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Kamikaze jihawt
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Posted - 2011.05.09 10:40:00 -
[1]
Currently on SiSi the loyalt point modifier skills have been given the axe. So skills like military connections will no longer be there when you log in for the next patch that goes live. Now I have run some missions, and comparing to what I and others have earned lp wise for a missions it seems to be a bit less than what is currently live on tranq. First off I want to call upon CCP to explain what exactly they are doing as far as loyalty points go, because so far this is looking like it is a loyalty point nerf. Keep in mind this doesn't just affect all lvl 4 high sec mission carebears. This affects all lvls of missions, in all securities of space. If this is indeed another nerf to missions I vote NO! Pending any word from ccp I propose not to lose these lp modifier skills.
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Samillian
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Posted - 2011.05.09 11:05:00 -
[2]
I have no problem with the possible removal of loyalty point modifier skills as long as we get the SP's back like we did with learning skills. It has always seemed more than a little odd to me that any additions to LP earned come from a group of skills rather than from the level of your standing with the faction or corp you are running missions for.
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Sarina Rhoda
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Posted - 2011.05.09 11:50:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Samillian I have no problem with the possible removal of loyalty point modifier skills as long as we get the SP's back like we did with learning skills. It has always seemed more than a little odd to me that any additions to LP earned come from a group of skills rather than from the level of your standing with the faction or corp you are running missions for.
iirc your loyalty point reward does go up as your standings with the agent go up.
Hmmm i have to say I am pro nerfing missions. Brings more balance to the null sec/high sec risk/reward. Personally I would have preferred to see them do it through dropping mission rewards and bounties though as by dropping lp payouts your dropping the isk sink a little.
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Samillian
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Posted - 2011.05.09 12:43:00 -
[4]
Sarina, your right. It's been so long since I've done a mission I forgot that.
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King Rothgar
Path of the Fallen
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Posted - 2011.05.09 13:34:00 -
[5]
It's potentially a catastrophic nerf to lvl5's. I'm updating sisi right now to take a look but if we are really talking about a 33% reduction in LP pay for lvl5's, then high sec lvl4's might actually pay more per mission and per hour. The reason is lvl5's frequently pay less actual isk than lvl4's but they pay far more in LP. With such a drastic reduction in LP, it looks pretty dodgy to me. But as said, I still need to look for myself. Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Kamikaze jihawt
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Posted - 2011.05.09 13:52:00 -
[6]
Originally by: King Rothgar It's potentially a catastrophic nerf to lvl5's. I'm updating sisi right now to take a look but if we are really talking about a 33% reduction in LP pay for lvl5's, then high sec lvl4's might actually pay more per mission and per hour. The reason is lvl5's frequently pay less actual isk than lvl4's but they pay far more in LP. With such a drastic reduction in LP, it looks pretty dodgy to me. But as said, I still need to look for myself.
This is precisely the problem tbh, although it does effect all missions. Lvl 5 missions will be hit the hardest. For example tranquility live "Wrath of Angels" mission pays 80k lp per mission. On SiSi the payout is 65k lp per mission with the new changes. That is just an insane drop in lp payment, and huge mega nerf for lvl 5 missions.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.09 14:19:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 09/05/2011 14:20:00 It would also be a nerf to low sec lvl 4 missions.
Edit: But I am sure CCPs causality models predict something else
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Dharh
Gallente Ace Adventure Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.09 14:20:00 -
[8]
This may be a precursor to the removal of Agent Quality as well. This coupled with That leading to a little less LP seems A.O.K. with me.
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Kamikaze jihawt
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Posted - 2011.05.09 14:40:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Dharh This may be a precursor to the removal of Agent Quality as well. This coupled with That leading to a little less LP seems A.O.K. with me.
A "little" less Lp seems A.O.K how? How is 30-40% less lp considered a little? Also are you freaking high? No wait you must be a proud owner of rat bots, or mining bots so this will only increase your rmt business sales. Better yet this will increase ccp's plex sales. Now I know why this is being done.......
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King Rothgar
Path of the Fallen
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Posted - 2011.05.09 15:50:00 -
[10]
I finally finished updating sisi, results are as follows:
10.0 personal standing for the lvl5 republic fleet agent in auga (0.4 sec), rogue spy (1 of 3): 73k LP on TQ, 60k LP on sisi. 10.0 personal standing for the lvl5 imperial navy agent in sahtogas (0.3 sec), rogue spy (1 of 3): 78k LP on TQ, 65k LP on sisi.
I rejected multiple missions to see if standings had any impact on payout, my test showed no such thing. It is possible that standings may only be counted up to a certain point however. And since lvl5's require 8.6 standing on TQ (7.0 on sisi) to accept, you can't drop it too much. Both results show a 17-18% LP payout reduction. Not nearly as serious as the 33% reduction predicted from the loss of the 50% bonus from skills but it's still pretty heavy handed. I find this particularly true since I don't know of anyone who thinks lvl5's should be nerfed.
I did not check lvl4's and tbh I haven't run one of those in years. Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
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Black Dranzer
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.09 16:32:00 -
[11]
Meh. Missions could use a nerf.
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Cavern Johnson
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Posted - 2011.05.09 16:40:00 -
[12]
They're making agent quality dynamic rather than static.
This means less-heavily used agents = better LP.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.09 17:56:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Cavern Johnson They're making agent quality dynamic rather than static.
This means less-heavily used agents = better LP.
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Dynamic Agent Quality is not something BFF will be taking on any time soon either,, so I'm guessing this just sprang up from a misunderstanding at a round table (or maybe over a beer or three with a dev somewhere).
Enough said.
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.05.09 18:54:00 -
[14]
Edited by: X Gallentius on 09/05/2011 18:56:28 Will agent quality be removed, or does it stay the same as it is now?
Answer
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.05.09 19:02:00 -
[15]
I, for one, support this new change.
-1 to the proposal. This rocks. ^^
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King Rothgar
Path of the Fallen
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Posted - 2011.05.09 19:03:00 -
[16]
It appears to be removed on sisi as does the effective quality description. That said security status still clearly impacts the agent's actual payouts. Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Mars Theran
Caldari EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 02:19:00 -
[17]
Makes me less likely to mission run in the future. I just bought and trained them all to level 4 about a month ago, to give some purpose to mission running.
just another nerf.
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Mars Theran
Caldari EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 02:57:00 -
[18]
Having fully read the thread, it seems missions may improve despite the loss of the skills and LP bonuses, yet I will reserve judgement untill I see it in effect.
So long as we get the SP back, I don't really mind as I'll just drop it somewhere else. Long run, makes everything equal, and less skill training, or skill cross-training required for all. That's a plus.
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Sarina Rhoda
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Posted - 2011.05.10 07:39:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Sarina Rhoda on 10/05/2011 07:45:02 Edited by: Sarina Rhoda on 10/05/2011 07:42:56 TBH i don't understand how this change would actually lower mission runners income. Surly a drop in lp per mission by 33% would just lead to an increase of lp value by 50% as there is 33% less lp to go around :P Alas though your mission running income is still the same.........
The only real affect i can see coming from this is an increase in price on lp faction gear ...... oooo market speculation buy now while its cheap !!!!
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King Rothgar
Path of the Fallen
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Posted - 2011.05.10 12:43:00 -
[20]
Edited by: King Rothgar on 10/05/2011 12:46:06 You are correct that it will increase LP value (theoretically) but there are a few scaling problems. First of all, lvl4's will not have any noticable change in payout, lvl5's will however. The reason is because lvl4's pay almost exclusively in isk with a tiny amount of LP given out, lvl5's are the opposite. It would be like a 18% bounty/loot/reward nerf for all the lvl4 runners while leaving LP alone.
Edit: forgot to mention, it also removes 4 items from the LP store. Yes, those military connection skillbooks and such come from the LP stores. So even with the reduced LP, it may not actually increase LP value. Implants come primarily from lvl4 story lines and with those skillbooks soon to be gone, that leaves us with spec books, ammo and maybe 1-2 worthwhile modules for each faction. Ships are produced mostly from FW LP as they get a huge discount and thus can undercut everyone else without flinching. I know from personal experience, I was FW for 1.5 years . Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 14:12:00 -
[21]
Just a quick note to the mathematically challenged:
If LP numbers per mission are nerfed, the average value of LP will rise. Depending on the elasticity of demand, this counter effect will wholly or partially mitigate the income reduction.
Eg: CCP change agent quality and social skills, resulting in an overall 17% reduction in LP. Consequently, the effective value of those LP rise by (for example) 11%. The reduction in the MR's LP income will actually be 1-(0.83*1.11)= 7.787%, not 17%
Obviousl those are made up example numbers, but I suspect that they wouldn't be all that far out. I am sceptical that a 7-8% reduction in the LP component of the mission runners rewards would be enough to completely obviate lo-sec/0.0 mission running, given the very high rewards currently obtainable. It's certainly a much lesser nerf than the one recently endured by anomaly ratters.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Mr LaForge
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Posted - 2011.05.10 14:39:00 -
[22]
This will certainly be interesting. It'll kill the compensation of LP you get from missioning in a higher sec compared to a lower sec.
Hopefully this and the agent division changes will spread people out more.
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King Rothgar
Path of the Fallen
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Posted - 2011.05.10 17:38:00 -
[23]
That is the other side of it, with agent quality and divisions largely removed, all agents are now equal assuming same system sec. It is of no impact to lvl5 runners as all lvl5's are currently Q12 but it does make all those lvl4 Q-20 agents scattered around suddenly perfectly good options. So in all honesty this could be a buff to lvl4 runners as it will open up agents in better locations that were unused due to their low quality. But no matter how you slice it, it's still an unnecessary nerf to lvl5's. This is assuming the LP skills are truly removed. From the looks of it they may actually still function. I think it's too early to judge exactly what CCP is up to, it may be that they are compacting agents into just 2 classes, combat and non-combat and the LP skills simply haven't been updated yet. Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Swynet
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Posted - 2011.05.10 17:54:00 -
[24]
If the main target is that only a few ones can fly super caps
If the main target is that regular players spending just a few hours IG can't make 100M in a single evening (3 to 4 hours)
If the main target is that every one fly frigates and cruisers because they can' afford bigger than that
Your goal is being achieved.
But I can't see how this changes something for all those big corps/alliances sitting on trillions.
I'm making my break of eve, just connecting to set skills que and some times move some PI. Tired of broken stuff ships/weapons, of game mechanics, nerfs affecting more my wallet since I can't harvest moons and pushing me to do more boring stuff than I was already doing.
Thx for all this, I'm re discovering that even free to play fps's are more dynamic and rewarding
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Niyrah
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:46:00 -
[25]
If CCP wants to keep changing skills around, then they must reimburse the ISK and SP for the things they are taking away. That's my only concern.
These books are aprox 15mil each with LP costs...way more than the learning skills.
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ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:29:00 -
[26]
Originally by: X Gallentius Will agent quality be removed, or does it stay the same as it is now?
Answer
Holy oldpost Batman!
No dynamic quality! Devs cleared that up on the next page or so of that thread.
Also brand new DevPost is best post! ______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:36:00 -
[27]
Thanks for the update. I guess this means that L5 agent LP will go up since they were all L12 before. Run, run to the L5 agents my friends!
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King Rothgar
Path of the Fallen
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:01:00 -
[28]
Except my tests showed their pay decreased due to LP getting axed. Small boost from the being Q20 is far outweighed by the loss of that 50% LP bonus. Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Goose99
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:27:00 -
[29]
Originally by: King Rothgar Except my tests showed their pay decreased due to LP getting axed. Small boost from the being Q20 is far outweighed by the loss of that 50% LP bonus.
The LP is worth more. That aside, it's horrible for the economy. LP shop is a big isk sink. What they should have done is boost LP payout, nerf bounty and isk payout, drastically increase isk cost of shop exchanges, and remove tag requirement.
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Danika Princip
Minmatar Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:01:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: King Rothgar Except my tests showed their pay decreased due to LP getting axed. Small boost from the being Q20 is far outweighed by the loss of that 50% LP bonus.
The LP is worth more. That aside, it's horrible for the economy. LP shop is a big isk sink. What they should have done is boost LP payout, nerf bounty and isk payout, drastically increase isk cost of shop exchanges, and remove tag requirement.
Which would send the prices of implants and faction mods into freefall.
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