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Levi Devereaux
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Posted - 2011.04.13 18:33:00 -
[1]
I'm letting EVERYONE know that there is a bug / hack that players out there use to totally screw you over on the market in Jita and I really don't know how its works. I truly hope that CCP looks into this as it cost me a severe amount of ISK since I am rather inactive and have a low sp char.
Upon using Eve-Central route finder to find a route between Heimatar and the forge, I noticed that 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT had a buyer in jita for 6 mil isk a unit (severely overpriced in comparison to the rest of the eve galaxy), the catch was is that they wanted 1100 min volume. I ALSO noticed that there were 2 sell orders for the 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT at 2mil and 5mil at just under the volume required for the buy order listed above. Knowing this was possibly too good to be true, I decided to take a gamble and plunge head first in an attempt to acquire 1100 units. Knowing that this was probably some trick of sorts for the buyer to make money by people buying the sell orders and then removing the buy order right away, I scanned eve central and located several other places outside of the forge to purchase 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT fairly cheap.
After traveling to 16 different markets, I had actually acquired 1106 units of 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT and then made my way to Jita. During this entire process I had a small little alt of mine in Jita on my laptop (I mainly play on my desktop) constantly checking the market to see if the buy order changed at all. It remained exactly the same during the hour and a half it took me to travel to all of these systems and purchase the goods.
I arrived in Jita, WAS NOT SCANNED at all by anyone (complete shock), docked at Jita IV - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant, moved all 1106 united of 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT to my hanger. I then checked the market price AGAIN to ensure that the buy order was still up. It was STILL THERE. I immediately right clicked on the 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT and clicked the "sell this item" button. The sell window came up and the asking price was ALREADY listed at the highest sell price I could get which was 6,000,000 isk a piece. I then changed my quantity from 1106 to 1100 and clicked the sell button. I immediately checked my wallet and saw that it was at 7.18 mil. I did a double take at it, then clicked under transactions and then under journal and noticed that I was hit for a 57.4 mil broker fee. I checked market orders that exact second and noticed I had a sell order of 1100 units of 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT at 6mil a piece and that the original buy order had completely disappeared.
Something is EXTREMELY fishy about this transaction. I find it utterly absurd that during the entire hour and a half it took me to get the goods that the order did not disappear but the EXACT second I do sell, the order immediately disappears, I get hit for a 57.4mil broker fee, and now have 1100 units in Jita for sale. FML
Has something like this happened to other people? Am I getting screwed by some mythical part of Eve that I am completely ignorant of? Is there a way for me to submit this to CCP to look into this? I've pretty much already written this off as a massive loss on my part but would really like them to look into this to stop whoever is doing this.
Thank you, I'm going to inhale about half a bottle of tequila. Any feedback is appreciated.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.04.13 18:35:00 -
[2]
Working as planned - you just got scammed. ------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Irani Firecam
Gallente Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2011.04.13 18:36:00 -
[3]
So you initialised a sell order instead of actually selling the item.
My Wallpaper |
Golanik
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Posted - 2011.04.13 18:36:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Golanik on 13/04/2011 18:39:28 The rare but deliciously tear-inducing "self-scam."
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Yuki Kulotsuki
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Posted - 2011.04.13 18:40:00 -
[5]
Old news is old. This has been well-known for several months. I think it even ran as a news item at one point. Also :walloftext: -- Did you know there's an alliance who's name you're not allowed to say, or website you're not allowed to link? |
Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar Solar Nexus. -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.04.13 18:40:00 -
[6]
I sense a troll.. However
You changed the amount which then caused you to create a sell order instead of selling to a buy order. Like it would have even mattered since the person who had the order originally was using the margin trading scam.
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Levi Devereaux
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Posted - 2011.04.13 18:40:00 -
[7]
I didn't initiate a sell order, the second you sell an item, the sell window pops up. You still have to click the sell button on it. I see absolutely no way how I got scammed outside of a third party program. Its not possible by a human to take a buy order off the market the exact second someone sells it if the buyer already has a buy order place. Completely impossible. The person does not have a camera in my house looking at my screen o.O
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Xercodo
Amarr Daj'Juntar
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Posted - 2011.04.13 18:42:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Xercodo on 13/04/2011 18:46:54 Sounds like a combo of you using the advanced sell window and them using the margin trading skill
The advanced sell order detected the buyers order and tried to fill it but because of margin trading it failed and automatically put it up as a sell order instead.
The advanced sell order window has also caused confusion on another variation...
If there is a buy order for 100 units and then the next buy order is for 1000 and u have 900 to sell, if you have the basic sell window up you will sell the first 100 to the first order and the other 800 goes back into your hanger. You attempt to sell again and this time get filled by the second order.
BUT, if you use the advanced sell window it will sell the first 100 automatically to order #1 and attempt to sell the other 800 at th same price, but finding no acceptable order your 800 other items get put up as a sell order.
Edit: Seeing the other posts above, I'm inclined to agree that not only did you get boned by the original scam but also got self scammed by the advanced trade window.
Also even tho you did a simple right-click-> sell, you can still have the advanced window open. It was a ninja change that the last type of window you used is opened the next time. And this has been tested, when a friend and I confirmed the case i described above as his items were being put up in sell orders and mine never were.
-------------------------------------------------- The drake is a lie
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Yuki Kulotsuki
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Posted - 2011.04.13 18:43:00 -
[9]
Have market order open and ready to cancel. Wait for wallet blink. ???? Profit. -- Did you know there's an alliance who's name you're not allowed to say, or website you're not allowed to link? |
Myra2007
Millstone Industries
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Posted - 2011.04.13 18:44:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Myra2007 on 13/04/2011 18:45:41 Look for threads with the keywords "scam" and "margin trading" to understand how buyorders can simply vanish the moment you try to complete them.
Also when you tried to sell you probably forgot to make it 'immediate'. If you don't make it immideate and there aren't enough buyorders to sell everything at the asking price then it will go as a sell order into the market. And that costs broker fee. Well that's at least how I think it works.
So I think yes you basically didn't know all the game mechanics involved. That's my guess anyway. --
Originally by: CCP Elais
It was a great Frankenstein moment [...] to see the forum [...] come alive.
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Golanik
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Posted - 2011.04.13 18:45:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Levi Devereaux Knowing this was possibly too good to be true, I decided to take a gamble...
Next time trust your gut.
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.13 18:45:00 -
[12]
Margin Trading skill. It lets you set up buy orders that you cannot afford to complete.
The scammer sets up the order but doesn't have enough isk in his wallet to complete the buy order. When you try to fill the buy order, the game _automatically_ cancels the order leaving you with the assets. The scammer makes his money by setting up conveniently priced sell orders nearby which you buy to fulfill his bogus buy order.
Works as designed, you can find previous threads about it on eve-search.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Candar Beldrulf
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Posted - 2011.04.13 18:45:00 -
[13]
*cough* margin trading *cough*
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.04.13 18:45:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Grey Stormshadow on 13/04/2011 18:45:42
Originally by: Levi Devereaux I didn't initiate a sell order, the second you sell an item, the sell window pops up. You still have to click the sell button on it. I see absolutely no way how I got scammed outside of a third party program. Its not possible by a human to take a buy order off the market the exact second someone sells it if the buyer already has a buy order place. Completely impossible. The person does not have a camera in my house looking at my screen o.O
...they didn't take the buy order off from market. They just didn't have iskies to cover for it.
And you created sell order, which was completed by the buy order, which didn't complete because it was margin scam and yes, you still have to pay the brokers fee from your sell order...
...so you got scammed. Have a nice day. ------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.04.13 18:55:00 -
[15]
Ok let me explain this,
you were scammed
you see there is a skill called Margin Trading*
what he did was set up sell orders for the item
the set up a rediculous buy order with insuficent funds to cover even a basic buy order.
Bascialy Ive said this before I will say it again. READ MY SIG
*Ability to make potentially risky investments work in your favor. Each level of skill reduces the percentage of ISK placed in market escrow when entering buy orders. Starting with an escrow percentage of 100% at Level 0 (untrained skill), each skill level cumulatively reduces the percentage by 25%. For a maximum reduction of approximately 24% total escrow at level 5.
.End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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Levi Devereaux
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Posted - 2011.04.13 18:56:00 -
[16]
Ok, I looked up margin trading scam. I think that maybe some sort of response should be sent to a seller if the first highest buyer's order fails due to lack of funds and asking them if they wish to continue. Since as a seller, it showed me that a buyer was offering that much money for those items. Its not like I used a contract and sold something for 3mil when I thought I was getting 3bil simply because I misread the contract. Anyways this completely crushed my drive to play Eve for a couple of days, hopefully I'll be back after a little hiatus. I dunno. This was very demoralizing.
Thank you all for the feedback and enjoy the rest of your Eve experience.
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Aliyah Sa'adat Alnasseri
Terajima Trading Company
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Posted - 2011.04.13 19:18:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Aliyah Sa''adat Alnasseri on 13/04/2011 19:20:22 Next time look at the graph for the item in question. If it looks too good to be true, it is.
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Batelle
do you
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Posted - 2011.04.13 19:20:00 -
[18]
To be clear, I'm not complaining about the scam, but I think margin trading should negative your wallet. Isn't that how actual margin trading works? You put the items in escrow with a portion of the funds, the transaction is carried out, and you as the buyer are only responsible for the cash when the transaction takes place.
--------------------------------------------- EC-P8R... You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. |
Aliyah Sa'adat Alnasseri
Terajima Trading Company
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Posted - 2011.04.13 19:24:00 -
[19]
I agree in theory, but if you think it though, in practice that would be highly exploitable. I could buy from my alt, let the alt's wallet go negative, and enjoy the profits on my main. I could keep doing this with new alts on new buddy accounts to effectively print ISK.
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.13 19:28:00 -
[20]
Edited by: stoicfaux on 13/04/2011 19:28:51
Originally by: Batelle To be clear, I'm not complaining about the scam, but I think margin trading should negative your wallet. Isn't that how actual margin trading works? You put the items in escrow with a portion of the funds, the transaction is carried out, and you as the buyer are only responsible for the cash when the transaction takes place.
Step 1. Use alt to place buy order with margin trading. 75 isk put down on a 100 isk order. Step 2. You main fills the buy order and gets 100 isk. The alt is now at -25 isk. Step 3. Delete the alt and his -25 isk of debt.
You're up 25 isk. Such a scam would probably be a bannable offense, but I'm pretty CCP has better things to do than run around investigating whether every negative wallet deletion was a scam or not.
edit: And before you suggest getting rid of Margin Trading, it does have valid uses and legitimate traders use it all the time.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Apollo Gabriel
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2011.04.13 19:40:00 -
[21]
Levi,
Sorry that it didn't work out this time, in the future you should know that trading in jita means you lose isk, period. If it was easy isk, someone would do it. If the price is stupidly high, it is a scam period. We get used to the market being some kind of absolute, and it sucks! But ask yourself, why the hell would someone spend that much isk on a module? They wouldn't, it was too good to be true.
Best AG
***** Signature may appear without warning! ***** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
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Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.13 19:46:00 -
[22]
Now look at your wallet journal and see if you've bought the Annointed EM ward modules mostly from one guy and/or if you can tell who the scammer was, and declare war on them.
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.04.13 20:05:00 -
[23]
came here expecting a thread about margin trading.
and.. well, whadda you know? I was not surprised. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Zaqar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2011.04.13 20:06:00 -
[24]
Curses. I ran out of EM shield hardeners. Anyone got a spare one? --
Originally by: Brian Ballsack please learn to use english if your gonna post
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.13 20:09:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Batelle To be clear, I'm not complaining about the scam, but I think margin trading should negative your wallet.
So, you want to replace a SCAM possibility with an EXPLOIT possibility ? Good going there, genius ! [/sarcasm]
P.S. In case that I was not clear enough - this would open up the possibility of INFINITE ISK. Think about it for a few moments. _
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
Calfis
Amarr F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2011.04.13 20:09:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Merouk Baas Now look at your wallet journal and see if you've bought the Annointed EM ward modules mostly from one guy and/or if you can tell who the scammer was, and declare war on them.
Because they obviously would not be in an NPC corp.
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Ioci
Gallente Morrigna Order
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Posted - 2011.04.13 20:13:00 -
[27]
He didnt change the sell order price, he changed the volume.
Obviously it's a scam. You learned the hard way as many do in EVE, Levi. If it profits, it's a macro or a scam. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2011.04.13 20:33:00 -
[28]
Change the title of your thread to something else. Just a suggestion but the more people that read that the more people will come by for your tears.
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
Throatslitter
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Posted - 2011.04.13 20:38:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Throatslitter on 13/04/2011 20:39:00 Some people are born with criminal tendencies, they flourish in this game where a criminal gets the reward and the victims are laughed at.
As much as I like this game, engaging in borderline criminal behaviour for fun is not something I'm comfortable with, others, well, we meet them in New Eden every day.
The forums is a good place to stay informed about the latest scams and how to avoid them.
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The DRUDGE
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Posted - 2011.04.13 20:46:00 -
[30]
You realize the more and hard you complain / cry about this, the trolling's gonna get better? ;)
I would just take this as a lesson learned and adapt. Hell you could take up margin trading scamming yourself. Remember, a sucker is born every minute.
Cheers,
P.S. If it looks too good to be true, it usually is.
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