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ceaon
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Posted - 2011.05.13 13:24:00 -
[1]
i just finished the setup for my old PC to make some money (bitcoins) my curent rate is so lol 34,1Mhash/s that acording to this calculator will take ****load of time to get some money lol http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php 223 days ....
how much can you hash per second whit your PC ?
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
If the whole country is corrupted then it's no longer corruption but culture.
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Hired Assasin
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.13 16:03:00 -
[2]
what?
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ceaon
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Posted - 2011.05.13 16:08:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Hired Assasin what?
wait you dint know that your PC can make money ?
this can you see a good n00b setup http://youtu.be/FThX1cDg-tg bitcoin can run headless linux dont need to install all the crap
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
If the whole country is corrupted then it's no longer corruption but culture.
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Ayieka
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Posted - 2011.05.13 21:17:00 -
[4]
What?
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Malaclypse Muscaria
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Posted - 2011.05.13 22:31:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Ayieka What?
Figuring out how to make moneys with the least possible amount of work involved. A time-honored tradition around these parts.
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0oO0oOoOo0o
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Posted - 2011.05.14 01:45:00 -
[6]
Is this some kind of pyramid scheme ??
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Doctor Deals
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Posted - 2011.05.14 09:19:00 -
[7]
OMGOMGOMG 666 Mark of the BEAST
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ceaon
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Posted - 2011.05.14 09:22:00 -
[8]
Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o Is this some kind of pyramid scheme ??
impossible
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
If the whole country is corrupted then it's no longer corruption but culture.
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Scorpyn
Caldari Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2011.05.14 12:10:00 -
[9]
Is electricity free where you live?
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.05.14 13:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Scorpyn Is electricity free where you live?
Wait....what? Uhhh..oh. Ooooooh.
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ceaon
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Posted - 2011.05.14 13:51:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Scorpyn Is electricity free where you live?
i will have to make the numbers, atm i test whit the ati 5850 ~260Mhash/s for the deepbit pool i will come back in here after 1 h of working +1h for the update and i post the income
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
If the whole country is corrupted then it's no longer corruption but culture.
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0oO0oOoOo0o
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Posted - 2011.05.14 17:40:00 -
[12]
I don't get this. You say you are making "money" out of thin air ? Or are you stealing it from someone else ? If you can generate it from nothing and others pay real dollars for it, that's same like buying EVE online ISK for RL money. Except that they can't grief others in an internet spaceship game with that e-money. And what if no one pays you anything back for that bitcoins ? Is it safeguarded in gold or anything real that is not only virtual ? Or can someone be sued ?
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Kronir
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Posted - 2011.05.14 17:52:00 -
[13]
Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o I don't get this. You say you are making "money" out of thin air ?
Same principle as the central banks. Money from nothing.
And no money is backed by gold nowadays except for gold itself.
Bitcoin maybe worth it if you have the processing power for it.
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ceaon
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Posted - 2011.05.14 18:49:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kronir Bitcoin maybe worth it if you have the processing power for it.
yes bitcoins are backed by the processing power that make the calculations
*also bitcoins have no real inflation there is a limited amount of bitcoins produced and a limited amount of bitcoins that will ever be produced *max bitcoins released per day is 300 if more "bitcoins priters" join the network the difficulty increases *max bitcoins ever produced 21 000 0000 but bitoins accept 8 decimals not 2 like euro or dollar
**current difficulty http://blockexplorer.com/q/getdifficulty and ofc graphs
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
If the whole country is corrupted then it's no longer corruption but culture.
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Something Random
Gallente The Barrow Boys
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Posted - 2011.05.15 14:44:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
Originally by: Scorpyn Is electricity free where you live?
Wait....what? Uhhh..oh. Ooooooh.
Dont you just love it when Logic flaws enthusiasm.
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Aint that right? |
ceaon
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Posted - 2011.05.24 09:05:00 -
[16]
this is so ****ing awesome http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5f_e4P6gMA all that rigs mining BTC
it also have some problem whit privacy seams le police look at electricity bills to see who grow ********* and because BTC rings eat allot of power USA ppl can get le police on their house whit a search warrant http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/are-smart-meters-real-time-surveillance-spies
Quote: "We thought it was a major grow operation ... but this guy had some kind of business involving computers. I don't know how many computer servers we found in his home."
vs nyan cat pH
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Cpt Syrinx
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Posted - 2011.05.24 09:41:00 -
[17]
So wait, where does the value come from? These numbers you are crunching, they are useful for something I hope?
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ceaon
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Posted - 2011.05.24 11:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Cpt Syrinx they are useful for something I hope?
yes if you trade them for goods and services you dont pay any taxes because the currency is anonymous is hard to link BTC address to real ppl because you can have hundreds of this address to move your own BTC vs nyan cat pH
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.24 14:07:00 -
[19]
The short version of all of this is that "bitcoin" is for most practical purposes as good as cash, but cash that can be sent electronically by (almost) anybody with an internet connection to (almost) anybody else with an internet connection, with both anonymity and transaction security being reasonably high. The "crypto-currency" can be lost, stolen or even DESTROYED, just like regular cash... just not physically, but electronically. Anybody that gains access to your "e-wallet" can steal your stuff (the e-wallet is basically just a collection of 100x single-use "authentication tokens" for any transaction, new ones are constantly generated while you're online and linked to the network to replace the ones you just used)... if you lose your e-wallet files, you also lose your stuff... if you back up your e-wallet and don't keep it synched, you will lose a portion of your cash... if you store your e-wallet online, there's no guarantee it will be secure... if you deposit your bitcoin in an "e-bank", you're basically trusting a 3rd party to not steal your e-money.
This "cash" is not backed by any government, instead is backed by already-applied computing power, but not at a steady rate (the more of this "bitcoin" cash is around, the harder it should theoretically be to make new ones by "mining"). Exchange rates are set like any other currency, by supply and demand. This could mean that at times, equipment wear and tear plus electricity cost could indeed be higher than the value of "bitcoins" you are "mining". But other times, it could yield serious profits. It's all about supply and demand, afterall.
Last thing, it's not like this currency has gained a lot of support/usage yet. You'll probably be hard-pressed to find too many places where you can use it. Also, just like cash payments, there is very little record of who actually gave money to whom, and there are no chargebacks. And finally, if there is no internet, there's no crypto-currency. You can't prove you have it without access to the network of miners and wallets and whatnot else constitutes the distributed network that handles BitCoin "ownership".
Bottom line, there are advantages and disadvantages. Both to bitcoin ownership and bitcoin mining. Only you can decide whether any of those two things are "worth it" to you. To me, personally, neither seems worthy enough to bother with. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Cpt Syrinx
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Posted - 2011.05.24 15:36:00 -
[20]
Originally by: ceaon
Originally by: Cpt Syrinx they are useful for something I hope?
yes if you trade them for goods and services you dont pay any taxes because the currency is anonymous is hard to link BTC address to real ppl because you can have hundreds of this address to move your own BTC
I understand that the numbercrunching has a role in the currency generation part of the thing, what I am wondering is WHAT your computer is calculating while 'mining' these tokens. Surely something useful is being computed to give these tokens value? Otherwise I dont see the difference with printing new dollar bills without a value base...
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.24 16:02:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Cpt Syrinx Surely something useful is being computed to give these tokens value?
Not really.
Quote: Otherwise I dont see the difference with printing new dollar bills without a value base...
The "value" is not linked to the economic power of any country, and you can send it electronically and (almost) anonymously. But other than that, it's pretty much the same thing, yeah. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Cpt Syrinx
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Posted - 2011.05.24 16:31:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Cpt Syrinx on 24/05/2011 16:32:26
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Cpt Syrinx Surely something useful is being computed to give these tokens value?
Not really.
Quote: Otherwise I dont see the difference with printing new dollar bills without a value base...
The "value" is not linked to the economic power of any country, and you can send it electronically and (almost) anonymously. But other than that, it's pretty much the same thing, yeah.
I am probably not getting the economic intricacies of having a currency with no actual value, but then why would ANYONE exchange these things for 'normal' currencies, or anything of value really, since the tokens apparently represent nothing other than time spent by a computer stressing itself with no actual purpose but to convert power into heat and these tokens... Or is that the basis for their value? Power spent and hardware investment? Is the power of 'people doing economy' that strong, to cause such deflation already in its relatively short existence?
edit: And would it last?
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Cornwalace
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Posted - 2011.05.24 17:01:00 -
[23]
This is what I understand.
New money type that isn't backed by a government that needs computers to actually be worth something, depending on if people use it
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.24 17:47:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Akita T on 24/05/2011 17:54:36
Originally by: Cornwalace This is what I understand. New money type that isn't backed by a government that needs computers to actually be worth something, depending on if people use it
Pretty much that, yes.
Originally by: Cpt Syrinx I am probably not getting the economic intricacies of having a currency with no actual value, but then why would ANYONE exchange these things for 'normal' currencies, or anything of value really, since the tokens apparently represent nothing other than time spent by a computer stressing itself with no actual purpose but to convert power into heat and these tokens.
None of the currencies in circulation right now have much or ANY intrinsic value whatsoever nowadays to begin with anyway, so there's not much of a difference.
Quote: Or is that the basis for their value? Power spent and hardware investment? Is the power of 'people doing economy' that strong, to cause such deflation already in its relatively short existence? edit: And would it last?
The whole point is to have a soft-capped amount of extremely hard (hopefully next to impossible) to counterfit, fungible, easily divisible and (mostly anonymously) easily exchangeable online currency. Its value will directly be dictated by supply and demand, and could oscillate between next to worthless up to incredibly valuable, all depending on how many people adopt it, and on whether any "security holes" can be poked into the system or not.
As to whether it will last or not... hmm, who knows ? Personally, what I don't like is that the method of "generation" is useless for any other purposes that just generating it. Then again, pretty much the same thing can be said about any real-life currency.
I'm not hoping for much from this particular currency, but it's at least an interesting experiment. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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ceaon
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Posted - 2011.05.24 18:14:00 -
[25]
Edited by: ceaon on 24/05/2011 18:24:43 Edited by: ceaon on 24/05/2011 18:15:16
Originally by: Cpt Syrinx
Originally by: ceaon
Originally by: Cpt Syrinx they are useful for something I hope?
yes if you trade them for goods and services you dont pay any taxes because the currency is anonymous is hard to link BTC address to real ppl because you can have hundreds of this address to move your own BTC
I understand that the numbercrunching has a role in the currency generation part of the thing, what I am wondering is WHAT your computer is calculating while 'mining' these tokens. Surely something useful is being computed to give these tokens value? Otherwise I dont see the difference with printing new dollar bills without a value base...
oh boy this is hard to explain it all go to prime numbers and how the crypt behind credit card works primer numbers 7 31 21 101 why this work ? because there is no formula for predicting a prime number other that making a test case by case how credit card works it take 2 long ass prime numbers at multiply them to get a long ass 128bit number there is no way to predict them other that testing number by number
dont take my work for granted i dint check le source code and read all the documentation
bitcoin use sha 256 crypto how the bitcoin work there was a mom block or genesis block and for this example the block will have 1 number 7 now the network compete to discover the second block based on that block that haz to be other prime number and some node on the network make 7x3=21 and bingo that node haz discovered a new prime number and created the block number 2 now all the nodes from the network "check" the block number 2 and say yes 7x3=21 and is a prime number the reward for 1 discovered block is 50 btc today in 2012 will be 25 stuff dont work so simple now because there is a difficulty level that increase overtime so cap the amount of bitcoin produced each day that last difficulty jump was by 55% and the prime number must start whit a X amount of 0(zero) to create a new block and reward yourself whit BTC
for more stuff take a look here http://blockexplorer.com/q
Originally by: Cpt Syrinx
Or is that the basis for their value? Power spent and hardware investment? Is the power of 'people doing economy' that strong, to cause such deflation already in its relatively short existence?
edit: And would it last?
GTC is like gold a finite amount of BTC can be "made" there will be only 21 000 000 BTC ever created when the number is reached it stops you cant mine any more BTC the only thing you can make is earn transaction fees by validating transactions according to the story BTC gained 500% more value VS dollar since release check this site for stats http://bitcoinwatch.com/ vs nyan cat pH
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.24 18:23:00 -
[26]
That's not what he asked. He asked if the calculations themselves are useful for anything else except just generating bitcoins. And they're not. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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ceaon
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Posted - 2011.05.24 18:27:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Akita T That's not what he asked. He asked if the calculations themselves are useful for anything else except just generating bitcoins. And they're not.
Quote: now all the nodes from the network "check" the block number 2 and say yes 7x3=21 and is a prime number
Quote: when the number is reached it stops you cant mine any more BTC the only thing you can make is earn transaction fees by validating transactions
vs nyan cat pH
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.24 18:35:00 -
[28]
You still don't get what he's asking and what I answered, I see.
Here's a different phrasing Linkage
"Why can't it be doing something useful for humanity instead?
SHA-256 hashing has very specific properties that we need. In particular, it generates (with predictable CPU required) numbers that are for all practical purposes purely random, but in a way that is easily verifiable. There are no known "beneficial" calculations that could replace this. This CPU time and electricity is not entirely wasted, though: it helps protect the network from attack."
Basically, the calculations needed to generate bitcoins are useful just for generating (and maintaining the security) of bitcoins, WITH NO OTHER practical applications whatsoever.
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2011.05.24 19:56:00 -
[29]
How is this not a kind of a pyramid scheme?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.24 20:59:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lindsay Logan How is this not a kind of a pyramid scheme?
How is this anything like a pyramid scheme, in a way regular RL currency isn't too ?
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Cpt Syrinx
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Posted - 2011.05.24 21:02:00 -
[31]
Akita is right ceaon, the details of what it does was not what I meant, but its now clear to me that the number crunching it does is involved in securing the tokens themselves.
So as I understand it, it is indeed converting 'rl' energy in a novel currency, which in turn can potentially be converted back into 'rl' by form of goods and services and whatnot, without some observed pitfalls of modern monetary economy.
Fair enough.
Personally, its not something I'd invest power and hardware in. I am having trouble with the expectation that this value overhead over the effort involved in generation will persist...
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.24 21:19:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Akita T on 24/05/2011 21:23:02
From what I understand, the network auto-adjusts the difficulty quite often so that on average about 50 bitcoins are generated every 10 minutes in total across the entire network. The more "miners" exist, the harder it is to get new bitcoins, since you can't (noticeably) increase the worldwide rate of bitcoin generation. It's hardware power PvP with a sliver of luck _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.05.24 23:28:00 -
[33]
So am I supposed to put that khash/s number into that calculator? Trying to figure out how to figure out how much this **** is generating.
I'm sitting at ~400khash/s atm, which is supposedly like $300 a month, but I seriously doubt that's right. - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.25 00:44:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Barakkus I'm sitting at ~400khash/s atm, which is supposedly like $300 a month, but I seriously doubt that's right.
Are you sure you're not entering kilohash per second in a field where you should enter megahash per second, and therefore get an estimate that's 1k times larger than it should be ? Because at 400 khash/second = 0.4 MHash/sec and ~7 USD/BTC, at the (more or less) current difficulty rating, you're going to earn at most 35 cents per month on average (but actually incur a lot more in electricity costs), according to this. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.25 01:21:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Cpt Syrinx
I am probably not getting the economic intricacies of having a currency with no actual value,..
Indeed you don¦t. I suggest you google "Money as Debt" and watch that to understand what you current monetary belief system is actually based upon.
Quote: edit: And would it last?
I guess about as long as that dollar/euro you¦re slaving your life away to get.
______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.05.25 02:38:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Akita T unlikely, it's almost tripled in the last 50 days
That's probably due to press and people jumping on it thinking it's free money. I got in the car when my wife picked me up and NPR (national public radio in the US) had a brief story on it. I lol'd. - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring |
Cpt Syrinx
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Posted - 2011.05.25 09:38:00 -
[37]
Originally by: ivar R'dhak
Originally by: Cpt Syrinx
I am probably not getting the economic intricacies of having a currency with no actual value,..
Indeed you don¦t. I suggest you google "Money as Debt" and watch that to understand what you current monetary belief system is actually based upon.
Quote: edit: And would it last?
I guess about as long as that dollar/euro you¦re slaving your life away to get.
oh my
and you speak to your mother with that brain? |
ceaon
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Posted - 2011.05.25 12:01:00 -
[38]
yes ATI is better that NV cards because it haz more ALU nvidia haz a higher frequency and a lower number of ALU https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_Hardware_Comparison
also check this pic http://i.imgur.com/VhgVh.gif vs nyan cat pH
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Kara Sharalien
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.05.25 13:37:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Lindsay Logan How is this not a kind of a pyramid scheme?
I don't really see how this is in any way a pyramid scheme. In a pyramid scheme, money filters upwards by a process of unending recruitment, so that those at the top receive lots of money, but the construct eventually runs out of new recruits and collapses, with those at the bottom receiving less returns then they paid to join, as it were.
The bitcoin system seems to be based on a horizontal plane, where the generation of coins is based on the computational power you apply to it, with no person having an inherent advantage over another. Competition will cause those with insufficient computational power on their side to lose money rather then gain it, but this still occurs on a horizontal plane, and the existence of a thousand small players reduces the income of a large player (compare a pyramid scheme, where a large player profits in the same circumstances).
This is not to say I am convinced yet that it is a stable or useful form of currency, but I really don't see how you can call it a pyramid scheme without drawing a very long bow on the nature of currency.
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Wilhelm Riley
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Posted - 2011.05.25 14:17:00 -
[40]
I don't think I would have understood any of this were Akita not here.
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ceaon
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Posted - 2011.05.25 23:41:00 -
[41]
i did get interested to see the total network power
Network total:3,813 Thash/s you need ~6 teraflops to get 1Ghash/s you can make the numbers :) vs nyan cat pH
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Brujo Loco
Amarr Brujeria Teologica
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Posted - 2011.05.26 01:38:00 -
[42]
The system sounds great, but I think I see a trend here. If this money can be converted from E-Currency to RL Currency into prepaid debit cards for example, it would explain the HUGE SPIKE in Prepaid Debit Card smuggling happening right now into Panama, there must be way to WASH money using this system somehow.
Panama is the only country I have seen that besides the regular Airport drug busts, they bust people that have swallowed MONEY. It's usual to find people smuggling US Bills into the country Southbound to Colombia. Lately drug traffickers have begun giving people stacks of pre-paid debit cards instead of making them swallow money
Just wondering with my /tinfoil hat about the exploits these systems can cause. <bored> --- Viva VENEZUELA!!! Archipelago Theory
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ceaon
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Posted - 2011.05.26 18:33:00 -
[43]
MtGox intl plan to offer margin trading and options
Quote: In the coming months we'll use the new backend to (finally) implement options, margin trading, and various other things we've been missing.
link http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9808.0 internets moneys is serious business vs nyan cat pH
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Malaclypse Muscaria
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Posted - 2011.05.26 19:12:00 -
[44]
If you happen to live in North America, be careful about getting too hardcore with mining them bitcoins: the cops may turn suspicious of you eating up so much electricity, and show up one day knocking on your door presuming you've got an indoor pot-growing operation going on.
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ceaon
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Posted - 2011.05.27 07:27:00 -
[45]
difficulty just got at 434882.72175 a 78% increase vs nyan cat pH
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.27 10:20:00 -
[46]
I guess the gold rush is more or less over. Now you need to really dedicate lots of hardware to really get any coins. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.10 00:12:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Akita T on 10/06/2011 00:13:17
Originally by: ceaon difficulty just got at 434882 a 78% increase
567358 now, hah. Also, bitcoin current traded value is over 28$. Can you say "hyperdeflation" ? Or, maybe, "bubble" ? _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2011.06.10 13:48:00 -
[48]
BitCoins ... Theoretical limit is what, 30 million coins and no more? People are using them as money, and their value in physical currency is increasing, or has been last I looked. Of course the cost in physical currency terms to generate them and use them is also increasing.
But, how long till someone else comes up with ByteCoyns or some other such new currency? Although the monetary base for these systems are limited, the number of monetary bases is unlimited.
Sooner or later there will be a mish mash of all this Cryptographic money and the overall values will become diluted. BitCoins may stay on top of the pile as the older and more accepted currency, but sooner or later all monopolies in unregulated markets are taken down.
Also, as these new currencies evolve, and dilute one another, physical monetary bases are increasing, and real wealth is being siphoned off due to inflation. The cost to generate, much less use all the crypto money is increasing.
BitCoins are a nice experiment in debt free fixed base system, but the environment in which they operate will out pace the experiment sooner or later.
The Real Space Initiative - V7
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Caldari Citizen20090217
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Posted - 2011.06.10 14:41:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Caldari Citizen20090217 on 10/06/2011 14:41:27 OK so you download the software etc, run your massive repurposed renderfarm to spam bitcoins, and end up with a pile of egold. How do you convert those to another currency?
edit: typing fail
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Zagam
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Posted - 2011.06.10 14:41:00 -
[50]
A good rule to follow:
If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. ---------.oOo.---------- Chaos, Madness, and Destruction. My work here is done. |
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group
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Posted - 2011.06.10 17:22:00 -
[51]
I think the problem here is understanding how a currency can work when not attached to a limited hard commodity.
Indeed state currencies, not backed by gold and silver, are indeed devalued and worthless and no civilisation that used fiat money ever survived.
But gold and silver itself lacks intrinsic value. Commodities never lose value, but metals-backed currency over time becomes an acceptable exchange medium for these commodities.
Lacking in the metals, the commodities themselves actually become currency. In colonial America, lacking a mining base and having to rely on scarce foreign coin of gold and silver, tobacco and whiskey were used as currency quite often (one of the factors behind the Whiskey Rebellion, by the way).
Governments, in order to pay for their welfare and warfare states, print money with printing presses, causing inflation and devaluing the money itself. 80 years ago one ounce of gold was $20 US, but it's now hovering around $1500 and the dollar is nearly worthless. The dollar was disconnected from the gold backing in 1971 when Richard Nixon said "we are all Keynesians now".
Bitcoins appear to be way out of alignment with the concepts of currency. I think what is hard to wrap the mind around is, what is being produced (what commidity of value or value added action) in the creation of a bitcoin beyond the creation of a bitcoin? Bitcoins appear to be a construct, like ISK, that never had any commidity over which is became an acceptable forme of exchange, and they are not apparently backed by anything.
It would seem too good to be true, and the global derivatives bubble that has put the world into quadrillions in debt was based on "base desires" and "greater fools" theories: invest your money or buy that real estate and it will simply grow in value for no reason while you sit on your ass and some greater fool will pay more for it later.
There has to be a tarp in this scheme.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2011.06.10 17:51:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Akita T Or, maybe, "bubble" ?
Yes, this seems entirely plausible. I would definitely not want to buy right now if I was planning to hold for several years.
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs I guess the gold rush is more or less over. Now you need to really dedicate lots of hardware to really get any coins.
You can join a collective that shares out the proceeds when any individual member solves a block. The returns should be roughly constant.
Originally by: Adunh Slavy BitCoins ... Theoretical limit is what, 30 million coins and no more?
The minimum tradable unit is 1 Satoshi. There are 100,000,000 Satoshi to the bitcoin. That takes care of the granularity issue.
Quote:
But, how long till someone else comes up with ByteCoyns or some other such new currency? Although the monetary base for these systems are limited, the number of monetary bases is unlimited.
Sooner or later there will be a mish mash of all this Cryptographic money and the overall values will become diluted. BitCoins may stay on top of the pile as the older and more accepted currency, but sooner or later all monopolies in unregulated markets are taken down.
All someone has to do is design a better digital currency. In a similar vein, all someone has to do to beat Google is design a better search engine. I don't see any easy, consequence-free way of shutting down bitcoin, due to the minimal amount of central control it requires (one irc channel as a 'meeting place' for clients to swap transaction details).
Quote: BitCoins are a nice experiment in debt free fixed base system, but the environment in which they operate will out pace the experiment sooner or later.
How, exactly? I suppose we'll eventually reach the point where the difficulty per block can't be raised any further, but by then all the currency ever in circulation will already have been issued, and people will be mining for transaction processing fees instead.
Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217
OK so you download the software etc, run your massive repurposed renderfarm to spam bitcoins, and end up with a pile of egold. How do you convert those to another currency?
Someone pays you to transfer it to them. There are already several exchange websites that allow people to trade bitcoin for other currencies, and a more limited number of sellers who accept them directly as payment for goods and services. --- 34.4:1 mineral compression |
Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2011.06.10 19:19:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 10/06/2011 19:26:07
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
The minimum tradable unit is 1 Satoshi. There are 100,000,000 Satoshi to the bitcoin. That takes care of the granularity issue.
Pointing out that there is a limit to the monetary base was simply that, not a concern with regards to granularity. That limit is part of BitCoin 'appeal' to many. That appeal is an illusion.
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
All someone has to do is design a better digital currency. In a similar vein, all someone has to do to beat Google is design a better search engine. I don't see any easy, consequence-free way of shutting down bitcoin, due to the minimal amount of central control it requires (one irc channel as a 'meeting place' for clients to swap transaction details).
If BitCoin has an impact and looks successful, someone else will come along and Make BitCoins2, 3, 4, n.
When this begins to happen, there will be additional competition to the currency. What remains to be seen, even with BitCoins as the first, is how widely they are adopted and held, and if so, how long can that position be held just by BitCoins. If these various currencies become widely accepted and can maintain real value, then one eventually becomes no better than the other.
These Crypto monies are perfect substitutes. So, although the base for each may be fixed, there is no limit on how many bases can exist. Those which are most widely held, easily exchanged and promoted will have the most value. BitCoins ultimate value will rest on how popular they are compared to another product that is identical. I'm not sure about you, but I haven't seen too many paper clip monopolies around.
I would not be surprised to see someone down the road attempt regulation and subsequent capture of that regulation in attempts to promote one version of this over another.
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
How, exactly? I suppose we'll eventually reach the point where the difficulty per block can't be raised any further, but by then all the currency ever in circulation will already have been issued, and people will be mining for transaction processing fees instead.
Someone will come up with another kind of Crypto money as I described above.
The Real Space Initiative - V7
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2011.06.10 20:14:00 -
[54]
If and when someone does make a better currency than bitcoin, I doubt it will take off overnight and instantly displace bitcoin, any faster than bitcoin itself has displaced physical currency. The common knowledge that a decent share of people are using a particular currency is probably going to be enough to keep most of the newcomers at bay - and again, the search engine analogy is a fairly good one. --- 34.4:1 mineral compression |
Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2011.06.10 21:27:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 10/06/2011 21:27:36 It doesn't have to be "better" it just has to be the same or at least no worse. What matters is how widely held and used one will be over another. An electronic currency, in this day and age has potential to go anyplace in the world instantly. BitCoin adoption rate has been impressive. It won't take much for another one.
As for the analogy, like all analogies they have faults. If the hardware requirements, the capital, employees, etc are a good analogy to a peer to peer environment, with software that can be created by one person, we'll just have to differ. I'll stick with the paper clips.
The Real Space Initiative - V7
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Creepy Goat
Collateral.
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Posted - 2011.06.10 21:57:00 -
[56]
This is excellent for money laundering.
Anything else, useless. ----
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Kirja
R.U.S.H Red Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.10 22:01:00 -
[57]
The idea behind bitcoint is interesting both from technical and economical point of view. As long as project keeps relativly low profile it may last but the moment there will any significant amount of real money involved bitcoint will be banned and bitcoint traders prosecuted by US which will followed by many others. Uncontrollable currency is bad for goverments in so many ways that i dont even know where to start - money laundering, terrorism, tax evasion, damaging ability of central banks to perform monetary policy just to name a few.
Anyway, bitcoint is an excellent case-study of "greater fool theory". Anyone doing a uni thesis soon and dont know what to write about?
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2011.06.11 11:40:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Adunh Slavy It doesn't have to be "better" it just has to be the same or at least no worse.
I disagree. Suppose you're someone looking to trade using an electronic currency. Your available options are bitcoin, which at this point is fairly well established and is used by ~100% of participants in your marketplace of choice, or a clone of bitcoin that's just been launched and is only used by a handful of people. The new currency does not give you access to any worthwhile share of the market that you can't already reach via bitcoin.
Let's say that at this point in time bitcoin is selling for a reliable $10 per coin. Conversly, it's so hard to find anyone who'll accept the clone that you have no idea what it's worth, if anything. Given this choice, why would any rational, self-interested person pick the latter option? Even if the new currency was better in some significant way it would be hard for it to reach 'critical mass'.
I have yet to hear any major complaints about bitcoin from people who actually use it, or suggestions for improving it that can't be incorporated into bitcoin itself - one can already do some quite interesting things with Bitcoin. --- 34.4:1 mineral compression |
Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2011.06.11 14:17:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 11/06/2011 14:27:39
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
I disagree. Suppose you're someone looking to trade using an electronic currency. Your available options are bitcoin, which at this point is fairly well established and is used by ~100% of participants in your marketplace of choice, or a clone of bitcoin that's just been launched and is only used by a handful of people. The new currency does not give you access to any worthwhile share of the market that you can't already reach via bitcoin.
Which is why I said this, "What matters is how widely held and used one will be over another."
Now you wanted to use google as an example. Let's use something else more applicable - Sharing Links. How about twitter, Facebook, etc. Once upon a time, not too long ago, if you wanted to share a link, you only had a few choices. Now if you want to share a link, you click the gizmo and get a hundred choices, no longer just Twiter or Facebook, but all kinds of things, hundreds of them. Adding a new crypto currency isn't going to be much trouble. Instead of just accepting bit coins, a vendor can accept any thing. So long as they get a B to B link to some exchange keeping track of exchange rates, they can modify prices on the fly. Just get the XML feed for the exchange and poof.
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Given this choice, why would any rational, self-interested person pick the latter option?
I'll give you a great reason - Cause it's worth something.
Let's suppose we have a glass box, and inside the glass box is a pile of gold. We can't touch the gold, but you and I agree that 10 pieces of blue paper are worth all the gold in the box.
On the other side of the room are two people that decide their red paper, all 10 pieces of it, are worth all the gold in the same box. Let's add another group, some people with 10 pieces of green paper.
Now you choose to accept only blue paper, but one of the people with red paper wants to make a deal with me. At first this seems dubious, but I notice that the other guy with red paper has something I want. So I agree to transfer the red paper for my serivices, and now go trade the red paper for the other red guy's services. I am now richer than you. I don't have any more blue paper, but I was able to trade something you refused to accept. I also increased my potential customer base.
Now the green guys over there noticed I was willing to accept red paper, so they trade some green with the red. I notice the greens doing this and offer to trade them some blue for green, cause I can use that to buy services from red. So while we're all trading with each other, you're sitting there waiting on some blue. You may get some sooner or later from the red guys or the green guys, or you can also choose to accept green and red as claims on the gold in the glass box. If you don't, I'll get their business, and you won't. Of course all the while I'll still be getting the blue business.
How much gold is the blue paper now worth? The green, the red? How about when the purple, the plaid and the polka-dot?
The gold in the box is all the wealth and labor in the world. As more claims are made upon the box, the less each claim will be worth.
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
I have yet to hear any major complaints about bitcoin from people who actually use it, or suggestions for improving it that can't be incorporated into bitcoin itself - one can already do some quite interesting things with Bitcoin.
I don't disagree with the idea of BitCoins, I think it's a very interesting idea, I like it's decentralized nature. What I am pointing out is that people should be cautious in thinking that its limited monetary base is actually as limited as it appears. The brand "BitCoins" is limited, the proliferation of potential crytographic monies is unlimited.
The Real Space Initiative - V7
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Dyner
Minmatar Midgard Protectorate
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Posted - 2011.06.11 16:21:00 -
[60]
To me this looks like owning some ultra-rare Baseball Cards. You trade that baseball card for cash. New owner does the same...eventually though no one is going to want to trade cash for that baseball card; whole thing collapses.
How about instead of figuring out new ways of making 'Money' we figure out WE-DO-NOT-NEED-MONEY. No one seems to want to do anything just because it would better the species...nooooo, gotta have my money ---------------- "Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall." - Confucius |
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.12 21:59:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Akita T on 12/06/2011 22:09:33
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 10/06/2011 00:13:17 [...]Also, bitcoin current traded value is over 28$. [...] maybe, "bubble" ?
And it's down to barely over 20$ now in just 3 days
http://twitter.com/#!/bitcoineconomy
P.S. TINFOILHAT TIME ! It's a conspiracy by ATI to sell more video cards !
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Dirk Decibel
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Posted - 2011.06.13 12:01:00 -
[62]
How does one even create bitcoins?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.13 15:54:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Dirk Decibel How does one even create bitcoins?
You "mine" for them, preferably using your GPU. If you want to know how, one starts by following at least one of the zillion relevant links posted in this thread. Or by googling "bitcoin mining". _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Kalle Demos
Amarr Helix Protocol
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Posted - 2011.06.13 16:50:00 -
[64]
I didnt actually click any links because there was too many and one was a fake youtube link (guess you have a keylogger now).
Still dont get any of this, so basically by using the internet a person can make money but it isnt legal? You mean like botting and RMT? .
LETS POST ON CAOD GANG! |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.13 17:05:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Kalle Demos I didnt actually click any links because there was too many and one was a fake youtube link (guess you have a keylogger now).
If you're referring to any "youtu.be" links, that's a google feature, not a highjack attempt. Try to keep up with the news, it's one year and a half old.
Quote: Still dont get any of this, so basically by using the internet a person can make money but it isnt legal? You mean like botting and RMT?
You got it partially right and a lot wrong. For starters, it's quite legal. At least for now, and in most of the world. If anything should change, you should be able to hear about it. Then again, you weren't aware of youtu.be either so... meh. And you don't get "money" in the sense of "real-life government-backed fiat currency" - you get Bitcoins (BTC), which is a politically and geographically agnostic internet-only crypto-currency with a reasonably decent potential for anonymity. If you choose to exchange BTC for any RL currency, you can only do so if you find somebody willing to do the reverse direction exchange with you, and you can use one of the trading sites to find them, and agree on some RL money transfer method while the site holds the BTC in "escrow". _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Kalle Demos
Amarr Helix Protocol
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Posted - 2011.06.13 17:47:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Kalle Demos I didnt actually click any links because there was too many and one was a fake youtube link (guess you have a keylogger now).
If you're referring to any "youtu.be" links, that's a google feature, not a highjack attempt. Try to keep up with the news, it's one year and a half old.
Quote: Still dont get any of this, so basically by using the internet a person can make money but it isnt legal? You mean like botting and RMT?
You got it partially right and a lot wrong. For starters, it's quite legal. At least for now, and in most of the world. If anything should change, you should be able to hear about it. Then again, you weren't aware of youtu.be either so... meh. And you don't get "money" in the sense of "real-life government-backed fiat currency" - you get Bitcoins (BTC), which is a politically and geographically agnostic internet-only crypto-currency with a reasonably decent potential for anonymity. If you choose to exchange BTC for any RL currency, you can only do so if you find somebody willing to do the reverse direction exchange with you, and you can use one of the trading sites to find them, and agree on some RL money transfer method while the site holds the BTC in "escrow".
I live in a cave, all my RL news comes from yahoo and most of the articles get repeated every year.
Wouldnt it just be easier to RMT in games than do this bitcoin thingy
I did actually hear something about this on yahoo a week ago or so, never really got moist by it .
LETS POST ON CAOD GANG! |
Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2011.06.13 18:21:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Kalle Demos
I live in a cave, all my RL news comes from yahoo and most of the articles get repeated every year.
Search sites have become advertisement funnels. They are notorious for directing topics they think you are interested in to you and keeping you in your own little self created informational prison. Break free!
Originally by: Kalle Demos
Wouldnt it just be easier to RMT in games than do this bitcoin thingy
EULAs
The Real Space Initiative - V7
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.13 22:24:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Kalle Demos Wouldnt it just be easier to RMT in games than do this bitcoin thingy
Well, for starters, bitcoin mining is a hands-off process once set up and left running, AFAIK breaks no laws yet (not directly anyway, but some users might be technically violating tax laws by not paying any income taxes, so the laws might adapt if the currency becomes popular enough to be more than a curiosity) and is not against any EULAs (so you don't risk banning, the way RMT would). Then there's that whole no mandatory transaction fees business, relative quickness of fund transfers even at no priority fees, the high granularity (you can pay as little as 0.00000001 BTC if you want, which at current exchange rates would come up as barely 0.00002 cents of an US dollar) and the fact if done right at all steps, grants pretty decent anonymity (so, nothing anybody could really know how to tax). _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Kavu
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.14 01:35:00 -
[69]
I live in government housing, and therefore dont pay for electricity.. exploit? hax?, lol
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2011.06.14 03:01:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Kavu I live in government housing, and therefore dont pay for electricity.. exploit? hax?, lol
These days, as government attempts to give away 'free' things, you end up paying for it with devalued currency.
The Real Space Initiative - V7
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Alain Kinsella
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.14 05:53:00 -
[71]
I've known about this BTC thing for a few weeks now. Went though something like this many years ago with SETI@Home (before the BOINC client existed) and just not interested in it now.
Besides, if I'm going to 'invest' outside of fiat-land then I prefer 'hard' currencies like Silver coins. Of course, I make my own colloidal silver so I admit to having a practical side to owning those.
Originally by: Akita T . . .AFAIK breaks no laws yet (not directly anyway, but some users might be technically violating tax laws by not paying any income taxes, so the laws might adapt if the currency becomes popular enough to be more than a curiosity) and is not against any EULAs (so you don't risk banning, the way RMT would).
Governments are being glacial enough with various game currencies (so much so that some of the more successful SL earners voluntarily declare it on taxes to be safe), so I doubt the BTC will be 'fixed' anytime soon. They're more likely to attempt to undermine its value in some way - one quick announcement by Bernake would probably do it, but there's other ways.
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2011.06.14 06:19:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Alain Kinsella ... one quick announcement by Bernake would probably do it ...
Maybe, The Bernake's attempts at moral suasion of late haven't been exactly stabilizing. The Bernake opens his mouth and gold goes up $20, not that I am complaining mind you. Cass Sunstein would likley be more scary to the BTC market.
The Real Space Initiative - V7
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.14 07:45:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Dyner To me this looks like owning some ultra-rare Baseball Cards. You trade that baseball card for cash. New owner does the same...eventually though no one is going to want to trade cash for that baseball card; whole thing collapses.
How about instead of figuring out new ways of making 'Money' we figure out WE-DO-NOT-NEED-MONEY. No one seems to want to do anything just because it would better the species...nooooo, gotta have my money
I agree with this sentiment. While BitCoin is an interesting prject, I am not sure it will really take off.
BitCoins are only worth as much as people think they are worth. Sway the minds of the people and ...
But we shall see.
I was thinking of getting a few coins for myself tho, just to sell them a bit later and abuse the system while it lasts for my own personal gain, but I should have known about it a year ago, then I could have amde lots of money now apparently. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Vogue
Short Bus Pole Dancers
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Posted - 2011.06.14 09:57:00 -
[74]
Here is a good article about bitcoin 'open source' currency http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2011/06/virtual-currency.
I think Bitcoin will remain a niche minority way of doing transactions. But what is most exciting about the concept of open source currency is that you don't need clearing banks and other banking functionaries that skim a profit that is of no 'worth' to the wider economy other that helping rich people get richer. In reality a bitcoin mk2 would need some form of endorsement from a corporate entity. But then you have organizations endorse open source software that make a nominal profit but not a over zealous one.
.................................................. Fortress Of Solitude |
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.14 12:24:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Vogue Edited by: Vogue on 14/06/2011 10:40:47 Here is a good article about bitcoin 'open source' currency http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2011/06/virtual-currency.
I think Bitcoin will remain a niche minority way of doing transactions. But what is most exciting about the concept of open source currency is that you don't need clearing banks and other banking functionaries that skim a profit that is of no 'worth' to the wider economy other that helping rich people get richer. In reality a bitcoin mk2 would need some form of endorsement from a corporate entity. But then you have organizations endorse open source software that make a nominal profit but not a over zealous one.
.
This leads me towards another economic concept I read about in Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars series of books - a political taxonomy based on 'calories'. A regime of economic input and output based on the individuals energy and resource intake balanced against their economic output. If an individual's economic output is far greater, and low in 'waste', than their resource input then they would receive a profitable 'tax' rebate. This could also be scaled to group corporate behavior where organzsations are also subject to the same taxonomy. This system would favor high value knowledge industries. But in fairness these high value enterprises would pay a subsistence charge for necessary raw material supporting organizations that provide electricity and have to consume raw materials. Systems similar to this will have to be considered when developed economies in decades ahead face a crunch scenario from the current consumer economic model failing due to billions of consumers in the world wanting goods that are far beyond the planets environmental ability to supply the raw materials to sustain such gross consumer consumption. When this paradigm shift occurs economies will retool in a war like mobilization.
What is really neede is a way to assess current resources, and then make and economy based on that. This do need organization and some controlling enity. Current banks and governments are no good canditates for this mine you, since their values are not compatible.
We need to get over this whole idea that we are "consumers" and start making things to last, and making things and systems more efficient.
Really, we need some changes in our value system first of all we we hope to make any lasting changes for the betterment of mankind. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Vogue
Short Bus Pole Dancers
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Posted - 2011.06.14 13:30:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Vogue on 14/06/2011 13:31:31 I watched all of the Adam Curtis 'Century Of The Self' which has painted the modern political culture as bonkers. Politicians picked up the play book of corporations that involves bracketing individuals into marketing groups. Recently they have used a wicked ploy of pitching products and services in a way that appeals to current 'get ahead in life' individualist desires of consumers. Politicians used these tactics with focus groups but created a total quagmire of conflicts: A: 'Do you want better public services' -> Yes B:'Do you want to pay less taxes' - Yes. Where a corporate product is a self contained entity politics for the masses most certainly is not. What is depressing is that presidents and prime ministers believed their own conflicting soundbites when their holy polling numbers went up. And now ultimately politicians, the media and the masses are now trapped in a 24/7 glib news mouse wheel. It is like our countries have climbed a societal Maslow's hierarchy of needs and now at the top are trapped in a existential consumerist circus cage.
Many old people in the USA have consumer electronics from decades ago that still work. Then they was really built to last. But white good manufacturers realized that they was selling products that were too reliable in that they would not need to be replaced. So they started making less reliable white goods.
.................................................. Fortress Of Solitude |
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.14 14:25:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Vogue Edited by: Vogue on 14/06/2011 13:31:31 I watched all of the Adam Curtis 'Century Of The Self' which has painted the modern political culture as bonkers. Politicians picked up the play book of corporations that involves bracketing individuals into marketing groups. Recently they have used a wicked ploy of pitching products and services in a way that appeals to current 'get ahead in life' individualist desires of consumers. Politicians used these tactics with focus groups but created a total quagmire of conflicts: A: 'Do you want better public services' -> Yes B:'Do you want to pay less taxes' - Yes. Where a corporate product is a self contained entity politics for the masses most certainly is not. What is depressing is that presidents and prime ministers believed their own conflicting soundbites when their holy polling numbers went up. And now ultimately politicians, the media and the masses are now trapped in a 24/7 glib news mouse wheel. It is like our countries have climbed a societal Maslow's hierarchy of needs and now at the top are trapped in a existential consumerist circus cage.
Many old people in the USA have consumer electronics from decades ago that still work. Then they was really built to last. But white good manufacturers realized that they was selling products that were too reliable in that they would not need to be replaced. So they started making less reliable white goods.
Its the same here as well. My grandmother gots lots of "old stuff" that works just fine this day, been working fine since before I was born. My uncle meaning well bought her a new fansy radio/cd player, but it broke after a year... :P
Heck, even my old 8bit NES boots just fine now as well.
I was not aware of 'Century Of The Self'. But I will be in a few hours ;) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Dyner
Minmatar Midgard Protectorate
|
Posted - 2011.06.14 14:44:00 -
[78]
End the Currency; free yourself. ---------------- "Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall." - Confucius |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group
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Posted - 2011.06.23 15:10:00 -
[79]
New Article about Bitcoin.
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Vogue
Short Bus Pole Dancers
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Posted - 2011.06.23 15:25:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Vogue on 23/06/2011 15:26:01 Apart from the slush monies of actual notes and coins we all deal with electronic money. But both types are endorsed by government central banks. The Euro is unique in having a 500 note that is particularly useful to illegal drug organizations who want to move huge amounts of cash easily. The dollar is the world's international currency. All countries trade with each other in dollars. Though I read China and Russia are doing a trial of trade between themselves in their own currency.
I would not be surprised if the Bitcoin hack was sponsered covertly by a government. 40% of hackers in the USA have been caught and now work covertly under the auspice of the FBI.
For the EURO at least investigations have found that at least 1/3 of all notes in circulation have traces of ******* This will be true for all other western currencies.
.................................................. Fortress Of Solitude |
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.23 16:46:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Akita T on 23/06/2011 16:47:04
And let's not even talk about traces of bodily fluids, colonies of various microorganisms and so on and so forth. Even "honest" money is literally dirty money (in the "filthy", "lacking hygiene" sense). I almost always feel the need to wash my hands after having had to physically handle money. I'd much rather lick my own keyboard than handle money and not wash hands afterwards. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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coolzero
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.23 20:55:00 -
[82]
Stefan Molyneux, host of Freedomain Radio, interviews Bruce Wagner about the latest and greatest currency technology in the world! |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.09.01 23:27:00 -
[83]
And now it's down to barely over 8$. At least the hype died down a bit, eh ? _
Akita T USEFUL EVE LINKS collection |
RaTTuS
BIG Gentlemen's Agreement
|
Posted - 2011.09.02 08:25:00 -
[84]
It's an interesting concept, it does have it's parallels in the Eve world, ... buy low sell high , mining is not free , stuff you do your self is not free don't trust other people with your coins, keys or computer passwords.
You can make 50BTC each 10 mins - but you are unlikely [impossible] unless you have move than 50% of all the power on the network, you can join a mining pool and help solve blocks for part payment of the ones the pool gets - [ you don't have to join but you can get regular payments then as opposed to 50btc in chunks]
it is not free money as you have to put electricity into mining and at current prices it is better to buy than to mine [depending on your power costs]
you can buy stuff with them , my favourite is Amazon - ok not directly amazon but it works, .... if you have real money it is easier to buy with that than BTC but if you have btc then that works.
it reached a high with the silk road press, and people have been scammed [see mybitcoin], , and hacked, and people on the forums are not always who they may appear...
YMMV
but will it continue - I think it will .. there does need to be some changes but the code base is avaialble.
oh yeah - another thing - jumping on the look-a-likes , and clones just because you where not there at the start [see t2 lottery] is just going to cause you grief.
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Anea Ruminare
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Posted - 2011.09.02 18:05:00 -
[85]
Akita I may say you are my financial guru atm. When I have a q about economics I will address it in the EVE Forums.
Thank you for existing. And I mean no sarcasm at all. It just thrills me to see such intelligent ppl with enough knowledge to give information.
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Trixie Stardust
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Posted - 2011.09.04 09:19:00 -
[86]
Just think..
If you bought $500 worth when it was .05 and sold at $30, that would be $300,000.
Money for nothin' and the chicks for free.
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Aldarica
Spinal Discipline
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Posted - 2011.09.04 17:13:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Aldarica on 04/09/2011 17:18:42
Originally by: Akita T And now it's down to barely over 8$. At least the hype died down a bit, eh ?
As miner (and ocassional trader) who managed to return whole initial investment in mining rigs I am not worried for as long as I am able to cover my power costs. Which means that BTC value should fall to less than 2$. Which I don't expect to happen - Bitcoin is too good concept, it needs time to grow and I am sure that we are witnessing something really great there.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.09.04 21:27:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Aldarica Edited by: Aldarica on 04/09/2011 17:18:42
Originally by: Akita T And now it's down to barely over 8$. At least the hype died down a bit, eh ?
As miner (and ocassional trader) who managed to return whole initial investment in mining rigs I am not worried for as long as I am able to cover my power costs. Which means that BTC value should fall to less than 2$. Which I don't expect to happen - Bitcoin is too good concept, it needs time to grow and I am sure that we are witnessing something really great there.
What is so great about it though? It is just another money system, and will not change anything about the human condition. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
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