2011.04.11 19:55:00 -
[5]
Instead of whining about it, why do you just go sieze better space or something like that?
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End User
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Posted - 2011.04.12 04:49:00 -
[6]
Edited by: End User on 12/04/2011 04:53:44 not gonna happen but signed anyways.
and for all you 'isk faucet' idiots I predict that the total isk from ratting will only dip temporally while the good space gets developed as power blocks adjust and develop it. there are currently unclaimed systems that could potentially have 6 sanctums. it's just a big kick in the teeth for all the small alliances like mine who put blood sweat and tears into building up a ****ty system. at least we (narrowly) dodged dropping a station *phew*
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Veronica Alma
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Posted - 2011.04.12 04:57:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Lord Jasta Please sign below if you think CCP should rethink the way the destroyed our money making abilities in Null Sec.
The potential income has increased, not decreased. Difference is that it is no longer an afk activity and will require some effort .. easy ISK bad, hard ISK good. Exploration was and still is insanely lucrative, you should give it a whirl.
Originally by: Lord Jasta We demand you either fix this change or some how compensate us for our isk lost.
Have you ever read the EULA? You have no rights. Zero, Nada, Zilch. Demanding anything just makes you look like a fool.
actually as a customer. not demanding anything makes you look like a fool.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.04.12 07:21:00 -
[8]
there are opportunities of making ISK in 0.0. You just need a proper space. Go get it.
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Zan Shiro
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Posted - 2011.04.12 07:31:00 -
[9]
Originally by: zombielook Instead of whining about it, why do you just go sieze better space or something like that?
first there was moon goo wars. Now there will be NPC space wars lol.
We lost 5 tech moons today. Meh, didn't want those moons anyway. Now the bad news, we lost sov in a system next to NPC agents. WTF...nooooooooo
lol
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.04.12 07:36:00 -
[10]
people are used to get served everything on a silver platter. aka sitting in a ****ty space and farm juicy rats. This has stopped, now you are forced to fight for your sunny place in eve.
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MWDrive
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Posted - 2011.04.12 07:57:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Robert Caldera people are used to get served everything on a silver platter. aka sitting in a ****ty space and farm juicy rats. This has stopped, now you are forced to fight for your sunny place in eve.
Yeah, that has stopped. Now you have to get used to getting everything served on a silver platter, aka sitting in ****ty highsec space and farming juicy rats. |
Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.12 08:11:00 -
[12]
Originally by: MWDrive
Originally by: Robert Caldera people are used to get served everything on a silver platter. aka sitting in a ****ty space and farm juicy rats. This has stopped, now you are forced to fight for your sunny place in eve.
Yeah, that has stopped. Now you have to get used to getting everything served on a silver platter, aka sitting in ****ty highsec space and farming juicy rats.
Hisec missions will get a swing of the nerfbat as well, depending on how the coming change works out. -----------------------------------
Give us Drone Implants! |
eleve
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Posted - 2011.04.12 10:47:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Horizonist
Originally by: MWDrive
Originally by: Robert Caldera people are used to get served everything on a silver platter. aka sitting in a ****ty space and farm juicy rats. This has stopped, now you are forced to fight for your sunny place in eve.
Yeah, that has stopped. Now you have to get used to getting everything served on a silver platter, aka sitting in ****ty highsec space and farming juicy rats.
Hisec missions will get a swing of the nerfbat as well, depending on how the coming change works out.
When? Why I haven't heard about it? Anyway, if it is going to happen, it's one of the best things they can do to eve.
IMO old anomaly system was stupid and the new balance makes it suck even more. All anomalies should spawn randomly and better true sec systems should only have better change of getting high end anomalies. Nothing makes better inside drama than doing 10 yards and then finally when you get sanctum, you realize that someone from your alliance has already went to do it.
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nano bobcat
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Posted - 2011.04.12 11:38:00 -
[14]
Edited by: nano bobcat on 12/04/2011 11:39:32
you cant compare sanctums to lvl4
you could farm the first continuously right away -scan -kill everything -re-ammunition if run out of ammo -rince and repeat
without moving across different systems, interacting with the agent, all the crap missions etc for a lower reward. In sanctums I've got 75m/h with a single tengu in NC space, over 100m with a nightmare + 5 fighter in sansha space.
What you get in empire?? 30-40m/h?
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Septu Resheph
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Posted - 2011.04.12 15:45:00 -
[15]
No no no no no......just no
If you want to petition for something, you need to make a logical argument for it. Let me try to assist,
By creating a system that bases the anomalies in a null sec system via the true sec. The goal was to create conflict & the make it easier for small alliances to get a foot hold in 0.0
The problem with this idea is that, havens & sanctums was a resource for this new small alliance to generate isk & use it to grow themselves. Since after all you must send money to make money. This is especially pronounced when purchasing caps & super caps, the currency of 0.0 What was created is that small alliances will squabble over 0.0 - -0.4 space. Medium alliances will fight over -0.4-0.7 space. Large alliances will fight over-0.6-0.8 space. The major power blocks that be will hold with an iron fist anything that they want. They will own all of the tech moons and all of the -1.0--0.8 and WTF pawn anyone that is dumb enough to try to venture into their territory. Why is this? They are fighting over the major resources to gain isk. How am I to afford this 15-20 bill super cap for said power block if I hold ****ty space? Its gona be really really hard at best. In essence what has happened is that the rich and powerful have become more rich and powerful and the new alliances just got kicked in the face. Now yes this particular set up in the goal of creating more fighting should be very successful in that respect.
However, it would be better to have say, 0.0 - -0.2 stays the same. Then as the true sec progressively goes more and more negative you start gaining more havens, then more and more ore and belts, then sanctums at say -0.7 and give that type of progression. This is a lot easier on small corps and alliances. The down side of this type of set up is there is even a larger creation of isk ingame. To counter this more isk sinks would have to be created. What type of sinks? There are many options but this particular set up is hard on the economy, small corps and alliances. Option 2 is what they did, money and isk making options is still plentiful. The problem this creates is that capital pilots that want to rat in their carriers to make isk off and on would want to join mostly just large alliances that can give them access to sanctums and havens.
The isk generation helps to facilitate the growth in the ships people pvp in. T3 ships, HAC's, all of the high end modals, the capitals and super capital fights. This is possible by having things that generate isk easily. This lets us more easily get past using t1 ships to try to accomplish the mission and field more expensive ships more often. Since the advent of these havens and sanctums and such, we have seem alot more of these high end ships being made and being used in pvp. However if all of this removed, it would simply take more skill and knowledge to live in 0.0 and make it, there is a lot less of a draw for 0.0 to grow but the isk making potential of the space would not really change for those that know what theya re looking for or how to make isk in general.
There are problems no matter where we look. The only question is what is the greater of the 2 evils.
I will say though imo, this latest update the CCP Grayscale or w/e it is and frankly I don't care. Point being that the update was a massive screw up and it is bugged to all hell. For instance the space I live in should have sanctums, half the time we can't even find a haven. *claps for fail testing of the patch and fail input from economist on CCP staff*. I don't think this was the right way to create conflict in 0.0 and has a impact on how I make my isk but I am still making it all the same. 2.5bill in the hole atm and I have earned 500m of that back.....this is gona take a little while I think lmao. I think the moons should be changed back to what they were before the update making certain 0.0 moons worth insane amounts. I also think that this last patch should be changed back, anomaly change ba
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.04.12 15:52:00 -
[16]
Originally by: phantomshura the isk faucent in empire is way worse and im back earning way more in lv4 than i was in 0.0 sinse the nerf, OP you should go back to empire too =).
Lying is bad nono. Haven't mommy told you that?
Highsec lvl4: 10 mil isk bounty for clearing site 2 mil isk rewards + bonus 5.5k LP
Cost of batch of CN cruiser missiles in LP shop = 4.2k LP +4.2 mil isk
Net isk faucet = 6.5 mil isk, assuming that you kill everything in mission and clear site, mission rats are not drone, empire faction, or merc.
Blitz, or run non-pirate rats missions, and it's a net isk sink.
Sov null sanctum running in a 1500+ dps ratting carrier = 100+ mil isk per hour, of liquid isk in the form of large rat bounty.
Isk faucet = 100+ mil isk per hour.
The Sanctum nerf is a step in the right direction. Yet more is needed.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.04.12 16:41:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Septu Resheph
The problem with this idea is that, havens & sanctums was a resource for this new small alliance to generate isk & use it to grow themselves.
stopped reading here.
Your fault is your assumption there are "small alliances" in terms of "independent". In fact, those "small" alliances were just spacefiller, bloating up large and already monumental powerblocks, making them indestructible by fight. There were possibly some few independent alliances/corps claiming bad space somewhere on the map but the majority of them always joined a bigger power, so this argument is invalid in a discussion about general 0.0 mechanics.
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Red Morbo
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Posted - 2011.04.12 17:53:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: phantomshura the isk faucent in empire is way worse and im back earning way more in lv4 than i was in 0.0 sinse the nerf, OP you should go back to empire too =).
The Sanctum nerf is a step in the right direction. Yet more is needed.
Cant remember the last time lvl 4 grinders could have someone warp in and blow up these expensive ships and pods ( risk vs reward factor) and then lose all there belongings in station if they dont defend the space.
if this is a step in the right way why not move 4's to null 3's to low, make strip miners a 3 hour cycle and worm hole space randomly implode, why not?
High sec farmers are a bigger problem than null sec pvpers paying for combat.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.04.12 17:57:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Red Morbo
Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: phantomshura the isk faucent in empire is way worse and im back earning way more in lv4 than i was in 0.0 sinse the nerf, OP you should go back to empire too =).
The Sanctum nerf is a step in the right direction. Yet more is needed.
Cant remember the last time lvl 4 grinders could have someone warp in and blow up these expensive ships and pods ( risk vs reward factor) and then lose all there belongings in station if they dont defend the space.
if this is a step in the right way why not move 4's to null 3's to low, make strip miners a 3 hour cycle and worm hole space randomly implode, why not?
High sec farmers are a bigger problem than null sec pvpers paying for combat.
Highsec carebears and their multibillion isk pimpboats get blown up all the time by random idiots. In the deep blue ass of large alliance, you don't see hostiles for weeks on end. Null sec farmers and their 100+ mil per hour isk faucets are the biggest problem facing Eve economy. Highsec mission blitzers and their LP shop isk sink is the solution.
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Septu Resheph
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Posted - 2011.04.12 18:11:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: Septu Resheph
The problem with this idea is that, havens & sanctums was a resource for this new small alliance to generate isk & use it to grow themselves.
stopped reading here.
Your fault is your assumption there are "small alliances" in terms of "independent". In fact, those "small" alliances were just spacefiller, bloating up large and already monumental powerblocks, making them indestructible by fight. There were possibly some few independent alliances/corps claiming bad space somewhere on the map but the majority of them always joined a bigger power, so this argument is invalid in a discussion about general 0.0 mechanics.
Robert Caldera although it is true that the ideal step for a small alliance is to get into a coalition with a powerblock, that is not always the case, I have seen a rise of many small alliances in 0.0 this is no secret they are there, just look around. Second big power blocks aren't going to stop a campaign to help some small alliance within take their own space, they won't give a small alliance very good space, at best you MIGHT if your lucky have your alliance sit in their home space to keep the space warm for them at level 5 upgrades for when they come back. That is best case scenario and a rare one at that. The only thing a small alliance is to a large one is cannon fodder and something that may potentially grow into something more. The power block will only allow you into their fold if you are bring something to them, they need to be gaining.
This makes your argument null and void, bad space is still going to be fought over, the power blocks won't care unless its a major jump point or something of high value to them there like a tech moon, other then that you will be on your own. This is assuming you even can bring something to the plate to offer them to be allowed in.
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Red Morbo
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Posted - 2011.04.12 18:16:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: Red Morbo
Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: phantomshura the isk faucent in empire is way worse and im back earning way more in lv4 than i was in 0.0 sinse the nerf, OP you should go back to empire too =).
The Sanctum nerf is a step in the right direction. Yet more is needed.
Highsec carebears and their multibillion isk pimpboats get blown up all the time by random idiots. In the deep blue ass of large alliance, you don't see hostiles for weeks on end. Null sec farmers and their 100+ mil per hour isk faucets are the biggest problem facing Eve economy. Highsec mission blitzers and their LP shop isk sink is the solution.
LOL those high sec idiots that lose there ships from running while war dec'd deserve to have them blown up. you dont think thats matched by people in null having multi billion ratting/pvp ships blown up, null isnt a magic isk hole, bots are.
If we're having our isk making ability taken from under us why should high sec farmers be unaffected. Didn't relise ccp premoted being a idiot, must just employ them ;)
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.04.12 18:22:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Red Morbo
If we're having our isk making ability taken from under us why should high sec farmers be unaffected. Didn't relise ccp premoted being a idiot, must just employ them ;)
Simple, your Sanctum isk faucet is ruining Eve economy. Their LP shop isk sink is helping the Eve economy. Just like that. Life's not fair.
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Diana Kali
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Posted - 2011.04.12 18:32:00 -
[23]
Here is an idea, make havens and sanctums twice as hard as they are now. Lets say 3k+ omni tank minimum needed + 700 dps minimum, Sanctums more so like 5k omni tank + 1200 dps needed? Isk amount would go up do to difficulty but it would slow and stop many of the people that do run them. Still allows carriers to run them, a well designed group could run them. Return the set up to 2 havens and 2 sanctums per system, true sec effects how good they are. Isk goes from river to trickle since they would be so much harder to run.
Life isn't fair.
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Red Morbo
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Posted - 2011.04.12 19:44:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Goose99
Simple, your Sanctum isk faucet is ruining Eve economy. Their LP shop isk sink is helping the Eve economy. Just like that. Life's not fair.
UMMMMM from what i remember i made tons of isk out of LP, hows that a sink?
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.04.12 20:03:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 12/04/2011 20:06:49
Originally by: Septu Resheph
Robert Caldera although it is true that the ideal step for a small alliance is to get into a coalition with a powerblock, that is not always the case, I have seen a rise of many small alliances in 0.0 this is no secret they are there, just look around. Second big power blocks aren't going to stop a campaign to help some small alliance within take their own space, they won't give a small alliance very good space, at best you MIGHT if your lucky have your alliance sit in their home space to keep the space warm for them at level 5 upgrades for when they come back. That is best case scenario and a rare one at that. The only thing a small alliance is to a large one is cannon fodder and something that may potentially grow into something more. The power block will only allow you into their fold if you are bring something to them, they need to be gaining.
This makes your argument null and void, bad space is still going to be fought over, the power blocks won't care unless its a major jump point or something of high value to them there like a tech moon, other then that you will be on your own. This is assuming you even can bring something to the plate to offer them to be allowed in.
I didnt say its the best way to join a powerblock, however its what most of alliances do, for the safety and for the option of batphone. You're right, bad space is still fought over but the other thing of small alliances bloating up existing powerblocks will not occur that much anymore because they wont get that much out of crapspace anymore.
Originally by: Red Morbo
Originally by: Goose99
Simple, your Sanctum isk faucet is ruining Eve economy. Their LP shop isk sink is helping the Eve economy. Just like that. Life's not fair.
UMMMMM from what i remember i made tons of isk out of LP, hows that a sink?
they take ISK out of the game
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Zan Shiro
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Posted - 2011.04.12 22:54:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Goose99 Highsec carebears and their multibillion isk pimpboats get blown up all the time by random idiots. In the deep blue ass of large alliance, you don't see hostiles for weeks on end. Null sec farmers and their 100+ mil per hour isk faucets are the biggest problem facing Eve economy. Highsec mission blitzers and their LP shop isk sink is the solution.
this...lived in 0.0 and back in empire. 0.0 safer imo. System all blue....pimp it up. Got intel to give traffic reports as well. Hac roam 4 jumps out, safe or be made fun when ship is lost. All you have to worry about is hostile log in in system. And unless they are wtf probe gods or really lucky...you got buffer time to safe with them too. And afk cloak...but I play an offtime and these showed up easy sometimes. Did not have the heart to tell a few afk'ers server rebooted 4 hours before dt...and they weren't awake to be there to relogin to look like they were in the asia/aussie/nz tz.
Empire....2 maels all nice and grey (just like the other 100 people in system). Till they roll the dice on a station gank no scan, tengu goes boom potentially. Is that an honest vulture...or scout for a gank party?
NC....farmed the north for years. Hell during the IT campaign over a year ago, components of the north happily kept on ratting and left pure blind to pets/bff's to have fun in. Core nc only committed in the tribute push and the h-w bubble cage. Russians, been farming drones for years. Set themselves up nice there. Only they want the space....don't see pl saving we got delve....lets haul **** across the galaxy to farm us some drones lol.
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EnderCapitalG
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.13 00:47:00 -
[27]
NC and DC will sit happy in their mostly unnerfed systems, while the south will all return to highsec to run Level 4's.
What's wrong with this?
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.04.13 06:56:00 -
[28]
The NC (incl. "DC") will suffer most from the nerf, since all the pets in worthless space will run away to empire.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.04.13 14:13:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Diana Kali Here is an idea, make havens and sanctums twice as hard as they are now. Lets say 3k+ omni tank minimum needed + 700 dps minimum, Sanctums more so like 5k omni tank + 1200 dps needed? Isk amount would go up do to difficulty but it would slow and stop many of the people that do run them. Still allows carriers to run them, a well designed group could run them. Return the set up to 2 havens and 2 sanctums per system, true sec effects how good they are. Isk goes from river to trickle since they would be so much harder to run.
Life isn't fair.
Your idea of buffing carrier sanctum farming on steroids is going to remain an idea. Life isn't fair.
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