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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2011.04.13 20:46:00 -
[31]
Nothing new about that.
The buyer had the order listed in the market but he has not enough isk to actually buy the stuff - this possible due to the margin trading skill.
Since the buyer would go into negative wallet (which is not allowed by any action except GM interference), the order is just cancelled and you end up with your stuff on the markt as sell order.
I call it game mechanics not working correctly, the GM's call it all fine and good. So in the end it is all fine and good. You just got scammed. |
Ifly Uwalk
Caldari Empire Tax Collection Agency
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Posted - 2011.04.13 20:46:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Levi Devereaux After traveling to 16 different markets...
LOLOL
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Lykouleon
Bad Kitty Inc.
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Posted - 2011.04.13 20:46:00 -
[33]
You have fallen for a legitimate game mechanic.
Abandon all hope, ye who seek sympathy here. Don't click on this. No, really, don't, it'll make your eyes bleed. |
Kyra Felann
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.04.13 20:56:00 -
[34]
I'm ashamed to admit, but this happened to me also a while back. However, I learned what happened and to not do it again instead of accusing people of "hacking" in a giant wall of text whine on the forums.
Also, I love how you put in all caps, "'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT" every time you refer to the 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT, the 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT being what you bought and the 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT being what you thought you were going to sell at Jita IV - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant. You got scammed with 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT in Jita IV - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant.
Anyway, as said before, it's due to MARGIN TRADING. MARGIN TRADING lets you do scams with 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT and even other things. I don't remember what I got scammed with by MARGIN TRADING, but I think it was T2 SMALL DRONE DURABILITY ENHANCER or something like T2 SMALL DRONE DURABILITY ENHANCER. It was definitely not 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT, though. Nor was it in Jita IV - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant. -----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW-----
Bring back the NeoNeoCom! |
Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.04.13 21:01:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Akita T
P.S. In case that I was not clear enough - this would open up the possibility of INFINITE ISK. Think about it for a few moments.
With all due respect, after all of the recent discussions of isk faucets and sinks, I thought this point had been made clear: no isk is created through market trades. I assume your use of the word "infinite" was meant hyperbolically.
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Levi Devereaux
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Posted - 2011.04.13 21:06:00 -
[36]
I'm enjoying all these tears remarks. Rather entertaining. All I was asking was if it was a hack / bug and for someone to enlighten me as to what happened. I have thus found out what exactly happened. Thank you to those who have listed the reason.
While it is a bit demoralizing to lose that money, I can take some solace in the fact that the fellow who set this scam up didn't get any money from me. Apparently his goal was for me to buy the extremely overpriced items in Jita. All the items I bought were around the average price across all the systems from SEVERAL different people. The main hit for me was the broker fee which CCP gets. DAMN YOU CCP. Games must have sinkholes I guess.
As to me capitalizing the item in question, it was capitalized in the market and not by me. Pardon my laziness for copy and paste. For wall of text, are you serious??? I'm used to playing Multi User Dungeons from back in the day where the game was nothing but text. A couple paragraphs is apparently the end of the world.
No tears, just enlightenment.
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Jenny Superfood
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Posted - 2011.04.13 21:08:00 -
[37]
This makes me wonder why the Margin Trading skill isn't simply removed from the game. It's not like the skillpoints can't be reimbursed.
It's stuff like this that's preventing people from staying in the game. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.13 21:10:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Tippia on 13/04/2011 21:10:35
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
Originally by: Akita T P.S. In case that I was not clear enough - this would open up the possibility of INFINITE ISK. Think about it for a few moments.
With all due respect, after all of the recent discussions of isk faucets and sinks, I thought this point had been made clear: no isk is created through market trades. I assume your use of the word "infinite" was meant hyperbolically.
No, he's not, because that kind of mechanic would change the market so it would create ISK through trading.
àand the "infinite" part would just be a matter of repetition.
Originally by: Jenny Superfood This makes me wonder why the Margin Trading skill isn't simply removed from the game.
Because there's no particular reason for removing it. vOv ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic
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Posted - 2011.04.13 21:16:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Levi Devereaux I didn't initiate a sell order, the second you sell an item, the sell window pops up. You still have to click the sell button on it. I see absolutely no way how I got scammed outside of a third party program. Its not possible by a human to take a buy order off the market the exact second someone sells it if the buyer already has a buy order place. Completely impossible. The person does not have a camera in my house looking at my screen o.O
Pull your finger out of your nose and put your pants back on you filthy ****
Sincerely, the guy with a camera in your house
...oh wait
Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3 |
Levi Devereaux
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Posted - 2011.04.13 21:20:00 -
[40]
Lol, Copine Callmeknau. You are the only person that has made me laugh. :)
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Kyra Felann
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.04.13 21:20:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Levi Devereaux I'm enjoying all these tears remarks. Rather entertaining. All I was asking was if it was a hack / bug and for someone to enlighten me as to what happened. I have thus found out what exactly happened. Thank you to those who have listed the reason.
While it is a bit demoralizing to lose that money, I can take some solace in the fact that the fellow who set this scam up didn't get any money from me. Apparently his goal was for me to buy the extremely overpriced items in Jita. All the items I bought were around the average price across all the systems from SEVERAL different people. The main hit for me was the broker fee which CCP gets. DAMN YOU CCP. Games must have sinkholes I guess.
As to me capitalizing the item in question, it was capitalized in the market and not by me. Pardon my laziness for copy and paste. For wall of text, are you serious??? I'm used to playing Multi User Dungeons from back in the day where the game was nothing but text. A couple paragraphs is apparently the end of the world.
No tears, just enlightenment.
I used to play MUDs also and I still play interactive fiction. I also read books. I have no problem with text, it's just that your original post was about twice as long as it needed to be, full of unnecessary detail, especially considering about half of that text was 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT over and over. My point was that you didn't need to put 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT every time you're referring to 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT. It made it hard to read when it's got 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT all over the place. -----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW-----
Bring back the NeoNeoCom! |
Bloody Anarchy
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Posted - 2011.04.13 21:22:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Bloody Anarchy on 13/04/2011 21:22:42 xx
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Levi Devereaux
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Posted - 2011.04.13 21:25:00 -
[43]
Point taken Kyra |
Kyra Felann
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.04.13 21:28:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Jenny Superfood This makes me wonder why the Margin Trading skill isn't simply removed from the game. It's not like the skillpoints can't be reimbursed.
It's stuff like this that's preventing people from staying in the game.
That'd be like removing the Contracting skill from the game because people do scams through contracts.
The skill has valid uses, although I agree that this use is a borderline exploit. I'm fine with scams targeting stupidity and carelessness, but this is a fairly obscure loophole, plus there's really no way to see it coming except for thinking "is this too good to be true"?
As far as negative balances being exploitable, couldn't they make it where characters with negative balances couldn't be deleted and make margin trading not trainable on trial accounts (if it's not already that way). I'm sure I'm missing something obvious, but I'm tired and it seems to make sense at the moment. -----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW-----
Bring back the NeoNeoCom! |
Jenny Superfood
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Posted - 2011.04.13 22:42:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Kyra Felann
Originally by: Jenny Superfood This makes me wonder why the Margin Trading skill isn't simply removed from the game. It's not like the skillpoints can't be reimbursed.
It's stuff like this that's preventing people from staying in the game.
That'd be like removing the Contracting skill from the game because people do scams through contracts.
At least the contracts are useful to more than just a handful of players.
To me it's a simple case of general usefulness vs level of abuse, and I fail to see how the former overcomes the latter.
Oh sure, CCP could actually sit down and take the time to fix this problem, except this is CCP, they actually can't do something like that without breaking the game in six different ways.
But simply removing the skill won't break the game (I hope), it won't create any threadnaughts, and it won't even make the market elders cry. They'll just adapt and continue. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic
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Posted - 2011.04.13 22:51:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Jenny Superfood
Originally by: Kyra Felann
Originally by: Jenny Superfood This makes me wonder why the Margin Trading skill isn't simply removed from the game. It's not like the skillpoints can't be reimbursed.
It's stuff like this that's preventing people from staying in the game.
That'd be like removing the Contracting skill from the game because people do scams through contracts.
At least the contracts are useful to more than just a handful of players.
To me it's a simple case of general usefulness vs level of abuse, and I fail to see how the former overcomes the latter.
Oh sure, CCP could actually sit down and take the time to fix this problem, except this is CCP, they actually can't do something like that without breaking the game in six different ways.
But simply removing the skill won't break the game (I hope), it won't create any threadnaughts, and it won't even make the market elders cry. They'll just adapt and continue.
Confirming titans should be removed from game because they're only owned by a handful of players
...oh wait
Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3 |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.13 22:52:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Batelle To be clear, I'm not complaining about the scam, but I think margin trading should negative your wallet.
So, you want to replace a SCAM possibility with an EXPLOIT possibility ? In case that I was not clear enough - this would open up the possibility of INFINITE ISK.
With all due respect, after all of the recent discussions of isk faucets and sinks, I thought this point had been made clear: no isk is created through market trades. I assume your use of the word "infinite" was meant hyperbolically.
Say I have 250 bil ISK liquid. I train a fresh alt with L4 margin trading (only pay 31.64% of escrow, add in broker fee and whatnot, call it a third of normal). I give my alt all those 250 bil ISK, go in a remote area with nobody else in local, put up a buy order of 750 bil ISK for some exotic item I have on my main, and I sell that to my alt. I now have 750 bil ISK, my alt has a negative 500 bil ISK wallet. Second alt, 750 bil ISK turns into 2.25 trillion ISK. Third alt, 2.25 trillion ISK turns into 6.75 trillion ISK. Fourth alt, 20.25 trillion. Fifth alt, 60.75 trillion. Sixth alt ? 182,250,000,000,000.00 ISK.
I suppose you get the idea.
That's just from using two accounts with 3 characters on each. I don't even need to recycle them, I can just let them lapse.
_
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic
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Posted - 2011.04.13 22:56:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Batelle To be clear, I'm not complaining about the scam, but I think margin trading should negative your wallet.
So, you want to replace a SCAM possibility with an EXPLOIT possibility ? In case that I was not clear enough - this would open up the possibility of INFINITE ISK.
With all due respect, after all of the recent discussions of isk faucets and sinks, I thought this point had been made clear: no isk is created through market trades. I assume your use of the word "infinite" was meant hyperbolically.
Say I have 250 bil ISK liquid. I train a fresh alt with L4 margin trading (only pay 31.64% of escrow, add in broker fee and whatnot, call it a third of normal). I give my alt all those 250 bil ISK, go in a remote area with nobody else in local, put up a buy order of 750 bil ISK for some exotic item I have on my main, and I sell that to my alt. I now have 750 bil ISK, my alt has a negative 500 bil ISK wallet. Second alt, 750 bil ISK turns into 2.25 trillion ISK. Third alt, 2.25 trillion ISK turns into 6.75 trillion ISK. Fourth alt, 20.25 trillion. Fifth alt, 60.75 trillion. Sixth alt ? 182,250,000,000,000.00 ISK.
I suppose you get the idea.
That's just from using two accounts with 3 characters on each. I don't even need to recycle them, I can just let them lapse.
At least you would make RMT'ers cry by crashing the market. No way in hell anybody would be able to unload that.... US$8.2mil of isk
...oh wait
Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3 |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.13 22:59:00 -
[49]
Sice-note, by the seventh alt, I would have more ISK than exists right now in EVE in total.
_
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2011.04.13 23:08:00 -
[50]
Your thread title scared me until I read further. Therefore I will accept 500'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT instead of all 1100 as a settlement. Otherwise I will sue you for 10 Billion ISK for psychological damages. uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ Signature removed. Please submit a petition for further details. Navigator
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente NME1
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Posted - 2011.04.13 23:10:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Merouk Baas Now look at your wallet journal and see if you've bought the Annointed EM ward modules mostly from one guy and/or if you can tell who the scammer was, and declare war on them.
It's fairly useless to declare war on a alt that never undocks from Jita 4-4.
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Captain Brickwalle
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Posted - 2011.04.13 23:11:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Captain Brickwalle on 13/04/2011 23:16:35 This has happened to me before on non scam items, just make sure you are selling "immediate"... that way if it wont go through it just wont sell, rather than get pushed to the sell orders.
Sucks that this happened to you through a market grief though. |
Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.04.13 23:13:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Kyra Felann
Originally by: Levi Devereaux I'm enjoying all these tears remarks. Rather entertaining. All I was asking was if it was a hack / bug and for someone to enlighten me as to what happened. I have thus found out what exactly happened. Thank you to those who have listed the reason.
While it is a bit demoralizing to lose that money, I can take some solace in the fact that the fellow who set this scam up didn't get any money from me. Apparently his goal was for me to buy the extremely overpriced items in Jita. All the items I bought were around the average price across all the systems from SEVERAL different people. The main hit for me was the broker fee which CCP gets. DAMN YOU CCP. Games must have sinkholes I guess.
As to me capitalizing the item in question, it was capitalized in the market and not by me. Pardon my laziness for copy and paste. For wall of text, are you serious??? I'm used to playing Multi User Dungeons from back in the day where the game was nothing but text. A couple paragraphs is apparently the end of the world.
No tears, just enlightenment.
I used to play MUDs also and I still play interactive fiction. I also read books. I have no problem with text, it's just that your original post was about twice as long as it needed to be, full of unnecessary detail, especially considering about half of that text was 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT over and over. My point was that you didn't need to put 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT every time you're referring to 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT. It made it hard to read when it's got 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT all over the place.
needs more 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT because 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT on 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT to become 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT.
also, 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Craam Hustler
Gallente ReTech We Are John Galt
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Posted - 2011.04.13 23:16:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Levi Devereaux I'm letting EVERYONE know that there is a bug / hack that players out there use to totally screw you over on the market in Jita and I really don't know how its works. I truly hope that CCP looks into this as it cost me a severe amount of ISK since I am rather inactive and have a low sp char.
Upon using Eve-Central route finder to find a route between Heimatar and the forge, I noticed that 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT had a buyer in jita for 6 mil isk a unit (severely overpriced in comparison to the rest of the eve galaxy), the catch was is that they wanted 1100 min volume. I ALSO noticed that there were 2 sell orders for the 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT at 2mil and 5mil at just under the volume required for the buy order listed above. Knowing this was possibly too good to be true, I decided to take a gamble and plunge head first in an attempt to acquire 1100 units. Knowing that this was probably some trick of sorts for the buyer to make money by people buying the sell orders and then removing the buy order right away, I scanned eve central and located several other places outside of the forge to purchase 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT fairly cheap.
After traveling to 16 different markets, I had actually acquired 1106 units of 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT and then made my way to Jita. During this entire process I had a small little alt of mine in Jita on my laptop (I mainly play on my desktop) constantly checking the market to see if the buy order changed at all. It remained exactly the same during the hour and a half it took me to travel to all of these systems and purchase the goods.
I arrived in Jita, WAS NOT SCANNED at all by anyone (complete shock), docked at Jita IV - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant, moved all 1106 united of 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT to my hanger. I then checked the market price AGAIN to ensure that the buy order was still up. It was STILL THERE. I immediately right clicked on the 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT and clicked the "sell this item" button. The sell window came up and the asking price was ALREADY listed at the highest sell price I could get which was 6,000,000 isk a piece. I then changed my quantity from 1106 to 1100 and clicked the sell button. I immediately checked my wallet and saw that it was at 7.18 mil. I did a double take at it, then clicked under transactions and then under journal and noticed that I was hit for a 57.4 mil broker fee. I checked market orders that exact second and noticed I had a sell order of 1100 units of 'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT at 6mil a piece and that the original buy order had completely disappeared.
Something is EXTREMELY fishy about this transaction. I find it utterly absurd that during the entire hour and a half it took me to get the goods that the order did not disappear but the EXACT second I do sell, the order immediately disappears, I get hit for a 57.4mil broker fee, and now have 1100 units in Jita for sale. FML
Has something like this happened to other people? Am I getting screwed by some mythical part of Eve that I am completely ignorant of? Is there a way for me to submit this to CCP to look into this? I've pretty much already written this off as a massive loss on my part but would really like them to look into this to stop whoever is doing this.
Thank you, I'm going to inhale about half a bottle of tequila. Any feedback is appreciated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3n0vBcW5fc
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Erichk Knaar
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.04.13 23:25:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Levi Devereaux
Knowing this was possibly too good to be true
Bolded the important part for you.
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Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2011.04.14 00:00:00 -
[56]
"'ANOINTED' I EM WARD REINFORCEMENT" is now a meme
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Hieronimus Rex
Minmatar Infinitus Sapientia New Eden Research.
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Posted - 2011.04.14 00:03:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Batelle To be clear, I'm not complaining about the scam, but I think margin trading should negative your wallet.
So, you want to replace a SCAM possibility with an EXPLOIT possibility ? Good going there, genius ! [/sarcasm]
P.S. In case that I was not clear enough - this would open up the possibility of INFINITE ISK. Think about it for a few moments.
This makes me wonder...
What would EVE look like if it were designed by General Discussion?
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Miss Krunk
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Posted - 2011.04.14 00:15:00 -
[58]
I had never heard of this before. OP, take comfort in the knowledge that you have served as a warning to others.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.04.14 00:26:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Hieronimus Rex
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Batelle To be clear, I'm not complaining about the scam, but I think margin trading should negative your wallet.
So, you want to replace a SCAM possibility with an EXPLOIT possibility ? Good going there, genius ! [/sarcasm]
P.S. In case that I was not clear enough - this would open up the possibility of INFINITE ISK. Think about it for a few moments.
The original incarnation of PI comes to mind
This makes me wonder...
What would EVE look like if it were designed by General Discussion?
.End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.04.14 00:32:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Jenny Superfood This makes me wonder why the Margin Trading skill isn't simply removed from the game. It's not like the skillpoints can't be reimbursed.
It's stuff like this that's preventing people from staying in the game.
Because it is legitimatly used to buy things like junk modules and other items to be reprocessed for minerals
For example If I want to use 100B on buy orders for junk to recycle. the reality is that thanks to the both the RNG and other buy orders I cant reliably predict what I will end up with, but by scatershotting smaller ammounts over larger numbers of items (bascialy putting 100 orders out for a total of 50 billion and leave the rest sitting in the bank to buy up modules as they are actualy sold to the alt)
.End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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