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Dracko Malus
Gallente Secte Rouge
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:18:00 -
[1]
So, I got popped in a 0.5 last night.. in my Fully 38m3 expanded Iteron V, shipping 3 Tech3 ships, and 5 Tech3 Subsystems. A total of 15.5m3 which could have been better shipped in a smaller, stronger vessel, I admit. I was lazy, and wanted a quick profit by hauling from Jita >.< cost me 781m.
What is the best thing to do to avoid this in the future? I understand I can start running an Occator, because it has a +2 to Warp strength guaranteeing my Warp with up to two jammers.
With how much +1 can a single Pilot jam me? Does the Occator need an Extra +1 Warp Stab, or can I just fit a Viator with 2 warp stabs and assume myself rather safe?
I'm not planning on flying in lower sec than 0.5, but if there is a certain threshold that will make me a bit more Immune to Gatecamps, I'd certainly not avoid lowsec. I like the thrill of the chase in case I get jumped/camped by large groups, and don't mind the occasional loss. But I'd like to stand a good chance.
Any tips?
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Miss Rabblt
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:27:00 -
[2]
1st question: why using 38k m3 fit for hauling 15k m3? I suppose you can put 3 warp stabs into low slots and still have 16-18k m3 in Itty V?
and tip: stuff happens. Iteron isn't battleship. If you get suicide-attack - you are dead. Not sure you can fit Iteron for survive. Just be careful next time. Try to haul less expensive stuff or split one package to several.
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Dracko Malus
Gallente Secte Rouge
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:30:00 -
[3]
Itty used to be Ore Hauler.. thus fully fit for m3's and was too lazy to unfit them :<
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Silence iKillYouu
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2011.05.12 11:07:00 -
[4]
don't autopilot?
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Dracko Malus
Gallente Secte Rouge
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Posted - 2011.05.12 11:38:00 -
[5]
I wasn't actually.. immediately after the jump I selected the next gate and hit warp to within 0m. But sadly the warp didn't initiate fast enough for me to not be targeted and scrambled.
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Daneel Trevize
Black Viper Nomads
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Posted - 2011.05.12 13:05:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Daneel Trevize on 12/05/2011 13:07:28 You meant scramble/point not jam, but there's no need to point you if their guns will alpha you. They don't need to fit tank just scan res and volley-increasing mods (though they might want to fit painters, webs, points, buffer to improve their chances, they'll know if concord will kill them before they'd get another cycle off). Pimped missioning BS aren't safe, don't expect haulers to be. As said, you simply need to make it not worth their while in terms of likely drop vs certain sec hit and GCC time having to wait before they can hit someone again. A route not via the 0.5 bottleneck might be wise if possible.
Wait, you didn't get hit by alpha BSs but a drake. Was there war, recent aggression, or killrights at play? |
Dracko Malus
Gallente Secte Rouge
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Posted - 2011.05.12 16:23:00 -
[7]
Quote: You meant scramble/point not jam, but there's no need to point you if their guns will alpha you.
Oh, yes indeed. I meant that scramble, what does point mean actually?
Quote: Pimped missioning BS aren't safe, don't expect haulers to be.
Hmpf.. so there is no point in fitting a hauler for max tankage either then :< or indeed crank up the Tank so far that they'll need a group to do it. Which seems unlikely in a "high"sec system.
Quote: A route not via the 0.5 bottleneck might be wise if possible.
But nowhere do I cross into actual lowsec..? Or, is 0.5 rather equal due to concord responsetime?
Quote: Wait, you didn't get hit by alpha BSs but a drake. Was there war, recent aggression, or killrights at play?
None of those... I guess a scout scanned my ship somewhere going away from Jita and my assaulter waited for me at a gate. I do recall another ship warping in a few seconds later when I was in Pod and then probably looted the cargo from my wreck turning him red to me.
Where can you see the kill actually? I've been looking for it :P
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Mekhana
Gallente Spiritus Draconis
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Posted - 2011.05.12 17:34:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Mekhana on 12/05/2011 17:45:57 Edited by: Mekhana on 12/05/2011 17:45:38
Originally by: Dracko Malus Oh, yes indeed. I meant that scramble, what does point mean actually?
Hmpf.. so there is no point in fitting a hauler for max tankage either then :< or indeed crank up the Tank so far that they'll need a group to do it. Which seems unlikely in a "high"sec system.
But nowhere do I cross into actual lowsec..? Or, is 0.5 rather equal due to concord responsetime?
None of those... I guess a scout scanned my ship somewhere going away from Jita and my assaulter waited for me at a gate. I do recall another ship warping in a few seconds later when I was in Pod and then probably looted the cargo from my wreck turning him red to me.
Where can you see the kill actually? I've been looking for it :P
1= Point is when someone has warp scrambled or disrupted a target, making it unable to warp away.
2= .5 is high sec all the same. Is your corporation in war, are you in a militia? Otherwise you got suicide ganked. Bad luck I guess.
3= Wrecks in high sec are pretty much free for all. Don't expect your ship to get popped at undock and still expect your stuff to be in the wreck. It's likely not even the gankers themselves got the loot.
4= http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9656055 <-- Click the link to your loss
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Salient
Caldari APOCALYPSE LEGION
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Posted - 2011.05.12 18:42:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Salient on 12/05/2011 18:48:13 nm
ut tensio sic vis |
Rasz Lin
Caldari Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.05.12 19:31:00 -
[10]
800 mil in paper thin iteron? confirming a good idea!
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Jack Abramof
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Posted - 2011.05.12 19:45:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Jack Abramof on 12/05/2011 19:45:44 either use courrier contract or train for T2 transport , simple as that. Courrier contract works very well, understanding that you give a decent reward for the haul.
Create 3 courrrier, 1 for each T3, put between 500 000 and 1 mill reward depending on distance and you will get your stuff moved very fast.
Don be a cheapskate and transport valuable stuff in a T1 hauler especially from Jita to amarr or rens, with 3 T3 in your cargo, you will get ganked, no question asked. Even with 100 millions value , you take a big risk.
Apparently the guy who popped you does this very regularly Linkage
I know a lot of people think they HAVE to haul stuff by themselve, but unless you find exciting to do 20 jumps in a freighter, you better to let do this to people who enjoy it, and do something else instead. You put right collateral, if it goes boom, you dont loose your ship and shipment which seems to be much smarter than hauling your 1 billion cargo in a interon 5
good luck
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BLACK D0G
Lethal Death Squad
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Posted - 2011.05.12 19:58:00 -
[12]
if {possible value of cargo} = {projected loss from concord destroying fleet} then {gank}.
even then some people would gank you at a loss just for the tears.
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Jack Abramof
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Posted - 2011.05.12 20:08:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Jack Abramof on 12/05/2011 20:10:40 I hink im gonna hang around 0.5 systemes more often tbh, i was checking the indies kills in Uedama, where the OP have been ganked, I was amazed at what people moved n a T1 hauler, Command Ships, T3 , BPO,
Worth to wait 1 or 2 hours a day .
check out the kms, 2 @ once 1 tengu and 1 capital BPO in a few sec
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2011.05.12 22:40:00 -
[14]
It might be sidetracking a bit if you're a PVP-specialized pilot, but train for an Orca (I'm going to assume from your comment about the Itty being a former ore hauling ship that you have some mining skills, so it might not be so far out of your way after all). Orca has several benefits for secure hauling:
1) The main cargo hold can get up to about 90,000 m3 if you fit and rig for max cargo. However, if you instead fit a damage control and a T2 reinforced bulkhead, you'll wind up with more EHP than a freighter has, have the ability to fit shield modules in the mid slots to further increase those EHP, and still have 35,000+ m3 in the main cargo hold. It's far more resistant to suicide ganking.
2) The ship has a ship maintenance bay of 400,000 m3, for shipping assembled ships. Most T3 cruisers are about 100k m3, so you might be able to squeeze as many as 4 in there. The only thing ships in the bay can carry in their cargo is "charges".
3) The Orca has a corporate hangar bay of 40,000 m3 which can hold anything.
4) Both the corporate hangar and the ship maintenance bay are not scannable by players (so they won't know what you have in there) and don't drop anything if you do blow up real good (so they don't get anything). ______________________________________________________ PVP is a question that has no one right answer but a lot of wrong ones. - Aelana Anais
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Catherine Airuta
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Posted - 2011.05.13 02:50:00 -
[15]
I would have to agree with the suggestion about training for an Orca. They are fantastic for hauling high value goods because gankers know that the Corp and ship hangars will never drop any loot.
Otherwise if you cannot afford an Orca, then your next safest hauler would be a Blockade Runner, which can fit a Covops cloak but cannot haul as much as a T1 hauler ( but a million times safer )
An Orca is more versatile, you can do so much with them, they are awesome ships, and with a 100MN Micro Warp drive can warp from standstill in ten seconds.
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2011.05.13 03:15:00 -
[16]
Hauling value should be proportional to the survivability of the hauler. That much value is going to get popped. If it's too big to stick in a cargo expanded Rokh, too small for a freighter, and you don't have the SP for a "deep space transport" (ironically most useful in high sec) then just courier contract the goods. You could have red frog'ed that run for a few million and had full collateral.
Holding nearly a billion isk in anything poppable by a small fleet of alts is going to make you an ideal target. The very, absolute least you can do is take a non-obvious, indirect route on which folks with cargo scanners and gankers on standby is less likely to find you.
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Larry Wickes
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Posted - 2011.05.13 04:12:00 -
[17]
You could buy a Freighter; they are much harder to gank.
On a side note, here's an Itty V bait ship getting gankers killed, lol. It's not my vid, but I certainly love it. Itty V takes on gankers
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Larry Wickes
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Posted - 2011.05.13 04:15:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Larry Wickes on 13/05/2011 04:15:51 Edit: Double post.
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xXThunder StruckXx
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Posted - 2011.05.13 08:35:00 -
[19]
Draco at least twice in this thread you state you were just being lazy, why then come in here whining about the loss. Prepare yourself and bad things occur less
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Cpt Bauer
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Posted - 2011.05.13 09:41:00 -
[20]
Originally by: xXThunder StruckXx Draco at least twice in this thread you state you were just being lazy, why then come in here whining about the loss. Prepare yourself and bad things occur less
The title of the thread is "Got what I deserved.. some help?" Wouldn't really class that as whining about the loss.
B
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Batelle
-Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.13 14:22:00 -
[21]
there are plenty of things you can do to make your iteron 5 more survivable, you have 5 lowslots and 5 midslots with which to add tank. A very simple thing is to put agility mods and warp core stabilizers in the lowslots and use 5 mids to get a respectable shield buffer. Don't undock your itty 5 with empty midslots, that's just dumb.
For cargo as valuable as what you had, I would definitely use a t2 hauler or better. Blockade runners don't have the hp or cargo space of heavy transports, but they are speedy speedy speedy, align and warp quickly, and can cloak immediately, meaning that you will not get caught and your cargo will never get scanned. Transport ships are slow, but can fit a very very heavy tank and will be harder to gank.
--------------------------------------------- EC-P8R... You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2011.05.13 22:21:00 -
[22]
A cloaky viator is near impossible to catch in high-sec.
You can also double-wrap your valuables so they can't scan your ship and see that you have nice lootz. The gist of this, is toss the valuables into a can, and courier contract the whole can to an alt/friend. This will generate a double wrapped package that ship scanners can't scan through.
For cruiser+ hulls to be transported in something smaller than a freighter, you can try to courier contract it twice, but I don't know if this works.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.14 13:16:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 14/05/2011 13:24:05
A Interon MkV can fit 4 MSE + hardener in the mid slots and will survive most suicide gank attempts and would easily have survived in this case vs a scourge drake.
If CONCORD won't help, low-sec or you need to avoid war targets use a Blockade runner.
ALWAYS fit the largest passive shield tank you can to haulers EVEN in high-sec.
I've never lost a hauler to high-sec suicide ganks and have escaped many attempts.
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HANZ BLIX
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Posted - 2011.05.14 14:00:00 -
[24]
Well to come on the forum for help must mean you've already dismissed the incredably obvios tank/agi/stab/cloak up with a T2 hauler preferably and/or stop being lazzy.
that leaves you with...
nuthing else. Sorry we can't help you.
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Ji'kahr
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard
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Posted - 2011.05.14 18:46:00 -
[25]
I think part of the secret here is to never, ever carry more than 100 million value in your T1 Indy's cargo.
What has been said about the Orca is true. The downside is, it takes several months to train for. Also, you have to train in mining skills that you may never use (Mining foreman to V, etc.) It's way easier to get a T2 hauler and/or a Freighter, or just use courier contracts.
If you are looking for revenge? One thing you might want to consider is Industrials for PvP. Apparently the Itty V is the best Industrial PvP out there. Look for the link on battleclinic. Essentially it means fitting a neut and a turret in the high slots, a scram, a web (or two), and cap boosters X2 in the mids, active reps in all the lows, and a cargo full of cap boosters and ammo. Trimark armour pumps X3 in the rig slots.
Find out where the pirates that ganked you hang out, get a few PvP buddies (or mercenaries ) and start flying around there in your new bait Itty V. When you see them, start pulling the 'wounded bird with a broken wing' act. It helps if you do this when you are close enough to the gate to jump through when aggressed. Since you are taking a lot longer to die than they planned, Concord should be able to take them down before they can gank you, For extra measure though, have your buddies camping on the gate in the other system, then have them jump through the gate to you or you to them.
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Ji'kahr
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard
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Posted - 2011.05.14 18:55:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dracko Malus So, I got popped in a 0.5 last night.. in my Fully 38m3 expanded Iteron V, shipping 3 Tech3 ships, and 5 Tech3 Subsystems. A total of 15.5m3 which could have been better shipped in a smaller, stronger vessel, I admit. I was lazy, and wanted a quick profit by hauling from Jita >.< cost me 781m.
What is the best thing to do to avoid this in the future? I understand I can start running an Occator, because it has a +2 to Warp strength guaranteeing my Warp with up to two jammers.
With how much +1 can a single Pilot jam me? Does the Occator need an Extra +1 Warp Stab, or can I just fit a Viator with 2 warp stabs and assume myself rather safe?
I'm not planning on flying in lower sec than 0.5, but if there is a certain threshold that will make me a bit more Immune to Gatecamps, I'd certainly not avoid lowsec. I like the thrill of the chase in case I get jumped/camped by large groups, and don't mind the occasional loss. But I'd like to stand a good chance.
Any tips?
I don't think warp stabs really make you safe, just safe-r. I know people who have had their ships pointed with five warp core stabs fitted. The Viator would be a much better bet than the Occator. Not only is it fast, but if you are cloaked you can NEVER be pointed because no one will ever see you.
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B0k Ch0i
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Posted - 2011.05.14 19:01:00 -
[27]
Fit a cloak
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B0k Ch0i
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Posted - 2011.05.14 19:03:00 -
[28]
Revenge?
Follow them around, flip their loot, blow it up.
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Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
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Posted - 2011.05.14 19:36:00 -
[29]
An Occator is worth the investment - fit with plates and resists they have a pretty monstrous tank and a healthy cargobay. Bear in mind, though, that ...
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they
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super
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sloooooow |
lordlulzs
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Posted - 2011.05.15 23:13:00 -
[30]
Lol Silly newbs
Screw stacking penalties
Cram as many interia stabs II in and low friction nozzle joint II's then evasve manev 5 and spaceship command 5.
enjoy..
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Rad Lalaxen
Death Incarnate INC
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Posted - 2011.05.16 19:34:00 -
[31]
I think it's worth pointing out, that fully expanded (35k m3) the Occator can still do the MWD-cloak trick. If you see a gank ship on gate before decloaking, just do the MWD-cloak and you are good to go.
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Kuranei
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Posted - 2011.05.17 05:58:00 -
[32]
I would go for a T2 transport, and aim for high resist. the higher your resist are the more ships it will take to pop you. Understand they are working against time, so the more resist/ehp you bring to the table the safer you are. Your are only 5-6 days away from flying a T2 transport if you are flying an Itty V, an investment that will pay forth greatly. They dont call blockade runners ghost for nothing. they are extremely hard to catch in 0.0 and nearly impossible in high sec. Just my opinion.
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Celia Therone
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Posted - 2011.05.17 09:56:00 -
[33]
Get a fast un-dock warp in Jita so that you wont be scanned on un-docking.
Fit a cloak and a microwarpdrive and use them to cut down on the time that you're scannable at each warp.
If they don't get to scan you the odds of them suiciding you go way down.
Pimp the ship to give it more tank/faster align. Nanofibers, warp core stabs, shield extenders/hardeners.
Train for an occator (if you have industry already then you're only minutes away from being able to fly one. They're slow though so make sure you do the cloak, mwd, shields thing to them too.
Even better use a viator (with a covert ops cloak), however you wont be able to fit as much in one.
Chances are you're also really close to flying an obelisk (freighter) so you could use that. In my experience no-one is going to suicide gank an obelisk in high sec for a lousy 800 mill.
Make a courier contract out of them and let someone else deal with the risk.
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rumncock
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Posted - 2011.05.17 10:10:00 -
[34]
It's called freighter or orca..
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Drykor
Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2011.05.17 11:37:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Drykor on 17/05/2011 11:36:44
Originally by: Gavin DeVries
4) Both the corporate hangar and the ship maintenance bay are not scannable by players (so they won't know what you have in there) and don't drop anything if you do blow up real good (so they don't get anything).
Didn't they change this in the last patch?
--- Drykor - AHARM |
Celia Therone
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Posted - 2011.05.17 12:27:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Drykor
Originally by: Gavin DeVries
4) Both the corporate hangar and the ship maintenance bay are not scannable by players (so they won't know what you have in there) and don't drop anything if you do blow up real good (so they don't get anything).
Didn't they change this in the last patch?
They changed it so that customs npcs could detect contraband in the corporate cargo hold. I don't know if players can now scan it too though.
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Dracko Malus
The D.A.W.N. Initiative
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Posted - 2011.06.17 05:50:00 -
[37]
Thanks a ton for the replies guys!
As I can already actually fly an Orca and Obelisk but find they are just simply too slow, (and currently not available to me due to their cost) I've now trained into a Viator with Cov Ops Cloak.
Originally by: lordlulzs Lol Silly newbs
Screw stacking penalties
Cram as many interia stabs II in and low friction nozzle joint II's then evasve manev 5 and spaceship command 5.
enjoy..
I've got Spaceship command at 5 and am just finishing training on Evasive Man 5. I must say the viator set up for cloaking and a speedy align time is absolutely amazing. I now set in warp almost as fast as a shuttle, have a higher warp speed and still have a reasonable cargohold. Great stuff! I might start running courier contracts in this thing for a living :)
Thanks again guys! I knew I was being stupid.. but forgot all about Tech2 Transporting..
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Mr Friendship Man
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Posted - 2011.06.27 21:14:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Mr Friendship Man on 27/06/2011 21:14:58
Originally by: Dracko Malus So, I got popped in a 0.5 last night.. in my Fully 38m3 expanded Iteron V, shipping 3 Tech3 ships, and 5 Tech3 Subsystems. A total of 15.5m3 which could have been better shipped in a smaller, stronger vessel, I admit. I was lazy, and wanted a quick profit by hauling from Jita >.< cost me 781m.
What is the best thing to do to avoid this in the future? I understand I can start running an Occator, because it has a +2 to Warp strength guaranteeing my Warp with up to two jammers.
With how much +1 can a single Pilot jam me? Does the Occator need an Extra +1 Warp Stab, or can I just fit a Viator with 2 warp stabs and assume myself rather safe?
I'm not planning on flying in lower sec than 0.5, but if there is a certain threshold that will make me a bit more Immune to Gatecamps, I'd certainly not avoid lowsec. I like the thrill of the chase in case I get jumped/camped by large groups, and don't mind the occasional loss. But I'd like to stand a good chance.
Any tips?
FILL YOUR MIDS! :D If you shield tank an itty 5 properly, no single ship (that is worth suiciding) can suicide you before concord blows them up.
Think ... 4x Med Extenders + Invuln and you're golden.
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LiSung
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Posted - 2011.06.27 22:18:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Rasz Lin 800 mil in paper thin iteron? confirming a good idea!
This. I've followed a few such ships after stealth scanning them myself, just waiting for them to get popped so I can steal some loot before the pirates get to the wreck. It's a surprisingly profitable diversion on the way to and from Jita.
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Theodoric Darkwind
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.28 07:16:00 -
[40]
Haul less at once, if its that valuable carry it in a blockade runner. A freighter is also much harder to gank (usually freighters dont reach gank appeal til they have a couple billion in the hold). DSTs aren't any safer, they will just use more ships to gank you.
There really isn't any way to avoid suicide gank alley (the line of .5 and .6 systems on the major trade routes i.e. sivala, uaedma, balle, nijara, hek, etc) the alternative routes are Rancer and Amamake
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Tosser Galore
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Posted - 2011.06.28 14:17:00 -
[41]
USE a scout.
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spaceman02
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Posted - 2011.06.30 00:33:00 -
[42]
Originally by: lordlulzs interia stabs II
Quote: signatureRadiusBonus Signature Radius Bonus +10 %
Not quite the best idea if you're trying to warp before you get locked. Nanofibers are what you want. |
grumpyguts1
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Posted - 2011.06.30 00:48:00 -
[43]
Just one comes to mind.... Shield extenders.. works on all ships. I am truly amazed at how many pilots carry expensive cargo without them... my lowleist alt that hauls the cheapest of goods has some meta 4's
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Apollo Gabriel
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2011.06.30 05:09:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Apollo Gabriel on 30/06/2011 05:12:28 A well fit indy can get around ~12 k EHP, which will survive many alpha. Your ship, as you know screamed GANK ME
really man, medium slots, use them. Carry extra modules with you, they don't take much space, and avoid Udema/Sivala
[Iteron Mark V, Maxed Out copy]
Improved Cloaking Device II Salvager I
Medium Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II
Damage Control II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II
Medium Cargohold Optimization I Medium Cargohold Optimization II Medium Cargohold Optimization II
15.3 k EHP if you forget your Invul field, but make sure you hit DC man
================================================== EVE DARK AGES - A new MT expansion for Eve online. |
Hax Zoidberg
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Posted - 2011.06.30 12:32:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Hax Zoidberg on 30/06/2011 12:33:13 ^ Much better to replace one of the medium shield extenders with a photon scattering field, particularly since EM is the favored ammo of suicide gankers. Also, unless you need the extra space, use reinforced bulkheads instead of expanded cargoholds.
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