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Draco Llasa
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Posted - 2011.04.17 03:15:00 -
[1]
On April 16th at 20:00 CSM 6 held its first of many Fireside chats as outlined in our recent Devblog. http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=897
First off I want to thank the nearly 450 people that joined the voice chat and the 200 people that were interacting in our CSM Public chat channel. We were also joined also by at least 1 CCP dev that participated in the chat also.
Going forward the CSM intends to hold these public Chat/Q & A sessions on a regular basis. While we canÆ t say exactly how often that would be, the intent right now is that it will be roughly every 1-2 months or as needed to discuss new CSM focus points.
You can download the audio file here -> http://eve-files.com/dl/241557 File Size is approx 50 MB Length is about 2 hours Explicit Language
Below are notes with time indexes for the chat in case you looking for a specific area. It is likely a full text transcript will be made available but that will take some time.
---------Notes------------------ Intro/Speech 00:00 û Intro from the Chairman, review of CSM position, our first focus of time dilation (Link) 02:53 û First topic û Our dev blog which was about how the CSM will work and Time Dilation 09:21 û Review of our plans and agendas for the May CSM Summit 09:45 û Ship Iteration (fixing all the crap with ships and modules 11:12 û Null sec industrialization, farms and fields for 0.0 areas, provide objectives for small gangs 12:25 û POS issues 12:35 û Cap/Super cap balancing 12:55 û Improving CSM / CCP Interaction process 14:11 û Feature Abandonment 14:34 û Risk/Reward across areas of space (high/low/null sec) 14:50 û New Player retention and experience, GM/customer support issues, UI, eve/dust link
Scandals 15:19 û Security issues with the new EVE-Online forums (Link) 16:35 û Issue with the anomaly blog/nerf (Link)
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Draco Llasa
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Posted - 2011.04.17 03:17:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Draco Llasa on 17/04/2011 03:17:01 Q & A Session 18:19 û Explanation of Time Dilation, The CSMÆs first spotlight issue. 22:11 û What is the CSMs stance on minority players 23:54 û Since the 2 main topics spotlighted by CSM 6 are null sec focused, why should empire players care 26:00 û What is the CSMs position on Jump/Titan Bridges nerf. 27: 54 û What is the CSMs interpretation on the problems with Factional Warfare 30:54 û Is anything planned to balance moon income 32:43 û What is the CSMs view on the recent anomaly nerf in 0.0 36:06 û what are the CSMs thoughts on New Player Experience and Captains Quarters (Captains Quarters fanfest Video) 40:30 û Will CSM have any input on the connection between Dust and Eve 41:19 û CSM5 relation with CCP and the resulting impact to CSM 6 43:55 û Views on value of space in direct relation to security of space 46:05 û How will the CSM deal with the rejection of an idea by CCP 48:05 û Could CSM get CCP to publish overall CCP goals 50:17 û Thoughts on revamping Dreads 51:21 û Will Dust be on the PC? 52:10 û Thoughts on eve sounds and overall sound controls 53:24 û What are the CSMs thoughts on the current 0.0 political situation and should game mechanics be use to control the power blocs. 56:58 û CSMs view on AFK Cloakers 57:58 û CSMs views on expanding null sec 01:00:29 û Is there input on the games current growth and CCPs growth strategies 01:04:25 û Are there any plans to address the discrepancies between the CCP Economist, CCP and how the economy works. 01:07:00 û Will Jove space open up? 01:07:34 û Thoughts on fixing Mining and PVE so it isnÆt boring 01:13:30 û Each CSM member identifies their single biggest issue. 01:16:43 û CSMs thoughts on EWAR, elaboration on ship iteration 01:18:56 û CSM each name your favorite NonniÆs sub 01:21:44 û What happen to the industrial expansion. 01:26:43 û What are the actual effects of time dilation on the servers. 01:27:30 û Can we get CCP to document the game more 01:30:02 û Does CCPÆs anti RMT work take inflation or economic impact into effect. (CCP Security Fanfest video which talks about bots) 01:32:27 û what is the best way to support the CSM 01:37:09 û Thoughts on T2 BPOs 01:39:10 û Explanation of the CSMs stakeholder role 01:46:45 û What can we do to improve CCP communication to the community 01:50:30 û How do you feel about incursions.
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Marconus Orion
S.E.G.W.A.Y.
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Posted - 2011.04.17 03:45:00 -
[3]
Why do you list the anomaly change as a scandal?
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Lord Zim
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.17 07:38:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Lord Zim on 17/04/2011 07:38:16
Originally by: Marconus Orion Why do you list the anomaly change as a scandal?
Because Hilmar said there would be MORE communication about how things were going to change, and that anom nerf was deployed without communicating to any of the CSMs?
Or wasn't that tinfoilhatty enough for you?
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Dirk Decibel
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Posted - 2011.04.17 10:54:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Marconus Orion Why do you list the anomaly change as a scandal?
Because they need something to rage about?
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BackStreet Babe
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Posted - 2011.04.17 12:02:00 -
[6]
while it would be nice if the csm could make a difference.
everyone knows ccp disregards the csm as and when it feels like, paying it only lip service in there plans.
the anom changes are a very good example of this disregard
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CCP Manifest
C C P
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Posted - 2011.04.17 12:04:00 -
[7]
Temporarily moved to General Discussion for more... discussion...
Thanks to the Council of Stellar Management members for this unique and important initiative. Here's hoping that everyone who spends time in New Eden finds some time to listen to this recording, even if just while mining or en route somewhere or waiting around for your fleet to assemble.
In order to foster wider discussion, we'd love to see this link shared and issues talked about in a wider arena on your corp message boards, the #tweetfleet and #csm6 twitter hashtags and here in this thread. The feedback loops are important for the CSM itself to better represent you, and the more data, obviously, the better.
CCP Manifest Public Relations || Iniquitous Brute |
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Salpun
Gallente Paramount Commerce
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Posted - 2011.04.17 14:27:00 -
[8]
Yes we can give feed back on this thread
I listened to it live and liked the info it contained. Hope everyone gives it a listen as well.
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Draco Llasa
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Posted - 2011.04.17 15:32:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Lord Zim Edited by: Lord Zim on 17/04/2011 07:38:16
Originally by: Marconus Orion Why do you list the anomaly change as a scandal?
Because Hilmar said there would be MORE communication about how things were going to change, and that anom nerf was deployed without communicating to any of the CSMs?
Yes, this is why it was labeled as a scandal, i believe it was covered in detail during The Mitanni's talk.
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Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2011.04.17 16:24:00 -
[10]
I love the idea and am thankful that there's a recording. It will give me something to do on my nearly three-hour drive to work tomorrow morning. Thanks guys, looking forward to it!
- "When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed." - CCP Big Dumb Object |
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Gangster101 PureLove
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Posted - 2011.04.17 16:34:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Marconus Orion Why do you list the anomaly change as a scandal?
^^^
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Dirk Decibel
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Posted - 2011.04.17 17:32:00 -
[12]
"Herp derp Industry expanshun??? U HAZ AWESUM ORCA SO SHUT UP!!!!11!".
.....
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2011.04.17 17:46:00 -
[13]
Please give a nsfw warning when linking to audio file of Mittani performing auto-fellatio.
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Dirk Decibel
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Posted - 2011.04.17 18:05:00 -
[14]
Originally by: CCP Manifest Temporarily moved to General Discussion for more... discussion...
This is one of the main reasons you can never find CSM info. Cuz it's in the wrong place. A noob who has just figured out that the CSM section on the eve main page is utter crap and that he needs to visit the forums where there is a specific CSM section will now NOT find this thread there....
Being completely oblivious of it's existance, he will prolly never see it....
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Lord Zim
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.17 18:16:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Draco Llasa
Originally by: Lord Zim Edited by: Lord Zim on 17/04/2011 07:38:16
Originally by: Marconus Orion Why do you list the anomaly change as a scandal?
Because Hilmar said there would be MORE communication about how things were going to change, and that anom nerf was deployed without communicating to any of the CSMs?
Yes, this is why it was labeled as a scandal, i believe it was covered in detail during The Mitanni's talk.
It was covered in detail during the mittani's talk (multiple times in fact, I believe). Marconus Orion is just one of Those Guys.
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Draco Llasa
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Posted - 2011.04.17 18:52:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat Please give a nsfw warning when linking to audio file of Mittani performing auto-fellatio.
I did... File Size is approx 50 MB Length is about 2 hours Explicit Language
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Draco Llasa
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Posted - 2011.04.17 18:55:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Dirk Decibel
Originally by: CCP Manifest Temporarily moved to General Discussion for more... discussion...
This is one of the main reasons you can never find CSM info. Cuz it's in the wrong place. A noob who has just figured out that the CSM section on the eve main page is utter crap and that he needs to visit the forums where there is a specific CSM section will now NOT find this thread there....
Being completely oblivious of it's existance, he will prolly never see it....
Maybe try checking first... When CCP Manifest moved the thread he left a reference to it so it actually is posted in the right place, and its posted here too (for a few weeks) http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1498031
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.17 18:57:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Draco Llasa
Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat Please give a nsfw warning when linking to audio file of Mittani performing auto-fellatio.
I did... File Size is approx 50 MB Length is about 2 hours Explicit Language
Nah, you misread the trolling Draco. It's not "Hey, there's NSFW language here, mark it appropriately!" it's "Lowell! Mittens is blowing himself, hey, everybody, I'm clever, I'm saying Mittens is blowing himself!" ------------------------------------------------
Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
Draco Llasa
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Posted - 2011.04.17 18:59:00 -
[19]
oh LOL yea i failed.. i was internet reading.. read the first few words and moved on.. oh well..
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Eclorc
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Posted - 2011.04.17 19:10:00 -
[20]
Interesting stuff, thanks for posting the audio.
On the "Industrial Expansion", at least some recognition was given that the original plans were shelved in favour of stackless IO, and that the whole idea hasn't been totally forgotten about.
There were so many ideas floating around at the time, largely rumours and false hopes, that some digging around on what the expansion would really have been, and what may be expected in the (hope not too distant) future could be a useful thing for the CSM to ask CCP about, if only to manage expectations out here, and get you guys clued up on what was shoved under the carpet back then.
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Dalketh
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Posted - 2011.04.17 19:18:00 -
[21]
Well this hardly encourages people to post to the CSM, or instills confidence that they will be listened to.
Originally by: Draco Llasa oh LOL yea i failed.. i was internet reading.. read the first few words and moved on.. oh well..
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Agent Kyoo
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Posted - 2011.04.17 19:19:00 -
[22]
Yes, please give the leaders of certain alliances a heads up on all game changes so they can use them to their advantage in game. If CCP did have to run all game changes by the CSM first, I think it should only be fair that the rest of the EVE player base have an opportunity to see the proposed changes at the same time.
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BugraT WarheaD
Astromechanica Federatis
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Posted - 2011.04.17 19:27:00 -
[23]
Excellent topic, i'm downloading the MP3 right now. Could we hope a total debriefing for those who, like me, aren't amazing english-spoken people ? :)
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Doggsbody
Lame Duck Logistics
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Posted - 2011.04.17 19:43:00 -
[24]
What the hell was that?! No one apart from Mittani was allowed to speak?!
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The Mittani
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Posted - 2011.04.17 20:50:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Doggsbody What the hell was that?! No one apart from Mittani was allowed to speak?!
i threatened to strangle anyone who spoke out against me - through the internet.
The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
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Lord Zim
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.17 20:53:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Agent Kyoo Yes, please give the leaders of certain alliances a heads up on all game changes so they can use them to their advantage in game. If CCP did have to run all game changes by the CSM first, I think it should only be fair that the rest of the EVE player base have an opportunity to see the proposed changes at the same time.
Pretty sure there'll be a grace period between when the changes are published till they go live.
I strongly doubt you're going to get much more transparency than that, certainly not so far as to seeing each and every draft of every proposal that CCP employees think up.
Originally by: Doggsbody What the hell was that?! No one apart from Mittani was allowed to speak?!
This was covered in the session, at least once.
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Tetragammatron Prime
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Posted - 2011.04.17 20:56:00 -
[27]
No wonder CCP doesn't take the CSM seriously when the chairman starts insulting the intelligence of anyone who doesn't ask a patsy question.
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SkinSin
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Posted - 2011.04.17 21:22:00 -
[28]
Edited by: SkinSin on 17/04/2011 21:23:24 so... any plans to make this more accessible to those of us that have hearing problems... And any idea roughly how long "some time" may be??
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.17 21:35:00 -
[29]
After I'm done with some more certification exams that end on Wednesday, I will happily transcribe the audio for five billion ISK. ------------------------------------------------
Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
Doggsbody
Lame Duck Logistics
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Posted - 2011.04.17 21:40:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lord Zim
Originally by: Doggsbody What the hell was that?! No one apart from Mittani was allowed to speak?!
This was covered in the session, at least once.
Um, no. A paper thin 'reason' was given, but the fact that even when Mittens was asked questions about things he admitted to knowing nothing about he didn't even think to hand it over to one of the others.
Why? Doesn't he trust the other candidates to speak sensibly? He is only one voice on the CSM after all.
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VaMei
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.17 22:35:00 -
[31]
Edited by: VaMei on 17/04/2011 22:39:50 I like the CSM's focus on improving the way CCP maintains the larger game vs. focusing on specific hot button issues. Diemost, dreads, hybrids, Ewar, Supercarriers, FW, Mining and any other ship, module or feature complaint are symptoms of the bigger problem that is the lack of ongoing itteration by CCP. As The Mittani said, this game is full of 'sucking wounds'. Focusing on any one of those wounds isn't focusing on the bigger problem. Team BFF has shown some real results from the Thousand Papercuts perspective and has actually improved gameplay, the only thing players actually see. I can only hope that CCP's management is open to taking that process to the next level.
As a benifit, by directly focusing on improving CCP's process, and improving Eve indirectly, the CSM can avoid the appearance of bias on specific issues. Anything that improves the CSM's legitimacy to the players is IMO a good thing.
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Mike deVoid
Firebird Squadron Terra-Incognita
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Posted - 2011.04.17 22:40:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Doggsbody
Originally by: Lord Zim
Originally by: Doggsbody What the hell was that?! No one apart from Mittani was allowed to speak?!
This was covered in the session, at least once.
Um, no. A paper thin 'reason' was given, but the fact that even when Mittens was asked questions about things he admitted to knowing nothing about he didn't even think to hand it over to one of the others.
Why? Doesn't he trust the other candidates to speak sensibly? He is only one voice on the CSM after all.
But they did speak. And they also said that they would have no hesitation speaking up if something was said they disagreed with or was not covered. So what's the problem again? -----
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.17 22:46:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Mike deVoid So what's the problem again?
A combination of the Dunning-Kruger Effect and the prevalence of lead based paint. ------------------------------------------------
Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
Mr LaForge
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Posted - 2011.04.17 22:53:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Mr LaForge on 17/04/2011 22:56:14 nvm, I'm an idiot
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Klandi
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2011.04.17 23:08:00 -
[35]
Interesting talk, made me re-evaluate my preconceptions of Goons/NC (Mittens has all the braincells) Really like the focus and the direction. You showed an understanding that this is a business you are dealing with and retaining that concept is key to successful negotiations. I hope that you will not get sidetracked.
Well done
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mkint
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Posted - 2011.04.17 23:26:00 -
[36]
Dang, now I have to start thinking Mittani is secretly evil instead of openly evil.
One of the things talked about was documentation. I just wanted to point out that EVE is quite well documented, even officially, through the STAR team. The fact that the STAR team's on going official documentation seems to receive less official support than some 3rd party one concerns me. Why does the in-game help screen send you to the knowledge base that CCP claimed was going to be retired when the Evelopedia came out? Why does that search not send new players to the much more useful Evelopedia? In what other ways are the ISD teams (which have been in place a lot longer than the CSM) not being supported by CCP?
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Mr LaForge
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Posted - 2011.04.18 01:51:00 -
[37]
I like Mittens. Mittens are cool in both the clothing form and the CSM form. he spoke warmly and fuzzily.
Ok in all seriousness I look forward to more of these Q&As because I gained alot of insight and was happy with the issues that were brought up. I'm satisfied with the CSM as a whole and even though Mittani was the only one to really speak for most of it, with the others chiming in, I can see that he has forged this CSM into a very effective and unified front and that is something I am glad to see.
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Meadowvale
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Posted - 2011.04.18 02:22:00 -
[38]
Thanks for the link to download the Fireside chat audio. Can the CSM request CCP to include the Fireside chats in the Eve Gate calendar. The Facebook notification was posted at least an hour after the fireside chat began.
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Gimpb
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
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Posted - 2011.04.18 03:36:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Gimpb on 18/04/2011 03:37:58 I'm pretty impressed that they seem to have developed cohesion and solid positions on so many issues so quickly.
I also like the way they're approaching the game balance issue. They're very much right that eve just doesn't get the constant fine tuning that happens in most high-caliber multiplayer games. Improving this in the way the CSM is suggesting seems very much within reach and I really hope CCP takes action on this input.
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Habaticus
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.18 05:06:00 -
[40]
I have not been a supporter of this CSM, in fact I've posted some negative projections of what I thought might happen. Can't tell about the future, but the macro over micro approach almost seems obvious as the right way to present issues to CCP. I must admit my opinion has changed. In my humble opinion a most impressive intro of the CSM6 to the EVE Community.
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Marconus Orion
S.E.G.W.A.Y.
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Posted - 2011.04.18 05:48:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Marconus Orion on 18/04/2011 05:48:53
Originally by: Lord Zim
Originally by: Draco Llasa
Originally by: Lord Zim Edited by: Lord Zim on 17/04/2011 07:38:16
Originally by: Marconus Orion Why do you list the anomaly change as a scandal?
Because Hilmar said there would be MORE communication about how things were going to change, and that anom nerf was deployed without communicating to any of the CSMs?
Yes, this is why it was labeled as a scandal, i believe it was covered in detail during The Mitanni's talk.
It was covered in detail during the mittani's talk (multiple times in fact, I believe). Marconus Orion is just one of Those Guys.
Forgive me for asking a simple question while at work instead of dropping everything I was doing to run off and connect to mumble hosted by goonswarm for a totally unbiased slant on the CSM where I get to hear all of the members and not just two hours of Mittani stroking himself.
Run-on sentence is a go!
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Helena Russell Makanen
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Posted - 2011.04.18 05:55:00 -
[42]
It was exactly what I thought it would be, mittens talking about mostly null sec issues (wonder why), glossing over anything difficult or contrary to his 'place' in the eve world with 'I don't know anything about that', insulting past CSM's, but mainly masturbating in front of a mirror as he listened to his own voice droning on and on and on and on and on.
Pro-Tip - when so many against you it's pretty stupid to hog the conversation 99% of the time. Yeah that showed real cohesion in the CSM. The only time anyone else got to speak was if mittens was clueless. Or on sucvh important matters as what sandwich they enjoyed in Iceland. Wow - that's sure important.
Wrong way to go about it dude. Chairman has certain responsibilities yes, but twisting that into making the CSM broadcast into the 'mittens show' was pretty damn dumb - and selfish.
If anyone is interested in how long mittens can dominate a broadcast - current record is 2 hours minus 1%. Am sure that record will be beaten in the next, or he will learn from this mistake. Hope so.
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mkint
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Posted - 2011.04.18 06:01:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Helena Russell Makanen Edited by: Helena Russell Makanen on 18/04/2011 05:57:43 It was exactly what I thought it would be, mittens talking about mostly null sec issues (wonder why), glossing over anything difficult or contrary to his 'place' in the eve world with 'I don't know anything about that', insulting past CSM's, but mainly masturbating in front of a mirror as he listened to his own voice droning on and on and on and on and on.
Pro-Tip - when so many against you it's pretty stupid to hog the conversation 99% of the time. Yeah that showed real cohesion in the CSM. The only time anyone else got to speak was if mittens was clueless. Or on such important matters as what sandwich they enjoyed in Iceland. Wow - that's sure important.
Wrong way to go about it dude. Chairman has certain responsibilities yes, but twisting that into making the CSM broadcast into the 'mittens show' was pretty damn dumb - and selfish.
If anyone is interested in how long mittens can dominate a broadcast - current record is 2 hours minus 1%. Am sure that record will be beaten in the next, or he will learn from this mistake. Hope so. My guess is he will learn, but not enough. Next go around they might get 2%.
They might get 2%, but the broadcast will run extra time to make sure mittens still gets his fill.
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Jacque Cruix
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Posted - 2011.04.18 06:24:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Draco Llasa
Originally by: Lord Zim Edited by: Lord Zim on 17/04/2011 07:38:16 Because Hilmar said there would be MORE communication about how things were going to change, and that anom nerf was deployed without communicating to any of the CSMs?
Yes, this is why it was labeled as a scandal, i believe it was covered in detail during The Mitanni's talk.
CCP doesn't need to tell the CSM everything and never should. Also,"more communication" doesn't mean "everything".
Trying to classify this as a scandal is rather petty and belittles the true scandals that have happened, which have been rather few in number.
This is just players trying to fan the flames to try and get what they want. Normally happens with unpopular changes
Such drama from the CSM will only marginalize it.
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Skah Seraph
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Posted - 2011.04.18 06:29:00 -
[45]
Lol at Mittens expounding on his speculations as to what "flavor" the Eve economist is. Is he old school "homo economocist"? Or more modern behavioral cognitive blah blah blah"?
Next. Oh wait no, someone else wanted to talk...
Just joshin' ya. It was a good talk and you guys cleared up some misconceptions I had
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mkint
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Posted - 2011.04.18 07:03:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Jacque Cruix
Originally by: Draco Llasa
Originally by: Lord Zim Edited by: Lord Zim on 17/04/2011 07:38:16 Because Hilmar said there would be MORE communication about how things were going to change, and that anom nerf was deployed without communicating to any of the CSMs?
Yes, this is why it was labeled as a scandal, i believe it was covered in detail during The Mitanni's talk.
CCP doesn't need to tell the CSM everything and never should. Also,"more communication" doesn't mean "everything".
Trying to classify this as a scandal is rather petty and belittles the true scandals that have happened, which have been rather few in number.
This is just players trying to fan the flames to try and get what they want. Normally happens with unpopular changes
Such drama from the CSM will only marginalize it.
The "scandal" about it is that CCP put the news up about it while people were on the airplanes to fanfest, refused to talk about it at fanfest, refuse to have any dialog about it after fanfest, and are ignoring even the legitimate questions and feedback. It's not really that CCP is making an unpopular decision so much as they trying to hide from that decision, and it possibly lying about the decision (depending on your favorite conspiracy theory.) In fact the devs in general appear to be laying low and on the defensive on the forums these past few weeks. I think most of the devs know that it was an absolutely stupid idea but some scrub made the change already and there aren't processes in place in the growing company for everybody to tell him how stupid he is.
"Scandal" may be a little bit strong of a word for the nerf itself. "Embarrassment" sounds more appropriate for the nerf itself, and "scandal" the way it was implemented.
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Caneb
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.18 08:24:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Skah Seraph Lol at Mittens expounding on his speculations as to what "flavor" the Eve economist is. Is he old school "homo economocist"? Or more modern behavioral cognitive blah blah blah"?
Just to be clear, Homo Economicus is not a gay joke as much as it sounds like it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_economicus :science:
In brief it's a theory in economic studies, based on humans being cold-headed rational beings who will always make the best decision that serves their own needs. Nowadays it's largely regarded as incorrect because humans in general are emptional, irrational and lack the macroeconomic insight to make the "best" decisions.
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Budsin Adar
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Posted - 2011.04.18 11:38:00 -
[48]
as for that file system it does not work on my computer make it easy okay
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VaMei
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.18 11:58:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Budsin Adar as for that file system it does not work on my computer make it easy okay
The "Download" botton is for Torrent users. If your old school like me, use the smaller direct download just below it. That'll give you an MP3.
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SmallIsaxx
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Posted - 2011.04.18 12:11:00 -
[50]
Remember guys, the CSM are people who either failed at life because they didn't realise that swearing is very unprofessional, or that making childish jokes is also rather unprofessional. Oh well, another failed CSM. The chairman takes command of the meeting but does not give anyone any room to speak. Either they don't have any education or they didn't pay any attention during their lectures.
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Sullen Skoung
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Posted - 2011.04.18 12:53:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Jacque Cruix which have been rather few in number.
lol ok...
But the ones they have are impressive Im guessing you ignore most of the things that go on in this game then -------- Dammit, they killed the post where Sreegs says personal attacks are against the rules. I wanted to lol at him for that |
Halycon Gamma
Caldari Training Ground Necromonger's
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 12:56:00 -
[52]
I like the idea of time dilation, but the lag I experienced in the only one I ever participated in has kept me away from them for years now.
I like the idea of a couple devs devoted to constant balance iteration of ships.
I agree feature abandonment is one of the biggest problems with Eve. Devs seem to treat features as the "theme parks" that other games use, build and forget. But we don't have theme parks in Eve, we have tools to play in the sandbox with; some of which are defective.
Documentation does need to be better, but I badly disagree with the idea of the ISK Book getting the attention it is. That stuff needs to be in game, or at least easily found on the Evelopedia. License, buy, or steal the thing and give it its own button on the neocom. I don't want to tell new players to go out and buy a book, or to download such and such PDF. I want to tell them "Click on that button, then go to this section." Until documentation is easily found without having to fire up google, its a fail.
I disagree greatly with the slant of all these issues by the CSM though. The number one problem with EvE is PVE. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the vast majority of EvE players are going to do some sort of PVE on a daily basis. Shoot a belt rat, do a mission, mine some ore, run a complex, something. Its almost inescapable to not do some form of PVE. Its the foundation for which all other things you do in EvE are built, in that it supplies you the isk to do them.
I've quit eve, came back, quit eve, came back, and I'll probably quit again. And its always for the exact same reasons that I quit. I do not want to slog through hours of unfun things to do a single hour of something fun.
The way it was glossed over in 4-5 minutes of "that's something far outside of anything which could be accomplished during our tenure" just aggravated me greatly.
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Rinah
STORM Squad
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 14:03:00 -
[53]
This is great. Very informative and funny listening to u guys.
This record should be properly promoted, explains very well what CSM is about and what u are trying to achieve. Because from the perspective of the casual player CSM looks like a bunch of mega corp/alliance leaders or representatives pushing their own agendas. And they are probably asking themselves why should i care what those guys have to say.
So rly i heard good things keep the good work.
P.S.
Originally by: SmallIsaxx Remember guys, the CSM are people who either failed at life because they didn't realise that swearing is very unprofessional, or that making childish jokes is also rather unprofessional. Oh well, another failed CSM. The chairman takes command of the meeting but does not give anyone any room to speak. Either they don't have any education or they didn't pay any attention during their lectures.
They are professional enough considering this is a computer game.
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Sullen Skoung
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 15:24:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Halycon Gamma
I agree feature abandonment is one of the biggest problems with Eve. Devs seem to treat features as the "theme parks" that other games use, build and forget. But we don't have theme parks in Eve, we have tools to play in the sandbox with; some of which are defective.
Ive always seen it like this;
They bring out a feature, see if ppl use it and decide if its worth putting time into the feature and ironing out the bugs, cause if most ppl dont use the feature, they dont see any reason to devote development cycles to it as noone uses it.
Not saying thats a good thing mind you, just the way they seem to handle such things. -------- Dammit, they killed the post where Sreegs says personal attacks are against the rules. I wanted to lol at him for that |
J Kunjeh
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 15:26:00 -
[55]
Edited by: J Kunjeh on 18/04/2011 15:26:51 I'm really happy to see the direction the CSM6 is headed in so far. More communication, more open channels, more of a sense of direction and seriousness about the job. Thanks for holding the fireside and posting it up.
But I do have to say that a whole lot more professionalism needs to be put in place. I don't mind the F-bombs and whatnot, but using the word "re-tarded" 100 times, schlong jokes, stupid comments about Jewish last names? Offensive and totally unnecessary. This isn't your alliance teamspeak. The CSM is a very public representation of the player base, please treat all public communications with a lot more professionalism.
~Gnosis~ |
Rinah
STORM Squad
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 15:45:00 -
[56]
IMO CSM work is voluntary they do not get paid, so they should act as they like with some borders. Can they have at least that? As i said above this is only a game. We have enough of the long speech boring kind of guys in the real world.
They are probably much more formal and considerate when communicating with CCP staff to represent us. Or am i wrong
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 15:56:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Rinah IMO CSM work is voluntary they do not get paid, so they should act as they like with some borders.
I'm not sure why the lack of pay is relevant. They took on a job that makes them representatives of 350k players in a very public way, and they should treat that position with respect and a level of professionalism that was lacking in many ways on this call.
~Gnosis~ |
J Kunjeh
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 15:58:00 -
[58]
Edited by: J Kunjeh on 18/04/2011 15:58:43 On another note, one thing I heard brought up over and over on the call is that CCP will not listen to "micro detail change suggestions". Can I ask, why not? Is it an ego thing amongst the game designers? I would think they'd be open to taking ideas and suggestions no matter how "micro" they are. I understand that the big picture suggestions are easier for them to digest and respond to, but ignoring all micro suggestions is just...lame.
~Gnosis~ |
Lord Zim
Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 15:58:00 -
[59]
Originally by: J Kunjeh
Originally by: Rinah IMO CSM work is voluntary they do not get paid, so they should act as they like with some borders.
I'm not sure why the lack of pay is relevant. They took on a job that makes them representatives of 350k players in a very public way, and they should treat that position with respect and a level of professionalism that was lacking in many ways on this call.
Unlike the misc rap songs CCP have made the past few years, with a peachy white and fat technoviking, or "the beer ship"?
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 16:01:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Lord Zim
Originally by: J Kunjeh
Originally by: Rinah IMO CSM work is voluntary they do not get paid, so they should act as they like with some borders.
I'm not sure why the lack of pay is relevant. They took on a job that makes them representatives of 350k players in a very public way, and they should treat that position with respect and a level of professionalism that was lacking in many ways on this call.
Unlike the misc rap songs CCP have made the past few years, with a peachy white and fat technoviking, or "the beer ship"?
Yeah, you have a point there, but this was a thread about the CSM's fireside chat, not CCP. I'm not saying it needs to be PG-13 or anything, I'm just fine with adult chat and humor, I just think that some of the discussion was more akin to listening to an alliance team speak and not really professional for a representative body.
~Gnosis~ |
|
Lord Zim
Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 16:05:00 -
[61]
Originally by: J Kunjeh Yeah, you have a point there, but this was a thread about the CSM's fireside chat, not CCP. I'm not saying it needs to be PG-13 or anything, I'm just fine with adult chat and humor, I just think that some of the discussion was more akin to listening to an alliance team speak and not really professional for a representative body.
So the CSM should be held to a higher standard than the playerbase (not particularly hard when 90% of local chat is in smsese or trolling) AND the company which makes and maintains the game and actually gets paid for it?
I'd have expected more professionalism from the company that makes the game, but I give no ****s if they prefer to be a bit more ~chill~ about it and not take themselves as seriously as an old lady with a whole broom up her backside.
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mkint
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 16:23:00 -
[62]
Originally by: J Kunjeh
On another note, one thing I heard brought up over and over on the call is that CCP will not listen to "micro detail change suggestions". Can I ask, why not?
I thought this one was pretty clear. It's not that CCP won't listen to these ideas. It's that these ideas just get added in to the black hole of a backlog which means "maybe someday if someone is bored enough and there isn't something else they'd rather do." CCP has bazillions of ideas on record for how to make things better, but they have nobody in place to work on them. The CSM has decided that it's a waste of time to just dump more ideas on the pile at this time, at least until CCP starts catching up with things.
Originally by: J Kunjeh
Originally by: Lord Zim
Originally by: J Kunjeh
Originally by: Rinah IMO CSM work is voluntary they do not get paid, so they should act as they like with some borders.
I'm not sure why the lack of pay is relevant. They took on a job that makes them representatives of 350k players in a very public way, and they should treat that position with respect and a level of professionalism that was lacking in many ways on this call.
Unlike the misc rap songs CCP have made the past few years, with a peachy white and fat technoviking, or "the beer ship"?
Yeah, you have a point there, but this was a thread about the CSM's fireside chat, not CCP. I'm not saying it needs to be PG-13 or anything, I'm just fine with adult chat and humor, I just think that some of the discussion was more akin to listening to an alliance team speak and not really professional for a representative body.
I kinda had mixed feelings about the lack of professionalism... on the one hand it was a never ending **** joke about how everybody in CSM, CCP, and Goon are gay for eachother and sucking eachother off (I'm not paraphrasing here.) On the other hand the impression that they all seem to get along (at least from the 30 seconds of people other than Mittens talking) is a positive thing. Although I betcha there are at least a couple guys on the CSM who sit there and quietly loathe Mittens and the joke he's making of the CSM.
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 16:26:00 -
[63]
Originally by: mkint
Originally by: J Kunjeh
On another note, one thing I heard brought up over and over on the call is that CCP will not listen to "micro detail change suggestions". Can I ask, why not?
I thought this one was pretty clear. It's not that CCP won't listen to these ideas. It's that these ideas just get added in to the black hole of a backlog which means "maybe someday if someone is bored enough and there isn't something else they'd rather do." CCP has bazillions of ideas on record for how to make things better, but they have nobody in place to work on them. The CSM has decided that it's a waste of time to just dump more ideas on the pile at this time, at least until CCP starts catching up with things.
And I understand that, I just feel that first should come the broad strokes kind of suggestions, but once CCP accepts on of those and decides to iterate on it, why wouldn't they want the micro ideas related to the broader subject?
~Gnosis~ |
garus banta
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 16:34:00 -
[64]
Come on guys a bittorent file?
Can't you just upload the mp3 to youtube?
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Yuki Kulotsuki
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 16:39:00 -
[65]
Originally by: garus banta I don't use eve-files
LaughingGirls.jpg -- Did you know there's an alliance who's name you're not allowed to say, or website you're not allowed to link? |
J Kunjeh
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 16:42:00 -
[66]
Gotta say, I really like the idea of getting ship iteration (and how about feature/expansion iteration too? FW anyone?) into CCP's process as a regular thing with dedicated dev's to support it consistently. This is one of the most important things CSM6 has in their plans, me thinks.
~Gnosis~ |
Lord Zim
Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 16:45:00 -
[67]
Originally by: J Kunjeh And I understand that, I just feel that first should come the broad strokes kind of suggestions, but once CCP accepts one of those and decides to iterate on it, why wouldn't they want the micro ideas related to the broader subject?
From my perspective, the problem is that this has been attempted, and it hasn't really gotten us anywhere. It's not like the backlog or the ideas are going to disappear just because they're pushing for there to be someone, anyone, to actually LOOK at the way the game is to play today and do regular tweaks instead of using a big-assed 5t hammer to bludgeon a change in.
Once that is in place, then the focus can shift back to ideas, but I wouldn't be surprised if that would be something for CSM7.
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mkint
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 16:45:00 -
[68]
Originally by: J Kunjeh Edited by: J Kunjeh on 18/04/2011 16:26:49
Originally by: mkint
Originally by: J Kunjeh
On another note, one thing I heard brought up over and over on the call is that CCP will not listen to "micro detail change suggestions". Can I ask, why not?
I thought this one was pretty clear. It's not that CCP won't listen to these ideas. It's that these ideas just get added in to the black hole of a backlog which means "maybe someday if someone is bored enough and there isn't something else they'd rather do." CCP has bazillions of ideas on record for how to make things better, but they have nobody in place to work on them. The CSM has decided that it's a waste of time to just dump more ideas on the pile at this time, at least until CCP starts catching up with things.
And I understand that, I just feel that first should come the broad strokes kind of suggestions, but once CCP accepts one of those and decides to iterate on it, why wouldn't they want the micro ideas related to the broader subject?
CCP has way more broad strokes plus micro ideas that they will ever be able to implement (especially since many of them are probably contradictory.) If they find they are short of micro ideas, they've got eyes and access to these forums, just like anybody else. It's a waste of time for the CSM to work on the little things (especially since CCP has a team that's already doing them.) Even if CSM were to focus on them, the work's already been done, and doing more work on it will not get it done sooner. I agree it's better for them to focus on getting processes into place that will get ideas implemented rather than championing specific ideas that will never get implemented.
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Mike deVoid
Firebird Squadron Terra-Incognita
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 16:47:00 -
[69]
Originally by: garus banta Come on guys a bittorent file?
Can't you just upload the mp3 to youtube?
There is a direct download link on that very same page. Finding it takes less time than it did for you to login and post your message. How ******ed are you? -----
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Sullen Skoung
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 16:52:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 18/04/2011 16:53:33
Originally by: J Kunjeh Edited by: J Kunjeh on 18/04/2011 15:26:51 I'm really happy to see the direction the CSM6 is headed in so far. More communication, more open channels, more of a sense of direction and seriousness about the job. Thanks for holding the fireside and posting it up.
But I do have to say that a whole lot more professionalism needs to be put in place. I don't mind the F-bombs and whatnot, but using the word "re-tarded" 100 times, schlong jokes, stupid comments about Jewish last names? Offensive and totally unnecessary. This isn't your alliance teamspeak. The CSM is a very public representation of the player base, please treat all public communications with a lot more professionalism.
one: youre asking for professionalism from a Goon. One that most people seem to have voted in because "either he'll fix the game or burn it down"
Originally by: J Kunjeh
Originally by: Rinah IMO CSM work is voluntary they do not get paid, so they should act as they like with some borders.
I'm not sure why the lack of pay is relevant. They took on a job that makes them representatives of 350k players in a very public way, and they should treat that position with respect and a level of professionalism that was lacking in many ways on this call.
In before "its internet spaceships" -------- Dammit, they killed the post where Sreegs says personal attacks are against the rules. I wanted to lol at him for that |
|
ceaon
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 17:44:00 -
[71]
Originally by: garus banta Come on guys a bittorent file?
Can't you just upload the mp3 to youtube?
sir you are a very stupid eve character
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
If the whole country is corrupted then it's no longer corruption but culture.
|
boeboe joe
Helix Commonwealth Command
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 22:51:00 -
[72]
I really like that idea for having more scrum teams for broad topics that continually need improvement, stuff like feature advancement not abandonment, game balancing (hybrids, dreads, moon goo, etc.), and the NPE (new player experience) I also LOVE the idea for a redesigned noob ship! Team Gridlock and Team BFF, if your reading this, good work guys I personally know many players appreciate your hard work. ---------------------------------------------- "The Original French Redneck from Space."tm ---------------------------------------------- |
Gallell
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 23:19:00 -
[73]
It was a nice session to listen to, I liked it. --------
-G- |
Garrance
|
Posted - 2011.04.19 03:38:00 -
[74]
So the options are 'old lady with a whole broom up her backside' or far too many f*bombs, '****** jokes' and using 'gay' as a punch-line and making fun of Jewish sounding names? Good to know - thanks for educating us all. It was childish profanity for no reason other than to try to look cool, or an inability to be professional. Sorry posting that crap in an alliance channel is one thing, doing it as a CSM offical chat quite another. Remember people have families, my niece heard part of it before I could muffle it - which was the last thing I thought I would need to do. NOT professional.
Originally by: Lord Zim
So the CSM should be held to a higher standard than the playerbase (not particularly hard when 90% of local chat is in smsese or trolling) AND the company which makes and maintains the game and actually gets paid for it?
I'd have expected more professionalism from the company that makes the game, but I give no ****s if they prefer to be a bit more ~chill~ about it and not take themselves as seriously as an old lady with a whole broom up her backside.
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The Mittani
|
Posted - 2011.04.19 03:41:00 -
[75]
Originally by: J Kunjeh Edited by: J Kunjeh on 18/04/2011 15:58:43 On another note, one thing I heard brought up over and over on the call is that CCP will not listen to "micro detail change suggestions". Can I ask, why not? Is it an ego thing amongst the game designers? I would think they'd be open to taking ideas and suggestions no matter how "micro" they are. I understand that the big picture suggestions are easier for them to digest and respond to, but ignoring all micro suggestions is just...lame.
This is a very good question and it's key to understanding the CCP/CSM dynamic.
Game Designers aren't interested in letting players do their job for them. Like I said during the campaign, the CSM is a feedback group and advocacy group, not a team of amateur game designers.
Devs will accept macro-level suggestions ('farms and fields in nullsec, iterative ship balance, stop abandoning features') and smile and nod and ignore micro-level suggestions ('tweak blaster tracking 15%'). That's just how it works. You persuade people by speaking to them in a language they'll accept and understand.
That said, BFF is full of 'micro issues'. The important thing to consider is that we have BFF because it was a macro-level suggestion ('iterate on all these little forgotten issues') which was implemented, not because each of the thousand papercuts were individually advocated.
That's why CSM6 is interested in "Ship Balance Iteration" as a macro issue: put a dedicated team or a couple of devs on Ship Balance constantly, rather than pushing out overnerfs or overbuffs every year or two, randomly. Tackling the macro issues covers a wider range of micro issues.
From a certain perspective it's a strategic choice on CSM6's part, one that you might not agree with. But that's our perspective.
The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
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Stahlregen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.04.19 03:47:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Garrance So the options are 'old lady with a whole broom up her backside' or far too many f*bombs, '****** jokes' and using 'gay' as a punch-line and making fun of Jewish sounding names? Good to know - thanks for educating us all. It was childish profanity for no reason other than to try to look cool, or an inability to be professional. Sorry posting that crap in an alliance channel is one thing, doing it as a CSM offical chat quite another. Remember people have families, my niece heard part of it before I could muffle it - which was the last thing I thought I would need to do. NOT professional.
Originally by: Lord Zim
So the CSM should be held to a higher standard than the playerbase (not particularly hard when 90% of local chat is in smsese or trolling) AND the company which makes and maintains the game and actually gets paid for it?
I'd have expected more professionalism from the company that makes the game, but I give no ****s if they prefer to be a bit more ~chill~ about it and not take themselves as seriously as an old lady with a whole broom up her backside.
You're a p terrible troll duder. Here, check it.
Originally by: Draco Llasa
You can download the audio file here -> http://eve-files.com/dl/241557 File Size is approx 50 MB Length is about 2 hours Explicit Language
Originally by: Draco Llasa
File Size is approx 50 MB Length is about 2 hours Explicit Language
Originally by: Draco Llasa
Explicit Language
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Garrance
|
Posted - 2011.04.19 03:59:00 -
[77]
No I am not a troll, I admit I missed the 'warning' as who would expect such a thing from the CSM? A fail on my part (and others) as it was so unexpected. Guess my point was, in case you missed it, it wasn't appropriate. However kudos to a goon covering for a goon. So rare in this channel. Soon the channel will be nothing but goons and you can be happy... at the expense of CSM appearing valid.
Originally by: Stahlregen
You're a p terrible troll duder. Here, check it.
Originally by: Draco Llasa
You can download the audio file here -> http://eve-files.com/dl/241557 File Size is approx 50 MB Length is about 2 hours Explicit Language
|
The Mittani
|
Posted - 2011.04.19 04:58:00 -
[78]
if you think the csm isn't valid because i say '****', there's no hope for you anyway vOv
The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.04.19 09:32:00 -
[79]
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: J Kunjeh Edited by: J Kunjeh on 18/04/2011 15:58:43 On another note, one thing I heard brought up over and over on the call is that CCP will not listen to "micro detail change suggestions". Can I ask, why not? Is it an ego thing amongst the game designers? I would think they'd be open to taking ideas and suggestions no matter how "micro" they are. I understand that the big picture suggestions are easier for them to digest and respond to, but ignoring all micro suggestions is just...lame.
This is a very good question and it's key to understanding the CCP/CSM dynamic.
Game Designers aren't interested in letting players do their job for them. Like I said during the campaign, the CSM is a feedback group and advocacy group, not a team of amateur game designers.
Devs will accept macro-level suggestions ('farms and fields in nullsec, iterative ship balance, stop abandoning features') and smile and nod and ignore micro-level suggestions ('tweak blaster tracking 15%'). That's just how it works. You persuade people by speaking to them in a language they'll accept and understand.
That said, BFF is full of 'micro issues'. The important thing to consider is that we have BFF because it was a macro-level suggestion ('iterate on all these little forgotten issues') which was implemented, not because each of the thousand papercuts were individually advocated.
That's why CSM6 is interested in "Ship Balance Iteration" as a macro issue: put a dedicated team or a couple of devs on Ship Balance constantly, rather than pushing out overnerfs or overbuffs every year or two, randomly. Tackling the macro issues covers a wider range of micro issues.
From a certain perspective it's a strategic choice on CSM6's part, one that you might not agree with. But that's our perspective.
I definitely understand it as a strategy for the CSM, I was only wondering why it seems that CCP is totally against even considering micro suggestions from the CSM/playerbase. Reading these forums, there are some very good micro suggestions that CCP should be at least taking into account when they go to iterate on existing mechanics/features.
All told, I support what CSM6 is aiming for and I hope it works!
~Gnosis~ |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2011.04.19 09:48:00 -
[80]
Originally by: The Mittani if you think the csm isn't valid because i say '****', there's no hope for you anyway vOv
THIS is why I voted
troll proof <3
|
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Halycon Gamma
Caldari Training Ground Necromonger's
|
Posted - 2011.04.19 09:50:00 -
[81]
Originally by: J Kunjeh
I was only wondering why it seems that CCP is totally against even considering micro suggestions from the CSM/playerbase.
A good example of why is during the threadnaught on rockets. There was a formula which we, the players, thought missile damage is derived from. We knew it wasn't "The Official Formula", but from testing it was close enough in results that we pretty much took it as more or less the way it worked.
We posted pages and pages of discussion on rockets based on that formula. There were pros and cons of tweaking it this way and that. Discussions on if the recipe was completely stupid and if we needed to move from Coke to New Coke. People spent hours thinking over that formula.
So a couple years pass, CCP finally announces "We're fixing rockets!". And tucked in that little announcement, deep in the forums, was a little tidbit saying the formula we'd been working off of is nothing like what's actually on the server.
A lot of time, as players, we work from knowledge we think is true. But it actually isn't.
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Strazdas Unstoppable
|
Posted - 2011.04.19 14:25:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Strazdas Unstoppable on 19/04/2011 14:26:57
Originally by: garus banta Come on guys a bittorent file?
Can't you just upload the mp3 to youtube?
Maybe its time to learn to use the most efffective file sharing way?
Now this was their first session, and its not like they are going to give you explicit detail for 2 hours. they would run out of things to speak the next month. Sure it could have covered more facts. afterall this is a sort of CSM report to the general public, but CSM are people like you and me.
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Carlos82
Minmatar United Systems Navy Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2011.04.19 15:17:00 -
[83]
Just checking in to say this was very informative and that the CSM has my support. A Fireside chat like this is a very good way to reach lots of people who'd otherwise only really notice the CSM's presence around election time. Mittani did speak like 80-90% of the time (especially later in the Q&A session more of the other CSM were talking), maybe to avoid controversy a bit the others should get more speaking time too.
The macro approach seems like the best way to use the CSM¦s arguably limited resources. Good to see CCP Veritas is picking up on the Time Dilation thing, let¦s see where it goes. Anyways.. Keep up the good work, I'm so far content with how I voted :) o/ |
Mike deVoid
Firebird Squadron Terra-Incognita
|
Posted - 2011.04.19 15:43:00 -
[84]
Can I suggest a the production of a variety of signatures people can used to visibly support the CSM in every post they make. Obviously, different flavours should be make available ;). -----
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William Pullman
|
Posted - 2011.04.19 18:27:00 -
[85]
I listened to it today, pretty good. Very positive. I like the approach this CSM is taking.
One small request though - please cut down on the profanity!
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Merouk Baas
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.04.19 23:13:00 -
[86]
That was very good.
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Sullen Skoung
|
Posted - 2011.04.20 03:37:00 -
[87]
Originally by: The Mittani if you think the csm isn't valid because i say '****', there's no hope for you anyway vOv
invalid argument, the CSM was invalid before you said **** -------- Dammit, they killed the post where Sreegs says personal attacks are against the rules. I wanted to lol at him for that |
Celtic Deamon
Caldari Stellae Fixae One Power
|
Posted - 2011.04.20 16:38:00 -
[88]
I'm quite happy with Mittins talking most of the time. Rather you hate him or like him, he is a figure that people recognize almost instantly.People who want the other CSM members to talk, I'm sure that can be arranged in following chats, for for this one let it go.
As for professionalism, if being gay for each other and making **** jokes gets to job done and even gets talks with CCP to open up, go for it. Did it work? No? Blow it up. Did it work? Yes? Blow it up anyways. |
rantuket
Caldari SPORADIC MOVEMENT Merciless.
|
Posted - 2011.04.21 01:23:00 -
[89]
Thanks for putting this up and going to the effort of getting this organised in the first place.
Having a listen now.
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Mrs Trzzbk
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.21 02:48:00 -
[90]
Originally by: William Pullman
One small request though - please cut down on the profanity!
Never.
Also all of your credit for the greatness of the Q&A session, give it to me. GIVE IT TO ME. _________________________________________________________ Trust me, I'm a Spacebert. |
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Dalketh
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Posted - 2011.04.21 04:15:00 -
[91]
You have to be joking, profanity and insults is 'getting talks with CCP to open up'??? I can't even follow the logic of that so I am guessing there is no use asking for stats on that lol. That is perhaps the dumbest thing I have read on the forums ever... so I guess some congrats to you are in order.
Originally by: Celtic Deamon As for professionalism, if being gay for each other and making **** jokes gets to job done and even gets talks with CCP to open up, go for it.
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Celtic Deamon
Caldari Stellae Fixae One Power
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Posted - 2011.04.21 13:58:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Dalketh You have to be joking, profanity and insults is 'getting talks with CCP to open up'??? I can't even follow the logic of that so I am guessing there is no use asking for stats on that lol. That is perhaps the dumbest thing I have read on the forums ever... so I guess some congrats to you are in order.
I'm just saying your asking a bunch of people who obviously like to joke around to be serious. One more thing, have you seen how CCP presents themselves? I'm sure they goof around and do the same things this CSM does around the office.
Any company that holds a Fanfest where socialbility and alcohol are the rules of the day, can sit down a be childish for a few hours while talking about issues that could possibly make the game better. Did it work? No? Blow it up. Did it work? Yes? Blow it up anyways. |
Sidrat Flush
Caldari Vannbros Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.04.21 14:41:00 -
[93]
If profanity is being used as an emotive tag because of the passionate believe held in the opinion it's not a bad thing, as long as the major point comes across and the profanity and goofiness doesn't drown that out then it's all good.
Even Devs want to kick back and relax occasionally even when it comes to serious business that is the CSM.
When it comes to the first meeting in Iceland though they should temper the profanity and use it when it's absolutely required. Call out BS when you see it, but do it with a valid and weighty argument as to WHY you think it's BS.
The Mittani's voice is good and he knows it, so he uses it as often as possible.
View The Eve Industrial Organiser Site
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Elyssa MacLeod
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Posted - 2011.04.21 15:23:00 -
[94]
In before its internet spaceships and pixels an youre freaking out over cussing
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Dirk Decibel
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Posted - 2011.04.22 14:43:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Draco Llasa
Originally by: Dirk Decibel
Originally by: CCP Manifest Temporarily moved to General Discussion for more... discussion...
This is one of the main reasons you can never find CSM info. Cuz it's in the wrong place. A noob who has just figured out that the CSM section on the eve main page is utter crap and that he needs to visit the forums where there is a specific CSM section will now NOT find this thread there....
Being completely oblivious of it's existance, he will prolly never see it....
Maybe try checking first... When CCP Manifest moved the thread he left a reference to it so it actually is posted in the right place, and its posted here too (for a few weeks) http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1498031
Moving threads around still doesn't make it any clearer for the noob. Having a sticky that says "Fireside Chat thread" with zero replies is not going to make the impression of a lively discussion. Decreasing the chance of anyone clicking on it.
CSM communication is horrible, to find out what they are doing you need to dig and dig.
Noob comes to EVE online site, if he finds the CSM menu on that page to begin with, he will find there is little of interest in it. Then they might make it to the forums only to have to keep being rerouted to a section of the forum that is NOT meant for the CSM.
The best way to find out what the **** the CSM is doing is to listen to an audio file that is NOT hosted in the place that is supposed to be informing you about the CSM.
You can slice that anyway you want, it's bad communication, period.
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Frozen Anya
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Posted - 2011.04.23 02:25:00 -
[96]
Fantastic. This needs to be kept up.
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Time Funnel
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Posted - 2011.04.28 21:52:00 -
[97]
Originally by: J Kunjeh Edited by: J Kunjeh on 18/04/2011 15:58:43 On another note, one thing I heard brought up over and over on the call is that CCP will not listen to "micro detail change suggestions". Can I ask, why not? Is it an ego thing amongst the game designers? I would think they'd be open to taking ideas and suggestions no matter how "micro" they are. I understand that the big picture suggestions are easier for them to digest and respond to, but ignoring all micro suggestions is just...lame.
Welcome to EVE. May your stay here be fruitful.
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Consortium Agent
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Posted - 2011.04.29 02:41:00 -
[98]
Let's see here... nullsec, nullsec, nullsec... oh, nullsec, more nullsec, don't know d*ck about empire, nullsec, nullsec, nullsec.
I see CSM6 has continued to focus on things that will make the game fun for them and gingerly stepped over all the things that the player base has supported for years.
As for CCP using CSM6 as a marketing ploy for pushing 'Time Dilation' as a massively player supported initiative which CSM6 has made their primary focus... well, at least someone has made Mittens and gang their *****. Kudos CCP.
Now, having said all that... anyone else still concerned that the only things being represented by CSM6 are things that will benefit nullsec citizens more than anyone else?
I mean, seriously... more farms in null? The billions of ISK and fleet of titans you jackoffs build from the bots you run getting to be too little for you? Oh wait - or is it the slam you are all taking from Sreegs putting the cork on the kettle? Bahaha. More farms in null. Yeah, that's the problem with Eve... not enough ISK being fielded to bot running alliances. WTF.
Cap/super cap balancing... let me guess, you don't like the sub-cap nerf, right? You think you really ought to be able to sit in a 1.0 empire space with some kind of uber god mode type ship and just f*ck everybody in the *ss, right? That would be uber fun wouldn't it? FFS.
Ship Iteration (or, how to make sub-cap ships more like cap ships for our nullsec battles). About the only thing that would trickle down to empire.
So, Mittens gets to yap and yap and yap and yap about, frankly, some of the most inane topics and how he plans to improve CSM/CCP relations (bahahahaha, yer funny) and push macro topics to CCP because developers don't like to be told about the small stuff. Wow, you are so f*cking far off from the truth it isn't even funny. Developers are *all about the details*. But you wouldn't know that, would you Mittens? You've made your claim to fame in a MMORPG. hahaha.
Anyway, this is just more dribble from the nullsec alliances who feel they should pretty much all have GM powers and own everything and everybody else in the game. If any of them had any real interest in the evolution of the game they'd be pushing for iteration on things that matter to everybody, not just the sh*t that pains them in nullsec and would give them even more advantage than they already have.
Nope, still not impressed with CSM6. My votes didn't go to Mittens to begin with - they went to someone I actually thought might be able to communicate with CCP. Though that person is on the CSM, I've not heard *one GD word* from them since. Not in forums, not in the fireside chat - nowhere. I guess mittens was busy slurping down a bunch of hard on's to keep everyone else at bay. An entire group of sell outs.
Screw you goons and all you other useless and clueless twits on the CSM. Your efforts will be laudable and wholly unimplemented. Same as CSM5, CSM4, etc. You're nothing more than a marketing and mouth piece for CCP, so just get over yourselves. Macro topics hahaha... I believe when we developers meet people like you in real life, we label you either 'f*cking lazy' or 'clueless'. In CSM6's case, I'll go with clueless.
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2011.04.29 07:20:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Consortium Agent
Now, having said all that... anyone else still concerned that the only things being represented by CSM6 are things that will benefit nullsec citizens more than anyone else?
Yes, lots of people are, in all these threads.
Notably, none of them seems to have won election.
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Adrian Idaho
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Posted - 2011.04.29 07:26:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Consortium Agent Let's see here... nullsec, nullsec, nullsec... oh, nullsec, more nullsec, don't know d*ck about empire, nullsec, nullsec, nullsec.
I see CSM6 has continued to focus on things that will make the game fun for them and gingerly stepped over all the things that the player base has supported for years.
As for CCP using CSM6 as a marketing ploy for pushing 'Time Dilation' as a massively player supported initiative which CSM6 has made their primary focus... well, at least someone has made Mittens and gang their *****. Kudos CCP.
Now, having said all that... anyone else still concerned that the only things being represented by CSM6 are things that will benefit nullsec citizens more than anyone else?
I mean, seriously... more farms in null? The billions of ISK and fleet of titans you jackoffs build from the bots you run getting to be too little for you? Oh wait - or is it the slam you are all taking from Sreegs putting the cork on the kettle? Bahaha. More farms in null. Yeah, that's the problem with Eve... not enough ISK being fielded to bot running alliances. WTF.
Cap/super cap balancing... let me guess, you don't like the sub-cap nerf, right? You think you really ought to be able to sit in a 1.0 empire space with some kind of uber god mode type ship and just f*ck everybody in the *ss, right? That would be uber fun wouldn't it? FFS.
Ship Iteration (or, how to make sub-cap ships more like cap ships for our nullsec battles). About the only thing that would trickle down to empire.
So, Mittens gets to yap and yap and yap and yap about, frankly, some of the most inane topics and how he plans to improve CSM/CCP relations (bahahahaha, yer funny) and push macro topics to CCP because developers don't like to be told about the small stuff. Wow, you are so f*cking far off from the truth it isn't even funny. Developers are *all about the details*. But you wouldn't know that, would you Mittens? You've made your claim to fame in a MMORPG. hahaha.
Anyway, this is just more dribble from the nullsec alliances who feel they should pretty much all have GM powers and own everything and everybody else in the game. If any of them had any real interest in the evolution of the game they'd be pushing for iteration on things that matter to everybody, not just the sh*t that pains them in nullsec and would give them even more advantage than they already have.
Nope, still not impressed with CSM6. My votes didn't go to Mittens to begin with - they went to someone I actually thought might be able to communicate with CCP. Though that person is on the CSM, I've not heard *one GD word* from them since. Not in forums, not in the fireside chat - nowhere. I guess mittens was busy slurping down a bunch of hard on's to keep everyone else at bay. An entire group of sell outs.
Screw you goons and all you other useless and clueless twits on the CSM. Your efforts will be laudable and wholly unimplemented. Same as CSM5, CSM4, etc. You're nothing more than a marketing and mouth piece for CCP, so just get over yourselves. Macro topics hahaha... I believe when we developers meet people like you in real life, we label you either 'f*cking lazy' or 'clueless'. In CSM6's case, I'll go with clueless.
Too obvious. 2/10 (1 for effort, 1 for at least pretending to have listened to the talk)
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Consortium Agent
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Posted - 2011.04.29 11:23:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Adrian Idaho Too obvious. 2/10 (1 for effort, 1 for at least pretending to have listened to the talk)
lol. Spoken like a nullsec alt. It pains you folks when someone intelligent enough to read between the lines and see what the CSM is really all about sez something, doesn't it? lol.
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Falin Whalen
Gallente GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.04 17:45:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Consortium Agent
Originally by: Adrian Idaho Too obvious. 2/10 (1 for effort, 1 for at least pretending to have listened to the talk)
lol. Spoken like a nullsec alt. It pains you folks when someone intelligent enough to read between the lines and see what the CSM is really all about sez something, doesn't it? lol.
Keep buying that tinfoil, you need to add more to your hat.
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Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2011.05.05 16:23:00 -
[103]
I haven't listened to it but it looks like allot of ôgame design issuesö were brought up.
I'm sure Mittani repeated the same line over and over again "CSM has nothing to do with being a game designer..." and itÆs only the other liar candidates who claimed that. IÆm sure he didnÆt comment as some sort of ôlol amateur game designerö so IÆm sure there wasnÆt much to hear.
IÆm interested in hearing how he fulfilled his promise to be "ruthless, manipulative bastard"
I'm also surprised that there wasn't a section on CCP's ômanagerial techniqueö and the pros and cons of ccpÆs ôflavor of the monthö scrum team set up. After all we voted for you because you correctly identified this was your ômost serious concernö facing the csm.
Originally by: The Mittani
A few pages back I mentioned my concern that the issue might be one of managerial technique, since based on some of what I've heard from past CSMs, CCP doesn't appear to have any real best practices system at the coding level. This might have something to do with the reliance on the flavor of the month scrum/agile setup.
There might also be some issues with institutional memory or lack thereof since the firm has expanded massively in the past two years. People like Oveur and Torfi have been there for ages, but there's a lot of mid-level newdevs who have only been kicking around for a year tops.
This is my most serious concern, that all of this - the backlogs, the bugs, the half-implemented features, the schizophrenic development cycle - is a symptom of a hidden disease. That the reason why the CSMs have only gotten a few peripheral things done is that the underlying causes haven't been identified or dealt with.
In which case it's a 'simple matter' (heavy sarcasm, for those who do not understand scare quotes) of diagnosing the methods by which the dev teams interact and communicate (or don't) best practices and focus attention on that.
Please do focus attention on that. By all means advise CCP how their dev teams should be interacting and communicating with each other. That way this managerial disease that causes the backlogs, bugs, half implemented features and schizophrenic development can stop. Can we have that added to your summit topics?
IÆm sure not only CCP and us players but the entire MMO world are waiting, with bated breath, for you to give a critique of CCPÆs managerial process and what their best practices should be. After all IÆm sure that since you practiced law in a real life law firm for a few months you are highly qualified to do this.
Please stop wasting time on these game design issues! ôlolamatuergamedesignerö Get to the underlying problem of CCPÆs management structure ASAP!
After all we voted you in because we read and agreed with your platform. We did *not* vote you in because we are pathetic drones lacking even that slight sense of independence and self-worth required to vote for someone other than our internet spaceship alliance leader. Again that was *not* the case. No no no. Not the case at all.
So please write up a memo to all the CCP executives staff telling them how the devs at ccp are supposed to communicate from here on out!
-Cearain
Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1 |
SkinSin
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Posted - 2011.06.06 18:27:00 -
[104]
Ok. It's 10 days short of 2 months now. Is there any chance of getting a transcript of this?
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SkinSin
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Posted - 2011.06.28 18:27:00 -
[105]
Another request for written minutes of this and I'm starting to feel that the people who represent me to CCP are starting to let me down.
Let me repeat. I am deaf. I cannot listen to this recording. You mentioned that a transcript might follow, but don't appear to have followed up on. I feel like I am being left out...
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