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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.24 10:58:00 -
[1]
Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 24/04/2011 11:04:16
More pvp for everyone.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1501137
Topic is being discussed here.Just curious what everyone thinks about the topic.
Edit:added link.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.04.24 11:05:00 -
[2]
Yes please.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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Mashie Saldana
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.04.24 11:24:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 24/04/2011 11:24:23 This would be awesome.
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Marconus Orion
S.E.G.W.A.Y.
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Posted - 2011.04.24 11:29:00 -
[4]
If you want more PvP get out of high sec.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.24 11:36:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Marconus Orion If you want more PvP get out of high sec.
You want to troll me GD is <--------- that way.I wont answer to anything here after this.A simple thumb down would have been enough.
You guys got enough pvp out in null and low sec.This is a whole other topic.
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Victor Dathar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.24 12:23:00 -
[6]
Please make it easier for me to gank mission running battleships kk?
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FishermansFriend
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Posted - 2011.04.24 13:46:00 -
[7]
Originally by: HeIIfire11
Originally by: Marconus Orion If you want more PvP get out of high sec.
You want to troll me GD is <--------- that way.I wont answer to anything here after this.A simple thumb down would have been enough.
You guys got enough pvp out in null and low sec.This is a whole other topic.
No, he is raising a point in which others will read and have their opinion influenced. You need to learn proposals have 2 sides. I also think no because it destroys a profession and makes it a bit harder to kill idiots in multi-billion isk ships in lvl 4's.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.04.24 17:52:00 -
[8]
Way too many dumb safe mission runners who think their Pirate BS vs a salvage destroyer is equivalent risk.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Cyprus Black
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2011.04.25 00:17:00 -
[9]
Ninja salvagers often ARE flagged to the mission runner. That's really the whole point of ninja salvaging: To get the mission runner to aggress so you can come back in with a gank ship and take him out.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.25 11:49:00 -
[10]
Originally by: ShahFluffers
Hellfire... let me make this clear... you are bringing an idea to us. This means you must convince us that the mechanics need to change. If you can't convince us (as you haven't so far) then the idea falls flat and should die (as every other thread like this has).
Okay I'll start here. As much as I would love the Idea that convincing you guys would be enough to change something in eve,it sadly wont. If the ideas that are brought to the csm and passed up to ccp don't get acknowledged then neither will mine. And to an extent I agree that this change would most likely be too much work for ccp for the small change that it would bring forth. That said my main goal in this thread was not to change anything but to simply state my opinion. Apart from that the people who would have to vote on my behalf would be the mission runner crowd which for the most part have no interest in pvp what so ever. Because while being a solution to much confusion it would do just that,offer a new opportunity for pvp in high sec while eliminating a risk free way to earn isk.
Originally by: ShahFluffers I personally don't see an issue with ninja-salvaging (and the quotes I posted on the first page show CCP doesn't have an issue with it either). And skimming through this thread I think it's safe to say that many others here do not see it as a problem.
First off I have to say I disagree that ninja salvaging doesn't cause a problem. So being a topic that has been beaten to death I'm not too sure where to start. I think I'll start with your quotes on page one that everyone values so highly.Lets break them down and see what they actually bring to the table. Keep in mind that I will treat what ccp says as gods word just for the sake of argument. After all it is their game.
1. CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."
In quote one the link doesn't work so all I have to go on is the quote itself and not what was said in the thread. And the quote says nothing other than that ccp wants it to be a mini profession and doesn't consider salvaging as theft.
2. GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.
In quote two say the same thing basically,that its an intended game mechanic and not an exploit. I for one never said it was an exploit but that it was a bad game design. But I'll get to that later on in this post. The key part of this quote is the bottom half.
Originally by: GM Faolchu Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along.
"Eve is a harsh place....it's a do or die world". What is harsh about scanning down a player who cant shoot you,and salvaging his wrecks while he tanks the mission? Nothing at all. Its free isk. Not only that but it takes nothing to train an alt which can do this,I estimate two weeks if not less. Even faster now that we have the 100% training time bonus on new characters.
Continued below...
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.25 11:57:00 -
[11]
3. Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.
This one is very very interesting and a major key in my argument. You quoted the part that you wanted to see but not the relevant part. One of the most used arguments are "it's not your wreck and only the loot inside is yours". I am going to kill this argument once and for all. Now again,keep I'm mind that we are taking the word of CCP as the word of god. The part you should have quoted is this...
Originally by: GM Ytterbium The wreck ownership mechanism has recently been changed, and as such will not belong to the character doing most damage to the NPC anymore, but to the pilot who first accepted the mission.
Wow..now this brings a whole new light on the subject now doesn't it? This is a senior GM who states that the wreck does in fact belong to the pilot who accepted the mission. This along with the fact that the wreck has my corp name on it,can not be shot or tractor beamed by anyone but myself and my corp clearly proves that the wreck is in fact...mine. He doesn't say It belongs to me as long as my loot is in there,but that it is plain and simple..mine.
4. CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.
In this quote CCP Prism x took it upon himself to get a little sarcastic.
Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window.
No **** Sherlock. But he doesn't address any of the key points players bring up in this or any other thread on this subject. All he says is that "It's not stealing" which clearly contradicts what Senior GM Ytterbium stated in the quote above. As far as I know taking anything from a wreck that is mine (which we have proven to be mine) is stealing. So either they need to talk it over what it is exactly that they want,or to fix the game mechanic to reflect this choice. Like change the ownership of the wreck when looted. So until they decide what it is they want,I will call it bad game design. Simple as that. Why? Because the game mechanic doesn't reflect what they say it is intended to be.
5. CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks.
This quote confirms my statement from above and again contradicts what Senior GM Ytterbium stated in his post. It confirms my statement that the game mechanic doesn't reflect what the designers intend it to be hence its bad game design as I have said many times in this thread. Bad game design which causes confusion and these threads that keep arising on this subject. He has spoken with the designers and they have concluded that the wreck is not mine but the loot is. Why then after the wreck is looted,does it remain unchanged? I still can't shoot it or tractor beam it as a salvager or someone not in that corp. This again confirms a problem and a contradiction in the game design as far as salvaging goes.
Continued below...
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.25 11:59:00 -
[12]
Originally by: ShahFluffers Just because you CLAIM it's bad game design doesn't make it so.
No it doesn't but the facts above prove that it is and I hope I helped clear you nicely prepaired quote bible up a bit and maybe even convince you that there is infact a problem at hand that causes this confusion. What it is and how to fix it I will leave up to the developers to solve. In my opinion flagging the salvager at least in missions,would solve the problem while opening new doors to pvp in high sec,and spice up mission running a bit.
Posts have been taken from the thread linked in the op on page 10.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari draketrain Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.04.25 12:30:00 -
[13]
Why bring up this **** over and over. It's boring.
-1
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KrustyKrab
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2011.04.25 20:35:00 -
[14]
yes please, flag ninjas as thieves just for salvaging so I can blow up more mission runners.
I'm KrustyKrab and I approve this message.
paid for by the KrustyKrab for Ninja President Alliance. All rights reserved. Stuff goes here |
Corina's Bodyguard
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Posted - 2011.04.25 21:18:00 -
[15]
With your points on the quotes, I'll say one thing. CCP Dev>GM.
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Skex Relbore
Red Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.25 21:42:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Cyprus Black Ninja salvagers often ARE flagged to the mission runner. That's really the whole point of ninja salvaging: To get the mission runner to aggress so you can come back in with a gank ship and take him out.
No only loot thieves are flagged for aggression.
That's kind of the whole frigging point of these threads. It's inconsistent that Salvaging and looting mission objectives doesn't flag for theft.
Support OP (not that anything is likely to change)
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Korg Tronix
The Mabinogion
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Posted - 2011.04.26 09:07:00 -
[17]
I support this, It will be hilarious if this change occurs.
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Reaver Glitterstim
Legio Geminatus
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Posted - 2011.04.26 16:31:00 -
[18]
supported for obviousness --
Thousand Papercuts Project |
Emperor Salazar
Caldari Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.04.26 16:39:00 -
[19]
Counter proposal: remove Concord intervention in mission areas.
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Seamus Donohue
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.26 23:43:00 -
[20]
Not supported as an isolated change. __________________________________________________ Survivor of Teskanen, fan of John Rourke. |
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2011.04.27 00:07:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Marconus Orion If you want more PvP get out of high sec.
Also, while this opens new avenues for griefing mission runners, it effectively nerfs the profession of non-ninja salvaging, as fewer new players will be willing to respond to the "free salvage" posts expecting to get blown to hell or at least have their time wasted.
This just makes game mechanics even more complicated, to the detriment of new players, and offers no real upside. If ninjas want to turn flashly they can always just steal loot.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.27 01:51:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Originally by: Marconus Orion If you want more PvP get out of high sec.
Also, while this opens new avenues for griefing mission runners, it effectively nerfs the profession of non-ninja salvaging, as fewer new players will be willing to respond to the "free salvage" posts expecting to get blown to hell or at least have their time wasted.
No it wouldn't there is already a mechanic in game to surrender ownership of wrecks all the non-aggro seeking salvagers would have to do is stick to salvaging blue wrecks.
Quote:
This just makes game mechanics even more complicated, to the detriment of new players, and offers no real upside. If ninjas want to turn flashly they can always just steal loot.
Actually no it would simply make the aggression mechanic more consistent with the rest of the game. You take something that you didn't earn the person who actually did the work creating the opportunity gets the option to assert their ownership.
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2011.04.27 02:36:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Skex Relbore
Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Originally by: Marconus Orion If you want more PvP get out of high sec.
Also, while this opens new avenues for griefing mission runners, it effectively nerfs the profession of non-ninja salvaging, as fewer new players will be willing to respond to the "free salvage" posts expecting to get blown to hell or at least have their time wasted.
No it wouldn't there is already a mechanic in game to surrender ownership of wrecks all the non-aggro seeking salvagers would have to do is stick to salvaging blue wrecks.
Yes, but effectively it's just another twist and turn of the rules that enables "hey free salvage" in local to translate to dead new players. "LOL YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN THEY WEREN'T BLUE WRECKS NOOB" when the dude just read on the ivy league site that salvaging was a good way to make space money.
I really see no upside to this proposed mechanic, aside from more opportunity to grief new players. That's pretty much the only demographic in the game I'm against griefing. Unsurprising the highsec pvp crowd is rallying for this one. More sweet velator kills.
Seriously, what's the actual upside to this?
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Awesome Possum
Original Sin. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
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Posted - 2011.04.27 04:03:00 -
[24]
you pussies wouldn't shoot anyways, so why ask for it? ♥
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