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Sooplex
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.19 15:18:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Sooplex on 19/05/2011 15:24:52
Originally by: Ilfort Oh, I'm not complaining about that. In all honesty I don't really care. I just think it's a silly excuse for a war.
Thankyou for that concession and clarification.
It is clear then, that a fundamental difference between our organizations lies at the heart of this mini-debate.
Whereby a sole unprovoked attack on one of our pilots is considered an attack against every one of us...a similar attack against one of your pilots is met with derision at being 'caught out' as you put it? No?
How inspiring.
The long Winter nights must just fly by.
Edit: Due to communication above, I will leave further notifications to SF leadership
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.19 15:28:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Sooplex Edited by: Sooplex on 19/05/2011 15:24:52
Originally by: Ilfort Oh, I'm not complaining about that. In all honesty I don't really care. I just think it's a silly excuse for a war.
Thankyou for that concession and clarification.
It is clear then, that a fundamental difference between our organizations lies at the heart of this mini-debate.
Whereby a sole unprovoked attack on one of our pilots is considered an attack against every one of us...a similar attack against one of your pilots is met with derision at being 'caught out' as you put it? No?
How inspiring.
The long Winter nights must just fly by.
Edit: Due to communication above, I will leave further notifications to SF leadership
Don't worry Sooplex, by all means continue your discussions. I just wanted to gather a few disparate debate strands together and present the definitive timeline of events.
If our opponents wish to question or debate my extended post we can do that too.
Join the Revolution!
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Ilfort
Gallente Moira.
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Posted - 2011.05.19 15:37:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Sooplex
Whereby a sole unprovoked attack on one of our pilots is considered an attack against every one of us...a similar attack against one of your pilots is met with derision at being 'caught out' as you put it? No?
If by "caught out" you mean a stealth bomber pilot being very unstealthy then yes.
I see nothing wrong with that.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2011.05.19 15:57:00 -
[154]
Ah, if words were bullets...
Pity they aren't.
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Silas Vitalia
Khanid Provincial Vanguard Vanguard Imperium
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Posted - 2011.05.19 16:02:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Ah, if words were bullets...
Pity they aren't.
If they were some of the blowhards here would be conquering entire regions; let us be thankful they are not.
Silas Vitalia CEO Khanid Provincial Vanguard Open for Recruitment!
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.05.19 16:26:00 -
[156]
[21:43:55] Jade Constantine > your wall of text was very boring ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.19 17:00:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Ilfort If Star Fraction is that shaken by the words of a pilot in local then... I don't even know. If you consider the joking and (sorry Soter) fairly non-threatening remarks made in local as irresistible baiting of the worst kind, perhaps you should tighten the leash on your pilots.
Again I think you don't really understand the nature of the Fraction. Free Captains are not "leashed" like nationalist dogs, and the Fraction is not a hierarchist organization of personality cult like Moira, Kapelle, or Veto. Our decisions are made democratically in open council which should make you sit back a little with the irony of an Anarchist organization better embodying that aspect of Gallente idealism rather better than your "loyalist" corporation seems to.
But we do collectively take attempts to close and deny space very seriously, especially when coming from declared -10 hostiles with a past history of attacking when they think they can get away with it.
If you are saying that Soter was simply joking and never meant to deny access to Placid from the Fraction and his every comment in this thread is simply a light-hearted jest with no substance then I think you should encourage him to come here publicly and clarify matters rather than cringing behind the knees of his piratico-sansha-fascist protectors and hiding from the consequences of his actions like a cowardly worm.
Join the Revolution!
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Ilfort
Gallente Moira.
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Posted - 2011.05.19 17:09:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Again I think you don't really understand the nature of the Fraction. Free Captains are not "leashed" like nationalist dogs, and the Fraction is not a hierarchist organization of personality cult like Moira, Kapelle, or Veto. Our decisions are made democratically in open council which should make you sit back a little with the irony of an Anarchist organization better embodying that aspect of Gallente idealism rather better than your "loyalist" corporation seems to.
Okay.
Originally by: Jade Constantine
But we do collectively take attempts to close and deny space very seriously, especially when coming from declared -10 hostiles with a past history of attacking when they think they can get away with it.
There was no "thinking we could get away with it", we just expected you to take it better.
Originally by: Jade Constantine
If you are saying that Soter was simply joking and never meant to deny access to Placid from the Fraction and his every comment in this thread is simply a light-hearted jest with no substance then I think you should encourage him to come here publicly and clarify matters rather than cringing behind the knees of his piratico-sansha-fascist protectors and hiding from the consequences of his actions like a cowardly worm.
I'm saying that perhaps when taunted in local by scary -10 entities perhaps your pilots shouldn't be so easily offended.
I never said comments in this thread were jokes. Things are very serious now.
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Bacchanalian
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.19 17:30:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Jade Constantine the Fraction is not a hierarchist organization of personality cult like Moira, Kapelle, or Veto.
Your attempts to assassinate me failed. While I did nearly drown in my scotch after reading that, I managed to snort most of it back out my nose before choking on it.
I admit, it was a very creative attempt. ____________________ GM Sunshine > oops Neurotica > Hate to see a GM in your gang say 'oops'
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Morwen Lagann
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.19 17:34:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Jade Constantine 7. <snip>
The fact that the Tempest is a battleship aside, about fifteen seconds of intel work would've told you Moira used to be part of Rote Kapelle, at the very least - even if it didn't tell you if standings were still in place. (I can't speak to the status of either Rote Kapelle's or Moira's standings list, but I was under the impression they are/were neutral.)
Originally by: Jade Constantine 9. <snip>
You're going to have to provide a timeframe for this particular incident, as well as some evidence Veto pilots were even involved at this point - particularly in the case of local chatter. We've got fairly tight rules on behavior in local; specifically, stay the hell out of it under the majority of circumstances unless you have FC's permission. I'll touch on the 'hotdrop' part in a bit, but I do recall you were the target of Rooks and Kings at some point as well while you were plinking away at the Moira tower...
Originally by: Jade Constantine 15. <snip>
I was present for this particular incident, and I can quite truthfully state that the loss of Jereth Ravyn's Tengu and his clone were not due to any sort of hotdrop. We were roaming in the area, and after having had a disappointing encounter (or lack thereof, to be precise) with a carrier pilot who'd been doing work for some local agents, we were informed by Rote Kapelle pilots who were in our fleet that they had possible targets for us to get a fight out of. That it was Star Fraction's gaggle of Ravens playing musical cruise missiles with Moira's tower was irrelevant to the majority of Veto pilots in the fleet. We wanted a fight. A Moira pilot tackled the Tengu as it strayed too close to the edge of the tower's shield bubble, and we jumped into Pelille through a stargate - not a cynosural field - and proceeded to tear it apart. We were rather disappointed that your group of battleships decided to leave Jereth and his crew to their fate rather than fighting back - in fact, not only did you have logistics cruisers on the field, we did not, so in some sense you may have actually had the advantage for a while. But instead, your pilots fled the field instead of standing up for themselves.
In addition, having looked through the logs from local for that night, not a single word was uttered by a Veto pilot in Pelille local. It would be appreciated if you would refrain from pinning the "puerile" behavior on those who didn't partake in it.
Originally by: Jade Constantine 16. <snip>
Again, this particular incident was not a hotdrop; no cynos were lit, and travel to the field was made through conventional methods - namely, through a stargate. To boot, none of us had even been aware of any sort of "negotiations" prior to engaging Jereth's Tengu, so whatever conspiracy theories you want to spin about the situation, be my guest, but they'll still all be nothing but a bunch of crap.
Originally by: Jade Constantine 17. <snip>
This incident actually was a hotdrop (third time's the charm, I suppose?), and my first time properly taking part in one rather than being on the receiving end - and in using a Tempest to boot, so managing to be the one to put the final nail in the coffin of Claire's Sleipnir was a nice addition to my day.
And again, on the "vile local smacktalk dribbling"... of all the people yammering on in local, I only witnessed two Veto pilots even making a comment - one was myself, and I managed to stay quite civil despite the strong urge to laugh.
Originally by: Jade Constantine 18. <snip>
The explosion in activity in this thread is at least partly your doing. In addition, you're having trouble keeping your numbers, story and terminology straight. It seems the number of hotdrops increases every time you post something new, so I'm not sure the word 'hotdrop' means what you are using it for.
As a final note, "because it annoys someone" is a perfectly legitimate reason to repair a tower.
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Aislinn Phalanx
Veto.
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Posted - 2011.05.19 17:59:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Morwen Lagann As a final note, "because it annoys someone" is a perfectly legitimate reason to repair a tower.
... or perhaps because that means someone will park another gaggle of targets in front of it and try to take it down again. I'm guessing they won't be as profitable as the Tengu, but any kill can easily lead to a profit.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.19 18:23:00 -
[162]
@ Morwen Lagann
Correction on the Tempest class made, nothing in life has any business being perfect. We were quite aware that Moira was once a member corporation in Rote Kapelle, but we had internal discussions at that point on whether to include Rote Kapelle on the campaign proper. It was still possible that the Tempest we killed at the tower was purely seeking opportunistic advantage.
You are certainly correct that we were also hotdropped by Rooks and Kings but their involvement is simply opportunistic. We all know Rooks and Kings are simply in search of targets without any malign organizational obsessions driving their politics and as such are just an occupational hazard in this area.
On the term ôhot-dropö û I will clarify that I use it in this context to mean ôany sudden gank response with overwhelming force designed around a single kill with no likely chance of a sustained engagementö. I use the term in a broader sense than I imagine you do for simplicity and economy on the word count -> "surprise overwhelming gank" being a bit of a mouthful.
On the routine Veto/Kapelle smack talk on the Tengu engagement û you had more curses than we had logistics ships and over twice our numbers. Only an idiot would fight that engagement and I know quite well that your CEO would jump headfirst onto a bed of nails rather than risk anything like that level of disproportionate engagement against us holding the advantage. In fact VETO vessels are well known to dock up from single opponents rather than risk any form of risky engagement.
I categorize Veto/Kapelle as the same organization when I speak of local behaviour because your CEO and the Rote CEO has made it clear you are effectively the same organization and your pilots are willingly placing themselves subordinate to Rote FCÆs and standing accepting of such local behaviour. You are coloured by the company you keep. We are aware that Veto are operating out of the Rote home system currently because your own activity crisis and lack of talented FC's has forced this onto your leadership. As such we consider you effectively "Rote" at this time.
On VeroneÆs ônegotiationsö - he did inform me that you were operating entirely as subordinate to Rote Kapelle command and control at the time and doubtless in the nature of a hierarchical outfit like Veto it was simply determined you didnÆt need to know *shrug* changes nothing.
On your somewhat laughable accusation of inaccuracies of our account I suspect such things vanish to irrelevance against the statements we were offered initially of Veto having no stake in keeping Moira Corporation safe in Placid. But you are using the routine ôthrow some mud and hope it sticksö with absolutely no proof or merit to your vapid accusations.
On your involvement with the Moira HQ tower. Nobody has asked you for your justifications. And I think we care little for your reasons. All that matters is you have taken the field in defence of Moira and that will henceforth be factored into the conflict and eventual victory boons / lamentations of defeat.
Join the Revolution!
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.19 18:39:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Ah, if words were bullets...
Pity they aren't.
If words were bullets, Constantine would be Commander In Chief Of The Entire Universe.
Thankfully they're not and Constantine continues to prove just how full of **** and detached from reality it's possible for a single person to be.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Ilik Tanikalot
Moira.
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Posted - 2011.05.19 18:43:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Ah, if words were bullets...
Pity they aren't.
If words were bullets, Constantine would be Commander In Chief Of The Entire Universe.
Thankfully they're not and Constantine continues to prove just how full of **** and detached from reality it's possible for a single person to be.
This.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.19 18:47:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Verone Thankfully they're not and Constantine continues to prove just how full of **** and detached from reality it's possible for a single person to be.
I have the feeling a nerve has been hit. Emergency gas-venting from a washed up pirate detected.
Join the Revolution!
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.19 18:57:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Verone Thankfully they're not and Constantine continues to prove just how full of **** and detached from reality it's possible for a single person to be.
I have the feeling a nerve has been hit. Emergency gas-venting from a washed up pirate detected.
You couldn't strike a nerve if you tried with all your might sweetheart. Your aim is just as **** as your perception of reality.
Originally by: Jade Constantine On VeroneÆs ônegotiationsö - he did inform me that you were operating entirely as subordinate to Rote Kapelle command and control at the time and doubtless in the nature of a hierarchical outfit like Veto it was simply determined you didnÆt need to know *shrug* changes nothing.
Actually to correct myself (and you as usual) it came to light after speaking with you that the gang was in fact headed by a Veto Corp FC and word was passed of of SF's engagement on the tower to Rote Leadership, which then immediately filtered to the mixed gang. Our FC made the call from there.
I didn't bother to inform you at the time, given the fact I'm not particularly bothered about your opinion.
As for your other allegations of "lack of FCs" and "pilot activity crisis", as usual you're full of ****.
You'd have seen how inactive we are if you'd witnessed the 40 strong Logistics fleet, plus support that moved us into TXW in early May.
Again, baseless accusations. Again, rumour mill. Again, no real substance to anything you're posting other than a wall of bull**** to try and bolster your own invalid and incorrect arguments based on personal assumptions and hearsay.
With regards to my pilots smack talking, our standard practice is to ignore local communications completely.
This is written into the corp policy, although in some instances members do idly chat. We have a strong doctrine against smack talk and badmouthing in local.
I'm aware that Rote don't share that sentiment, and frankly I'm not bothered, it's their leadership's call. I don't write their ROE, and they don't write ours. They just happen to be mutually compatible in most instances.
Given the fact that my personal inbox has filled practically to bursting point with your mindless drivel over the last few days, I'd appreciate it if you'd have one of your diplomatic contacts provide any evidence of wrongdoing, such as a chatlog of the offending pilot, and I'll deal with it through proper channels.
Don't bother mailing me yourself, as I stated privately I have no will to read the torrent of baseless trash you're continuing to spew.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
GoGo Yubari
Veto.
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Posted - 2011.05.19 19:05:00 -
[167]
Veto Kapelle has a nice ring to it, though. Not really a scathing insult that. There should totally be t-shirts. It would have "I fought a Tengu and all I got was this Veto Kapelle t-shirt" in an in-your-face font.
Maybe a movie deal too.
Love by nature. Live by luck. Kill by profession. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.19 19:15:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Verone You couldn't strike a nerve if you tried with all your might sweetheart.
Originally by: Verone Actually to correct myself (and you as usual) it came to light after speaking with you that the gang was in fact headed by a Veto Corp FC and word was passed of of SF's engagement on the tower to Rote Leadership, which then immediately filtered to the mixed gang. Our FC made the call from there.
I didn't bother to inform you at the time, given the fact I'm not particularly bothered about your opinion.
As for your other allegations of "lack of FCs" and "pilot activity crisis", as usual you're full of ****.
You'd have seen how inactive we are if you'd witnessed the 40 strong Logistics fleet, plus support that moved us into TXW in early May.
Again, baseless accusations. Again, rumour mill. Again, no real substance to anything you're posting other than a wall of bull**** to try and bolster your own invalid and incorrect arguments based on personal assumptions and hearsay.
With regards to my pilots smack talking, our standard practice is to ignore local communications completely.
This is written into the corp policy, although in some instances members do idly chat. We have a strong doctrine against smack talk and badmouthing in local.
I'm aware that Rote don't share that sentiment, and frankly I'm not bothered, it's their leadership's call. I don't write their ROE, and they don't write ours. They just happen to be mutually compatible in most instances.
Given the fact that my personal inbox has filled practically to bursting point with your mindless drivel over the last few days, I'd appreciate it if you'd have one of your diplomatic contacts provide any evidence of wrongdoing, such as a chatlog of the offending pilot, and I'll deal with it through proper channels.
Don't bother mailing me yourself, as I stated privately I have no will to read the torrent of baseless trash you're continuing to spew.
Methinks the pirate doth protest too much
For the record Verone the last communication you sent me was 666 words long (ironically) and rambled on for quite some time.
The last communication I sent you considered of 31 words the last two of which were ...
BURN DOG.
Join the Revolution!
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.19 19:23:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Jade Constantine BURN DOG.
Still waiting for you to start the fire, darling.
I'm not one to go chasing and you've been too spineless to light the fuse for the past five and a half years.
Still, this to-and-fro of words is getting us nowhere.
I'll see you on the field sweetheart, where you'll most likely be vacuum frozen or running away spouting an overly wordy monologue of dribble across local comms.
Ciao, sweetie.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.19 19:25:00 -
[170]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 19/05/2011 19:25:40
Originally by: Verone I'm not one to go chasing ...
I imagine thats why your active pilots prefer to fly under Rote Kapelle leadership these days.
Join the Revolution!
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Julianus Soter
Gallente Moira.
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Posted - 2011.05.19 19:32:00 -
[171]
Edited by: Julianus Soter on 19/05/2011 19:36:36 Well, well. I go away for twelve hours and Jade continues to hog valuable FTL bandwidth with impotent-yet-vociferous commentary about a state of affairs which she no longer controls.
It seems to me you, Jade, were more than willing to take credit for deploying five-to-one odds combat forces against our pilots and celebrating victories, and yet don't take it very well when such roles are reversed, even for a single engagement.
I'm sure poor Jeryth felt very appreciated while your fleet warped away and his ship and pod was left to be incinerated. And honestly, your Ravens were largely inconsequential in value to his ship, what did you have to lose?
It reminds me of those various engagements in Ostingele when we were fighting your pilots early in the war, and when your reinforcements arrived, they promptly docked and warped away, leaving the subject of their 'assistance' to burn and die to our guns.
Regardless, the true irony of the situation was your commentary in local chat, Jade Constantine, following your defeat at our control tower.
As I recall for that day's events, were discussing a ceasefire. Your organization then escalated their assault against Moira military assets. Moira pilots then took necessary measures to defend those assets while they were under attack, and then, according to your own words, Jade Constantine, you spurned the possibility of any further ceasefire negotiations.
So, because we defended ourselves from an attack, we're somehow not abiding by the rules of war? What rules are these? The ones that only lead to Star Fraction winning a given conflict?
But then again, these are rhetorical questions, in the end.
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Aesis Tori
Gallente Moira.
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Posted - 2011.05.19 19:35:00 -
[172]
I really struggle keeping up with all the big fancy words these CEO types use...
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Silas Vitalia
Khanid Provincial Vanguard Vanguard Imperium
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Posted - 2011.05.19 19:37:00 -
[173]
Soter, I'm going to enjoy eventually hearing about your tower burning... you little, little man.
Silas Vitalia CEO Khanid Provincial Vanguard Open for Recruitment!
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Aesis Tori
Gallente Moira.
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Posted - 2011.05.19 19:41:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Silas Vitalia Soter, I'm going to enjoy eventually hearing about your tower burning... you little, little man.
Ohnoes, not the tower!
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.05.19 19:42:00 -
[175]
So the only measure by which the Fraction are winning is wordcount?
Sounds like business as usual. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Usagi Tsukino
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.19 19:42:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Morwen Lagann And again, on the "vile local smacktalk dribbling"... of all the people yammering on in local, I only witnessed two Veto pilots even making a comment - one was myself, and I managed to stay quite civil despite the strong urge to laugh.
I think this was my fault as I was saying hello and commenting on the fact that I didn't notice you were in fleet, but I forgot to use fleet comms.
I was not really on my game that day. ___
Chaotic Dreams |
Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.05.19 19:44:00 -
[177]
Oh, Usagi, you've really done it now! How dare you politely greet someone?! ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.19 20:01:00 -
[178]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 19/05/2011 20:04:32
Originally by: Julianus Soter It seems to me you, Jade, were more than willing to take credit for deploying five-to-one odds combat forces against our pilots and celebrating victories, and yet don't take it very well when such roles are reversed, even for a single engagement.
We have done no such thing Soter. Indeed it was made clear we had not reached any form of victory to claim or suggest such in our campaign reports. We made no triumphant cheers when we were kicking you around placid, we make no complaints when you are supported by five times our number in support your Nationalist agenda. "The more the merrier" was my response.
On your commentary regarding our pilots and engagements I believe it to be below notice really. Your own fleet command has been lackluster at best and typically your pilots die alone and unlamented while the rest lurk in stations.
Originally by: Julianus Soter As I recall for that day's events, were discussing a ceasefire. Your organization then escalated their assault against Moira military assets. Moira pilots then took necessary measures to defend those assets while they were under attack, and then, according to your own words, Jade Constantine, you spurned the possibility of any further ceasefire negotiations.
To correct your words we "continued" rather than "escalated" our assault on your HQ tower. And I told you plainly that your request for an immediate ceasefire would not be granted. Nobody has complained about you asking for help to defend your tower and progress your war-aims Soter.
And the Free Captains of the Star Fraction refused your ceasefire negotiations and suggested terms for surrender through collective vote rather than the decision of any one pilot.
Join the Revolution!
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Gorion Wassenar
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.19 20:02:00 -
[179]
Edited by: Gorion Wassenar on 19/05/2011 20:02:32 I even posted them a helpful flowchart. ----- *results may vary*
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Jereth Ravyn
Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.19 20:04:00 -
[180]
Normally I'm more than happy to leave the thankless task of communicating through these channels to my fellow Free Captains, but on this occasion I just wanted to say I'm honored. While I am slightly embarrassed to be the first Fraction capsule lost in this conflict, I am amused that I would have the honor of "fighting" you all 20 to 1, good odds for any Free Captain. Please be sure to contact me if any of those T-Shirts get made, I totally want one.
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