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Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
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Posted - 2011.05.11 03:07:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Hieronimus Rex If you want to play the game alone, just go play Freelancer....
*******
Not what I said... The aim of the proposal is to draw all those "loners" into the shooting.. You know they outnumber you in the "groups".. and you know they are not now participating. or is it you are afraid to have to face waves of "loners"? shouldn't be a problem for you "group highly organized" types, I'm sure... "Got License?" - TNMF |
Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
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Posted - 2011.05.11 03:09:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Quanil
Originally by: Martyr Theos
********
Valid points Quanil, but I'm not suggesting forcing anyone to do anything... just saying that more firepower for the individual would be a powerful motivator for many pilots. Perhaps not you, but that's OK. As for everyone using it... That would be the hoped for result !
Actually it would not be any better. That was my point. Though after having re-read my own post, I didn't make it very clearly. If you had effective AoE, you would just end up with blobs of AoE boats. Which would lead yet again to "whoever has the larger blob wins". If it was the case that each person had a specific class or defined role, that wouldn't be the true, because not everyone could use said AoE. It also would not be eve. As it sits there is no way to counter a blob except with a blob, and there never will be. The system is designed to support it.
***
What you are missing is that small groups could still attack with effect. "Got License?" - TNMF |
Erik CoolBreeze
Amarr eve-universe.net
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:47:00 -
[33]
rock-paper-scissors-blob, he who is not strong, must be smart. professional web development for the eve community |
Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2011.05.11 05:07:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Martyr Theos Yep.. the more I think about it.. the more I believe individual counter-balance to group action is just what Eve needs.
The more I think about it, the more I think the OP is an idiot.
1) Carebear goes and blows stuff up using a weapon that by definition cannot be fired in high sec (and maybe even low sec) ala the old Titan Doomsday (which required massive SP and ISK to put on a battlefield). 2) Another carebear does this 3) Another carebear does this .... N-1) Another carebear does this N) No one left in 0.0 to use the weapon on - congrats - carebears have blown up every object in 0.0 as it is not economical to rebuild that which a carebear can blow up with a cheap for lolz weapon platform.
Congratulations - the carebears have won Eve...
P.S. - I live in high-sec/low sec and yet can detect the folly in this. P.P.S. I DO hope this WAS a troll, or I weep for the future of humanity if the OP is representative of those that consider the proposal LOGICAL!!!
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Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:39:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Har Harrison
Originally by: Martyr Theos Yep.. the more I think about it.. the more I believe individual counter-balance to group action is just what Eve needs.
The more I think about it, the more I think the OP is an idiot.
1) Carebear goes and blows stuff up using a weapon that by definition cannot be fired in high sec (and maybe even low sec) ala the old Titan Doomsday (which required massive SP and ISK to put on a battlefield). 2) Another carebear does this 3) Another carebear does this .... N-1) Another carebear does this N) No one left in 0.0 to use the weapon on - congrats - carebears have blown up every object in 0.0 as it is not economical to rebuild that which a carebear can blow up with a cheap for lolz weapon platform.
Congratulations - the carebears have won Eve...
P.S. - I live in high-sec/low sec and yet can detect the folly in this. P.P.S. I DO hope this WAS a troll, or I weep for the future of humanity if the OP is representative of those that consider the proposal LOGICAL!!!
************
Your post clearly demonstrates three things... 1) That you agree this change would motivate carebears to come to zero to BSU. 2) That you do not believe "collective" organized zero-dwellers could adapt. 3) That you agree this change would result in massive participation in PvP.
"Got License?" - TNMF |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:49:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Martyr Theos As a side note to CCP.. more "Blowing Shyt Up" would require the consumption of more isk which would naturally follow as more shyt was blown up.
Blowing stuff up doesn't really consume ISK ù it just indirectly moves it around (and, in fact, generally creates ISK in the process). ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:58:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Martyr Theos As a side note to CCP.. more "Blowing Shyt Up" would require the consumption of more isk which would naturally follow as more shyt was blown up.
Blowing stuff up doesn't really consume ISK ù it just indirectly moves it around (and, in fact, generally creates ISK in the process).
**********
Do you really believe that all the ships and fittings that blow up in this game are built with isk derived from ingame isk sources.. or do you believe that plex is purchased with RL cash and then sold on the market for isk to build ships?
I believe the latter is more prevalent than you think. I believe BSU will result in more cash in CCP's pocket. "Got License?" - TNMF |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:06:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Martyr Theos Do you really believe that all the ships and fittings that blow up in this game are built with isk derived from ingame isk sources.
Seeing as how that's is the only source of ISK, yesà
àunless you're implying that some unnamed party has discovered a way to inject false numbers into the CCP databases.
PLEX don't generate ISK either, you know ù they also just move it around (and, in fact, remove ISK in the process). ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:13:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 11/05/2011 15:07:32
Originally by: Martyr Theos Do you really believe that all the ships and fittings that blow up in this game are built with isk derived from ingame isk sources.
Seeing as how that's is the only source of ISK, yesà
àunless you're implying that some unnamed party has discovered a way to inject false numbers into the CCP databases.
PLEX don't create ISK either, you know ù they also just move it around (and, in fact, remove ISK in the process).
*****************
The point you are missing is that this game's REVENUE is created when players "move isk around" as you describe. "Got License?" - TNMF |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:20:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Martyr Theos The point you are missing is that this game's REVENUE is created when players "move isk around" as you describe.
I'm not missing that point. I'm simply commenting on your somewhat sloppy (to the point of being misleading) descriptions of how ISK flows in the gameà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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Lost Greybeard
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:23:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Lost Greybeard on 11/05/2011 15:26:07
Originally by: Ben Morto
Originally by: Martyr Theos except it would not require a blob to blow shyt up.. blowing shyt up is the essence of fun in this game... ergo more blowing shyt up = more fun.. Q.E.D.
The point he's trying to make is that if a ship is powerful solo it will be even more powerful in a blob so people will just switch to blobbing with the new overpowered ship.
If you switch priority to offense and reduce the importance of defense you're going to see a lot more battles resolved in favor of the smaller group, because organized firing patterns and first strike suddenly means a lot more.
That said, I've not seen anything wrong with how the game works now. There are parts of it I don't like, i.e. 100000000 ship lagfests, and I just stay out of that part of space and thus do not have to care about it. The varied PvP restrictions and mechanics allow a wide variety of play-styles to dominate different regions.
EDIT: Regarding "they'd just bring a bigger AE blob: remember that your ship can't get any deader than dead. If five bombs can kill everything, then five bombs will kill the 3000-ship bomb blob just as fast as the five-ship bomb blob (assuming they both fit in the radius) making them essentially equal in "fair" combat. ---
If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous |
baltec1
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:57:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Martyr Theos
You underestimate the power of a single AFK bomber in a ratting system.
**********
No I haven't... I've been there and done that and bombers can't dent cheese unless used in groups. The bombs just don't have enough DP.
You didnt do it very well then seeing as I managed to solo BS and keep 60+ people docked up for days on end.
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:30:00 -
[43]
Stop saying 'shyt', it
- Bypasses the language filter and - Makes you look even more ridiculous than you already are
That is all. -------------- Fix the game's last broken weapon system - support if you care!
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Fuzzy Wuzzi
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:36:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Bumblefck Stop saying 'shyt', it
- Bypasses the language filter and - Makes you look even more ridiculous than you already are
That is all.
I agree, you really just don't get the full effect of the word when it's spelled wrong. I don't know if it's going to filter me out but, sh!t looks A LOT better than shyt. Even $hit does or sh*t.
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Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2011.05.12 03:05:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Martyr Theos Edited by: Martyr Theos on 11/05/2011 14:52:22 Edited by: Martyr Theos on 11/05/2011 14:50:53
Originally by: Har Harrison
Originally by: Martyr Theos Yep.. the more I think about it.. the more I believe individual counter-balance to group action is just what Eve needs.
The more I think about it, the more I think the OP is an idiot.
1) Carebear goes and blows stuff up using a weapon that by definition cannot be fired in high sec (and maybe even low sec) ala the old Titan Doomsday (which required massive SP and ISK to put on a battlefield). 2) Another carebear does this 3) Another carebear does this .... N-1) Another carebear does this N) No one left in 0.0 to use the weapon on - congrats - carebears have blown up every object in 0.0 as it is not economical to rebuild that which a carebear can blow up with a cheap for lolz weapon platform.
Congratulations - the carebears have won Eve...
P.S. - I live in high-sec/low sec and yet can detect the folly in this. P.P.S. I DO hope this WAS a troll, or I weep for the future of humanity if the OP is representative of those that consider the proposal LOGICAL!!!
************
Your post clearly demonstrates three things... 1) That you agree this change would motivate carebears to come to zero to BSU. 2) That you do not believe "collective" organized zero-dwellers could adapt. 3) That you agree this change would result in massive participation in PvP.
Is that a drop of sweat I see running down your brow?
All your post demonstrates is that you didn't read mine where I said I did not live in 0.0, so this would NOT affect me.
Further to that, it also shows you lack the ability to understand cause and effect since NO ONE can adapt to an "I win" button. Hence, rather then promote PvP (which you seem to think is purely people gate camping their system entry points to stop people coming in with these I win button weapon platforms), you actually remove all desire to engage in PvP since it has only one possible ultimate outcome - the loss of your infrastucture. End result - no one PvPs in 0.0 as no one lives there anymore... Though it may mean that people return to FW as the only remaining non-high sec form of PvP without going < -5
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El Boneshaker
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Posted - 2011.05.12 05:02:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Martyr Theos
and the point you keep ignoring is that the "individual" pilot will be able to actually BLOW SHYT UP despite the blob and, knowing this, every highsec pilot who would love to BLOW SHYT UP would flock to it because despite the fact that they will get blown up, they will know that they will get to BLOW SHYT UP in the process !
Imagine the effect of such a change on the game IF the first ship thru the gate could unleash a bomb that could BLOW ALL THE SHYT UP on the entry grid... Do you think that might even make FLEETS HAVE TO CONSIDER THEIR DISTRIBUTION IN SPACE? They might fly "spread out"... this is what the Dooms Day Device tried to do, but I am proposing that a small ship should be able to do it. I'm proposing mass chaos, mayhem, and murder... in short, unbridled pvp.
Now at first I was like nah man dis guy is wack yo! But then! Then I read this above quote and said to myself wowee! That DOES intrigue me.
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.05.12 07:37:00 -
[47]
Logically, to counter blobs, we need to reduce every ships dps to 5% what it is now so that people wont die too quickly.
Also to make the game more strategically viable, reps speed and ammount should be quadrupled
IE, a 500 dps drake 100,000 EHP should really have 25 dps and 100,000 EHP. This way, it will be much more difficult to blob.
And a single scimitar rep would rep 50,000 EHP every 3 seconds on a drake
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Anelie Pwnsky
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Posted - 2011.05.12 07:47:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Ben Morto
Originally by: Martyr Theos except it would not require a blob to blow shyt up.. blowing shyt up is the essence of fun in this game... ergo more blowing shyt up = more fun.. Q.E.D.
The point he's trying to make is that if a ship is powerful solo it will be even more powerful in a blob so people will just switch to blobbing with the new overpowered ship.
No more Drake blobs please
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Nypheas Azurai
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Posted - 2011.05.12 08:15:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Hieronimus Rex If you want to play the game alone, just go play Freelancer....
Freelancer was actually a pretty cool guy. He had multiplayer servers, direct ship control, docking animations, proper fleet formations, etc. and doesn't afraid of lag.
tbh given what it already had going, freelancer would have been ten times better than EVE if it had even half as many man hours as CCP put into the new forums.
--------------------
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Neamus
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Posted - 2011.05.12 08:37:00 -
[50]
Aww I'd love to see a Freelancer 2, I don't understand why Microsoft dropped it. The 1st day I got it I think I ended up playing for 18 hours straight.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.12 09:51:00 -
[51]
You mean make it more fun to you. Most of us think its worth playing as is. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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m3rr
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:04:00 -
[52]
I just wonder how must of the people in this thread play eve online with two thumbs stuck up their arse
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Miss Rabblt
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:21:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Martyr Theos That you do not believe "collective" organized zero-dwellers could adapt.
would you explain tactic for adapt to situation when 1(!!!) occasional ship can blow POS or something big and expensive? I see few points: 1) move to WH (hope noone find you) 2) block every gates in system by boobles and alpha- ganks for 23/7 to kill any non-blue ship visiting system.
Not sure if one of it improves pvp or fun from game.
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Arnakoz
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Posted - 2011.05.12 12:46:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Martyr Theos except it would not require a blob to blow shyt up.. blowing shyt up is the essence of fun in this game... ergo more blowing shyt up = more fun.. Q.E.D.
just because it doesn't require a blob to blow something up doesn't mean people wouldn't still seek safety/power in numbers. no matter what you do, 5 ships will always be better than 1. and 10 better than 5. so how about we start trying to work within that truth rather than defeating it. ?
further, this idea would only make it so that solo noobs could be more successful at griefing large scale alliances. which doesn't make much sense IMO: should i be able to single-handedly cripple the caldari state?! .... that would be dumb... if you want to take on a power, then create a power that is greater...
moreover, i see solo pilots and small gangs in hostile territory being successful at killing targets constantly. i've lived in 3 completely different nullsec spaces thus far (wicked creek then pure blind now old IT space (which i can't spell the name of :) ) and seen this regularly in all three. they may not be directly taking the alliance down, but they are hurting profits and cuases ragequits just he same. so if you can't manage to do it, then i doubt that is the game's fault.
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Daniela Darr
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Posted - 2011.05.12 13:03:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Miss Rabblt would you explain tactic for adapt to situation when 1(!!!) occasional ship can blow POS or something big and expensive?
POS? Expensive? Since when? A large POS with facilities isn't that much more expensive than an average pimped L4 mission ship. It's a bit harder to crack though ...
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Katra Novac
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Posted - 2011.05.12 14:50:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Martyr Theos
Originally by: Ben Morto
Originally by: Martyr Theos except it would not require a blob to blow shyt up.. blowing shyt up is the essence of fun in this game... ergo more blowing shyt up = more fun.. Q.E.D.
The point he's trying to make is that if a ship is powerful solo it will be even more powerful in a blob so people will just switch to blobbing with the new overpowered ship.
**************
You missed the point entirely. What pilots do collectively as a group is completely unconnected and irrelevent to the fact that a SINGLE pilot in today's EVE is completely incapable of doing ANY significant damage. Highsec dwellers know this. They know that to penetrate losec or zero requires a coordinated "blob" action to DO anything significant (i.e. Blow Shyt Up), therefore they do not do it. Instead they simply do not participate in the very core element of EVE, which is Blowing Shyt Up. If they could, they would and EVE would be better for it.
Any clearer now?
So what you're really saying is you don't like teaming so you would prefer to solo more (reminder, it's an MMO)? Anyway, I guess people feel safer in blobs. Biggest problem is kill mails they should be got rid of, those encourage some people to play in a way that they're only really interested in bragging about their kills.
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Zyress
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:11:00 -
[57]
If breaking up blobs is your aim then high output area of effect weapons are a good way to do that but the economics of the situation dictate that such a weapon must be appropriately expensive to use. I.E. the The Titan you have to have to use it at least in its old Doomsday Device incarnation. Making overpowered Stealthbombers will just make stealth bomber blobs, which come to think of it is the best way to use a stealth bomber in its present form anyway.
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Zyress
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:18:00 -
[58]
Originally by: stoicfaux I think the OP is suggesting something along the idea of Spinal Mount weaponry, aka A-10itis, or If You Carry Big, You Don't Need To Be Big. Instead of some dinky little gun in a dinky little turret, imagine the caliber of weapon you could fit if your ship was built around a single huge weapon.
Eve would be rather interesting of ships were as vulnerable to weapons fire as real life ships are, instead of this every-ship-is-a-fortress-I-hope-you-brought-a-lot-of-trebuchets paradigm.
I rather like long fights much more interesting than a one shot deal, there's time for tactics, its one of the things I like most about combat in this game.
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Morganta
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:20:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Martyr Theos
Originally by: Ben Morto
Originally by: Martyr Theos except it would not require a blob to blow shyt up.. blowing shyt up is the essence of fun in this game... ergo more blowing shyt up = more fun.. Q.E.D.
The point he's trying to make is that if a ship is powerful solo it will be even more powerful in a blob so people will just switch to blobbing with the new overpowered ship.
**************
You missed the point entirely. What pilots do collectively as a group is completely unconnected and irrelevent to the fact that a SINGLE pilot in today's EVE is completely incapable of doing ANY significant damage. Highsec dwellers know this. They know that to penetrate losec or zero requires a coordinated "blob" action to DO anything significant (i.e. Blow Shyt Up), therefore they do not do it. Instead they simply do not participate in the very core element of EVE, which is Blowing Shyt Up. If they could, they would and EVE would be better for it.
Any clearer now?
I disagree, while it may be rather hard (not impossible) to do any real damage solo in null, you can grief the living **** out of people in null in a solo ship. if you stumble onto a system with people missioning, mining or even gate camping, your simple presence puts em off their game, you can sit in a covops and toally shut down operations in a system and agro the hell out of the residents. Want more fun, go bomb that pos and watch local as the owner corp gets spammed with emails saying the pos is being attacked.
you can easily ruin people's day without even doing anything serious or risky, it don't have to be about the KM, an empty wallet extracts tears pretty well
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Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
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Posted - 2011.05.12 16:13:00 -
[60]
Originally by: El Boneshaker
Originally by: Martyr Theos
and the point you keep ignoring is that the "individual" pilot will be able to actually BLOW SHYT UP despite the blob and, knowing this, every highsec pilot who would love to BLOW SHYT UP would flock to it because despite the fact that they will get blown up, they will know that they will get to BLOW SHYT UP in the process !
Imagine the effect of such a change on the game IF the first ship thru the gate could unleash a bomb that could BLOW ALL THE SHYT UP on the entry grid... Do you think that might even make FLEETS HAVE TO CONSIDER THEIR DISTRIBUTION IN SPACE? They might fly "spread out"... this is what the Dooms Day Device tried to do, but I am proposing that a small ship should be able to do it. I'm proposing mass chaos, mayhem, and murder... in short, unbridled pvp.
Now at first I was like nah man dis guy is wack yo! But then! Then I read this above quote and said to myself wowee! That DOES intrigue me.
***********
Ah.. I see a few brave souls warming to the idea...
Eve is supposed to have a "counter" for everything... The counter for the "collective" Mob Empires in Zero is the Mad Anarcho-Solo "NOVA BOMB" Wielder.. Chaos is good ! BSU is fun ! Make it so today ! Bring back the grins ! "Got License?" - TNMF |
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