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PVP Is Dying

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Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2011.05.05 12:47:00 - [91] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian You are also trying to hard Misanth. Got anything better to say? Sure. You got anything but stupid trolling to post? I'd love to discuss 2005-PvP with you, but no real point talking with someone who's just in to argue, compares apples with pears, and is not even trying to cover it like any semi-decent troll would. Oh ****, I guess I just fell for it. Either that or I'm just bored.. -
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.05 12:50:00 - [92] Originally by: Misanth Originally by: Eternum Praetorian You are also trying to hard Misanth. Got anything better to say? Sure. You got anything but stupid trolling to post? I'd love to discuss 2005-PvP with you, but no real point talking with someone who's just in to argue, compares apples with pears, and is not even trying to cover it like any semi-decent troll would. Oh ****, I guess I just fell for it. Either that or I'm just bored.. Just your simple Simon opinion, as you clearly are not addressing anything that i have expressed. Go back and read it again.
BrundleMeth Caldari Temporal Mechanics	Posted - 2011.05.05 14:11:00 - [93] This may sound stupid to some but something I would like to see as a reward for getting a kill in PVP is a boost to your training speed for a time for each kill you get. Say 1% per kill for 3 days or so. And no loss of training time if you die because you are more likely to die than kill and no one would PVP at all if they knew getting killed meant slower training time... Sound reasonable or stupid?
NeoShocker Caldari Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2011.05.05 14:31:00 - [94] Edited by: NeoShocker on 05/05/2011 14:35:20 Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 05/05/2011 12:00:29 Originally by: NeoShocker Pvp dying? I don't think so. That looks a like a gate camp where you engage one small gang (who had no logistical support, where as you most defiantly had at least one Scimitar) and then shortly there after (or before) multiple, stupid, completely unrelated targets crossed the HED gate one at a time. It only looks like one killmail because of the way that aggression mechanics generate killmails, and yes it is a nice haul for the night. However, we will also not see any "fraps" of this epic l33t sauce PVP battle because it is not any different then the Privateers camping jita 4-4. It is nice when lone targets cross into a bubble for you so your 6,000 KM/sec instalockers can tag them one by one yea? That's right. I said it. That might as well be a Privateer killmail at a market hub undock, so meh... It may impress noobs like Lea Sahara with a shadow for a picture but you can't pass off crap like that to the rest of us who have been around the block a few times. Lol, well, sadly, no, no fraps, I'll have to ask Packe or Tyrrant (tho it is very unlikely) because it was really only just us three, no logistics. But we did get a drake help toward the near end before logging off for the night. I just had a good night. After going out for some nom nom and watching sports like SF Giants winning the game, then Sharks win the playoff match in NHL, one more game to advance. Got back home and said "sup" in mumble and them two needed some help (they were actually doing fine too, one more dramiel won't hurt). So I log in and went straight to HED-GP while Tyrrant being a noob and dying while enroute. I arrived, multiple of targets on gate, several outside gate range, Hurricane off the distance. There were even combat situation that 2 hurricanes off gate and we tackled them, plus the drake, and we got them. Then cynabal warps in to help after posting in local "Help, drake tackled, warp to keberz gate" (no lie, I was surprised) and two more ships to help off the gate distance. Really, there were like 7+ more guys on the gate, watching their friends and allies dying to us. No lie, trolling. We even engaged on the gate to "encourage" them to fire on us. Then Tyrrant, being like a noob he was, he stopped moving after killing said cynaball (I think, can't remember) and got INSTAPOPPED by sniping maelstrom (yes, on the gate the whole time I believe) and came back with another dramiel (and a friendly drake reinforcement). Really, just play and fly smart. Sure, I did simple orbit click, but did quite a bit of manual controlling to stay away from the gate while tackling something. ----------------------------------- Peace through power!
Tarasina	Posted - 2011.05.05 14:54:00 - [95] Originally by: Misanth You're also trying too hard. His alt? Not his alt, just my opinion. You can turn a blind eye to the issue but it wont go away. Think about it. How interesting would the Alliance Tournament be with supercaps on the field?
Renarla	Posted - 2011.05.05 15:00:00 - [96] Originally by: BrundleMeth This may sound stupid to some but something I would like to see as a reward for getting a kill in PVP is a boost to your training speed for a time for each kill you get. Say 1% per kill for 3 days or so. And no loss of training time if you die because you are more likely to die than kill and no one would PVP at all if they knew getting killed meant slower training time... Sound reasonable or stupid? Create alt farm alt ??? profit
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2011.05.05 15:32:00 - [97] Originally by: Tarasina Originally by: Misanth You're also trying too hard. His alt? Not his alt, just my opinion. You can turn a blind eye to the issue but it wont go away. Think about it. How interesting would the Alliance Tournament be with supercaps on the field? Think about it. How would the Alliance Tournament be without borders, with no rules on what modules you can fit, no gang size limits, and we could discuss the viability of the fittings used there as well since it almost always lacks proper tackle. ..I thought my pear > apple would be obvious enough, but I guess it might help to spell it out. Comparing apples and oranges FTL. -
Ioci Gallente Morrigna Order	Posted - 2011.05.05 16:11:00 - [98] The problem is the forums. They are only good for talking about what doesn't work. If you come here and talk about what does work, it won't the next time you log in.
Mooney92 Minmatar Satanic Soldiers Adeptus Arbites	Posted - 2011.05.05 16:13:00 - [99] I used to pvp before it went mainstream. Hipsters gonna hip. Herp derp. Go to ---> http://www.hellokittyonline.com/ "Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner. Liberty is 1 well armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin, 1759
Usagi Tsukino Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2011.05.05 17:00:00 - [100] It's been a long time since 2005, but after taking my Alzheimer's medication I seem to remember gate camps existed back then. So I don't actually understand how you can claim, Eternum, that gate camping doesn't count as PvP when shooting down examples of PvP still being alive and well in EVE. Fully non-troll here, what do you think the answer is? The problem is not entirely the mechanics of the game. Jump bridges hurt because they allow fleets/targets to flee easily (though I am assuming you don't count the latter as PvP as I am almost thinking you only consider consensual meet-me-at-high-noon shootouts PvP). If anything harms PvP its player/corp/alliance attitudes. Blueing up everything within six regions; titan bridging 30 ships on top of a single battle cruiser will certainly cause a small gang to refuse to engage your gang; risk aversion - by which I mean bringing a logi and a Falcon for every DPS ship. What idiot gang is going to bother playing with that unless they can out blob? All that said, there is plenty of PvP (though maybe not always YOUR definition of PvP) in the game. I've gotten more PvP kills in the last two years than I have since I started in March of 2004. You can't just sit and spin in your station though waiting for someone to come into local and slap you with a glove demanding fisticuffs though. ___ *Chaotic Dreams*
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.05.05 17:16:00 - [101] Eternum Praetorian makes a whine thread. The Tiny Island of People Who Care was unfortunately unavailable for comment. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
TravisWB	Posted - 2011.05.05 18:20:00 - [102] mmmm, bitter vet tears.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2011.05.05 18:25:00 - [103] Originally by: Usagi Tsukino It's been a long time since 2005, but after taking my Alzheimer's medication I seem to remember gate camps existed back then. So I don't actually understand how you can claim, Eternum, that gate camping doesn't count as PvP when shooting down examples of PvP still being alive and well in EVE. Fully non-troll here, what do you think the answer is? The problem is not entirely the mechanics of the game. Jump bridges hurt because they allow fleets/targets to flee easily (though I am assuming you don't count the latter as PvP as I am almost thinking you only consider consensual meet-me-at-high-noon shootouts PvP). If anything harms PvP its player/corp/alliance attitudes. Blueing up everything within six regions; titan bridging 30 ships on top of a single battle cruiser will certainly cause a small gang to refuse to engage your gang; risk aversion - by which I mean bringing a logi and a Falcon for every DPS ship. What idiot gang is going to bother playing with that unless they can out blob? All that said, there is plenty of PvP (though maybe not always YOUR definition of PvP) in the game. I've gotten more PvP kills in the last two years than I have since I started in March of 2004. You can't just sit and spin in your station though waiting for someone to come into local and slap you with a glove demanding fisticuffs though. Not to mention that in 2005 we had the totally broken nos mechanics, dampeners making all other e-war obsolete, warpcore stabs had not been nerfed so was commonly fitted, t2 modules were insanely expensive (if you could even get hold of them) etc.. But apart from that I agree with you that players mentality today has shifted, alot. Back then industrial corps would fight back if aggressed. Today they blob and/or run and/or hide in alliances/highsec/whatever. NC and other entities have the whole mentality of "holding space is more important than fighting, so we'll blob to ****, break server and never really fight because then we can keep whoring isk like there's no tomorrow". Plus what you said about jumpbridges. But, since OP is just stating "2005 PvP owned" (very grave generalisation) and stating that everyone that disagress is a noob, he's either a troll, or pretty damn dumb and/or ignorant. So words like these are pretty much wasted on him. -
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor	Posted - 2011.05.05 21:59:00 - [104] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 05/05/2011 21:59:18 Originally by: Misanth Originally by: Tarasina Originally by: Misanth You're also trying too hard. His alt? Not his alt, just my opinion. You can turn a blind eye to the issue but it wont go away. Think about it. How interesting would the Alliance Tournament be with supercaps on the field? Think about it. How would the Alliance Tournament be without borders, with no rules on what modules you can fit, no gang size limits, and we could discuss the viability of the fittings used there as well since it almost always lacks proper tackle. ..I thought my pear > apple would be obvious enough, but I guess it might help to spell it out. Comparing apples and oranges FTL. People like you really need to be fed in a highchair with a very tiny spoon don't they?
Drunx Gallente	Posted - 2011.05.06 23:18:00 - [105] BTW:) I bet 90% of the people here in this thread do not really read the thread but just burst out some emos related to the topic:) So it's hardly a discussion any more:) So basically - save yourself some time. Here is the TL;DR of this entire thread and of other posts to come: *("Let me tell you how it is...") [number of eve subscribers]**
Aaron Eternal Frontier	Posted - 2011.05.07 00:04:00 - [106] Edited by: Aaron on 07/05/2011 00:07:12 Hey Eternum, longtime. Nice thread. PVP is a battle of the minds, whos mind is sharpest? who has prepared the most logical fleet? who can counter the most logical fleet? I honestly can't say pvp is dead (small gang pvp 25 vs 25 and lower) if you can enter into these kinds of fights then you will have epic fun. Real PvP has become rare and I will embrace it when it happens, regardless of the outcome i will say gf to my opponents. I took part in a battle where the opponents had 12 slepnirs and 3 schimitars, we got owned properly that day, all the sleipnirs even had a large shield transporter in their utility slot just incase their schimitars failed. This is the kind of fleet I would like to fight against because it would be a challenge to find the flaws in their fleet and beat them. So you see PvP is still alive, I guess it just depends on how you play the game and what kind of pvp situations you want to get involved with. I mean come on its easy saying PvP is dead when you're permenently in hi-sec. edit: my poor spelling.
Aaron Eternal Frontier	Posted - 2011.05.07 00:21:00 - [107] A fleet commander, a real fleet commander that is...knows that fleet command isnt just about calling primaries and secondaries. Its about working with your team, advising on skills training, shipfits.. A real fleet commander will know precisley what the enemies tactics will be just by seeing their fleet composition. I can tell you this; one day im gonna start a pvp fight club and were gonna execute it like gentlemen and follow a code of conduct. You think you got the best fleet?? come and prove it!! there will be gambling, drugs, and alcohol involved. PvP is far from dead, I'm with the other dude who said it's just getting started.
Lost Greybeard	Posted - 2011.05.07 00:33:00 - [108] There's nothing wrong with the cheetah-vs-gazelle game that is solo/tiny fleet pvp, either. The gazelle hangs out doing pve in a pvp fit until someone jumps her, then battle is engaged. There's not a lot of e-honor noobery with people charging headlong at each other, but that's less pvp dying and more the player base removing the pants from their head and backing off the ******edness a bit. --- If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous
ATARI BABY Ministry of War	Posted - 2011.05.07 19:59:00 - [109] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian WTB PVP in 2005 If you don't know what I am talking about then you have not been there... and you fail proby nooblet. The bigger the ship the stupider the pilot. Oh, and closed for lack of content. i pointed same thing here but its locked.
Jenny Cameron Caldari Isha's Tears	Posted - 2011.05.07 20:07:00 - [110] Edited by: Jenny Cameron on 07/05/2011 20:09:51 There's PvP in MY EVE?? Originally by: Herrring Originally by: Falgoria pvp? Player versus POS Ah ........ right!!! ________________* - If you're in favour of a bloodline change please vote in the Assembly Hall in this thread -
Lord EmBra Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2011.05.07 20:27:00 - [111] Originally by: Drunx A bit of a mess in this topic... BUT there is some true thought which exists in this direction. TL;DR - Rich guys own bums! <--- very shortened! better read it all. PVP Changed a lot. But it changed to the way CCP wants it to be changed. With all the speed nerfing and further balancing, CCP pushed through the concept of cooperation more then ever before. Basically this means that SOLO is not appreciated anymore and deems away day by day. Today, PVP is all about your fleet. How many? Which ships? Which tactics? and so on. Previously PVP was more... spontaneous so to say. Today it is a rare case scenario that upon engaging into a fight, you will get adequate resistance from your enemy. In 90% of the cases it is all about blobing or "wallet challenging". And wallet challenging is the 2-nd factor which CHANGES PVP a lot. Look at the average wealth of today's players. It is waaayyy higher then in 2005. Look at the prices of the ships? They are more or less the same - meaning they didn't change as much as someones wealth changed. This brings us to the fact that today, more players can afford bigger ships, better modules and so on. In 2005, having a slave set, even low-grade, was something "WOW! WTF! OMG!" today - it's much more affordable. There are more and more faction ships used in PVP, which would be also very notable event in 2005. The average "PVP level" - if measured in ship value, modules - whatever - is much higher now. The amount of new players - is not so big to fill in the gap between those in the top and in the bottom. Look at this: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=9504741 If you now go back in time and show it to yourself in 2005 (if you were playing even at those times)) - you would be blinded.... So this is the good illustration of that the pvp level has advanced a lot because of the fact that the wealth raised too, though the market didn't fully followed that trend. Which made PVP extremely cheap for one group and still tough for the other group. And basically, it is all linked to the time=isks factor. CCP made more possibilities for earning iskies, but they are all still quite much dependent on time you are ready to spend in the game. Sooo....:)) It is not dying, but it is trasforming. Not for good and not for bad, but to some different concept then it was in 2005. Though the fact that there is something wrong with the economy in eve - is true. If it all goes this way - the value of pvp, value of experience and tactics and preparation for the fights and so on, will sank in the factor of wealthiness. And Tranquility will become Singularity. So true, this game need more ISK sinks.
Psycarne Minmatar Guerrilla Tactics	Posted - 2011.05.07 21:34:00 - [112] Originally by: Eternum Praetorian WTB PVP in 2005 If you don't know what I am talking about then you have not been there... and you fail proby nooblet. The bigger the ship the stupider the pilot. Oh, and closed for lack of content. It was bloody ace. ------------- Ar? Limp?
Officer Icecream Truck	Posted - 2011.05.07 22:07:00 - [113] Had a hankering for ~elitepvp~ tears and this thread delivered once again.
Mighty Dread Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.07 22:35:00 - [114] I think the whole concept of Concord needs to be overhauled and updated. Sure Concord has worked to keep the game from descending into chaos while the Devs work out the various gameplay dynamics of EVE, but I think now's the time for the game to evolve and stop using dynamite as a can opener. Just as pirates/gankers expect to be spanked by Concord to various degrees for their outlaw behavior players need to feel like they can proactively protect themselves and sections of empire space against said pirates/gankers without being slapped by Concord themselves. I don't know exactly how CCP is going to implement the whole drug smuggling thing that was mentioned earlier this year, hopefully though it means a fix to other similar areas of the game like how Concord treats low sec and Bounty Hunting. Too as I said before CCP needs to start giving meaning to PVP, give people a reason to sacrifice their ships, for a greater cause or whatever. More storyline, a more dynamic EVE universe and something constructive to build and protect aside from military installations.
Aaron Eternal Frontier	Posted - 2011.05.09 17:59:00 - [115] Edited by: Aaron on 09/05/2011 18:01:22 I've had a few more thoughts since my last post..Have a look at this scenario. Lets say you take your corp to sov 0.0 and build POS's defences etc, a few weeks later you are attacked by a 20 strong carrier fleet and all your installations are destroyed and you lose sov. Now the lessons you must learn from this are that you wernt organised or powerful enough to defend your space. It's silly of you to say something like "Its not fair, 20 carriers jumped our 1 carrier" You have the option of recruiting lots of people then gaining the finance or resources to buy 20 carriers and engage the large force that attacked you. I feel us players need to just man up and accept CCP have designed the game how they want it. It is your job to find ways of getting ahead and being able to have good pvp. CCP has changed the game in a way which forces people to work as a team to accomplish goals, some people are very good at teamwork and understand fully what being a soldier or commander is about. The real problem here is that lots of us completly fail at teamwork,the way CCP has designed the game is not the problem. edit: gramatical
Jason Triumph	Posted - 2011.05.09 20:10:00 - [116] CCP forced the game to be to small. Jump Bridges are the main culprit without them the amount of space an alliance could hold would be significantly reduced and that would hopefully spur more people to venture out to low/null with less chance of being a part of blob warfare.

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