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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 31 post(s) |
justin666
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Posted - 2011.05.12 09:28:00 -
[1831]
Edited by: justin666 on 12/05/2011 09:28:52 i live in the nc and tbh i support this idea because it was wayyy to safe to move about in 0.0 and this is coming come from a "nc bear" so im glad ccp done this
but i want to point out ccp are still flaming stupid for that anom nerf they done because now new ally's cant fund there young empires
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Imigo Montoya
Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 09:29:00 -
[1832]
Originally by: Alissa Solette Either way, asking CCP to nerf stuff because your alliances are to weak, timid, badly organized or too poor (or any combination thereof) is definitely not the way to win any conflicts.
Amusingly enough, this is how everybody seems to feel about the NC. The NC has repelled invasion after invasion over the years (we're yet to see the end of this one...) and people call to nerf drakes and blobs and jump bridges and blue lists and anything that gives sov holders (like the NC) any advantage - "I want my 10 man gang to ge able to bring down a 2k member alliance in one overnight roam, waa".
The list goes on, and so far so has the NC.
and...
Originally by: Alissa Solette I'm not trying to encourage people botting or exploiting the old static plexes (54min Overseer respawn instead of 24h) like the Russians in RA did for literally years but lets be honest: it's a sand box and everyone has the same possibilities. Some people make use of those possibilities and dominate the game... others cry about life being unfair.
Yeah, sure, everybody does have the same opportunity to cheat in the sandbox (botting is cheating). Everybody could play outside the rules, particularly because CCP have up until now been pretty lax in enforcing the rules.
The problem with rules in a game is that if some people play within the boundaries and some people don't and the rules aren't enforced, then you may as well not have them. Imagine a game of soccer where some players play with their hands, or a game of chess where one player keeps putting their pieces back on the board after they've been taken.
Sure, some people might "make use of those possibilities and dominate the game", but when you're not playing within the rules of the game, you're not actually playing the same game (eg soccer using your hands is called rubgy), and therefore aren't really dominating anything in the game.
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.05.12 09:35:00 -
[1833]
Jumpbridges is not the problem, nerfing them is just the easy solution.
Take for instance the mine, which was removed rather than fixed long ago. Imagine how many folks would be using those jumpbridges if you could mine them.
So rather than nerf the limit of jumpbridges to 1 per system, I provide an alternate solution.
Reimplement Minelaunchers and Mines. Fix them so that if the individual leaves null sec that they deactivate to avoid the old problem of getting concorded. If it is not possible to fix them as they were due to loss of personnel then I would suggest creating mobile minefields similar to our mobile warp disruptors. Instead of stopping you warp they deal damage every cycle to your ship until you leave their area of effect. The mines of course damage anyone in their area of effect friend or foe. (T2 Such mine fields should be Friend or Foe where they will only damage enemies (those with less than 0.0 standing to the corp/player) and not friends).
You could then advance it even further and come up with a couple of new ships probably in the transport category. Deep Space Minelayer (level 3 Transport) has a bubble effect similar to that of the HIC warp bubble, has massive resists to its racial mines damage type. Has the +2 WCS of the Deep Space Transport. Deep Penetration Minelayer (level 3 Transport) uses a covert ops cloak to get into position but fits a similar Minefield bubble with similar resists (for example Amarr DSM would have heavy EM resists and deal EM damage with its bubble, Minmatar DSM would have heavy EX resists and deal EX damage with its bubble, etc)
This would be a strategic/tactical tool that could make jumpbridges a lot less safe then they are today but allow the current system to remain effective. (I'd go ahead and still eliminate jump ships from using the jump bridges, and also increasing the fuel hold of the JBs.)
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I'm Down
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:04:00 -
[1834]
Edited by: I''m Down on 12/05/2011 10:04:01 The proper fix to jump bridges is that they should not be on towers, they should be on planets. They should also not be running at the same time as jammers. And jump drive ships should not use bridges.
Those 3 changes keep the logistics alive, while removing the extremely low risk aspect of the problem.
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Zey Nadar
Gallente Unknown Soldiers Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:12:00 -
[1835]
Edited by: Zey Nadar on 12/05/2011 10:14:26
Originally by: Bagehi
The power blocs are not responsible. They are the optimal solution for the current game mechanics. CCP needs to fix the game mechanics, this doesn't do it.
Thats the point, and what CCP and greyscale doesn't understand. The harder they make to defend space, the tighter the coalitions become, because co-operation is the best way to defend space under the changes. CCP seems to have lost touch with reality completely.
And under most of the changes, the individuals and small alliances suffer first. This is true with the anomaly changes.
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Panda Name
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:13:00 -
[1836]
Originally by: Tango Zulu
Originally by: Panda Name one doesn't even need to read the specifics of the upcoming changes to see that it's a good thing. simply stated, the extreme echoing of NC tears puts my heart at rest in the knowledge that CCP is doing the right thing. may the amarrian gods bless you, CCP.
Be careful what you post, friend. Statements like that, with a character in a corp with an empire's name in it, prove that a notable portion of the people who approve of this don't actually know anything meaningful about the change. You're approving it because of vindictiveness rather than it actually promoting its intended effect. You invalidated your cause by speaking about it.
wrong. god you are bad at this game.
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Solomon XI
Hidden Souls
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:21:00 -
[1837]
Edited by: Solomon XI on 12/05/2011 10:23:01 @ CCP:
Whoever thought of this idea should commit harakiri.
This idea is a ****-poor attempt at fixing a very real problem and will cause more problems in the short term and long term.
CCP - You are doing it wrong.
--- PS: I'm an old null-sec player myself but grew tired of all the crap that went into living in null-security. It just wasn't fun. I'm very happy being an Empire dweller now with an occasional run into low-security for lawls.
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Kingston Black
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:29:00 -
[1838]
everyone who is whinging about this little change needs to harden the **** up or get out. Having to jump one wittle gate for the next jumpbridge? Cry me a river jumpbridges should be removed it'll give a reason for people to make ships and mods in deep 0.0 and sell them there.
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:35:00 -
[1839]
Originally by: Kingston Black everyone who is whinging about this little change needs to harden the **** up or get out. Having to jump one wittle gate for the next jumpbridge? Cry me a river jumpbridges should be removed it'll give a reason for people to make ships and mods in deep 0.0 and sell them there.
You can't mine enough low end materials to meet even a moderate sized alliances needs in 0.0, it is why they buy low ends in empire and ship them to 0.0. Most alliances do build ships in 0.0, but the mineral restrictions particularly the amounts are to restrictive to support the population. Future promises of industry index fixes etc are just that future promises that may or may not ever materialize.
If you want more t2 production then you have to redo how the moons are seeded to ensure each region has some availability to each material. The easiest way would be to use a PI like system for Moons with the colonies providing the materials needed.
Its amazing how many folks don't realize those truths.
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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:41:00 -
[1840]
Originally by: Bobbeh Less than 2 days 1800+ posts
Wonder if CCP will realize this isnt a good idea.
And furthermore that the little PL flies whispering in their ear, arent a true 0.0 entity. They are mercs, and dont need sov, or jbs, or sanctums, or any of the stuff they want to get rid of.
They want alliances that actually take sov not to have the ability to defend it effectively cause then they can just rofl stomp them. PL has no bearings on how 0.0 should change cause they dont hold sov, or maintain a group of pilots in a region, or need JB's, or need anything related to 0.0.
So stop posting and cheering and saying it will help 0.0 cause well you dont live here you just show up when someone pays you.
Your time will come and when it does (either theft or flavour of the month dieing out or no contracts or well everyone gets sick of you) we will be here pointing and laughing at the pathetic losers that remain and think they are cool... oh wait you already think your cool don't you...
I guess a: U mad ? suites here well. If the NC would now as active in joining defense fleets as they are here whining over a minor change for the better...
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Kingston Black
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:43:00 -
[1841]
tosh, i farm drones and get more than enough minerals to keep me in battlecruisers, depends where you live. If there is a market for the minerals the miners will come, they alays do, the crappy buffer on hulks and their aversion to bombs is another issue
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Miyuki Yotaka
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:53:00 -
[1842]
Quote: We will then start implementing changes that will hopefully end up making 0.0 a better place to live than it is today.
Then why remove the whole point of a JB network..?? That's one of the main benefits of having space in 0.0. =/
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Insidious
0utbreak
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Posted - 2011.05.12 11:06:00 -
[1843]
Edited by: Insidious on 12/05/2011 11:11:50
Originally by: JC Anderson Edited by: JC Anderson on 12/05/2011 00:46:24
Back when I was with the ASCN, (Yes I know, we sucked) jump bridges did not exist... Jump freighters did not exist... Warp to 0 did not exist (Though we all had thousands of insta's)... And at the time even jump drive capable standard carriers and dreads were extremely rare...
What we had was numbers to include us in the alliances with thousands of members category. We held on to our space for quite awhile until BOB, MC, and a few others finally dismantled the ASCN in an extremely successful invasion.
My point is that despite lacking these things, we still were able to build an economic infrastructure and sustain ourselves as well as our individual members through careful management. We actually had to patrol our space, and guard the entrances to it as well. And once every two weeks we would form a freighter convoy with about 300 or so escort ships and fly the 45 jumps gate to gate from our space to the main trade hub that we used in Empire. We used an advance scout fleet in front, another fleet of escorts WITH the freighters, and a final fleet that stayed one behind to watch for attackers coming up from the rear.
One of the best parts of the game was that there were more options when it came to attacking your enemies than simply invading their space. And one of those ways was to attack their supply lines directly by staging ambushes on their freighter convoys when they were most vulnerable. Things such as this provided a way for smaller groups to inflict crippling blows against the larger alliances.
It's just sad that with all the additions to make things "easier" and "safer" in null, these sort of things no longer take place as there is no longer a need. It was a big part of the game, and I have to admit that I miss it.
+1 I cant say it enough I've resubscribed after over a year watching and waiting for the moment balls are grown.
p.s. oh and too mention the first changes go in 1 day after my birthday im all giddy
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Sirhc1
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Posted - 2011.05.12 11:22:00 -
[1844]
Oh Goody! Now all the Devs playing that can't dominate easily in 0.0 will now be able to skate through. You really Suc. This is one more nail getting closer to the final one in the Eve-Online Coffin....you guys much be making too much money per month.... Who's idea was this anyway?
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M1ep1e
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Posted - 2011.05.12 11:48:00 -
[1845]
Please forgive me but I haven't read all of the responses yet:
Here are my comments:
1) changes to jump bridges would be completely acceptable provided CCP were able to control macro ratting. This change will simply lead to increased use of titans, so either CCP are going to have to do a lot more to stem macro ratting, especially the rampant abuse among the drone Russians (omg have you ever roamed out there? there's one macro ratter per system....!!!!), so that people who don't cheat can keep up with Titan production, or an alternative means to create a temporary jump bridge should be devised... I'm thinking here about a configurable jump bridge that, like a jump clone, can be modified once a day. This will allow reconfiguration in order to adjust for changes in the tactical situation.
All in all, this change plays into the hand of those who don't really need jump bridges because they can buy Titans like Rifters.... oh wait.. who is on the counsel? LOL Now I get it.
As for the other questions the dev had.
Quote: * Is 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there?
I can't see why it isn't or why it needs any adjustment. One thing that may be needed in the future is the ability to produce a supercap in a station factory and/or to produce the components in a station and allow for final production in a 1 week timeframe.
Quote:
* Is the relationship between 0.0 and empire balanced well enough?
What is empire? Eve online is three games. (1) It's for old WOW players who run missions and want rewards with no risk (2) it's for role players who get their kicks from faction warfare and the idea that they can "win" the game if they try hard enough and (3) there is player controlled content.
If it's necessary for CCP's business model then continue developing high-sec content. For those of us who live in 0.0 few have ever run missions and those who have hated it and/or gave it up when we discovered how the game was intended to be played.
High sec? Meh. for the sake of CCP I understand it but for the sake of the game Concord should become a "faction" (finally a faction with some meaning). This new "Concord faction" should be allowed to anchor as many sentry guns as they want where ever they want. That would make low-sec dynamic because you can't just set up your ship to tank 350 dps and be invulnerable to sentry guns..... It would also allow for Concord to choose to make some areas "ultra safe" while other areas were less safe depending on resources and resistance from hostile outlaws. The divisions between high/low/null sec will become blurred depending on how many concord pilots there are.
Quote:
* Does the current sovereignty system meet our goals?
Grinding sov has become more involved and holding sov has become easier than it used to be. That means making things in 0.0 more static. It also leads to two other effects.
1) The mother ship is the new dreadnaught. Dreadnaughts have lost their traditional role for sov grinding and dreads are more or less useless now. Moms and titans have taken over the sov grinding role
however....
2) Because there is no multiple "smaller ship" solution to mother ships, sov grinding has become a simple calculation of "who ever has the most mother ships will win". Cap warfare is broken.
Two frigates can take down a cruiser Two cruisers can take down a battle cruiser Two Battlecruisers can down a battleship three or four battleships with a couple of logis can take down a carrier if it's tackled but it takes a minimum of 20 carriers/dreads to take down a mother ship
In the old days we used to have the "dooms-day win button"... that was "jump in the titan... DD and win".
... continued
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M1ep1e
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Posted - 2011.05.12 11:50:00 -
[1846]
.. cintinued from previous post..
That button still exists. But now it's just a simple calculation. Whoever has the most moms wins. It's that simple and that's wrong. There needs to be a new role for dreadnaughts so multiple dreads (3-4) with support can take down a mom. That would give a dread a new (and badly needed) role and it would make mom's vulnerable to attack by multiple ships of a smaller class... like all other ships.
Quote:
* Are there enough incentives for conflict/pvp outside sov?
dunno... and I don't know if it matters. There would appear to be enough eveonline players who play the game for PVP that they managed to make chances happen. The only mechanic, if you ask me, that's broken is that there isn't a multiple smaller ship answer to mother ships.
Quote:
* Are we happy with movement/player interaction?
MORE PVP = a good thing
However, alliances stage attacks from long distances so if you want attack/counter-attack possibilities then you need to allow for that movement. If you nerf jump bridges (especially considering your inability to hem-in macro ratting the the drone regions) then you create an even more static and biased situation than we now have...
To solve that I would suggest the following:
1) re-balance dreads to allow for a jump bridge capability and a "mini" focused-dd that would allow for more movement and the possibility for 3-4 dreads with support to threaten a mother ship (like 3-4 BS with support can threaten a carrier)
2) vastly extend the bridge range of a titan in order to allow insertion of forces well behind enemy lines. That would allow for some surprises (maximum drama) and it would make alliances think beyond the "whoever had more mother ships wins" paradigm we have right now.
M-
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.05.12 12:05:00 -
[1847]
Originally by: Imigo Montoya The NC has repelled invasion after invasion over the years...
Since all that valiant defensive work has been based exclusively on the teleportion system (bridges) and raw numbers, the outpouring of frustration is understandable.
With bridges being reduced to helping hands rather than full-body exoskeletons and dilation removing a big part of 'numbers > all' the weak, timid and badly organized are going down hard.
ASCN had the right idea, in their aimed for self sufficiency which is why the were the first to do most things: built the first outpost, built the first Titan (or was Molle's born a few days prior, I forget), had the first 'standing army', was the first multi-regional entity etc. All that was accomplished with blood, sweat and tears, old fashioned cooperation and competent leadership.
The only bad thing about the bridge change is that it doesn't really help create natural hubs in null, but my guess is that CCPs muse has the year off and the janitor didn't have any better ideas.
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Imigo Montoya
Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 12:19:00 -
[1848]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Since all that valiant defensive work has been based exclusively on the teleportion system (bridges) and raw numbers, the outpouring of frustration is understandable.
Interesting point - Jump Bridges aren't exclusively used by the NC, they're available to everybody. I even noticed and commented on a DRF guy's post complaining about the nerf... who would have thought!?!
Also, Jump Bridges and numbers aren't the only tools the NC have, so saying that the NC repelled invasions exclusively based on those is a little bit of a stretch methinks.
You seem to be forgetting that we're all carebears - we have a solid industrial backbone.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.05.12 12:31:00 -
[1849]
Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 12/05/2011 12:34:37
Originally by: Imigo Montoya ..so saying that the NC repelled invasions exclusively based on those is a little bit of a stretch methinks.
Absolute truth just makes for boring reading, a little colouration does wonders
Originally by: Imigo Montoya You seem to be forgetting that we're all carebears - we have a solid industrial backbone.
So did ASCN, their problem was that they didn't have much else so fell apart when the wolves got through the fence.
PS: Get all your carebear friends posting in Mitten's FarmVille thread in AH so the inevitable industry revamp is as good as it can be from the start instead of CCPs usual half-assed solution that take years to mature.
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Imigo Montoya
Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 12:57:00 -
[1850]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida So did ASCN, their problem was that they didn't have much else so fell apart when the wolves got through the fence.
Kind of my point exactly, the wolves have been through the fence plenty if times, and heaps of fun was had all round - by both the wolves and the farmers trying to remove them to protect the sheep.
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida PS: Get all your carebear friends posting in Mitten's FarmVille thread in AH so the inevitable industry revamp is as good as it can be from the start instead of CCPs usual half-assed solution that take years to mature.
It seems that some of those half-assed solutions only take 7 days...
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Om'en
Minmatar Hyperion LTD.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 13:00:00 -
[1851]
CCP Soundwave and the eve fanbois crack me up!!
CCP you guys are buying your own BS? I understand the players buying into it but you guys?? lol
EVE is the biggest hack job of all time. Its not open world PVP! Its heavily instanced PVP at its very core, every system is an instance with a campable spawn point no less. Things such as cynos and JB's make it more open world but it is still far from open world.
Fleet fights are just pre mades with no limits even Blizzard could do that and get the same results of nobody being able to move or control the avatar. I will give you props for pushing the tech to allow 1000 before its gets real crappy.
Bottom line you guys are still indies that started an amazing game, but here we are 8 years later and now you want to make it more shallow and small by focusing on choke point pvp. you got to be kidding me!!
Tell ya what if you make gates a bridge or launching pad to next system trapping people trying to leave i can go with that, but some how make it like a super warp with a short little load and continue warping and land some random location in target system would do to things. #1 make eve way more immersive. #2 make it so only the FC can warp and land the fleet together would create a more challenge to defend space and allow both sides to actually do more than bubble the **** out of the gates and shoot non loaders.
So before you start swinging nerf bats around aimlessly why don't you rework the systems and add them in together. Fix List #1 all the sov timers suck and need a stream lined. shouldn't have so many shoots on structures. we need more strategic task's to get or loose sov not multi million things with HP's 3 times a week. #2 Sov space must be able to sustain Industry, and then you can cut us off from Jita. #3 Fix Gallente!!! #4 Nerf Moon Goo and remove Concord bills. Don't make it useless just make not so profitable. #5 Travel systems that does both create Good PVP and allow Strategy to prevail not just a bubble on a gate and ganking haulers.
Just my opinion but for me EVE never really ever felt that big its just one instance to the next with spawn points to get zerged on. as for the 1 shard thing SWG could have done with more and bigger planets and larger cities and that was real open world this is not but it could so much more than an illusion of it all it seems to me now is like an a 8 year old Black Prophecy or Vindictus. Sorry never felt lost in space before when its gate to gate, its actually a cheap design imo. worked 8 years ago but don't ya think you can move past it and do something complex.
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Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
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Posted - 2011.05.12 13:19:00 -
[1852]
Posting in a thread full of tears -- please consider to visit our w-space system, cake will be served immediately. |
Lady Callia
Caldari The Graduates
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Posted - 2011.05.12 13:20:00 -
[1853]
CCP you should do a change like this in a broader release to improve 0.0 space, just removing jumpbridges is a bad idea imho
Some things could 'soften' this change though:
Cyno jammer onlining time Shorten the onlining time of a jammer to 2 minutes, so capitals can be moved more safely while there are still possibilities for hostiles to engage.
Allow multiple outposts per system A major function of jumpbridges is not so much fleet logistics as just industrial logistics, like moving minerals and reactions. Allowing multiple outposts per 0.0 system would remove the need for at least connections between refineries and factories. Never made sense anyway to have the 1 op per system rule only in 0.0
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Sexasaurus Rex
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Posted - 2011.05.12 13:37:00 -
[1854]
An elegant and simple solution to the perceived problem of no longer being able to bridge capital ships into cynojammed systems after this change: remove cynojammers from the game. |
ceaon
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Posted - 2011.05.12 13:38:00 -
[1855]
just remove JB
JB is stupid game feature
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
If the whole country is corrupted then it's no longer corruption but culture.
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Panem EtCircenses
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Posted - 2011.05.12 13:50:00 -
[1856]
Also, just remove local.
Local is stupid game feature
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.05.12 14:04:00 -
[1857]
Originally by: Panem EtCircenses Also, just remove local.
Local is stupid game feature
This.
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Hague Starcatcher
Tanngrisnir and Tanngnjostr
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Posted - 2011.05.12 14:25:00 -
[1858]
Jump Bridges are life support for 0.0. You might want to make sure the patient will survive before you turn them off. "Walk a mile in another man's shoes, that way he's a mile away and barefoot..." |
ANGAL 2000
FinFleet Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 14:25:00 -
[1859]
Originally by: Bobbeh Less than 2 days 1800+ posts
Wonder if CCP will realize this isnt a good idea.
And furthermore that the little PL flies whispering in their ear, arent a true 0.0 entity. They are mercs, and dont need sov, or jbs, or sanctums, or any of the stuff they want to get rid of.
They want alliances that actually take sov not to have the ability to defend it effectively cause then they can just rofl stomp them. PL has no bearings on how 0.0 should change cause they dont hold sov, or maintain a group of pilots in a region, or need JB's, or need anything related to 0.0.
So stop posting and cheering and saying it will help 0.0 cause well you dont live here you just show up when someone pays you.
Your time will come and when it does (either theft or flavour of the month dieing out or no contracts or well everyone gets sick of you) we will be here pointing and laughing at the pathetic losers that remain and think they are cool... oh wait you already think your cool don't you...
Why are the 30% of the thread about the nc crying no more 0.0 after this patch, It is evident 0.0 will still be their, And we had the same thing just over a month ago with the anom nurf and plex boost.
bobbeh you are an idiot you are part of the main problem in eve and yet you think the nc has full control over the game, over 90% of the player base are ether happy to have this change come in to full effect or have no interest in this subject given low/high sec has no jump bridge.
Like many other's happy to support this long over due change great work ccp.
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davet517
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.12 14:49:00 -
[1860]
Originally by: Bobbeh
So stop posting and cheering and saying it will help 0.0 cause well you dont live here you just show up when someone pays you.
Your time will come and when it does (either theft or flavour of the month dieing out or no contracts or well everyone gets sick of you) we will be here pointing and laughing at the pathetic losers that remain and think they are cool... oh wait you already think your cool don't you...
Thank you Sir. Pitchfork wielding farmers cursing me as I ride away from their burning village is what keeps me logging in. I am sure that I will one day meet a righteous and poetically just demise for my crimes against the peace loving peoples of the galaxy.
Your angst aside, though, I have at times been both sov holder and merc in the last 8 years. There is always a balance that has to be struck between being able to farm isk with impunity and stuff getting destroyed. Right now, there is too much isk being made, and not enough stuff blowing up. The balance needs to shift in the stuff blowing up direction.
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