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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
696
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Posted - 2012.09.02 11:55:00 -
[361] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Frying Doom wrote:There is no proof Yes there is. They have logged in. If they have, they have unavoidably been informed on numerous occasions. No they have been informed over a 2 week period earlier this year that voting for a CSM that has something to do with incursions or maybe a player corp occurred, that's about it. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
696
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Posted - 2012.09.02 11:56:00 -
[362] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Tippia wrote:If you feel it's a problem, then go on a campaign spree and educate them and see if that helps FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NO
Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Lord Zim
1229
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Posted - 2012.09.02 11:56:00 -
[363] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:There is no proof that they have been informed or that they have chosen not to vote Except they're informed every time they check a myriad of forums, every time they log in, and every time they read a ton of various gaming sites. They have to literally work at not being informed.
Frying Doom wrote:As I have said before with only 1/3 of 1% needed to win a seat more needs to be done to educate the voters as to the role and importance of the CSM. They are already as educated as they want to be. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9313
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:00:00 -
[364] - Quote
Prove it. How can they not be informed in spite of the multi-prong media blitz?
And no, choosing not to bother to read up is not to be uninformed GÇö it's choosing not to care and not to be represented. They have been informed, and the result is an abstain vote in absentia. They get exactly the representation they wish for. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
696
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:07:00 -
[365] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:There is no proof that they have been informed or that they have chosen not to vote Except they're informed every time they check a myriad of forums, every time they log in, and every time they read a ton of various gaming sites. They have to literally work at not being informed. Yes they are inundated with stuff with the new launcher but people probably pay as much attention to that as the blizzard or sims 3 launcher...bugger all. As to the rest maybe they don't read those sites or maybe the reporting is so god damn awful you don't want to read it.
Either way around the only way to know if they are educated is to educate them.
Frying Doom wrote:As I have said before with only 1/3 of 1% needed to win a seat more needs to be done to educate the voters as to the role and importance of the CSM. They are already as educated as they want to be.[/quote] Apparently not or more than 16.63% would actually be voting if they knew what the CSM was for.
I think the figures speak for them selves. You cannot claim they are educated with such a poor turn out. Its not like it is a local government election this is important Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9313
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:09:00 -
[366] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Yes they are inundated with stuff with the new launcher but people probably pay as much attention to that as the blizzard or sims 3 launcher...bugger all. GǪand if that's their choice, then guess what: they've chosen not to vote. It's that simple.
Quote:I think the figures speak for them selves. Yes. Most people don't care enough to vote. Oh, and you'll notice that CSM7 have a larger turnout than some of the U.S. primaries, so yes, people care more about this than real politics. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
696
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:12:00 -
[367] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Prove it. How can they not be informed in spite of the multi-prong media blitz? And no, choosing not to bother to read up is not to be uninformed GÇö it's choosing not to care and not to be represented. They have been informed, and the result is an abstain vote in absentia. They get exactly the representation they wish for. If they log in during voting month, they have been informed. If they choose not to vote, then that's their choice. There's really no two ways about it. The media blitz as you call it was a couple of banners and a little sign. Oh and the banners were once off by memory.
One talked about voting for getting rid of incursions or some rubbish and the other was to vote for the council of stellar management, what ever that might be, considering it gave no indication of it function.
As I have said making sure they are educated hurts no one but small interest groups, while educating them leads to a more representative CSM. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
697
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:14:00 -
[368] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Yes they are inundated with stuff with the new launcher but people probably pay as much attention to that as the blizzard or sims 3 launcher...bugger all. GǪand if that's their choice, then guess what: they've chosen not to vote. It's that simple. Quote:I think the figures speak for them selves. Yes. Most people don't care enough to vote. Oh, and you'll notice that CSM7 have a larger turnout than some of the U.S. primaries, so yes, people care more about this than real politics. I have no real idea about US politics other than there is an elephant involved
I know some things but not enough to talk about your election or primaries. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Lord Zim
1230
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:19:00 -
[369] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:As I have said making sure they are educated hurts no one but small interest groups, while educating them leads to a more representative CSM. They are as educated as they care to be. Expending more time and energy to try to educate them further will yield absolutely nothing. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
697
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:22:00 -
[370] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:As I have said making sure they are educated hurts no one but small interest groups, while educating them leads to a more representative CSM. They are as educated as they care to be. Expending more time and energy to try to educate them further will yield absolutely nothing. Actually in last years elections, I had quite a few people ask me what the CSM was or they told me it was a Null sec thing.
So no there are those who are not educated and the education of the 80% will at least yield a guarantee that they have been educated. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9313
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:24:00 -
[371] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:The media blitz as you call it was a couple of banners and a little sign. GǪthat got repeated on numerous occasions, on top of local lighting up with it, on top of every eve-related media outlet talking about it. If you actually have any interest in EVE whatsoever, you hear about it. Again, they have been informed; they just don't care, much like with real-life elections. Frankly, the turn-out is surprisingly big as it is GÇö conventional wisdom puts player engagement of this kind at somewhere in the region of 5GÇô10%.
Quote:As I have said making sure they are educated hurts no one but small interest groups, while educating them leads to a more representative CSM. You cannot force people to GÇ£educateGÇ¥ themselves about something they do not care about, and you have yet to show that the representation is problematic, either in the issues being brought up or in that it doesn't represent the population.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Lord Zim
1230
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:32:00 -
[372] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Actually in last years elections, I had quite a few people ask me what the CSM was http://lmgtfy.com/?q=eve+online+CSM
Frying Doom wrote:or they told me it was a Null sec thing. Ah, yes, the people who will just claim you're a nullsec alt if you try to tell them it isn't. Again, willful ignorance.
Frying Doom wrote:So no there are those who are not educated and the education of the 80% will at least yield a guarantee that they have been educated. They have been educated right now. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
698
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:33:00 -
[373] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Quote:As I have said making sure they are educated hurts no one but small interest groups, while educating them leads to a more representative CSM. You cannot force people to GÇ£educateGÇ¥ themselves about something they do not care about, and you have yet to show that the representation is problematic, either in the issues being brought up or in that it doesn't represent the population. No but you can force them to actively abstain. Like I have said if you give them a nice blurb with a note on the bottom
*Note: CSM Candidates are permitted to scam you out of your vote, if a player is offering you a plex or isk for your vote chances are you are being scammed.
Something like that.
Then that way they have actively chosen not to vote rather than passively. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9314
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:35:00 -
[374] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:No but you can force them to actively abstain. Annoying people only ever leads to more of them skipping it, so that won't do the numbers much goodGǪ
GǪand it doesn't address the supposed issue of representation in the slightest.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
698
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:38:00 -
[375] - Quote
That was nice maybe you can do something like that up for the peasants.
Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:or they told me it was a Null sec thing. Ah, yes, the people who will just claim you're a nullsec alt if you try to tell them it isn't. Again, willful ignorance. Again attempt to educate, failing that call them peasants and ignore them. But always educate the first.
Lord Zim wrote: They have been educated right now.
They might have been educated there is currently no guarantee of that. So we educate them all. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Lord Zim
1231
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:38:00 -
[376] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:No but you can force them to actively abstain. Which means you'll have to spend coder time making the mechanic, you'll annoy people more, and end up with exactly the same result, because the people who didn't vote, didn't care. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9314
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:40:00 -
[377] - Quote
GǪand regardless, the fundamental question remains: what's the problem with the current representation? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
698
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:40:00 -
[378] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Frying Doom wrote:No but you can force them to actively abstain. Annoying people only ever leads to more of them skipping it, so that won't do the numbers much goodGǪ GǪand it doesn't address the supposed issue of representation in the slightest. It increases their education as to the role of the CSM if they choose not to read it there is nothing that can be done for them and may BoB have mercy on their souls.
As to Annoying them it would be about 1 minute in a year so not a huge loss of time. Actually i cannot think of anything that only costs me 1 minute in a year. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Lord Zim
1231
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:40:00 -
[379] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:That was nice maybe you can do something like that up for the peasants. It's already there, there's nothing to be done.
Frying Doom wrote:Again attempt to educate, failing that call them peasants and ignore them. But always educate the first. They have been.
Frying Doom wrote:They might have been educated there is currently no guarantee of that. So we educate them all. They have been. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
698
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:42:00 -
[380] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪand regardless, the fundamental question remains: what's the problem with the current representation? It is not representative, it cannot be given such a small percentage of voters and when a 3% block is considered the largest power block or that you only need 1/3 of 1% of the populous to get someone on the CSM.
That really does not sound representative to me. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9314
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:43:00 -
[381] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:It increases their education as to the role of the CSM No. If they were interested in it, they'd know it already. If they aren't now, they'll just skip it and click whatever button gets rid of the spam the quickest.
Quote:As to Annoying them it would be about 1 minute in a year so not a huge loss of time. The time loss isn't relevant. What matters is that you're pestering them with popups about things they don't care about rather than give them the choice to actively seek it out.
Quote:It is not representative In what way, and how does it matter? The number of voters don't really matter (if nothing else then because of statistical sampling) GÇö what matters is whether the players' issues are on the agenda. Can you provide an example of something that's missing?
Quote:That really does not sound representative to me. So what? Can you show that it doesn't represent the players?
Again, what's the problem with the current representation? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
699
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:43:00 -
[382] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:That was nice maybe you can do something like that up for the peasants. It's already there, there's nothing to be done. Frying Doom wrote:Again attempt to educate, failing that call them peasants and ignore them. But always educate the first. They have been. Frying Doom wrote:They might have been educated there is currently no guarantee of that. So we educate them all. They have been. without pulling it apart. They probably have not seen that. They only might have been. They only might have been. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
699
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:47:00 -
[383] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Frying Doom wrote:It increases their education as to the role of the CSM No. If they were interested in it, they'd know it already. If they aren't now, they'll just skip it and click whatever button gets rid of the spam the quickest. That is a possibility but not a certainty, I believe you would find more people would vote as to how many more, who knows.
Tippia wrote:Quote:As to Annoying them it would be about 1 minute in a year so not a huge loss of time. The time loss isn't relevant. What matters is that you're pestering them with popups about things they don't care about rather than give them the choice to actively seek it out. Educating them rather than allowing them to live in ignorance is always a good thing. and not pop ups, a pop-up. And as neither I nor you are them, how do we know this would pester them. You can only guess as you can only guess as to whether they are currently educated as to what the CSM does. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Lord Zim
1231
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:49:00 -
[384] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:without pulling it apart. They probably have not seen that. Sucks to be them, they have literally everything they need at their fingertips, and they're not want for notification, either.
Frying Doom wrote:They only might have been. They only might have been. No, they have been.
And your suggestion of having an abstain button at login will only mean CCP gets abstains from the same people who are choosing not to vote now. Nothing will change, they'll have wasted programmer time creating a mechanic which makes absolutely no impact beyond irritating people.
Great job. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9314
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:52:00 -
[385] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:That is a possibility but not a certainty, I believe you would find more people would vote as to how many more, who knows. That is a possibility but not a certainty. Why is your uncertainty better, especially when there's nothing to suggest that it will change anything.
Quote:Educating them rather than allowing them to live in ignorance is always a good thing. GǪand they're not going to be educated by a popup about something they already don't care about GÇö years of internet usage has primed EVE players to be very quick on the GÇ£get this crap out of my wayGÇ¥-button.
What's wrong with the current representation that makes all this effort to annoy people is worth it? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
699
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:54:00 -
[386] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote: And your suggestion of having an abstain button at login will only mean CCP gets abstains from the same people who are choosing not to vote now. Nothing will change, they'll have wasted programmer time creating a mechanic which makes absolutely no impact beyond irritating people.
Great job.
The programmer time to do that would be in C less than an hour so bugger all, as to the abstains, we would at least then have real numbers and know that everyone was educated and as I said some of them would actually vote.
Educating the Populous is very cheap, allowing minorities to control the CSM could be very expensive.
Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Jonah Gravenstein
1067
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:55:00 -
[387] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Tippia wrote:GǪand regardless, the fundamental question remains: what's the problem with the current representation? It is not representative, it cannot be given such a small percentage of voters and when a 3% block is considered the largest power block or that you only need 1/3 of 1% of the populous to get someone on the CSM. That really does not sound representative to me.
Welcome to politics, that would be sufficient to get you elected in many countries so why not a game. War hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. CCP can't patch stupidity. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9314
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:57:00 -
[388] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:as to the abstains, we would at least then have real numbers and know that everyone was educated No, we really wouldn't.
If you dismiss the level of education they have at the moment, then the level they'd have after your scheme would be dismissible for the same reasons. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
700
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:58:00 -
[389] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Frying Doom wrote:That is a possibility but not a certainty, I believe you would find more people would vote as to how many more, who knows. That is a possibility but not a certainty. Why is your uncertainty better, especially when there's nothing to suggest that it will change anything. Quote:Educating them rather than allowing them to live in ignorance is always a good thing. GǪand they're not going to be educated by a popup about something they already don't care about GÇö years of internet usage has primed EVE players to be very quick on the GÇ£get this crap out of my wayGÇ¥-button. What's wrong with the current representation that makes all this effort to annoy people is worth it? My uncertainty is not better but if you believed all of the people currently not voting through apathy would not vote then I believe you are being naive.
Yes but should this button occur somewhere and only appear there once in a year it is an unusual occurrence and I believe it would pull a number of people up.
Yes we are constantly surrounded by ads, pop-ups and other crap. We are all at saturation level and subsequently paying less attention as things become common place. That is why I want to do it in a place and a way we have not programmed ourselves to do it. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Lord Zim
1231
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Posted - 2012.09.02 13:00:00 -
[390] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:The programmer time to do that would be in C less than an hour so bugger all And then there's proper QA, the art department will have to be pulled in (you don't want to make punkturis sad by adding a new thing to EVE with a ****** UI, now would you? She might have to make sad puppy eyes again.)
Frying Doom wrote:Educating the Populous is very cheap, allowing minorities to control the CSM could be very expensive. So let's sum up what information players have to ignore to remain completely uninformed of the CSM
1) Banner on the login screen 2) Media blitz everywhere 3) Evemails from trebors 4) Forum posts everywhere 5) Email from CCP 6) Local spam everywhere.
What kind of person are you saying CCP has to expend a ton of additional time, money and energy into reaching, which isn't reached already? |
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