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Nypheas Azurai
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Posted - 2011.04.28 01:57:00 -
[1]
Can it be done? Everything I've found says not without some serious d-scan skills and a lot of time, but that seems to assume the can is on a path between two celestials.
Assuming it's in a "safe spot", can it be scanned down and warped to?
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Syberbolt8
Gallente Swallows And Amazons AAA Citizens
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Posted - 2011.04.28 02:00:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Nypheas Azurai Can it be done? Everything I've found says not without some serious d-scan skills and a lot of time, but that seems to assume the can is on a path between two celestials.
Assuming it's in a "safe spot", can it be scanned down and warped to?
With a D-Scanner, if its between 2 warp able objects, and you: A. like making a lot of bookmarks to warp past it and get closer, and B. have a fast ship, it is possible to get to a can in an SS, or anything for that matter as long as there are 2 warp points and it is between them somewhere. The Resurrection: Support the Revised Dead Horse Pos thread in Assembly Hall |
Nypheas Azurai
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Posted - 2011.04.28 02:50:00 -
[3]
Yes, but assuming it's in a "safe spot" meaning not between warpables, is 100% safe then (minus someone trying to slowboat for god knows how long) ?
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Syberbolt8
Gallente Swallows And Amazons AAA Citizens
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Posted - 2011.04.28 03:04:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Nypheas Azurai Yes, but assuming it's in a "safe spot" meaning not between warpables, is 100% safe then (minus someone trying to slowboat for god knows how long) ?
It is in my experience that most safe spots are between warp able objects, due to lazy SS creators or noobs making SS. This isn't always true but it happens more often then not.
However even if you can land close, you can slow boat to it, your scanner can be tuned to tell you about where its at. but a safe spot in the middle of no where like an old mission or an old scan site? Yeah your prob only going to find that if the guy who owns the can is there. The Resurrection: Support the Revised Dead Horse Pos thread in Assembly Hall |
Nypheas Azurai
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Posted - 2011.04.28 04:04:00 -
[5]
Cool thanks, that's what I needed to hear
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theRaptor
Caldari Tactical Operations
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Posted - 2011.04.28 09:13:00 -
[6]
There is no (legit) way to make a safe-spot that isn't "between" warpable locations. If it isn't on the direct path between celestial objects it is between bookmarks that where made between two celestial objects.
Back when there was no probes and only the d-scan people still managed to get to other peoples deep safe-spots.
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2011.04.28 09:50:00 -
[7]
Originally by: theRaptor There is no (legit) way to make a safe-spot that isn't "between" warpable locations.
IF you scan down a WH/radar/mag/grav/plex site it could be far away from warpable objects and not in the path of any.
Also as already mentioned, missions spawn outside the path of 2 warpable objects.
There are plenty of ways to make a SS that isn't between warpable objects.
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Gavjack Bunk
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.04.28 10:02:00 -
[8]
Thread inadvertently stumbles upon something else that should have been a Noctis ship bonus.
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theRaptor
Caldari Tactical Operations
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Posted - 2011.04.28 10:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: theRaptor There is no (legit) way to make a safe-spot that isn't "between" warpable locations.
IF you scan down a WH/radar/mag/grav/plex site it could be far away from warpable objects and not in the path of any.
Also as already mentioned, missions spawn outside the path of 2 warpable objects.
>.< I forgot about that. Been too long since I actually did this stuff. Normally when I made safes they were emergency safes and so I didn't have time to scan down temporary objects. |
HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.04.28 11:17:00 -
[10]
perhaps the 5th subsystem on the tech 3 cruisers could be a bonus that allows scanning of cargo containers with scan probes. CCP seems ignorant to this however
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Nypheas Azurai
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Posted - 2011.04.28 11:23:00 -
[11]
Originally by: theRaptor There is no (legit) way to make a safe-spot that isn't "between" warpable locations.
I'm pretty sure this isn't some super secret I just discovered, because it seems fairly obvious: 1) Open map 2) Find furthest most celestial object from any given object such that it does not lie on a straight line connecting any two other objects 3) Warp to object 4) Burn from object in a direction that is away from all other celestials.
Enjoy your new "legit" safe-spots that aren't between warpable locations and can only be discovered by either scan probes or slowboating onto the grid. If you don't feel like burning, you can also try logging and hope it warps you to a point that satisfies #3.
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Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
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Posted - 2011.04.28 20:14:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Nypheas Azurai
Enjoy your new "legit" safe-spots that aren't between warpable locations and can only be discovered by either scan probes or slowboating onto the grid. If you don't feel like burning, you can also try logging and hope it warps you to a point that satisfies #3.
You can still find that with d-scan. It is a bit complicated, but as long as the object you want to find is not too far outside and you have no angle to warp closer you can find it. In most systems if you are lucky there are plenty of anoms or sigs that give you the necessary bookmarks to find such cans.
But it is not easy and uses hours to track that thing down cause you have to adjust the warp in vector many times. But it is also fun if you don't do that on a daily basis -- please consider to visit our w-space system, cake will be served immediately. |
Col Callahan
Caldari Boogie Monsters
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Posted - 2011.04.28 20:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: HeliosGal perhaps the 5th subsystem on the tech 3 cruisers could be a bonus that allows scanning of cargo containers with scan probes. CCP seems ignorant to this however
CCP has done this on purpose. Its so that loanstar type players can live deep in 0.0 with out needing a tower that can be blown up. Theres a catch to this thou...you only get 3900 m3 to store your stuff and if you don't use it in like 3-6 months it goes "poof". . . . I heard you the last time. |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.04.28 20:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Col Callahan
Originally by: HeliosGal perhaps the 5th subsystem on the tech 3 cruisers could be a bonus that allows scanning of cargo containers with scan probes. CCP seems ignorant to this however
CCP has done this on purpose. Its so that loanstar type players can live deep in 0.0 with out needing a tower that can be blown up. Theres a catch to this thou...you only get 3900 m3 to store your stuff and if you don't use it in like 3-6 months it goes "poof".
30 days is the limit. You must visit and interact with the anchored can w/in that time frame. Yes, I have tested this.
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Nypheas Azurai
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Posted - 2011.04.29 05:54:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Karak Terrel You can still find that with d-scan.
I'm not saying you can't find it on d-scan. In fact if you couldn't I hear CCP gets angry at you and deletes your BMs. What I said is that my method of creating safespots means you can't ever warp to them (assuming you don't get probed while at it), so the only way to reach them is by slowboating out using your d-scan.
Now since d-scan only scans on a flat angle, it means the results could be *anywhere* above or below you at *any* distance; I don't think anyone is going to try to find that or has any chance of.
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2011.04.29 06:45:00 -
[16]
Originally by: theRaptor There is no (legit) way to make a safe-spot that isn't "between" warpable locations. If it isn't on the direct path between celestial objects it is between bookmarks that where made between two celestial objects.
but if you make 2 bookmarks in warp between warpable objects, then make bookmark between these 2 bookmarks, that bookmark won't be between any warpable objects. since when is that non legit?
maybe you meant a safe that is not within a largest possible polyhedron formed by the warpable celestial bodies? that could be the case...
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2011.04.29 06:54:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Nypheas Azurai Yes, but assuming it's in a "safe spot" meaning not between warpables, is 100% safe then (minus someone trying to slowboat for god knows how long) ?
in theory it's possible to get close enough to get to it with a ceptor in reasonable time.
but it's a very long process.
basically you need to make a kind of a 3d grid of bookmarks and determine inside which "cell" is the object located. then you divide the grid into smaller cells. for example if it's a cubic grid, then you have 8 BMs - the vertices of a cube inside which the object is located. this is easy to check with directional scanner from each of the vertices. so you make in-between BMs between cube vertices to make 8 smaller cubes inside the original cube and determine within which of the smaller cubes the object is. then repeat the same process with that smaller cube until close enough for inty slowboating.
this is first thing that comes to mind and probably there are much more efficient ways to do that. still i believe it will take considerable time - just think how much warping and bookmarking you will have to do for anything like this to work. I doubt there are anyone who would do that just in hopes of some good stuff in a random container...
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Nypheas Azurai
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Posted - 2011.04.29 07:35:00 -
[18]
I should clarify an earlier point I made: d-scan is not in fact a flat-scan, but is conical (or so I am to understand). So it may be possible to narrow down the heading of your scan results given camera skills.
Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe in theory it's possible to get close enough to get to it with a ceptor in reasonable time.
By definition it's only as reasonable as I allow it. What you do in your interceptor, I can do in mine. Which means if I decide to spend 24hrs AFK slowboating out into the void, then you need to also spend 24hrs to find me. But you can't AFK, you have to be actively scanning.
So as I said, it's possible. But reasonable, or practical? Absolutely not.
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2011.04.29 08:00:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 29/04/2011 08:03:31
Originally by: Nypheas Azurai
Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe in theory it's possible to get close enough to get to it with a ceptor in reasonable time.
By definition it's only as reasonable as I allow it. What you do in your interceptor, I can do in mine. Which means if I decide to spend 24hrs AFK slowboating out into the void, then you need to also spend 24hrs to find me. But you can't AFK, you have to be actively scanning.
So as I said, it's possible. But reasonable, or practical? Absolutely not.
if you move exactly off the face of the system polyhedron in the direction that heads outside of that polyhedron, then you are probably right. but if it's within the polyhedron it's won't take THAT long to find using directional scanner and lots of warping/in-warp bookmarking.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2011.04.29 09:34:00 -
[20]
Reminds me of spending a day MWD'ing towards that unanchored TCU - it was fun, and very rewarding when I found it - for about a day until it was destroyed
Secure 3rd party service | my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' |
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Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
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Posted - 2011.04.30 01:47:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe
basically you need to make a kind of a 3d grid of bookmarks and determine inside which "cell" is the object located.
Yeah, thats exactly what you need. if you have such a grid you can construct any "warp to angle" bookmarks. And it is always faster to get a bit closer with warp then with MWD. I mean if you tracked it down from 5mil km to 5000 km its only some scans away. Found every can i tried so far in under 3h all it needs is some basic sens of orientation and a good concept for naming bookmarks -- please consider to visit our w-space system, cake will be served immediately. |
Nypheas Azurai
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Posted - 2011.04.30 02:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Karak Terrel Found every can i tried so far in under 3h all it needs is some basic sens of orientation and a good concept for naming bookmarks
You won't find mine in under 3h :)
No matter how much orientation or bookmarks you have, using the method I explained above, you'll never be able to warp to it. The best you could ever hope for is to get an approximate direction and a very vague range (and even then you'd have to be really good at triangulation).
Unless like Chribba you are willing to MWD out for a day, you'll never find it. But even then I can just make a BM that's 2 days out, 3 days, 4 days...
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Erichk Knaar
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.04.30 03:51:00 -
[23]
Old school Observator crew checking in.
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Mortania
Minmatar No Compromise Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.04.30 04:22:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Nypheas Azurai
Originally by: Karak Terrel Found every can i tried so far in under 3h all it needs is some basic sens of orientation and a good concept for naming bookmarks
You won't find mine in under 3h :)
No matter how much orientation or bookmarks you have, using the method I explained above, you'll never be able to warp to it. The best you could ever hope for is to get an approximate direction and a very vague range (and even then you'd have to be really good at triangulation).
Unless like Chribba you are willing to MWD out for a day, you'll never find it. But even then I can just make a BM that's 2 days out, 3 days, 4 days...
Nah, they killed all that. You can't put anything that far out anymore.
From our dear nerfing friend, CCP Greyscale: http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=753
You're wasting your time going out that far. Anything more than about 1-2 days out is all you can do (this assumes you're not wasting your time with a slow ship).
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Nypheas Azurai
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Posted - 2011.04.30 05:35:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Mortania From our dear nerfing friend, CCP Greyscale: http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=753
That's what I mean when I said "CCP would get mad", but who knows if it still applies anymore? Even still, I doubt a few days will get you out to 20AU from the furthest object, and 1-2 days is well enough to guarantee no one is going to try to find a cargo container that won't even last that long!
Maybe I can make a challenge out of this... place a cargo container with something in it and see who can find it. I doubt anyone will!
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2011.04.30 12:05:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 30/04/2011 12:13:52 Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 30/04/2011 12:12:49
Originally by: Mortania From our dear nerfing friend, CCP Greyscale: http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=753
You're wasting your time going out that far. Anything more than about 1-2 days out is all you can do (this assumes you're not wasting your time with a slow ship).
if that blog is accurate (e.g. implemented as described and was not fixed later somehow else) then it means that some old BMs should be still inaccessible by warping (probably even impossible to see with a directional scanner unless you have another old school deep BM in a lucky location), and it's indeed possible to make such BMs, albeit not as far as old "fixed" BMs can be.
for the record, it would take about 16 years to cover 20 AU at 6 km/sec.
hint: celestials in EVE do not move, but that blog ONLY cared about distance from the star. so if the deep space BM was to the other side of star than all the warpable objects, and then moved to 20AU from sun, then it can't be reached by warping between warpable objects.
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