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Asketus
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Posted - 2011.04.30 12:06:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Asketus on 30/04/2011 12:06:50 Hi. Any hope for a (simple) cockpit mode and/or joystick now ? I found nothing new about this old question...
Asketus
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Marchocias
Snatch Victory
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Posted - 2011.04.30 12:18:00 -
[2]
Eve just doesn't work in a way that would allow for satisfatory "twitch" control.
The game ticks at 1 update per second, so making your control smooth would be incredibly difficult.
Plus, the physics and movement mechanics are setup in a very simple way to allow massive fights to scale up well. Twitch control reuires lots of little messages to be constantly sent to the server, whereas currently you only need to send one message (eg, "align to x" or "orbit x at y"). ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
shady trader
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Posted - 2011.04.30 13:20:00 -
[3]
Have a look in the commonly proposed idea's thread for Joystick control and why we are unlikely to ever see it. Also read the back story of the Jove wet grave for why there is not a cockpit. Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congratulated by carebears for the actions. |
Kara Sharalien
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.04.30 14:19:00 -
[4]
To put the final nail in the coffin, I'd like to remind you that you are in command of this, not flying this.
The former is not generally controlled by joystick.
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shado20
EXTERMINATUS. Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.05.09 05:12:00 -
[5]
i dont see eve ever using a joystick, though, it would be intresting to see for free flight, rather than clicking up, click over to move around objects.
as for cockpits, i would think if this was something to go after, to put in not a cockpit, but a bridge. like in startrek, you know there the captain chair is and is commanding the ship. even the captain of this can look out the forward or side windows of his ship from inside. but as eve alredy has it, we are POD pilets, not much to see as we are in a POD.
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bronx187
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Posted - 2011.05.29 15:54:00 -
[6]
Originally by: shado20 i dont see eve ever using a joystick, though, it would be intresting to see for free flight, rather than clicking up, click over to move around objects.
as for cockpits, i would think if this was something to go after, to put in not a cockpit, but a bridge. like in startrek, you know there the captain chair is and is commanding the ship. even the captain of this can look out the forward or side windows of his ship from inside. but as eve alredy has it, we are POD pilets, not much to see as we are in a POD.
I agree with the bridge function and how cool would it be to sit in your captains chair navigating trough the universe maybe a combat bridge would also be a option?
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Katrina Cortez
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Posted - 2011.05.29 16:07:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Katrina Cortez on 29/05/2011 16:07:00 The bridge idea seems cool at first.. now imagine you sitting in a chair looking out into space that is the size of an index card. Its just not practical especially under the current game mechanics. I play star trek online. They have bridges and captains chairs you can sit in, even they dont do it for just this reason.
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Avrien
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Posted - 2011.05.29 16:56:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Avrien on 29/05/2011 16:59:56 you guys are forgetting a joystick is just a controller. It doesn't matter one iota that the ship doesn't use one. There is no reason to not have joystick controls if you want.
They can just allow joystick like you would with mouse. it is another x y axis controller. The mouse could be the third or the little one on top of another controller.(if you use it for steering.) And you can use it for control. just use the current control speeds and have it turn like a mouse points so many degrees or something and alot for fine controls. First person. Strap the camera to points on the hull. Any space flying person should have the option to do that. The idea you need a cockpit is irrelevant. You just need one front node(and I would recommend many nodes around the surface you can move to quickly.)
I would prefer if there were joystick control. Even though I don't normally use one. I would probably go get one for this.
And they dont have to change the game to add one. plug in all the buttons to controls or let someone decide in options(preferable obviously). The only thing you might need to address is how to allow the ship with the joysticks xy axis control. That just has to be given a method WITHIN the current games controls. They could either devise a new one based on the speed calculation or simply strap in a generic partial mouse click system. Either would probably be easy.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.29 17:15:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Avrien There is no reason to not have joystick controls if you want.
Yes there is: the server operates at 1Hz, and the fine control you want ù the reason you'd want to use a joystick ù can't really be had at that update frequency.
Joysticks are used for continuous input and the game simply does not support that. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.05.29 18:30:00 -
[10]
EvE is a 'Point and Click to Move' MMO. There, I said it.
What is really sad, is I despise that method in any other mmo.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
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Halbert Vector
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Posted - 2011.05.29 22:16:00 -
[11]
I'm amazed something this hasn't been done already. Nobody expects "twitch" gameplay, most ships in eve are way too big to work like that anyway. A more immediate or precise way of controlling the variables available to you however is always a good thing, even in a slow-paced sort of situation.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.29 22:40:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Halbert Vector I'm amazed something this hasn't been done already. Nobody expects "twitch" gameplay, most ships in eve are way too big to work like that anyway. A more immediate or precise way of controlling the variables available to you however is always a good thing, even in a slow-paced sort of situation.
Again: because it wouldn't be a more precise or immediate control. You'd still only have your direction set once a second, and all you'd effectively do would be to drive the mouse pointer with your joystick. If you want to do that, there's already a better tool: the mouse itself. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Halbert Vector
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Posted - 2011.05.29 22:52:00 -
[13]
the mouse isn't better at that at all, you have to click hundreds of times and it's much more difficult to modify your velocity relative to itself. If I want to turn my target velocity a little bit higher or a little bit lower I have to guess where it currently is first
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EnderCapitalG
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.30 00:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Halbert Vector the mouse isn't better at that at all, you have to click hundreds of times and it's much more difficult to modify your velocity relative to itself. If I want to turn my target velocity a little bit higher or a little bit lower I have to guess where it currently is first
And how do you plan on targetting somebody, activating weapons, activating webs/points or activating hardeners/damage control/etc all with a joystick that has 3 maybe 4 buttons?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.30 01:04:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Halbert Vector the mouse isn't better at that at all, you have to click hundreds of times
You will need to click once a second, and the joystick will have to do it as well. Or, you only need to click onceà
You still seem to visualise a situation where you give subtle control inputs to your ship. The problem is: EVE doesn't work that way. You'll provide a vector once a second ù that's it. It will not be a smooth movement.
Quote: it's much more difficult to modify your velocity relative to itself.
How so? Changing the speed is very easy; guessing your current vector is also pretty easy. Moreover, you're unlikely to know the exact timing, you'll never be certain exactly which vector is being sent to the server, so you might actually end up with less control with a joystick. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Corina's Bodyguard
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Posted - 2011.05.30 02:19:00 -
[16]
Originally by: EnderCapitalG
Originally by: Halbert Vector the mouse isn't better at that at all, you have to click hundreds of times and it's much more difficult to modify your velocity relative to itself. If I want to turn my target velocity a little bit higher or a little bit lower I have to guess where it currently is first
And how do you plan on targetting somebody, activating weapons, activating webs/points or activating hardeners/damage control/etc all with a joystick that has 3 maybe 4 buttons?
My joystick has 22 buttons, and 3 modes, so effectively 66.
But still, IMO this is not a really good idea and would cause more frustration than fun. To get an idea of what EVE would be like, find a game that you get 1fps in and use a joystick to play it.
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Katrina Cortez
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Posted - 2011.05.30 19:32:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Katrina Cortez on 30/05/2011 19:37:54
Originally by: Tippia
Joysticks are used for continuous input and the game simply does not support that.
Not necessarily true... there are many types of joysticks. I can use my digitizer pad as a mouse control and i have a special joystick that works with eve... It is called a 3d striker made by QuickShot and it is basically a keyboard/joystick hybrid. They dont make them anymore but you might find one on ebay or be able to build something similar.
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Darth Helmat
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Posted - 2011.05.30 23:13:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Avrien There is no reason to not have joystick controls if you want.
Yes there is: the server operates at 1Hz, and the fine control you want ù the reason you'd want to use a joystick ù can't really be had at that update frequency.
It depends on how its implemented. At present I can spam double-click-in-space and probably get 2 "align to" operations per second.
You could implement the joystick method to do the same - the x-y axis selects the point in space and clicking a button does the align-to. If server load goes up too high because 1000 ships are spamming it, then offending clients could be told to throttle (which would lag abusers).
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Uncle Lenny
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.05.31 01:41:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kara Sharalien To put the final nail in the coffin, I'd like to remind you that you are in command of this, not flying this.
The former is not generally controlled by joystick.
How do you know hes not flying a Raven?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.31 06:06:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Darth Helmat It depends on how its implemented. At present I can spam double-click-in-space and probably get 2 "align to" operations per second.
The problem is that no matter how many you spam, only one will matter to the server.
If a joystick is polled 1,000 times a second, still only one will matter to the server. All you end up doing is drive the mouse pointer and giving the server one vector per second, and you will have precious little control over exactly which vector this will be.
Quote: Katrina CortezIt is called a 3D Striker made by QuickShot. They dont make them anymore but you might find one on ebay or be able to build something similar. The electronics inside are exactly the same as keyboard... the x-y axis of the joystick are essentially pressing keys on the keyboard. Then you map this output to a mouse emulator. This isnt quite the option you are looking for tho... this isnt going to give you fluid motion. You are just trading a joystick for a mouse... but you could combine this with some macro software. Macro mouse move left, then click...etc. It would take some work but i am sure it could be done but the mouse is still your best option.
Exactly. If all you're doing is driving the mouse, there's already a perfect tool for that: the mouse. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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kerradeph
Gallente Penumbra Military Industrial Complex
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Posted - 2011.05.31 06:10:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Uncle Lenny
Originally by: Kara Sharalien To put the final nail in the coffin, I'd like to remind you that you are in command of this, not flying this.
The former is not generally controlled by joystick.
How do you know hes not flying a Raven?
take a look at the size of a frigate. I'm pretty sure even shuttles are larger than the ship that was posted.
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Darth Helmat
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Posted - 2011.05.31 19:46:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Darth Helmat It depends on how its implemented. At present I can spam double-click-in-space and probably get 2 "align to" operations per second.
The problem is that no matter how many you spam, only one will matter to the server.
If a joystick is polled 1,000 times a second, still only one will matter to the server. All you end up doing is drive the mouse pointer and giving the server one vector per second, and you will have precious little control over exactly which vector this will be.
You didn't read my post properly. The client can poll the joystick as much as it likes, but only clicking the button triggers an align-to. Its just replacing the mouse function, but using the joystick instead of the 'point' bit of point and click....
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.31 21:12:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Darth Helmat You didn't read my post properly. The client can poll the joystick as much as it likes, but only clicking the button triggers an align-to. Its just replacing the mouse function, but using the joystick instead of the 'point' bit of point and click....
àyes, but you also said that you could get more align commands out of it, and you can't.
And as mentioned, if all you're doing is driving the mouse, then the mouse is the better option. The whole point of using a joystick over a mouse is the notion that you'll go in the direction you're pointing the stick, but at 1Hz, that will be very imprecise. So either you get a (bad) simulation of a better solution, or you get imprecise input. Neither sounds particularly advantageous. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Qulticaret Pic
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Posted - 2011.05.31 23:32:00 -
[24]
I don't want a joystick mode, these are large ships not fighter craft after all, I would like more control in the direction that the ship travels. I can't remember how many times I've gotten the ship to where I want it to be and oriented it in the direction I want to travel clicked on orbit and had the ship turn and head in exactly the wrong direction from where I wanted ot to go.
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Darth Helmat
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Posted - 2011.06.01 19:02:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Darth Helmat You didn't read my post properly. The client can poll the joystick as much as it likes, but only clicking the button triggers an align-to. Its just replacing the mouse function, but using the joystick instead of the 'point' bit of point and click....
àyes, but you also said that you could get more align commands out of it, and you can't.
I intimated that the client could throttle the command rate if >1 click per second was made...
Originally by: Tippia
And as mentioned, if all you're doing is driving the mouse, then the mouse is the better option. The whole point of using a joystick over a mouse is the notion that you'll go in the direction you're pointing the stick,
Thats a perspective issue, as well as a client end cleverness issue. The mouse is highly imprecise, arguments between two imprecise things come down to user preference, IMO. You could easily imagine a situation with a 1st person perspective, not too many ships on grid and good client prediction, that was almost 'the real thing'. If you wanted to try this in a massive fleet fight, that would probably be god damn awful!
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Tubares Shting
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Posted - 2011.06.01 19:26:00 -
[26]
Originally by: kerradeph
Originally by: Uncle Lenny
Originally by: Kara Sharalien To put the final nail in the coffin, I'd like to remind you that you are in command of this, not flying this.
The former is not generally controlled by joystick.
How do you know hes not flying a Raven?
take a look at the size of a frigate. I'm pretty sure even shuttles are larger than the ship that was posted.
Pretty sure that a shuttle is smaller than a 747. For instance, an Amarr Shuttle has a long axis of 34m, while a 747 has a long axis of 70.6-76.25m. In comparison, a naval battleship of today's navies is going to be somewhere in the vicinity of 120m long. Also, Nimitz class aircraft carriers are about 335m long, which is slightly smaller than a Raven at 500m long axis.
So, a shuttle is significantly smaller than the battleship that was posted (and significantly larger than the fighter plane that was linked.) Twitch controls of something that large are pretty much useless.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five Split Infinity.
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Posted - 2011.06.02 16:08:00 -
[27]
Anyone have a G13 gamepad? I use it for pretty much all my PC games, and the analogue thumb stick would be perfect for steering small fast frigates like the Dramiel. You still use a mouse, so clicking and looking around and steering could be accomplished by the mouse and the analogue stick.
They could still keep the 1 tick per second interval, but give us a "strafe right, strafe left, reverse thrusters, forward thrusters, right-click to steer" type movement, like they have in Incarna already with the characters.
For large battleships, this type of movement won't really be used as much because they really do move incredibly slow, and they usually change direction infrequently. Fast interceptors however would really benefit (and look much cooler) with this type of motion. Remember the Dominion trailer, with the command ship weaving through the fleet?
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