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Igerua
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.04.16 14:10:00 -
[1]
Dear Eve players,
It seems to me that Paladin/kronos web bonus is much worse than target painter bonus that golem has and is a joke comparing to falloff bonus that Vargur gets. Am I wrong? Do any of you like this bonus? Please don't talk about taking marauders to pvp.
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Crabs Collector
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Posted - 2011.04.16 14:18:00 -
[2]
The webber bonus is very useful for incursions, and for when youre missioning against angels.
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.04.16 14:32:00 -
[3]
I ussualy ignore the armor and web bonus of paladin so i can fit something like this
[Paladin, PVE Bread N Butter] True Sansha Heat Sink True Sansha Heat Sink True Sansha Heat Sink True Sansha Heat Sink Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Pith A-Type Photon Scattering Field 100MN Afterburner II
Ammatar Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Ammatar Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Ammatar Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Ammatar Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II Salvager II
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Large Energy Burst Aerator II
Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5
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Igerua
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.04.16 20:09:00 -
[4]
Straight, I was uneasy ignoring web bonus on paladin, but shield tanking it on top of that is a bit too radical for my liking.
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King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
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Posted - 2011.04.16 21:28:00 -
[5]
The web bonus is very handy in missions with lots of frigs. Throw 2 faction webs on and once you're done with the bigger stuff you can turn your tachyons on that scrambling frig orbiting at 2km and hit for full damage. It's also great in incursions, many of the npc's are impossible to hit without a web or two even with cruiser sized guns. So a pair of 90% webs bringing them to a dead stop is invaluable. Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.04.17 01:08:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Straight Edged I ussualy ignore the armor and web bonus of paladin so i can fit something like this <snip>
1.) Buy a Nightmare 2.) Stop being terrible.
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.04.17 01:53:00 -
[7]
i sold my nightmare.
Because its dps is the same, as both has 4 heat sinks and burst aerators. The only difference of the fit of my nightmare and paladin, is two tracking comps instead of tracking enhancers. Which obviously never really use tracking scripts.
However, Paladin's cap bonus and lots of passive mods gives it a nice tank shield with only 3-4 slots. Its tractor bonus makes it really nice to use. To me, nightmare is just a ship to use for people with low SP. just like all faction ships.
Remember. in optimized PVE. armor tanking bonus is kinda useless. Since a crystal set gives as much shield boost anyways. Any sane PVE ship needs at least 8 dps mods. In this case, 4 heat sink, aerator, and 3 TE's. anything less is unacceptable.
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ZW Dewitt
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Posted - 2011.04.17 07:15:00 -
[8]
Nightmare has tracking bonus. In optimized PVE crystals are useless since tank isnt an issue and +5s yield faster training.
The web bonus is generally useless since stuff rarely makes it to web range. The rare frigs that do can be taken care of by drones. Youre typically better off with a tracking comp.
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.04.17 07:35:00 -
[9]
Thats the thing.
I value passive tracking enhancers, better tractors, and better cap that paladin has compared to tracking comps (which i never script for tracking) and tracking bonus.
To me tracking bonus is kinda useless. Afterall, rats either have 0 angular velocity (MWDing straight to you) , or totally untrackable angular velocity (cruisers and frigs have orbited you).
Thats why i prefer paladin. But nightmare isnt bad. for people with not enough SP.
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Crabs Collector
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Posted - 2011.04.17 07:51:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Straight Edged Thats the thing.
I value passive tracking enhancers, better tractors, and better cap that paladin has compared to tracking comps (which i never script for tracking) and tracking bonus.
To me tracking bonus is kinda useless. Afterall, rats either have 0 angular velocity (MWDing straight to you) , or totally untrackable angular velocity (cruisers and frigs have orbited you).
Thats why i prefer paladin. But nightmare isnt bad. for people with not enough SP.
This is where your shield tank fit fails. With the 3 tracking enhancers you have alot worse tracking than a paladin with 2 scripted tracking computers. For the rest i like the shield fit, always nice if you can fit both AB and tachyons at the same time for those far-away gates ;)
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.04.17 08:09:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Straight Edged on 17/04/2011 08:10:26 As i said. and i will say again.
Pve is such that, rats either have 0 angular velocity. or infinitely impossible to hit.
the 20-50% extra tracking doesnt do a thing. no matter how horrible the turret tracking is, you will always hit frigs as long as you know what you doing.
And i definitely do.
i rather have 80% less tracking then having less dps. obviously i can also swap tracking comps by dishing out the AB (which i use for two or three msisions only)
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Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.04.17 08:17:00 -
[12]
The web bonus acts as insurance, you can choose to ignore the smaller stuff and focus on bringing dps down .. normally you'd aim to take out incoming frigs/tackle first and no amount of tracking modules will help you hit that frigate at 5km
Additionally, the web bonus allows for beam use providing a significant speed increase in most missions while still being able to hit the closer stuff.
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.04.17 08:22:00 -
[13]
you got it wrong.
remember my quote. In PVE, rats either have 0 angular velocity or infinitely impossible to hit.
Web isnt going to magically let your tachyons hit fast orbiting frigs and some drones.
Even if you are on a nightmare with 4 tracking comps and 4 tracking enhances with 3 tracking rigs.
You will never be able to hit those.
Thats why tracking is pointless. Just like how people prefer tach's compared to beam II's, the tracking penalty is not felt at all. This is because the stupidity of the rats, where they will always turn on mWD and "orbit at 1km"
im not defending my fit. it is a tested and true fit for the paladin, and a significant an improvement from the nightmare when im piloting it.
What im saying is, tracking bonus is overated. If you ask nightmare pilots with two tracking comps, ask them what script they use 100% of the time. ill be darned if its not optimal script.
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Crabs Collector
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Posted - 2011.04.17 14:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Straight Edged Edited by: Straight Edged on 17/04/2011 08:10:26 As i said. and i will say again.
Pve is such that, rats either have 0 angular velocity. or infinitely impossible to hit.
the 20-50% extra tracking doesnt do a thing. no matter how horrible the turret tracking is, you will always hit frigs as long as you know what you doing.
/quote]
This is complete nonsense. In some missions you can indeed shoot the frigs before they start orbiting. But in alot of missions you cant. Plus you already said that you have problems hitting orbitting cruisers, well you dont have that problem with 2 TC's fitted.
And having 50% more tracking, improves your effective dps HELL alot more than a 4th heatsink. Might look nice for you in EFT, but in missions its pointless if you cant track your target properly.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.04.17 14:54:00 -
[15]
Edited by: The Djego on 17/04/2011 15:00:52 It is great vs angels and in some missions where you need to deal with a lot of undersized stuff at close range to keep the DPS up against them.
Granted the use on the Paladin is a bit more limited if you stick with it to amarr space, where it only really comes handy in damsel, cargo delivery and AE from my personal experience. On the other hand if you use the Kronos/Paladin in mini space it improves the performance quite a lot.
Actually it was, before the web nerf 2.5 years ago, mostly a tool to compleetly focus with your guns and drones on bigger stuff. You just webbed a frig, and switched the guns when it was slow enough. Also since the speed cap was 1% instead of just 10% targets bigger than frigs where already slow enough to project peak dps after the first 10s of webbing instead of 20-30s like it is now what further increased her utility.
That was actually a great concept for pure sentry/gun based play style.
It is however very useful for incursions.
Btw you can perfectly fine fit 4 damage mods + T2 damage rig + 2TCs on the pala and still have a working armor tank with a corpum a med rep. The extra tracking makes a great difference in missions like vengeance with tachs, where you have lots of cruisers/Bcs at 15-25km range.
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.04.18 00:17:00 -
[16]
never had any problem with vengeance.
With 3 tracking enhancers, paladin can easily track elite cruisers and orbiting cruisers (like in world collide final room)
Normal cruisers dies in 1-2 hits, signalling no drop in alpha from the nightmare.
The problem lies with drones. but even rogue drone mission, you can easily kill every spawn with only the gun, as long as i have afterburner fitted.
be careful when you say "But in alot of missions you cant" because most of the time, it only reflects that you never flew the ship.
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Igerua
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.04.18 06:18:00 -
[17]
Thank you Djego for your information, that helped a lot.
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Terianna Eri
Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.04.18 15:18:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Straight Edged In PVE, rats either have 0 angular velocity or infinitely impossible to hit.
You can keep saying this as much as you want, but it will never be true ________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Crabs Collector
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Posted - 2011.04.18 15:25:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Straight Edged In PVE, rats either have 0 angular velocity or infinitely impossible to hit.
You can keep saying this as much as you want, but it will never be true
Indeed. I'm actually starting to doubt if straight edged really ever used the paladin because of those silly claims.
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Drexit
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Posted - 2011.04.18 16:09:00 -
[20]
The web bonuses in incursions are super useful, like many people mentioned. With dual true sansha webs, and a good skirmish booster, you can web frigs out to 20km, and bring them down to around 50 m/s.
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