EVE Search - Nightmare is dissapointing...

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Nightmare is dissapointing...

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Vincent Doroth	Posted - 2011.04.21 18:13:00 - [1] [Nightmare, Nightmare] (Low) Tracking Enhancer II Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink (Med) Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer Gist B-type XL Shield Booster Photon Scattering Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heavy Cap Booster II (800 Charges) (High) Tachyon Beam Laser II (Imperial Navy Multi) Tachyon Beam Laser II (Imperial Navy Multi) Tachyon Beam Laser II (Imperial Navy Multi) Tachyon Beam Laser II (Imperial Navy Multi) Drone Link Augmentor I Small Tractor Beam I (Rigs) Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I (Drones) Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Just under 1k dps at the guns w/o implants. 15mins cap just firing 3mins of cap shield boosting Stable at 60% with booster eating 800s ------ Now, with all that listed, i've gotta say this ship just disspoints me as a "step up," from the paladin. First and foremost, cap managment is just plain annoying on some missions, espcially if there's a stray neut'er. Secondly, it's just as slow as my paladin. In-fact it's effectively slower because unlike my paladin I can't opt to drop a hardener on most missions for an AB. Overall it completes missions marginally faster than my paladin (the ones where I get to make use of tach range) and feels much less sturdy. I suppose with a good crystal set the tank could be propped up a bit, but i'm a ***** for +5's and training times so I won't be doing that. What do other NM pilots think about the ship? Frankly, with another alt running a mach (with fewer support skills I might add) i'm completely dissapointed. Not that the NM doesn't have immense gank, but I don't find it worth the trade-off.
Demolishar	Posted - 2011.04.21 18:34:00 - [2] Get faction guns. Less cap use. MUCH less.
McRoll Minmatar Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.04.21 18:34:00 - [3] The Nightmare is in no way a "step up" from the Paladin, thats all. The annoying thing is that in the forums, there are many people who claim to know how to fit and fly ships but either have never sat in a marauder or fail at fittings. This is why many claim the faction BS are better than marauders. Well, they arent. Or maybe in only specific circumstances where you dont salvage and count every couple of DPS. But overall, marauders have nearly the same damage (except Kronos) and better tanks as well as the ability to salvage on the go, which makes them better PvE ships (I'm disregarding dualboxing there). If you compare 2 decent fits from Nightmare and Pally, you will realize that they have exactly the same damage output and nearly the same range. The difference is the Nightmares tracking bonus (which is not really needed given the ranges you fight against Sansha) vs Pallys web bonus (which is not really needed as well). What remains is the fact that the Pally is easier on cap through its armor tanking and overall better resists. Oh and the Pally looks way way better
Kneebone K-H Light Industries	Posted - 2011.04.21 18:37:00 - [4] I wanna say about half the missions I use my Nightmare for I don't even need to boost the shield or just have to pulse it once every now and then. Plus I have an AB! I'm guessing you are not doing proper agro management. It could just be that the purpose of your life is to server as a warning to others.
Vincent Doroth	Posted - 2011.04.21 18:50:00 - [5] Edited by: Vincent Doroth on 21/04/2011 18:50:57 Originally by: Demolishar Get faction guns. Less cap use. MUCH less. And make the ship even more of a halariously overpriced loot pinata while also reducing its dps? No thanks. Originally by: McRoll The Nightmare is in no way a "step up" from the Paladin, thats all. The annoying thing is that in the forums, there are many people who claim to know how to fit and fly ships but either have never sat in a marauder or fail at fittings. This is why many claim the faction BS are better than marauders. Well, they arent. Or maybe in only specific circumstances where you dont salvage and count every couple of DPS. But overall, marauders have nearly the same damage (except Kronos) and better tanks as well as the ability to salvage on the go, which makes them better PvE ships (I'm disregarding dualboxing there). If you compare 2 decent fits from Nightmare and Pally, you will realize that they have exactly the same damage output and nearly the same range. The difference is the Nightmares tracking bonus (which is not really needed given the ranges you fight against Sansha) vs Pallys web bonus (which is not really needed as well). What remains is the fact that the Pally is easier on cap through its armor tanking and overall better resists. Oh and the Pally looks way way better Agreed. Originally by: Kneebone I wanna say about half the missions I use my Nightmare for I don't even need to boost the shield or just have to pulse it once every now and then. Plus I have an AB! I'm guessing you are not doing proper agro management. 1. Post your fit or gtfo. 2. I've been a proper carebear for many years, i'm not sloppy with triggers.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2011.04.21 19:03:00 - [6] Originally by: Vincent Doroth 2. I've been a proper carebear for many years, i'm not sloppy with triggers. I find this statement odd, because I have never paid attention to triggers. And that was before I started flying my paladin? Now I just shoot everything until its dead and move on. DPS in 99.9% of missions really is weaksauce.
Vincent Doroth	Posted - 2011.04.21 19:05:00 - [7] Originally by: Sader Rykane Originally by: Vincent Doroth 2. I've been a proper carebear for many years, i'm not sloppy with triggers. I find this statement odd, because I have never paid attention to triggers. And that was before I started flying my paladin? Now I just shoot everything until its dead and move on. DPS in 99.9% of missions really is weaksauce. I would dearly love to see you do this in sansha/angel wc rm2 with overseer.
WhiteWarp Amarr Lone Star Exploration	Posted - 2011.04.21 21:00:00 - [8] My fit is almost exactly the same. The only differences are that I use 3x CCC and I use a faction afterburner in place of the cap booster. I don't have cap problems on most missions. There are a couple that I will switch the AB out for the cap booster where wave after wave hit you and you don't really need to move. What kind of skills are you working with? If you don't have pretty much maxed out cap skills, including controlled bursts, you may need to go with the faction guns as suggested. Personally, I prefer the tech 2 guns added damage. Stuff should be dying so fast that you don't need your shield booster in most missions.
Vincent Doroth	Posted - 2011.04.21 21:08:00 - [9] My related skills are at V. Care to show your fit?
WhiteWarp Amarr Lone Star Exploration	Posted - 2011.04.21 21:28:00 - [10] Edited by: WhiteWarp on 21/04/2011 21:30:52 This is the fit that I use, with a true sansha heavy cap booster in place of the afterburner for a few missions where it makes better sense. I do not use this ship against Angels. Just in case you're going to ask: The 4th heat sink being tech 2 instead of faction costs me 7 DPS. The auto targeter is for speed killing small ships faster. 10 max locked targets makes a difference. I do not actually turn that module on. The x-type thermal hardener is not very expensive and saves a tiny bit of cap while giving better resists. Easily worth it in my opinion (about 50 mil). With AB and shield booster off, I have over 7 minutes of cap. With both modules active - 1 minute and 9 seconds. In my opinion, a drone link augmentor is fairly useless given the nature of how the ships works. I might put them on a larger ship to eat away at it while I kill all of the smaller ones, but it makes the point that it's hardly worth the time pretty strongly when the ship I set them on is only half dead by the time I target it, and it drops in one shot. They're mainly there if I mess up and let something small get inside my tracking ability. [Nightmare, Beam Nightmare X-L Booster] Tracking Enhancer II Heat Sink II Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner Photon Scattering Field II Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster Gist X-Type Heat Dissipation Field Photon Scattering Field II Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Auto Targeting System II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Warrior II x5 Hammerhead II x5
Vincent Doroth	Posted - 2011.04.21 21:32:00 - [11] Edited by: Vincent Doroth on 21/04/2011 21:33:17 Bleh, I assumed there would be a and x-type bling on there. Sure, I can afford it, but god it's embarassing to have that on a pve ship.
WhiteWarp Amarr Lone Star Exploration	Posted - 2011.04.21 21:47:00 - [12] Edited by: WhiteWarp on 21/04/2011 21:53:51 Oh, look up the prices. The X-type hardener is worth less money than that extra faction heat sink you put on your ship. And the Pith booster is much less cap efficient than your choice. Your b-type costs almost 3 times as much. Your comment doesn't make a lot of sense. My fit is a few hundred million cheaper.
Straight Edged	Posted - 2011.04.21 21:53:00 - [13] Your mistake is thinking that nightmare is an upgrade from paladin. The paladin has as much dps as the nightmare. No matter how much dps your nightmare have, i can fit a paladin that can do lv 4 with at least as much dps WHile having tractor bonus, a huge cap bonus, traded for a seemingly useless tracking bonus
Vincent Doroth	Posted - 2011.04.21 21:55:00 - [14] Your fit comes pretty close to a billion above mine and your cap life according to my eft is around the same, defense only a tiny bit higher. Perhaps I need another couple weeks of using the NM to become accustomed to it, but after the first two weeks i'm just not impressed.
WhiteWarp Amarr Lone Star Exploration	Posted - 2011.04.21 21:58:00 - [15] Originally by: Vincent Doroth Your fit comes pretty close to a billion above mine That sounds completely made up. Most of our mods are the same, and your shield booster is about 350 mil more than mine, plus you have about 60 mil more in heat sinks. I have 50 mil more in the afterburner and 50-60 mil more in the one hardener. Where is this extra 1.25 bil difference coming from?
Vincent Doroth	Posted - 2011.04.21 22:04:00 - [16] Woops, just noticed that was a pith booster instead of gist.
Mike712	Posted - 2011.04.21 22:07:00 - [17] CCC rigs are better, with them you can rely on cap recharge to run your guns rather than having to pop boosters just to keep shooting. Also the Pithum A-type med booster is the best shield booster by far for a nightmare. I actually prefer the lower cap use on faction tachs, the extra damage of T2 doesn't appear to reduce the amount of volleys needed to destroy each NPC ship. My setup has ~10 mins of cap, which is essentially cap stable, it means you can just keep the tank running and can focus on killing stuff/flying your other ship if you dual box. I think it's a great ship, my first choice for many missions, the improved tracking over the paladin is noticeable and ever since the appearance of the noctis salvage is virtually worthless, so the paladin looses it's in mission salvaging advantage somewhat.
WhiteWarp Amarr Lone Star Exploration	Posted - 2011.04.21 22:10:00 - [18] Originally by: Vincent Doroth Woops, just noticed that was a pith booster instead of gist. No big deal, but I really suggest the Pith over the Gist for the needs of this ship. You don't need cap efficiency - you need burst healing. The money saved is a bonus. Maybe it's something in the way you fly it. Do you split your guns into two groups? Keep in mind that two guns will pop any frigate at range, and some cruisers, in a single shot. You'll save a lot of time and cap by saving a large amount of overkill damage on frigates, cruisers and BCs. Most BCs take about 6 turret hits, so 3 split group shots saves 2 turret shots per ship.
Vincent Doroth	Posted - 2011.04.21 22:17:00 - [19] Originally by: WhiteWarp Originally by: Vincent Doroth Woops, just noticed that was a pith booster instead of gist. No big deal, but I really suggest the Pith over the Gist for the needs of this ship. You don't need cap efficiency - you need burst healing. The money saved is a bonus. Maybe it's something in the way you fly it. Do you split your guns into two groups? Keep in mind that two guns will pop any frigate at range, and some cruisers, in a single shot. You'll save a lot of time and cap by saving a large amount of overkill damage on frigates, cruisers and BCs. Most BCs take about 6 turret hits, so 3 split group shots saves 2 turret shots per ship. Going to give the pith booster a try. Yes, i've got the guns split.
Mike712	Posted - 2011.04.21 22:19:00 - [20] Originally by: WhiteWarp Originally by: Vincent Doroth Woops, just noticed that was a pith booster instead of gist. No big deal, but I really suggest the Pith over the Gist for the needs of this ship. You don't need cap efficiency - you need burst healing. The money saved is a bonus. Maybe it's something in the way you fly it. Do you split your guns into two groups? Keep in mind that two guns will pop any frigate at range, and some cruisers, in a single shot. You'll save a lot of time and cap by saving a large amount of overkill damage on frigates, cruisers and BCs. Most BCs take about 6 turret hits, so 3 split group shots saves 2 turret shots per ship. With the NM 1 gun 1 shot will pop any frigate/destroyer at any range outside 30km up till lock range. All 4 guns will 1 volley pretty much all cruisers/battlecruisers outside 20km out to lock range.
WhiteWarp Amarr Lone Star Exploration	Posted - 2011.04.21 22:23:00 - [21] Mike makes a good point about the CCCs as well. Given how quickly fights are over in the nightmare, the extra regen is a bigger bonus than it might normally be. I see he talks about 10 minutes of cap with his medium booster, and that's obviously going to work well but it's a different style of play than what I am used to. For me, I can't think of any fight that lasts anywhere near 10 minutes. The X-L booster will drain your cap, yes, but it gives you an amazing tank for a very short duration. That seems to suit the Nightmare's style perfectly to me and is mainly a deterrent for gankers.
Sir Drake	Posted - 2011.04.21 22:23:00 - [22] +1 on the pith booster, cheaper and imo better suited for the nightmare. I personally prefer a cap-stable perma-running xl-pith tachy setup, while not as much DPS as the gank setups it makes that up with a more relaxed missioning. Also the Nightmares tank can be nicely beafed up with a Crystal set, an option the Paladin hasnt available (Slave set doesnt count for PvE imo). -------------------------------------------------- They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. Terry Pratchett
McRoll Minmatar Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.04.21 23:41:00 - [23] There are a couple of things you can do as well to help with cap. When I flew mine, I put a power diagnostic system instead of a heat sink in the lows (honestly the 4th doesnt give that much DPS) and downgraded to a large shield booster instead of x-large. With this I could fit 2 large faction NOS which help a lot with cap (30 km range to suck NPC's dry). Alternatively, you can just fit one and keep the x-large. Pretty much anything is better than a drone link augmentor or targeting unit there. Alternatively, try some different combinations of cap saving rigs- I think there are better combinations than just CCC's, depending on what shield booster and other cap depending mods you use.
Kyle Renton	Posted - 2011.04.22 00:32:00 - [24] I used to love my Nightmare on my old main, here's the fit I went with:- [Nightmare, Nightmare] (Low) Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink (Med) 100MN AB Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer Pith A-type Large Shield Booster Caldari Navy Invul Caldari Navy Invul Photon Scattering Field II Medium Cap Booster II (800 Charges) (High) Faction Tachyon Beam Laser (Imperial Navy Multi) Faction Tachyon Beam Laser (Imperial Navy Multi) Faction Tachyon Beam Laser (Imperial Navy Multi) Faction Tachyon Beam Laser (Imperial Navy Multi) Autotargetter (for more locks as someone else said) Small Tractor Beam I (Rigs) Large CCC II Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I (Drones) Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 I also tried the Paladin, but I found the Nightmare much better as I really couldn't be bothered salvaging and it just seemed faster, never timed it though. As you get used to it, you can indeed drop the cap booster for alot of missions, and the AB for close in ones, although tbh I usually just kept the fit the same. You can save ISK by swapping hardners every mission, I just went with the faction invuls so I didn't have to bother. I found you could pay for the setup in very little time, so the extra bit of bling was worth it, without being too excessive.
Fredfredbug4 Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.22 01:19:00 - [25] What do you expect from a giant flying turd?
WhiteWarp Amarr Lone Star Exploration	Posted - 2011.04.22 03:06:00 - [26] Originally by: McRoll Edited by: McRoll on 21/04/2011 23:50:40 Pretty much anything is better than a drone link augmentor or targeting unit there. The auto targeter is for locking and killing small ships quicker, because they take a lot longer to lock than they do to kill. The plan with that loadout isn't to let stuff get within 30 km. This prevents the NOS from coming into play. Really, that's why I use beams instead of pulse in the first place. If the plan was to fight at 30 km, I would certainly be fitting pulse. This would also save some grid to make fitting easier. It's a different style of play. One is sacrificing utility for improved killing speed. Another is sacrificing killing speed for some staying power.
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.04.22 04:44:00 - [27] Edited by: Patient 2428190 on 22/04/2011 04:44:26 37.5% extra tracking is pretty amazing and does benefit your applied DPS. Don't let similar EFT numbers fool you, the Nightmare is definitely an upgrade up in terms of ganking power. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
Straight Edged	Posted - 2011.04.22 04:56:00 - [28] Quote: 37.5% extra tracking is pretty amazing and does benefit your applied DPS. Don't let similar EFT numbers fool you, the Nightmare is definitely an upgrade up in terms of ganking power. it isnt in my experience (of course, it might not be for low skillers) Almost all missions, all the rats either have 0 angular velocity, or infinitely impossible to hit angular velocity. Thats why, even if tachyons have 2000% less tracking, it wont effect my mission completion time. at all. Just follow the usual pattern. Cruisers first. BC next. Battleships last. drones for all else. Furthermore, paladin can fit more tracking comp. if it wanted to. duh
Aamrr	Posted - 2011.04.22 06:13:00 - [29] Edited by: Aamrr on 22/04/2011 06:15:31 A good nightmare fits 2 tracking computers and a tracking enhancer. I would be very surprised if you got anything more significant than that on your paladin. Edit: Nevermind getting enough to make up for an non-stacking-penalized 37.5% bonus.
Pod Amarr	Posted - 2011.04.22 06:19:00 - [30] to the OP 4/10 you got actually people answering Pod

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.