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Astroka
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:12:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Astroka on 21/04/2011 21:24:42 Currently when you dock in a station you are automatically (on Duality, of course) taken to your Captain's Quarters. Didn't CCP previously promise that Incarna content would be entirely optional?
In before "docking is optional."
Edit: To clarify, I'm not complaining. I don't care about it. Just wondering since CCP seems to be going back on a previous statement.
====================================== "Rawr" means "I love you" in dinosaur! ====================================== |
Sader Rykane
Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:14:00 -
[2]
New and Original.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:18:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Akita T on 21/04/2011 21:19:23
Originally by: Astroka Didn't CCP previously promise that Incarna content would be entirely optional?
Once upon a time, they SAID something to that extent, yes. Just one more (at least implied) promise they're (almost) breaking.
P.S. At least they MIGHT make it fully optional and you get a black screen. Just might. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:18:00 -
[4]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 21/04/2011 21:18:59 it is optional. you don't have to touch with it with a 100 foot stick.
it just happens your default view will include your avatar. if that is pushing too much on your comfort zone, then gtfo.
edit:WAAAAAAAAAAH I don't even want a different camera angle that doesn't increase my load times or effect gameplay WAHHHHHHHHHHH
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Sader Rykane
Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:21:00 -
[5]
Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 21/04/2011 21:18:59 it is optional. you don't have to touch with it with a 100 foot stick.
it just happens your default view will include your avatar. if that is pushing too much on your comfort zone, then gtfo.
edit:WAAAAAAAAAAH I don't even want a different camera angle that doesn't increase my load times or effect gameplay WAHHHHHHHHHHH
Lets be clear, I could care less how this eventually turns out.
But: Preventing ship spinning does affect my gameplay, and don't you ever say that it doesn't.
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Astroka
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:21:00 -
[6]
Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 21/04/2011 21:18:59 it is optional. you don't have to touch with it with a 100 foot stick.
it just happens your default view will include your avatar. if that is pushing too much on your comfort zone, then gtfo.
edit:WAAAAAAAAAAH I don't even want a different camera angle that doesn't increase my load times or effect gameplay WAHHHHHHHHHHH
Should've figured someone would post and douche it up. I'm not complaining, it's just something I was wondering about. Maybe you should actually know what someone's talking about before you start being a complete *******?
====================================== "Rawr" means "I love you" in dinosaur! ====================================== |
Sig Sour
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:23:00 -
[7]
Someone pass me a tissue because i REALLY AM CRYING.
I can't click drag my ships out into my hangar to make them active anymore.
RPers 1, Sig Sour 0.
Don't laugh at me cause I lost.
Don't troll me either cause I might cry even harder.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:24:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Akita T on 21/04/2011 21:25:57
SOME people play EVE from really crappy machines, maybe not permanently, but just during weekdays or while at the office or whatever/wherever... and most of what they do from those particular machines is important for them, and can be done with a relatively low FPS, but it gets increasingly painful the lower the FPS goes. As long as at least the craptastic option of looking at a NEOCOM loaded over a black screen remains an OPTION, it's borderline ok... but if the (_expected_) FPS-crushing CQ environment is _forced_ on every person, you really can't expect those people to feel a burning desire to keep playing anyway for too long afterwards.
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts |
Astroka
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:25:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Akita T SOME people play EVE from really crappy machines, maybe not permanently, but just during weekdays or while at the office or whatever/wherever... and most of what they do from those particular machines is important for them, and can be done with a relatively low FPS, but it gets increasingly painful the lower the FPS goes. As long as at least the craptastic option of looking at a NEOCOM loaded over a black screen remains an OPTION, it's borderline ok... but if the FPS-crushing CQ environment is _forced_ on every person, you really can't expect those people to feel a burning desire to keep playing anyway for too long afterwards.
Akita T never fails to raise a good point.
====================================== "Rawr" means "I love you" in dinosaur! ====================================== |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 21/04/2011 21:18:59 it is optional. you don't have to touch with it with a 100 foot stick.
it just happens your default view will include your avatar. if that is pushing too much on your comfort zone, then gtfo.
edit:WAAAAAAAAAAH I don't even want a different camera angle that doesn't increase my load times or effect gameplay WAHHHHHHHHHHH
Lets be clear, I could care less how this eventually turns out.
But: Preventing ship spinning does affect my gameplay, and don't you ever say that it doesn't.
fitting window
spin ship
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:29:00 -
[11]
Last I checked, the normal hangar buttons are still present, so the station functions provided by Captain's Quarters are redundant.
However, if you were using Eve as a test/technology platform for your World of Darkness MMORPG, wouldn't you decide to make people use the Captain's Quarters interface in order to get feedback, make tweaks, and find bugs faster?
And is it really a good idea to present new players with redundant interface features?
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:37:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Astroka
Originally by: Akita T SOME people play EVE from really crappy machines, maybe not permanently, but just during weekdays or while at the office or whatever/wherever... and most of what they do from those particular machines is important for them, and can be done with a relatively low FPS, but it gets increasingly painful the lower the FPS goes. As long as at least the craptastic option of looking at a NEOCOM loaded over a black screen remains an OPTION, it's borderline ok... but if the FPS-crushing CQ environment is _forced_ on every person, you really can't expect those people to feel a burning desire to keep playing anyway for too long afterwards.
Akita T never fails to raise a good point.
CCP should forever program to the least capable computer that logs into it? Forever?
They've proven in the past that that is not how they roll. If there are some casualties along the road to Incarna (which I personally believe none of us will see in our lifetimes, anyway) then so be it.
Upgrade or stick to Minecraft.
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Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2011.04.21 22:07:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
CCP should forever program to the least capable computer that logs into it? Forever?
They've proven in the past that that is not how they roll. If there are some casualties along the road to Incarna (which I personally believe none of us will see in our lifetimes, anyway) then so be it.
Upgrade or stick to Minecraft.
This, basically. I could not give a flying **** about people trying to log in with sub-standard systems. It's 2011, get with with the times. And if you can't afford to, tough. There are plenty of games out there that are more gentle on the minimum specs than EvE.
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Tuggboat
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.21 22:13:00 -
[14]
I wish all upgrades were optional
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Saju Somtaaw
Kagan-Trjula Industrial
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Posted - 2011.04.21 22:16:00 -
[15]
Furthermore, if your work/office computer can't run it now thats probably a good thing as you can get actual work done. ---- --- ---
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.21 22:22:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Akita T on 21/04/2011 22:24:10
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla CCP should forever program to the least capable computer that logs into it? Forever?
What is wrong with having "fallback" contingencies for SOME of the older computers, ESPECIALLY for people not interested in experiencing everything EVE has to offer from all possible locations they login from ? Hell, _IF_ they ever implement a web based skillchange, science, industry and trade frontend for people that are docked (because, let's face it, for those, EVEN A BLOODY TEXT MODE INTERFACE WOULD DO THE JOB JUST FINE), I wouldn't give a rat's ass if they make it so that the game client requires hardware that only came out half a year ago.
Originally by: Jovan Geldon I could not give a flying **** about people trying to log in with sub-standard systems. It's 2011, get with with the times. And if you can't afford to, tough. There are plenty of games out there that are more gentle on the minimum specs than EvE.
[sarcasm]Yes, because alienating a portion of your userbase for absolutely no good reason makes PERFECT financial sense ![/sarcasm]
Just wait until CQ comes out when people will ACTUALLY start crying about what happened, as opposed to the people that preemptively complain now... see if you like the difference in complaint volume then. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts |
ceaon
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Posted - 2011.04.21 22:24:00 -
[17]
even if my pc can run CQ i dont want to be on CQ all the time i dock and yes CCP said many time that walking in station will be optional
if the CQ wont be optional the only solution is to hack around and remove all CQ textures to have a faster load when docking
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
If the whole country is corrupted then it's no longer corruption but culture.
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Saju Somtaaw
Kagan-Trjula Industrial
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Posted - 2011.04.21 22:26:00 -
[18]
Originally by: ceaon even if my pc can run CQ i dont want to be on CQ all the time i dock and yes CCP said many time that walking in station will be optional
if the CQ wont be optional the only solution is to hack around and remove all CQ textures to have a faster load when docking
Bolded the important part, you don't have to walk, you can stand around on your balcony all day.
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Lost Greybeard
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Posted - 2011.04.21 22:28:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
CCP should forever program to the least capable computer that logs into it? Forever?
One of the major upsides of MMOs in general is low (comparatively) system requirements, they have to be compatible with basically any computer a person might reasonably using. Basically, they should still be thinking in terms of 5-year-old average hardware -- no one should ever have to upgrade to continue playing an MMO... if our entertainment budget for the month is like 15$, requiring 1500$ purchases of us would be the financial equivalent of the CEO making a batch of cyanide punch and having the whole company down a cup ritualistically.
That said, I haven't seen anything from Incarna so far that a 10-year-old machine couldn't handle, much less a 5-year-old one. They seem to be pretty safe on the vast majority of the userbase finding the content accessible. ---
If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.21 22:28:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla CCP should forever program to the least capable computer that logs into it? Forever?
For tasks that require zero bling, yes. Yes they should. Market, PI, S&I, corp management ù none of that has any need whatsoever for loading a WIS interface. None. It is completely useless. And since there are people who play the game almost entirely engaging in those activities, there's sfa to gain from forcing them to load up an interface they will never ever use.
It's a waste of everyone's time and resources ù make it optional (i.e. keep what we have) and concentrate on making the new UI work for those who want more.
Quote: This, basically. I could not give a flying **** about people trying to log in with sub-standard systems. It's 2011, get with with the times.
That's a deeply moronic view. When you want to use install and launch notepad to put down a couple of phone numbers you want to call later, do you want it to take 5 minutes to launch, take up 4GB of RAM, and require a couple of hundred megs per saved file? After all, it's 2011, and our computers can handle that with easeà
àor do you just want a simple function and limited functionality to correspond with being contained in a simple, lightweight app? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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Spurty
Caldari V0LTA VOLTA Corp
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Posted - 2011.04.21 22:39:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Spurty on 21/04/2011 22:40:43 Excuse typos, ducking baseballs from kids practice. Got a ringer here
I too demand CCP take all graphics away completely so I can play on my casio digital watch. 4 buttons is 3 more than you nerd for cripple ware you numpties telling the pretty damned correct guy that it's 2011.
Without games pushing the bleeding edge you wouldn't have ever left the 8bit land.
Heck, 64bits frightens some of you and it's been around for 20+ years now.
If you want to play eve(a modern game) don't complain that your system can't handle it. Just admit defeat and return to fgbbing people in quake 1 ( or tribes, I hear it's now freeware)
Fizzt!
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ceaon
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Posted - 2011.04.21 22:45:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Spurty Edited by: Spurty on 21/04/2011 22:40:43 Excuse typos, ducking baseballs from kids practice. Got a ringer here
I too demand CCP take all graphics away completely so I can play on my casio digital watch. 4 buttons is 3 more than you nerd for cripple ware you numpties telling the pretty damned correct guy that it's 2011.
Without games pushing the bleeding edge you wouldn't have ever left the 8bit land.
Heck, 64bits frightens some of you and it's been around for 20+ years now.
If you want to play eve(a modern game) don't complain that your system can't handle it. Just admit defeat and return to fgbbing people in quake 1 ( or tribes, I hear it's now freeware)
is not about that crap you post is the simple fact that ccp said walking ins station will be optional
also plz kill yourself in game
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
If the whole country is corrupted then it's no longer corruption but culture.
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.04.21 22:51:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla CCP should forever program to the least capable computer that logs into it? Forever?
For tasks that require zero bling, yes. Yes they should. Market, PI, S&I, corp management ù none of that has any need whatsoever for loading a WIS interface. None. It is completely useless. And since there are people who play the game almost entirely engaging in those activities, there's sfa to gain from forcing them to load up an interface they will never ever use.
It's a waste of everyone's time and resources ù make it optional (i.e. keep what we have) and concentrate on making the new UI work for those who want more.
Again, if we were back in the days when CCP was running the Premium client and the Classic client, I'd be with you. But CCP doesn't want to waste resources accomodating different playstyles. I assume someone at CCP crunched the numbers and came to the conclusion that maintains two separate lines of code that do the same thing was wasteful. They want to make one game. CCP wants CQ. They want the game to move forward.
AFAIK, they dropped the Linux client for similar reasons. Given the unreliability of the Mac client, I expect it to be next to go. I use the Mac client for only the purposes you outline above, because it cannot be counted on not to freeze when things get busy. If CCP drops the Mac client, I'll open up some space on it's HD by deleting the client. No skin off my nose.
Same discussion arose around the SM upgrades as well. And somehow we all survived. I'm sure we'll survive CQ as well. But I reiterate: given what's on Duality right now, I doubt you have anything to worry about for a little while. Worst case, they'll try to implement it and end up pulling it a day or two later.
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mkint
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Posted - 2011.04.21 23:13:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Lost Greybeard
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
CCP should forever program to the least capable computer that logs into it? Forever?
One of the major upsides of MMOs in general is low (comparatively) system requirements, they have to be compatible with basically any computer a person might reasonably using. Basically, they should still be thinking in terms of 5-year-old average hardware -- no one should ever have to upgrade to continue playing an MMO... if our entertainment budget for the month is like 15$, requiring 1500$ purchases of us would be the financial equivalent of the CEO making a batch of cyanide punch and having the whole company down a cup ritualistically.
That said, I haven't seen anything from Incarna so far that a 10-year-old machine couldn't handle, much less a 5-year-old one. They seem to be pretty safe on the vast majority of the userbase finding the content accessible.
This. I am one of those people on a 5 year old machine (early 64 bit AMD.) I'm on a 2 year old video card ($100 card at the time.) I fall well within the "minimum requirements" for EVE, but over the past year I notice a significant decrease in performance quality with every single patch with absolutely zero gameplay enhancements to justify it. Client-side performance for EVE has never been worse. However, from reading the test server forums it sounds like some of the UI is being reworked to perform better (which is seriously the only thing in EVE I'm currently looking forward to.)
I know CQ on duality is still a work in progress, but right now loading with high shaders (as the devblog said is required right now) takes me 15 minutes or so. And even then I've got the bug where my avatar does not load, so I can't even use any of the CQ interface. If there was an option for "prompt on docking" I would probably sometimes go into the CQ if I planned on sticking around docked for a while, but I would prefer it didn't.
Since loading CQ takes so incredibly long, I've had the chance to notice that the old background loads anyway and it loads CQ on top of it. I would think it should be a simple matter of a "load environment" switch to make CQ optional.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.21 23:21:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla Again, if we were back in the days when CCP was running the Premium client and the Classic client, I'd be with you. But CCP doesn't want to waste resources accomodating different playstyles.
But that's just it: providing that option wastes zero resources ù the actual interfaces will remain exactly the same, only you have to do a bunch of irrelevant crap in the background. If "not doing crap" wastes resources, someone needs to go back to the design documents and actually write them so they make sense.
Not providing that option, on the other hand, wastes people's time.
Quote: AFAIK, they dropped the Linux client for similar reasons. Given the unreliability of the Mac client, I expect it to be next to go.
They dropped the Linux client because the Wine community kept the client running better than they did ù they were (poorly) duplicating work that others did faster and better. This is not the case with the Mac client.
Quote: Same discussion arose around the SM upgrades as well.
No, that's different: that's about what basic functionality a graphics cards needs to have in order to do everything in the game because doing it otherwise would require completely separate render paths. It would be a duplication of effort. This is about using exactly the same render path, but not loading and rendering certain things that simply aren't necessary ù there is no duplication of effort (other than admitting that some of the effort they put into some content isn't used by certain peopleà but how is that any different than having Titans in the game?) ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises Peregrine Nation
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Posted - 2011.04.21 23:24:00 -
[26]
Is it possible that CCP just dont have that feature on Duality since the only reason people would use that server is to test the quarters them selfes?
They have promised over and over again that it will be optional,but i honestly don't see why they would have that feature on a server,which at current time,is purely ment to test the Captain Quarters,not how fast you can dock/undock.
Just something to consider
Phoibe Enterprises
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.21 23:29:00 -
[27]
Originally by: NightCrawler 85 They have promised over and over again that it will be optional
And that's all people are asking for : confirmation they WILL do it like that. Because in the fanfest CQ presentation, they said it's going to replace the current "docked" view. Not enhance. REPLACE. As in, NOT optional.
If the latest news is accurate, AT BEST we can hope for an optional "don't load anything at all", if even that. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts |
Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2011.04.21 23:36:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Astroka Edited by: Astroka on 21/04/2011 21:24:42 Currently when you dock in a station you are automatically (on Duality, of course) taken to your Captain's Quarters. Didn't CCP previously promise that Incarna content would be entirely optional?
In before "docking is optional."
Edit: To clarify, I'm not complaining. I don't care about it. Just wondering since CCP seems to be going back on a previous statement.
Yes you are correct Incarna patch is entirely optional, if you want Incarna you have to pay 50 USD or 3 PLEX.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente NME1
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Posted - 2011.04.21 23:37:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Sader Rykane But: Preventing ship spinning does affect my gameplay, and don't you ever say that it doesn't.
The ship doesn't spin. Your camera spins. The ship remains stationary.
(also it looks like they nerfed login/logout/login to defeat the 5-minute post timer.)
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Myra2007
Millstone Industries
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Posted - 2011.04.21 23:43:00 -
[30]
If people could just stop pretending that making a checkbox like we have now (for the station interior) to opt out of the cq is ultrahard and makes it less fun for those who want to use it. Such a simple option would be win/win and there is absolutely no reason to be against it except out of spite which is the sentiment that seems to be popular here. --
Originally by: CCP Elais
It was a great Frankenstein moment [...] to see the forum [...] come alive.
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