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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Easthir Ravin
Easy Co. Fatal Ascension
61
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Posted - 2012.09.03 05:18:00 -
[451] - Quote
Jaques Cousteau Gemulus wrote:Anslo wrote:I do agree with his signature though...
EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... Cant argue with that.....
Actually you can... argue with your vote next time. All that those percentages show is that organization wins over chaos.
IN THE IMORTAL WORDS OF SOCRATES: -á" I drank WHAT?!" |
Orzo Torasson
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
60
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Posted - 2012.09.03 07:04:00 -
[452] - Quote
Platforms that nullsec CSM candidates run on:
-Tech rebalance -Supercapital Rebalancing -Fix Player Owned Stations
Platforms that highsec CSM candidates run on
-How can we make miners invincible? -No, like, even more invincible -More clothes in the NEX store -How can we make boobs bigger in the character creator?
I don't know about you guys, but I am very happy we're in charge. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
321
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Posted - 2012.09.03 07:10:00 -
[453] - Quote
Orzo Torasson wrote:Platforms that nullsec CSM candidates run on:
BLAH BLAH BLAH...
Platforms that highsec CSM candidates run on
-How can we make boobs bigger in the character creator?
I don't know about you guys, but I am very happy we're in charge.
nOT ME I say bring in bigger NULL SEC BOOBs like yourself so we in HI can laugh more and refuse to let NULL become my beneveloent tyrant! VOTE NULL'S BIGGER BUMS OUT WE NEED MORE HI SEC BOOBS I perfer Eve more TOP heavy then bottom hheavy =========================================================
EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
715
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Posted - 2012.09.03 08:34:00 -
[454] - Quote
betoli wrote:So perhaps there are better questions to ask.
If the players (lets assume) are educated as much as possible.... but the player base is still not represented properly.
Should we have a CSM at all, if it presents a biased and unrepresentative view? Is the CSM actually less effective because CCP know that its unrepresentative of the people who actually pay their bills? If the CSM know that they badly represent HS, newer players etc - as they must as they can see the stats - why do they not appoint representatives of those communities? Such an appointee would obviously not be on the CSM itself, but would be a visible go-to person for people of that demographic. Surely this would be better than pretending to know and care about aspects of the game that they don't participate in. As others have raised the 'election model', perhaps people should stand for posts rather than to be a part of the hegemony? Should we have a indy rep, a pvp rep, a HS rep, a LS rep, etc? Players can then see how well CSM members represent the cause they are supposed to, as well as see whether candidates are likely to represent that cause (Vote James315 for mining minister!!!!).
The CSM does appoint people to cover the various subjects, but appointing someone who does not do a specific thing in the game means that even though they know the mechanics of that part of the game they will not have the passion for it as Hans Jagerblitzen has shown over the last 18 months or more with his love of Faction Warfare. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
715
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Posted - 2012.09.03 08:37:00 -
[455] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Frying Doom wrote:How can it possibly be representative of the players when so many of the players are not represented Because location is not representation. Issues being brought to CCP's attention is representation. Are any issues left by the wayside? This has nothing to do with location as how can we know what a particular person wants or does not want if they do not speak up either on these forums or via voting. As to have any issues been left by the wayside again you or I have no clue we are not these people, so we have no idea their wants or gripes.
Tippia wrote:Quote:The players need further education Unlikely given the massive response rate the election have already. Very likely given what I experienced in the last CSM election and the posts that have appeared on these forums. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
715
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Posted - 2012.09.03 08:40:00 -
[456] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:You sound like a school teacher, we tried to educate them, but it didn't work so we gave up. CCP are covering literally all angles they can of making sure people know what the **** the CSM is, and why it should be in their interest to vote. I've seen absolutely no suggestion from you which would have any effect whatsoever over and beyond what CCP are already doing. Frying Doom wrote:As I have said over and over, trying to educate the masses does no harm to anyone but small interest groups. Yes, you keep saying "educate the masses", and we keep telling you that CCP have done virtually everything they can do, short of getting someone to punch them in the face repeatedly until they say "I understand what the CSM is". And there's something to be said for realizing when you're beating your head against an impenetrable wall of willful ignorance. You're advocating getting a headache. I agree they have done a lot of it and it needs to be done again this year and every year as there are always new players and CCP and the CSM should always be looking to involve more people into the CSM elections every year. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
715
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Posted - 2012.09.03 08:40:00 -
[457] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Why do you assume the CSM has a "biased view"? I personally do not but they can not have anything more than a minority view while only the minority is involved. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
715
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Posted - 2012.09.03 08:46:00 -
[458] - Quote
betoli wrote:
Stop meta-debating. If you have no opinion STFU. I only asked questions, I did not make any assumptions or claims as to whether answering yes to any of them would help. I don't know whether its your intention or not, but your manner on these boards appears to suggest you want to stifle discussion, not participate in it or add meaningful contribution.
One can not stop nor should they try for Lord Zim to express his views, he is an active member of one of the minorities involved with the CSM and like all minorities when their power is threatened they will accuse those that are trying to minimalize them of not caring, that they are racist, sexist etc just to hold on to that power.
I must congratulate Lord Zim for not having stooped to these levels as he is sticking to the "they are educated track", I may not agree with his view but it is better than the actions of a lot of the minorities who have sunk so low in their thirst for power.
That and this is a game, so there are not millions of dollars riding on this. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9329
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Posted - 2012.09.03 08:51:00 -
[459] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:This has nothing to do with location as how can we know what a particular person wants or does not want if they do not speak up either on these forums or via voting. GǪand again, the funny thing is that far more people are speaking up around here than pretty much anywhere else in the world of games. The general rule of thumb is that ~10% occasionally visit a forum for a game (not necessarily the official one and not necessarily to post) and that ~1% of the players are active on the official forums. 16.6% is a huge turnout and it means that those who have an interest in being heard are being heard GÇö the representation is there already.
Oh, and location most certainly has something to do with it since this supposed (but not actual) lack of representation is always painted in the light of GÇ£null is represented; highsec is notGÇ¥.
Quote:Very likely given what I experienced in the last CSM election and the posts that have appeared on these forums. You mean the ones that indicate that people aren't interested in knowing more, because if they were, they would know?
Quote:I personally do not but they can not have anything more than a minority view while only the minority is involved. Statistics don't agree with you.
Quote:I agree they have done a lot of it and it needs to be done again this year and every year as there are always new players and CCP and the CSM should always be looking to involve more people into the CSM elections every year. You mean, exactly what they've been doing it since day 1? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
715
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Posted - 2012.09.03 08:51:00 -
[460] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Why do people think High sec is a demographic.
Where a person lives in EVE matters little. What matters is what they care about.
I live in high sec space at this time. However, I don't care about missions, mining, incursions, trading, wars, industry. I care about being able to sit at stations and watch people blow each other up. I enjoy doing that for hours (on the other hand, I don't enjoy the lack of pew pew ever since dec evasions were deemed not an exploit, hasn't been the same). Would I be represented by what is usually meant by a HS rep? No.
When you all talk about representation, you should not be talking about location. Location means jack. Its what you do that needs representation, not where you chose to be.
Sorry all, had to get that off my chest. It is not so much as Hi-sec people are a demographic but as to how CCP allocate resources for those areas, they are grouped in their thinking and all though I might for example like to see war decs fixed so they do not suck so badly as a priority, others like Lord Zim might like to have the ridiculously stupid Sovereignty system in Null sec fixed.
There are only so many developers to work on so many problems at the same time, like the POS fix is waiting for the crime watch fix as the same team is doing both.
So we talk about locations as a means to say where we think resources should go, that and its fun to tease the Nullbears.
But as I have said if you care about "However, I don't care about missions, mining, incursions, trading, wars, industry. I care about being able to sit at stations and watch people blow each other up." then maybe you should run for the CSM as the Voyeur party and get video capture built into eve as your priority. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
715
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Posted - 2012.09.03 08:53:00 -
[461] - Quote
Abel Merkabah wrote:When does CSM voting start? Did I miss it? the voting should start in around Febuary next year with the Candidate application process.
The white paper however telling us how these elections will be held is due out in December. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
715
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Posted - 2012.09.03 09:49:00 -
[462] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪand again, the funny thing is that far more people are speaking up around here than pretty much anywhere else in the world of games. The general rule of thumb is that ~10% occasionally visit a forum for a game (not necessarily the official one and not necessarily to post) and that ~1% of the players are active on the official forums. 16.6% is a huge turnout and it means that those who have an interest in being heard are being heard GÇö the representation is there already. So because we have a good amount of people involved, we should not want more, oh and do these games have player elected councils?
Tippia wrote:You mean the ones that indicate that people aren't interested in knowing more, because if they were, they would know? Nice blanket statement, they have always done so well in the world.
Statistics don't agree with you.[/quote] You mean like the statistic that in the CSM 7 Election only 16.63% of the accounts voted, no seems like the statistics are saying that only a minority voted.
Tippia wrote:Quote:I agree they have done a lot of it and it needs to be done again this year and every year as there are always new players and CCP and the CSM should always be looking to involve more people into the CSM elections every year. You mean, exactly what they've been doing it since day 1? No obviously I mean better or I wouldn't have said it. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Lord Zim
1243
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Posted - 2012.09.03 10:51:00 -
[463] - Quote
betoli wrote:I would think you should be able to stand for whatever aspect you want - it would be up to the electorate to make their minds up whether you were the best person to represent :insert gameplay choice:. If I were voting, I would assume a jack of all trades was less desirable than someone who has all their eggs in the same metaphoric basket - but thats purely personal opinion. A jack of all trades tends to have a better understanding of the bigger picture than someone who's focusing on one single aspect of whatever, and if he's active in more than just one area of the game then he has an even bigger chance of being a better asset to "the CSM" than if he were someone who did nothing but make spreadsheets about his BPOs, setup vast production spreadsheets detailing input material requirements, cost, profitability, maintain multiple alts in multiple trading hubs, and min/max that as much as possible.
In EVE, while someone might be called "an industrialist", and as such would love nothing better than if CCP were to buff all the things he uses, be that BPO copying, invention, manufacturing, hauling, etc, to make his part of the game better, that really doesn't mean he should be elected to be "the industrialist representative". Why? Because people who call themselves industrialists are most commonly hisec only. As such, I would expect a lot of them to have a penchant for bringing up minute UI details which could make their day to day living easier, while being blindingly oblivious to a much larger sucking chest wound which is the fact that nullsec industry is more or less limited to 2 things. 1) Import everything from hisec, 2) build supercaps. The rest is easier, cheaper, quicker and by far the least effort to do in hisec (and lowsec for normal caps), and means that nullsec is depopulated most of the time outside of actual fleet fights. This, in turn, means that roaming gangs have a very, very hard time actually catching someone, because they'll be less than 5 pr system (iirc most of the systems I've flown through lately outside of fleet ops have had 1-2 in them, total).
The same goes for things such as L4s, which set the reward bar so high that a lot of people don't find the effort of receiving the rewards which nullsec anoms can yield worth it, and as such also help depopulate nullsec even further. I don't expect anyone representing "mission runners" to do anything other than choke on his coffee if anyone even contemplates uttering the words "nerf" and "L4" in the same sentence (except if it's prefixed with "don't"), even though it very well could've been a benefit for the game as a whole.
betoli wrote:But OK. Your earlier question: We are striving for improved representation of demographics: I believe that creating specific role posts would encourage voters to think about whether a candidate really represented that position. I think that because I believe the majority of players don't meta-game. There would be nothing to stop a null sec player standing for office as a high sec rep, however if they did, and won it, it would highlight (both to the player base and to CCP) that the CSM system was flawed in the way that's been discussed ad-nausium in this thread. Therefore if the representational model is flawed, then under this model, it would become transparently, embarrassingly, and indefensibly, obvious beyond debate. That would be so undesirable that I suspect no one would try it on, and there would be a lot of pressure from everyone (CCP, other CSMers, and players alike) to maintain the credibility of the institution.
Assuming that were the case, then representational balance is acheived by CCP specifying the number of posts in a proffesion domain according to their understanding of the player distribution - that doesn't need to be (and couldn't be) perfect it just needs to improve on the current **** poor distribution of representation:demographic. You keep harping on and on about "representational balance", and thus I ask you this: what's broken in hisec which needs fixing, apart from wardecs/crimewatch? What's broken in lowsec which needs fixing, apart from FW farmville? What's broken in nullsec which needs fixing, apart from the SOV system? What's broken wrt missions which require fixing? What's broken wrt industry which needs fixing?
How much representation does the things which are broken in these areas of the game actually need? How much are they getting today? How much time should CCP dedicate to each of these broken things, and in what order? |
serras bang
Lucien Coven
13
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Posted - 2012.09.03 11:15:00 -
[464] - Quote
Orzo Torasson wrote:Platforms that nullsec CSM candidates run on:
-Tech rebalance -Supercapital Rebalancing -Fix Player Owned Stations
Platforms that highsec CSM candidates run on
-How can we make miners invincible? -No, like, even more invincible -More clothes in the NEX store -How can we make boobs bigger in the character creator?
I don't know about you guys, but I am very happy we're in charge.
rofl i have a lot more to go in fighting with than trivial matters such as that. miners shouldnt be invinsible noone should not even in high sec but hi sec players should have the chance to actively defend themselves not react to being attack.
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Ghazu
98
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Posted - 2012.09.03 11:21:00 -
[465] - Quote
ugh zug wrote:with any representation system comes the inherent risk of your elected to turn around and do what they want not what their voters want, and regardless of where they came from they can always be turned into someones pet, everyone has a price.
high sec CAN have representation, is just that we don't want it enough, reason why nullsec members get elected is because they have an alliance behind them 9/10 or scam votes from people by misrepresentation and misinformation....
here's how to have high sec representation,
Step one create a high sec party. Step two advertise for membership. Step three poll members for what high sec needs. Step four educate members on CSM elections. Step five hold party elections. Step six have members vote for party sanctioned member(s) in CSM election. Step seven pray your elected candidate is not swayed by isk bids from null entities. That's what issler dainze tried to do, did it fizzle out? |
Solstice Project
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1729
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Posted - 2012.09.03 11:22:00 -
[466] - Quote
Quote:-How can we make boobs bigger in the character creator? I really don't see the issue with that point.
Quote:but hi sec players should have the chance to actively defend themselves not react to being attack. What ? How is "reacting to being attacked" not "actively defending" ?
This ain't the US, who "defend" themselves by attacking first. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
834
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Posted - 2012.09.03 11:33:00 -
[467] - Quote
@Op.
What is it about representing this or that sector of Space that has you worried ? Do you fly only in Highsec or do you mix it all up with the different regions df space in Eve ? Those stats you have as a signature are quite meaningless and out of context.
I have no fixed "home" in any single type of space. I fly Highsec, Lowsec, Nullsec, WH's. I cannot believe that I am the only player that does this. I go where the fun and action is, not by the security level or earning potential is for any given sector of space. Again, I cannot be the only pilot who has this style.
I voted in the latest CSM and am happy to say I voted for Hans. You do not have to be a resident of any particular place in space to determine for yourself, who can do the best for the entire space of Eve.
I would however go as far to say that the residents of Nullsec have far more interest in the game than purely highsec players. The voting, or lack thereof, is proof by purely highsec dwellers.
Eve is huge, go explore. Why make any specific area a fixed place for yourself ?
Next time, cast a CSM vote. Join a decent Corporation that is not focused on Highsec only, or Nullsec only. Do the latter and you end-up throwing stones. That's something that people in glass houses should not do.
o7
The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
163
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Posted - 2012.09.03 11:37:00 -
[468] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Anslo wrote:I do agree with his signature though...
EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... Why would we value peoples opinions on EVE if they don't care enough to vote?
Its probably to do with null sec alliance power bloc voting as apposed to high sec individual votes.
Tal
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
Din Chao
Seraphim Initiative
80
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Posted - 2012.09.03 12:12:00 -
[469] - Quote
Rats wrote:baltec1 wrote:Anslo wrote:I do agree with his signature though...
EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... Why would we value peoples opinions on EVE if they don't care enough to vote? Its probably to do with null sec alliance power bloc voting as apposed to high sec individual votes. Tal Oh, you mean like how all my friends tell me that not voting means my voice isn't heard, meanwhile the only possible outcome is between two virtually identical parties/candidates? What's that like? ;) |
William Walker
House Aratus Fatal Ascension
40
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Posted - 2012.09.03 12:15:00 -
[470] - Quote
For highsec how about having a few people from each FW race step forward and then they choose amongst those people a select few that will represent them. Otherwise I see no possibility for unison within highsec. |
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Sabrina Solette
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
81
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Posted - 2012.09.03 12:19:00 -
[471] - Quote
Thorn Galen wrote:
I would however go as far to say that the residents of Nullsec have far more interest in the game than purely highsec players. The voting, or lack thereof, is proof by purely highsec dwellers.
What a load of old cobblers. |
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
838
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Posted - 2012.09.03 12:33:00 -
[472] - Quote
Sabrina Solette wrote:Thorn Galen wrote:
I would however go as far to say that the residents of Nullsec have far more interest in the game than purely highsec players. The voting, or lack thereof, is proof by purely highsec dwellers.
What a load of old cobblers.
I agree.
The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
605
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Posted - 2012.09.03 12:46:00 -
[473] - Quote
This just in: nullsec players aren't allowed to have individual opinions. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
723
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Posted - 2012.09.03 12:48:00 -
[474] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:This just in: nullsec players aren't allowed to have individual opinions. Shocking!!
Umm quick question did they used to? Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
605
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Posted - 2012.09.03 12:50:00 -
[475] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:This just in: nullsec players aren't allowed to have individual opinions. Shocking!! Umm quick question did they used to? No. Those of us who live on the outer edges of the galaxy hear Sansha Kuvakei in our sleep. He tells us who to vote for in the CSM elections. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
723
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Posted - 2012.09.03 12:52:00 -
[476] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Frying Doom wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:This just in: nullsec players aren't allowed to have individual opinions. Shocking!! Umm quick question did they used to? No. Those of us who live on the outer edges of the galaxy hear Sansha Kuvakei in our sleep. He tells us who to vote for in the CSM elections. Atta boy, keep that rumor going. Personally I thought that was one of my better ones Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
165
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Posted - 2012.09.03 13:13:00 -
[477] - Quote
The CSM is represented by the majority opinion. That is a fact. If the majority opinion was "carebear oriented" the majority of the CSM would be "carebear" represented.
The simple truth is that the majority of Eve players want to fly around in space ships and blow each other up. The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub.-á |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
723
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Posted - 2012.09.03 13:18:00 -
[478] - Quote
Kryss Darkdust wrote:The CSM is represented by the majority opinion. That is a fact. If the majority opinion was "carebear oriented" the majority of the CSM would be "carebear" represented.
The simple truth is that the majority of Eve players want to fly around in space ships and blow each other up. I love the use of the word fact.
As we have no data on the majority of EvE players only the minority, the word fact might be a bit strong here. The simple truth is ship get blown up in eve, people make ships in eve and some others buy and sell stuff, not to mention the people who mine gas for drugs, PI for POSs and all the things go on in EvE.
It is rather strange to say the Majority, when the majority do not use the forums, vote or do anything external to the game we can easily find. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9332
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Posted - 2012.09.03 13:20:00 -
[479] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:So because we have a good amount of people involved, we should not want more, oh and do these games have player elected councils? Eh, no. Because we have a good amount of people involved, we obviously have very effective campaigns in place to involve players who want to be involved. Pointing to the rest as some kind of failure to engage is plain dishonest.
Quote:Nice blanket statement, they have always done so well in the world. Then maybe you should stop employing themGǪ
Quote:You mean like the statistic that in the CSM 7 Election only 16.63% of the accounts voted, no seems like the statistics are saying that only a minority voted. No, the statistical theory that shows that as small a sample as 1GǦ can correctly reflect the thoughts and opinions of the population at large.
Quote:No obviously I mean better or I wouldn't have said it. The problem is that your ideas for GÇ£betterGÇ¥ all seem to fall into the category of things that people filter out automatically these days, whereas what they've been doing has so far produced almost unparalleled engagement. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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serras bang
Lucien Coven
14
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Posted - 2012.09.03 13:24:00 -
[480] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Quote:-How can we make boobs bigger in the character creator? I really don't see the issue with that point. Quote:but hi sec players should have the chance to actively defend themselves not react to being attack. What ? How is "reacting to being attacked" not "actively defending" ? This ain't the US, who "defend" themselves by attacking first.
as it stands now within hi sec we cannot defend ourselves without being attacked first or we will get concorded witch posses a problem for a multi billion isk ship.
active and reactive are 2 different things if it was active we would be able to attack without recourse those deamed as outlaws and pirates by sec status. but we cant so we now have to be reduced to being reactive and usualy the first volley from a ganker is the most devestating. |
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