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Anadonte
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Posted - 2011.04.25 02:03:00 -
[1]
Anyone else getting slightly irritated by their spamming local for you to invest in them?
They claim a 5% guaranteed compounding investment per week. I don't know if they know but that's a 1,264.281% return annually assuming you hold it in that long, and that's just their 'guaranteed' yield. They also state that occassionally they also have an excess that they give out via dividend style to all the investors every once in a while on a 'as-it-happens' basis.
I find this hard to believe, even in a video game. Can anyone actually verify this?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.25 02:06:00 -
[2]
Local channel scam spammers, nothing new there. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts |
Anadonte
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Posted - 2011.04.25 02:06:00 -
[3]
I don't mean to sound so cynical of it, but I'm cautiously apprehensive. Guaranteeing at least a 1300% return on investment, video game or not, seems well...high improbable to say the least.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.25 02:11:00 -
[4]
Two possibilities here : people advertising for YET ANOTHER Ponzi scheme scam (the most likely scenario), or people that genuinely believe they can scale up their trading profit linearly regardless of amount of ISK handled by them (which is still a possible scenario). Either way, it can only end in one way : at a certain point, they will no longer be able to deliver what they promise. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts |
Anadonte
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Posted - 2011.04.25 02:14:00 -
[5]
Aye, I just ligitimately feel bad for them, I do this kind of stuff in real life, 1300% RoI with no risk is well...impossible. Even for a video game, unless they're seriously making some mad props to mass buying and selling and that's it. But I see the corp founder more often than not just floating around the core race regions, spamming local over and over. I kinda want to correct him in local ya know?
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Gei'neille
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Posted - 2011.04.25 02:14:00 -
[6]
I would be wary of any guaranteed return that offers compounding, etc. It sounds much like the HYIPs in RL.
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Anadonte
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Posted - 2011.04.25 02:17:00 -
[7]
I'm a financial planner in real life so I know the actual mathematics behind it on an intricate level. That's why I'm so apprehensive about it. :p
Logically, you have better chances walking away with money playing on blink than this corp's investments. :p
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.25 02:20:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Akita T on 25/04/2011 02:21:47
The question is, IF they can make MORE than 5% per week profit on what they trade, why borrow so much money at all in the first place ? They claim to have at least 10 traders working, I seriously doubt they couldn't come up with a decent initial investment between them combined, and if they don't need to pay interest to other people they'd end up multiplying that so fast that any amount of borrowing they can do will pale in comparison. The only logical conclusions are that they're either flat broke (in which case, why the hell trust them to be able to constantly make so much ISK) or they're pulling a Ponzi (in which case, MAYBE if you get in early and PULL OUT IN FULL very soon, it might be ok for you, but bad for everybody else when the thing collapses).
EDIT
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1449102&page=1#14 Ha... _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2011.04.25 02:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Gei'neille I would be wary of any guaranteed return that offers compounding, etc. It sounds much like the HYIPs in RL.
Kicked up your post a notch.
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
Gei'neille
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Posted - 2011.04.25 02:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Gei'neille I would be wary of any guaranteed return that offers compounding, etc. It sounds much like the HYIPs in RL.
Kicked up your post a notch.
Thanks. I thought I would leave the word to imagination. Sometimes it works.
___________
PCMTF ___________
Prospectus |
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Brock Nelson
Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.
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Posted - 2011.04.25 04:46:00 -
[11]
Step 1: Right click on Eddie's name Step 2: Click on "Block" Step 3: Profit?
Investor Relation | IPO Doc | BSAC SE Listing |
Julius Rigel
Sub-warp Racing Venture
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Posted - 2011.04.25 13:19:00 -
[12]
The only scam going on here is that they consistently manage to trick people into making these threads for them.
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2011.04.27 02:56:00 -
[13]
According to eminent MD auditor VV:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1449102&page=1#29
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Why so negative? They setup their thing, they are already running it (so it's too late), they are not bothering anyone.
Being suspicious is good but to automatically presume guilt is not going to bring anywhere.
They're cool. You'd have to be a big ol' meanie to call it a scam.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.04.27 07:00:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Emperor Cheney According to eminent MD auditor VV:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1449102&page=1#29
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Why so negative? They setup their thing, they are already running it (so it's too late), they are not bothering anyone.
Being suspicious is good but to automatically presume guilt is not going to bring anywhere.
They're cool. You'd have to be a big ol' meanie to call it a scam.
To call it a scam you should have a proof of some sort.
They don't want to provide evidence about they not being a scam nor want to comply with MD "investments customs".
This means their complete lack of trustable standards won't see me investing in them anytime soon. Their offer just does not meet my criteria. At the same time there is no cogent proof this is a scam. You can't really say someone cheats at your game, when they refuse to participate to your game.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2011.04.27 11:28:00 -
[15]
I'm not criticizing the lack of screaming "OMG CONFIRMED SCAM"
I am criticizing how you go so far as to deflect scrutiny directed at them. You were not being impartial. You put yourself into an argument, and you did it on the side of the guys offering 1000 percent annual interest and local spam.
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Will Gauss
Gallente TerminalDogma Stellar Economy Experts
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Posted - 2011.04.27 13:24:00 -
[16]
I'm roughly 3B invested in them at this point and they've complied with all withdrawal requests just fine and provided their 5% just fine. While I understand the compulsion to call 99% of jita local offers a scan, I have to say that I've had no problems with them. I've withdrawn a half a bil at once, and a full bil at once, and have my account set to reinvest because after a lengthy conversation with them, I'm convinced that they can do this.
And to those calling it a ponzi scheme, what kind of ponzi scheme deliberately throttles the amount of ISK coming in? It seems rather self-defeating if you ask me, that simple fact is what intrigued me into trying them out in the first place. That throttle on incoming ISK seemed rather pointless to me unless they legitimately were attempting to ensure they can provide the 5%.
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Saiph Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2011.04.27 13:52:00 -
[17]
Best theory I've heard yet - they're an RMT front, and they deal with the occasional legitimate investor to keep up appearances as most of their investors are actually ISK buyers.
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Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.27 14:05:00 -
[18]
Regardless of what they do with the ISK in-game, they are set up so you give them money in-game (thus revealing your character(s)) and you set up an account on their website (thus linking said character(s) to your IP address, at the very least).
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flakeys
The Great cornholio's
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Posted - 2011.04.27 14:25:00 -
[19]
Edited by: flakeys on 27/04/2011 14:25:33
Originally by: Julius Rigel The only scam going on here is that they consistently manage to trick people into making these threads for them.
Exactly my idea when i noticed another new post bout phaser
edit:Bad publicity still is publicity ?
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Zim Pari
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Posted - 2011.05.16 21:02:00 -
[20]
The funny thing about this is, that there are no users yet that have come forward with complaints against them. (Not paying or smth like that.)
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Lando Antilles
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Posted - 2011.05.16 22:45:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Zim Pari The funny thing about this is, that there are no users yet that have come forward with complaints against them. (Not paying or smth like that.)
And how many have come forward to advocate for them? ---------------------- My *locked* EVE CV |
Khanid Voltar
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Posted - 2011.05.17 06:42:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lando Antilles
Originally by: Zim Pari The funny thing about this is, that there are no users yet that have come forward with complaints against them. (Not paying or smth like that.)
And how many have come forward to advocate for them?
That's a pretty weak troll Lando. Check out the previous threads and you will see how many. Also check out this thread, Will Gauss seems to be advocating them about 3 posts before yours.
Suggest you research before jumping on the bandwagon
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Bill Lane
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Posted - 2011.05.17 07:35:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Bill Lane on 17/05/2011 07:35:42 I've had an account with them for 10 weeks now. I've gotten paid every week, even got 5.3% one week, and I've never had any trouble pulling some money out of the account when I need it.
Just thought I'd throw a positive comment in.
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Florestan Bronstein
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.17 09:01:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 17/05/2011 09:01:28
Originally by: Anadonte Aye, I just ligitimately feel bad for them, I do this kind of stuff in real life, 1300% RoI with no risk is well...impossible.
as Akita has already pointed out this mainly depends on the size of the investment.
I am extremely confident I could achieve 1300% RoI over two weeks on a 1,000 ISK investment.
There are many very profitable holes in the eve markets that are open to small-medium players but are not cost-efficient to fill for the large ones (because despite insane RoI the absolute profit is just not worth the transaction cost/opportunity cost associated with looking up the item, managing orders, ...).
The problem with cumulative interest is that you lose control of the amount of capital you handle - it is only a matter of time until the interest payments push you past the point of profitability if you don't get your customers to cash out (assuming diminishing returns based on investment size for large investments).
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Red Neckromonger
Gallente The Embraced Of Eve Everto Lacrima Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.17 09:31:00 -
[25]
I invested 100m with Phaser six weeks ago. The first Monday that came around I logged on to see I was 5m richer. So far so good. Since then I chose to reinvest my interest payments, now I will not know if it's a scam until I choose to withdrawal, which won't be anytime soon. Kind of a rainy day fund as I look at it. Their website is pretty informative and useful. So no complaints here...yet, lol. If worst comes to worst, it's only 100m isk.
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Lando Antilles
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Posted - 2011.05.17 13:33:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Khanid Voltar
Originally by: Lando Antilles troll
That's a pretty weak troll Lando. Check out the previous threads and you will see how many. Also check out this thread, Will Gauss seems to be advocating them about 3 posts before yours.
You're right, I've had better.
Or maybe I'm actually on phaserinc payroll and it was an easy set up for some good PR.
No, not really. I'm just overly skeptical of a local spamming, non-audited, fixed interest rate perpetuity bond. But my biggest concern echoes Akita's thoughts on scalability. ---------------------- My *locked* EVE CV |
Virtue Maulerant
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Posted - 2011.05.17 15:52:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Red Neckromonger I invested 100m with Phaser six weeks ago. The first Monday that came around I logged on to see I was 5m richer. So far so good. Since then I chose to reinvest my interest payments, now I will not know if it's a scam until I choose to withdrawal, which won't be anytime soon. Kind of a rainy day fund as I look at it. Their website is pretty informative and useful. So no complaints here...yet, lol. If worst comes to worst, it's only 100m isk.
Originally by: Will Gauss I'm roughly 3B invested in them at this point and they've complied with all withdrawal requests just fine and provided their 5% just fine. While I understand the compulsion to call 99% of jita local offers a scan, I have to say that I've had no problems with them. I've withdrawn a half a bil at once, and a full bil at once, and have my account set to reinvest because after a lengthy conversation with them, I'm convinced that they can do this.
And to those calling it a ponzi scheme, what kind of ponzi scheme deliberately throttles the amount of ISK coming in? It seems rather self-defeating if you ask me, that simple fact is what intrigued me into trying them out in the first place. That throttle on incoming ISK seemed rather pointless to me unless they legitimately were attempting to ensure they can provide the 5%.
You both fail to see the point. Just because you have been receiving your interest every week for a few consecutive weeks does not necessarily mean that this will continue.It is a very good and smart strategy to provide such "not a scam" excuses such as investment throttling and enabling free withdrawls.
Yes I do agree, their website is great,their system very streamlined and high tech but I seriously doubt this will go on and on for the various reasons posted above.
They are aiming for a long term goal obviously.
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Rasz Lin
Caldari Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.05.17 16:45:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Virtue Maulerant
They are aiming for a long term goal obviously.
unless long term goal is isk laundering for RTM
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Khanid Voltar
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Posted - 2011.05.17 17:15:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Khanid Voltar on 17/05/2011 17:20:47
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
The problem with cumulative interest is that you lose control of the amount of capital you handle - it is only a matter of time until the interest payments push you past the point of profitability if you don't get your customers to cash out (assuming diminishing returns based on investment size for large investments).
I asked Mordor about this directly, I forget whether thats the exact spelling but he is co-CEO with Eddie. Phaser Inc is run by a bunch of dutch people who all know each other IRL from what I can ascertain.
Anyway, getting back to the point, they are aware that at some point they will have to cease cumulative interest payments, although when I pushed for specifics (several times I might add) I was merely told 'they continually review their model' and when the tipping point is reached they will adjust their model. I put a few suggestions to them (eg force investors to cash out or stop the effect being cummulative) and was told that is along the lines of what they might do. Again, wasn't given any specifics.
edit - they do also have a maximum investment amount to guard against this happening too quickly.
As Virtue has correctly pointed out, until you have received back your initial capital you cannot know whether Phaser Inc is trying to scam you. That is why, while I have investments with them, I will refrain from commenting on whether or not they are scamming as despite receiving regular, prompt interest payments I have yet to break even on the deal. I should reach my break even point in about 10 weeks or so, and will be happy to report back once that position is attained - not all of my investments are with this character so Phaser Inc should be unable to ensure just my accounts payments are met and hence receive favourable feedback from me on here.
Penultimate thing, Phaser Inc have never started a thread in MD trying to raise funds. The only time Phaser Inc ever comes up is when someone comes here asking about them. Hence I don't find it hard to understand why they refuse to jump through MD hoops, as the only reason they have ever posted here is in response to investor questions, not to be peer reviewed. By the same token I completely understand why traditional peer review in MD finds Phaser Inc's promises to be somewhat dubious.
Final thing, reference people who complain about Phaser Inc spam in local - you have a block button for a reason. Surely it is less effort to right mouse click and block, than come to eve-o forums and complain about being spammed? I mean, would you post in MD about someone spamming 'send me 1 isk, I'll send you 5 isk back' in Jita? Of course not - if you dont like it block the person doing it. Very very easy.
KV
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Sansmerci Da'qan
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Posted - 2011.08.11 04:21:00 -
[30]
If anyone still has concerns about Phaser Inc., check out their interview with XPOD: http://www.expandordie.com/news/archives/10 |
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