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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.01 14:45:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Nypheas Azurai Are there any plans to make the site IGB-friendly? I think this will increase its long-term success.
e.g. - use IGB for registrations: gather character name from headers, generate password directly in the browser, remove the need for external email/sign-up - automate adding of funds: e.g. a showInfo() pop on the recipient, or if CCP ever get to implementing a giveMoney() - anything else that streamlines the casino without the player needing to leave game.
1)The casino works using the IGB now so i'm not clear on your first point. 2)Yes to your second point. We do plan on using the IGB 'trust' system to gather registrations instead of the current email-driven signup system. 3) The API is already running every 30 minutes with automated deposits. At present the API does not support sending money back to players in game from the casino. There's nothing I can do on that front unless CCP adds that functionality. 4) Streamlining is good. Zeeawk and I chat daily about improvements to the casino.
Originally by: Chakirari I think not needing an email would be a good idea.
Either way, isk sent.
Agreed. Isk received! thanks. [ Casino | Loans ] |
RAW23
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Posted - 2011.05.01 15:01:00 -
[92]
Edited by: RAW23 on 01/05/2011 15:01:17 Did my first comment somehow offend you so much that you have decided not to respond to anything I post, other than to call me an ignorant idiot?
Let's try again:
Originally by: RAW23
If you choose to stop playing or stop running the casino without selling it, will the investors receive any of their investment back? You haven't asnwered this question but it seems to me to be an important one. If not, then the point I made in my first post stands: in order for an investor to make any profit on this investment the business will either have to be sold at some point (for a price that is at least equivalent to the 1 tril valuation minus any dividends paid before that point) or it will have to run for several years to first break even, with only the subsequent dividends counting as profit, before closing down without a payout. Alternatively, investors will earn some dividends and then sell the shares but this just moves the issue onto the new purchaser. Running for several years and finding a buyer both seem like reasonable possible outcomes but as it stands there is a significant gap in your offering in that you do not cover what happens if neither of these eventualities come to pass.
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Nypheas Azurai
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Posted - 2011.05.01 15:04:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
1)The casino works using the IGB now so i'm not clear on your first point. 2)Yes to your second point. We do plan on using the IGB 'trust' system to gather registrations instead of the current email-driven signup system. 3) The API is already running every 30 minutes with automated deposits. At present the API does not support sending money back to players in game from the casino. There's nothing I can do on that front unless CCP adds that functionality. 4) Streamlining is good. Zeeawk and I chat daily about improvements to the casino.
To clarify, what I mean by 'works with the IGB' is to not only display in the IGB, but take advantage of the built-in functions.
Registration currently looks like this: >Go to Rothbard's. > Enter external email. >Wait for mail >Login
Many players get turned off by 2nd and 3rd step, so what I'd hope to see is: >Go to Rothbard's. >Pilot name detected by IGB, password automatically generated. >Login
In terms of automating funds, I mean to say, have the "Deposit ISK" pop-up your character info page, which makes access to "Give Money" much more foolproof and streamlined. Later if CCP implement giveMoney() method you guys can use this to completely fill out all the fields for a deposit.
In any event, I'm glad that you guys are continually working on Rothbard's. Put me down for 1 share, ISK sent.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.
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Posted - 2011.05.01 15:34:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard A couple minutes later he called me a scammer and block me from the SCC lounge. He was so busy mashing the reply button he never even read my IPO info. His later 'questions' are nothing more than trolling. I will not respond to him.
Good job of mashing up the real version of what happened. The fact that you went out and call my question (which was considered to be legitimate by some posters here) trolling only goes to show that you're avoiding them.
Investor Relation | BSAC SE Listing |
Candy Oshea
Amarr Techfree Investment Group
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Posted - 2011.05.01 15:56:00 -
[95]
Isk sent for 1 more share
Total 200m. (2 shares)
Chump change i know. i just re-invested the months invention profits back into invention/production supplies i may have some more liquid available tommorrow. but if it sells out ill be sure in buy in one the next lot of shares.
so may i tentatively reserve one more? of not its coolios.
Cheers.
p.s. no i don;t want that phoenix BPO :p ___ iCandy Bonds
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.01 16:12:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
I understand the limited window provided by the API. I would still like to know what is contained within that window.
Just to be crystal clear here: my entire business is predicated on trust. There has never been nor will there ever be any sort of way to strucutre this investment such that investors are secured. I'm being very upfront and honest about that. I'm not going to purchase 1T isk in BPOs that we can lock them down in a corp hangar somewhere so everyone can feel good about themselves.
My casino is successful because of the very high level of trust players have in me. This extends to my loan business as well to the limited number of 3rd party services i've performed for other people. If I do something to ruin my trustworthiness in the community all of that goes away. There's no amount golden eggs you could tempt me with for me to kill the goose.
If you don't trust me or have even a hint that you think i'm going to defraud you then I would strongly suggest that you not buy any shares. An audit will show the transactions, but it's not going to make your investment in anyway more or secure. [ Casino | Loans ] |
Blueprint Seller
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Posted - 2011.05.01 16:17:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Originally by: Blueprint Seller I understand that you and I have a difference of opinion about what constitutes public funds.
If a player deposits money it goes into their casino account it is still their money. I am merely holding it for them. If they then wager that money at the blackjack tables and lose it's now my money. It's no longer public funds if they wager and lose.
So what is their money in the period after it leaves their wallet and enters yours but before they wager it?
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard Rothbard's is running on 0b in public funds
How does that match up with this quote?
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
Can you provide historical and maximum figures for your player account balance? That is to say the historical total of public money you have held within the casino and the maximum level that has reached?
My guess is that intraday there have been times where the balance has been maybe as high as 5b or so. That figure varies a lot especially at busy times of the day and even more so if there are a number high stakes players at the tables.
Is that a yes or a no? Do you have these figures? Are you willing to provide them?
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Originally by: Blueprint Seller
Can you also provide the historical and maximum figures for your loan business?
I think the most i've had out concurrently for loans is approx 3b. To be clear that was me lending other pilots 3b isk spread across a number of collateralized loans. My loans are over collateralized as I only deal with high quality collateral and I only offer 75% LTV. I have never had a default.
Is that a yes or a no? Do you have these figures? Are you willing to provide them?
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard
Originally by: Blueprint Seller What are your theoretical and historical payout percentages?
I guess this question is not at all clear to me. Do you want the EV vs actual value for each of the games with a breakdown for each?
I would like the payout percentages. Isk paid out in prizes divided by isk wagered expressed as a percentage. I would like it broken down per game type with both your theoretical values and the actual historical values for the period the casino has been operating.
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard I've already stated that it's working as intended. Can you explain why it is you need this data beyond what i've already provided?
Because it will go some way to telling me if you are capable of running a profitable casino over a long period of time. At the moment all I know is that you have been running a casino for a few months. I do not know if it has been profitable because there is no available data. I cannot even guess if it will be profitable for the lifespan of the investment because there is no available data.
The only number I have that is in any way verified is your wallet balance. That wallet balance causes me more issues because I am not sure why you have it. What is the function of having 100b+ in your wallet? The function it is being used for at the moment is to help you sell shares in your casino. Surely you can see where this would lead me?
I can accept the limitations of the data you have available to you. I can accept the limitations of the data available from the API. So do you have these figures? Do you have any figures? Are you willing to provide them?
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egola
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.01 16:28:00 -
[98]
Edited by: egola on 01/05/2011 16:29:27 Alright people, hopefully this won't fall on deaf ears......hopefully most of MD will understand my viewpoint (which falls fairly standard to the MD community) and how it changed based on a few things.
first off, theres an inherent misunderstanding with the MD mind-set. we're not used to Meta bonds such as a casino bonds. Casinos DONT have a physical value as theres quite literally NO assets involved, people throw isk at it to get something of value, the isk is then redistributed to hand out prizes with the left over distributed between whoever is involved(i.e. roth and his co-captain). there is NO ACTUAL ISK LANDING ON THE CASINO.
what i HIGHLY suspect is going on is people are saying TL:DR (which i hope thats not the case for my post) and not realizing that hes ONLY offering up 200 SHARES, not the full 10,000.
the 1T value is NOT valued from any assets the casino has. rather from Roth's assessment of his casino's ability to print-isk as a casino, the value itself is sort of arbitrary but its derived from future isk that roth is expected to make as well as the value of these shares themselves(think of Roth's casino growth). most of you are looking at it from the standard MD POV wondering wheres 1T worth of collat?, STOP that. Hedge it against its current value of 20b. is 20b worth roth throwing away the reputation of his casino? would it eventually reach more then 20b worth of value? will the interest, casino growth, and any possible side income deriving from this be worth it once its over? as always invest at your own caution and leisure.
hes gonna implement this whole operation in several stages, each stage creating a higher value then the last probably based on accumulated interest+casino growth. and once again judge it based on your belief on how high up it'll grow.
many of you are hedging it up against a similar stock deal made by Malcorian Vandsteidt's thread here DONT! thats a huge mistake, roth has displayed his ability to make isk time and again(chribba, audits,etc someone please confirm) while malcorian's was unconfirmed and primarily based on his dealing with a corp war (didn't seem to be a long term deal worth 150b, etc, etc not gonna argue the nature of the other thread on someone else's thread).
i was initially like the lot of you, i didn't read the OP, i only thought "COOL! Roth has a new ipo *throws isk" until people kept saying 1T this 1T that which made me wonder wth are they talking about? long story short i chickened out on investing into it until i looked into it a bit further. i then reread it and it actually reads 200 shares being sold as opposed to the full thing, which i had to question myself as to why. and THATS my conclusion(points at above)
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.01 16:33:00 -
[99]
At this point Blueprint Seller it's clear that you have signifcant trust concerns about my IPO. I do not believe that i'm going to be able to answer your questions to your satisfaction. I see that you are getting to the point of just wanting to split hairs. I already aknowledged that the 2b in player accounts that I hold in my wallet should be counted as a liability. You want to beat a dead horse. I'm not interested in such a debate.
My best advice to you at this point is to not send me any isk. In fact if you do I will return it because I don't believe you will be happy. Maybe in 6 months with continued revenue growth and timely dividend payments you will feel more comfortable. Maybe not.
I've done my best to answer your questions, but there's not much more I can add.
[ Casino | Loans ] |
Blueprint Seller
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Posted - 2011.05.01 17:01:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard At this point Blueprint Seller it's clear that you have signifcant trust concerns about my IPO. I do not believe that i'm going to be able to answer your questions to your satisfaction.
Please try.
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard I see that you are getting to the point of just wanting to split hairs. I already aknowledged that the 2b in player accounts that I hold in my wallet should be counted as a liability. You want to beat a dead horse. I'm not interested in such a debate.
That was a point that I myself said was not worth labouring.
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard Maybe in 6 months with continued revenue growth and timely dividend payments you will feel more comfortable. Maybe not.
Will you be willing to answer my questions and provide figures in 6 months time?
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard I've done my best to answer your questions, but there's not much more I can add.
You have left many of them unanswered. Many of them only required a yes or no response. Are you sure that is the best you can do?
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.05.01 17:30:00 -
[101]
Bumping an unanswered question.
Originally by: RAW23 Edited by: RAW23 on 01/05/2011 15:01:17 Did my first comment somehow offend you so much that you have decided not to respond to anything I post, other than to call me an ignorant idiot?
Let's try again:
Originally by: RAW23
If you choose to stop playing or stop running the casino without selling it, will the investors receive any of their investment back? You haven't asnwered this question but it seems to me to be an important one. If not, then the point I made in my first post stands: in order for an investor to make any profit on this investment the business will either have to be sold at some point (for a price that is at least equivalent to the 1 tril valuation minus any dividends paid before that point) or it will have to run for several years to first break even, with only the subsequent dividends counting as profit, before closing down without a payout. Alternatively, investors will earn some dividends and then sell the shares but this just moves the issue onto the new purchaser. Running for several years and finding a buyer both seem like reasonable possible outcomes but as it stands there is a significant gap in your offering in that you do not cover what happens if neither of these eventualities come to pass.
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Myra2007
Millstone Industries
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Posted - 2011.05.01 17:47:00 -
[102]
Is this thread an example of you following the Martin Luther King Jr. way? --
Originally by: CCP Elais
It was a great Frankenstein moment [...] to see the forum [...] come alive.
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Alex Stokes
Erben der Nacht WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.05.01 17:49:00 -
[103]
@RAW Thx for clearing things up for me. Roadrunner's Lottery - Choose your odds; NOT another "ticked-based" lotto - No need to wait for others. |
gnomer
TBAC corp
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Posted - 2011.05.01 18:28:00 -
[104]
Interesting approach to answering questions. Ones you don't like you ignore or divert, or accues people of trolling.
Summary of some Important Questions, as a potential investor could you attempt to answer:
1. What is the payout percentage on slots?
2. If you decide to stop running casino, how will investors be affected?
3. Has a thrid party audited your database, confirming your results and profits?
4. Is the entire investment based on trust, or will you be having an audit?
5. How much time do you both spend running the casino each week? Including payout time ingame?
6. As you are making so much money from this casinoe, why do you need investors diluting your earnings?
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.05.01 19:30:00 -
[105]
Originally by: gnomer Interesting approach to answering questions. Ones you don't like you ignore or divert, or accues people of trolling.
yes.
Originally by: gnomer
Summary of some Important Questions, as a potential investor could you attempt to answer:
1) last I checked we didn't have slots. the vig on the games we do offer range from 0.15% to approx 25%.
2) perpetuity. If perpetuity comes to an end we'll re-evaluate. pretty sure I mentioned this in the original posts.
3) my business model is based on trust. audting the database serves no purpose because the numbers could simply be changed to whatever. No there won't be an audit of the database.
4) I've stated repeatedly that my entire venture is based on trust. If you are looking for collateralized investments you will want to look elsewhere.
5) I never sleep. I only log out because they turn off the servers for a bit each day. Come spend a day or three in casino chat to see how much i'm around.
6) I get paid for my earnings now instead of later. I take a haircut for that. There are ancillary benefits to selling shares. [ Casino | Loans ] |
Saf Snafu
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Posted - 2011.05.01 19:55:00 -
[106]
On a personal note, my reason for this, my first investment, is quite simply that it is based on my ingame interactions with Edwin and the people in his casino chat. I can understand concerns with ROI and percentage returns, etc., but in the end this is just a game... and "if you can't afford to lose it don't fly it" applies to this as well. So, ya, i'm just going on trust and instinct, but win some lose some... it's just a game
saf (don't know why the smiley's lip is moving, but it amuses me)
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Brynj Spirum
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Posted - 2011.05.01 20:02:00 -
[107]
To provide some numbers for context to Raw's excellent point and to put behind this "won't someone think of the children" crap when it comes to gambling, I assume everyone saw the Majesta empire theft.
Over 670 billion in isk and items were stolen. Lets assume all of that was paid for in selling gtc ingame. In current gtc to isk value that's about 30k dollars. Can someone tell me where I file charges against the thief? Can I sue CCP for my corps missing funds? After all, CCP condones stealing and scamming. Some of you are taking internet spaceships WAY to seriously.
As for the so called 'confusion' over this being either a 20 billion isk investment or a trillion isk one, there isn't any. Yes this offering is only 20 billion isk, no real alarms going off there with his wallet. But just metioning the one trillion isk value screams this a rep grind and in a few months time time the next opportunity will be for 150 billion and then maybe another 250 billion after that. Now we're talking walk away funds. He would have been better not mentioning it at all.
As for myself I hold no opinion if this is legit or not. I don't ask for money or invest my own. Though I do find it funny needing 20 billion while having that amount of cash reserves in his own personal wallet or that that high of a daily profit.
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Saf Snafu
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Posted - 2011.05.01 20:25:00 -
[108]
I agree, and am going on the "plays well with others" and "shares his toys" scenario. If it doesn't work out, i get to brag about how i got ripped off... i missed doing so on T4u, and the others.... :)
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Jean Baptiste Johansson
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Posted - 2011.05.01 20:45:00 -
[109]
Edwin,
Put me down for 10 shares. Will send ISK in a bit.
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Bad Bobby
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.01 21:05:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard I noticed BB made an appearance in this thread. Maybe ask him how solid of a scam idea that is since he's an expert on the subject.
While I do not believe that I am anywhere near an expert on the subject of scamming, I would agree that I have some experience relevant to this discussion. Since my opinion has been requested I will respond.
I believe that this is a scam in progress. I also believe that it will be a succesfull scam.
My one piece of advice to you, for what it is worth, would be to move away from the Block Ukx school of PR. Do not allow the questions posed here to harm your reputation, instead use them to strengthen it. Some of these questions were great oppertunities to win over a section of your audience that you had not already captured. While I grant that the amount of isk in the hands of the more risk adverse EVE players may not seem worth the effort to grab when compared to the low hanging fruit, it is my experience that a little effort exerted here in the early stages pays off great dividends as time goes on.
Of course, you know your plan better than I and therefore this advice may be entirely irrelevant. Please take it as it is intended: A cap doffed from one scammer to another.
Originally by: Saf Snafu If it doesn't work out, i get to brag about how i got ripped off... i missed doing so on T4u, and the others.... :)
It is never too late to buy T4U shares. How many do you want?
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Khanid Voltar
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Posted - 2011.05.01 21:16:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Bad Bobby
My one piece of advice to you, for what it is worth, would be to move away from the Block Ukx school of PR.
From someone who doesn't necessarily think this is a scam, I would second this advice. You have been far too defensive for someone that has been a regular on MD for a while.
I understand that you feel slighted in some way by various things said and done... but be the better man.
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Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
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Posted - 2011.05.01 21:26:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Saf Snafu If it doesn't work out, i get to brag about how i got ripped off... i missed doing so on T4u, and the others.... :)
The last time I said that, it turned out to be a scam. Moral of the story: never jinx yourself.
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Jean Baptiste Johansson
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Posted - 2011.05.01 21:41:00 -
[113]
ISK sent in the name of corp.
High-Tech Duct Tape |
Bababoee
Amarr Contractual Obligations DRACONIAN COVENANT
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Posted - 2011.05.01 22:32:00 -
[114]
Reserve 5 shares for me please. Will send isk next time I log on.
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Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2011.05.01 23:02:00 -
[115]
The really interesting question here is if it's possible to grow a virtual currency website casino big with lent virtual currency, sell the real life website for real life profit and run with the in game ISK on top. All seems perfectly legal (== allowed within the respective environment) to me.
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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2011.05.02 01:34:00 -
[116]
Unsecured 20b loan.. Snarky and pompous asshatery to potential investors.. Use of manipulative Green text. Seems legit!
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Tak149
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.02 01:47:00 -
[117]
Reserve 5 shares for me. Isk soon.
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2011.05.02 01:57:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Syds Sinclair Unsecured 20b loan.. Snarky and pompous asshatery to potential investors.. Use of manipulative Green text. Seems legit!
It appears this offering has passed all the flags needed to be filled.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.02 07:29:00 -
[119]
I hate using cliched meme's but this is such a cliche I will relent today. Obvious scam is obvious.
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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2011.05.02 08:01:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Syds Sinclair Unsecured 20b loan.. Snarky and pompous asshatery to potential investors.. Use of manipulative Green text. Seems legit!
..I'm not saying this is a scam. Let's assume for argument's sake that you run a very successful casino. I'll go on the record as stating that if I were the type of degen gambler who would participate in an -EV type of game I would deposit with your casino.
Now onto the what I consider to be the real beef with your offering.
Motive.
So as you report, you make..
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard 1.15 billion ISK per day.
..and so far have made..
Originally by: Edwin Rothbard To date the casino has net profits in excess of 141 billion ISK. Daily profits are growing steadily.
Logically, one would say, "you have in excess of 141b isk in profits, and make 1.15b in profits every day, why not just wait 14 or so days and not pay intrest?"
Obvious answer is that you would like to expand on this offering, and in the future try to get more isk from investors.
Why? What is your long term goals? Why do you want/need to have a public offering which will no doubt exceed 141b+ in the future?
Your reasons might be legit, or might not be. But the 800lb elephant in the room is why is a person in possession of a platinum goose rep grinding?
That being said, I have no doubt that this offering, and all future ones, will be filled. I mean, come on, you have 100+b in your wallet! John Q McUneducatedinvestors will be throwing their isk at you.
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