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AL RISHA
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Posted - 2011.05.15 02:12:00 -
[1]
Looking at joining a WH corps and they have a Pos with maybe a carrier or two.
It would seem to me to be nearly impossible for them to bring enough BS ? in to take down a Pos in a timely manner with a carrier repping the tower ... or am I mistaken ?
If they could threaten the Pos, how many BS's would they need to be effective ... 20 ? Or do they just need to catch the home crew off guard and do there work when no ones around ?
And would not a significant number of ships cause the WH to collapse behind them , cause them have a new potentially unsafe route home ? ( maybe they dont care or maybe they might want to stay ....! )
Finally what precautions can you put in place ... can you line up 2 or 3 Pos's to reinforce each other ?
Many thanks for replies.
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2011.05.15 02:33:00 -
[2]
A better question is does the corp you're thinking of joining have enough combat power in system to take out another tower in a timely fashion? Because if a corp really wants you out of that class three, there are still ways to do it. They can smuggle battleships in over a period of time, then when they get 30-100 in system everyone logs on and moves to attack. But they can also just set up a large deathstar tower and proceed to build dreadnoughts in the system. It takes time, but if they aren't stopped you're in trouble. ______________________________________________________ PVP is a question that has no one right answer but a lot of wrong ones. - Aelana Anais
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.15 05:56:00 -
[3]
Can you get me a bookmark to this C3 with capitals? :)
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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AL RISHA
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Posted - 2011.05.15 07:52:00 -
[4]
Do you want me to leave Milk and Cookie out for you or a Key under the mat , ok ?
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.05.15 11:01:00 -
[5]
I've seen people get 30 battleships into a C3 soley for the purpose of getting a tower on their killboard. One group in particular had eyes on the POS 24 hours a day, and they brought the entire group online when there were the least numbers of our corp online.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Daneel Trevize
Black Viper Nomads
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Posted - 2011.05.15 11:05:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Daneel Trevize on 15/05/2011 11:06:20 Lower class (c3-c1) capship pilots are getting notorious for being ******ed, baited out and ****d. Some even don't know to SD in time.
Higher class systems that have a static that'll take caps out will find people take a 1 way trip in from a lucky route and use a staging POS. Top end c6 attacks will have one party(AHARM, R&K, etc) repeatedly cycle a static c6 until they get the target system over and over, and send the max number of caps and support ships through each time to then log off, and all come online on d-day.
1 POS per moon.
Wormhole defence under true attack is about control of the static/any connections. Before and during the attack. |
Ned Black
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Posted - 2011.05.15 12:04:00 -
[7]
Lets just say that if the ones that want to evict you are determined enough you will be evicted. It wont matter a fig if you live in a C1 or a C6.
In about 99% of the cases the ones being evicted have no chance whatsoever in regards to defence and they rarely put up even a symbolic fight.
Fighting in wormholes is VERY much diffrent from fighting in 0.0. In 0.0 if you get killed and podded you can simply go get another ship and join the fray again and again.
In a WH if you get podded the chance of you actually rejoining the fight is miniscule... at least if the attacker knows what they are about... and most of the people doing this do know what they are about.
Podding one defender and letting ten go is better than killing all eleven and letting all their pods get away. Ships are usually in abundance in WH space... pilots on the other hand are not.
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Socks Malone
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Posted - 2011.05.16 07:11:00 -
[8]
Basically what Daneel Trevize and Ned Black said. Once the attackers get a tower up and start controlling and flipping the static on you your time is done. They'll camp your space 24/7 as this is EVE and spaceships are serious business.
The best defense is just using the carriers to rep the force field back up to 50+%, using heavy armor maintenance drones on the modules with a capital hull repper and sticking close to the force field so they can try to get back in when and if attackers come. This will require a lot of extra Stront though and could possibly drag out for weeks. The idea of POS defense is not to destroy attackers as most seem smart enough not to die to them except for a few covert ops and SB pilots, but to outlast them in such a way that a continued offense causes the attackers to lose morale and leave. A carrier in a C1-C4 is nothing but a really expensive super logistics ship. Any anomaly can be run far cheaper and safer in BS's, T3's, BC's, logistics and HACs. In any other way it becomes a magnet for groups who seek capital kills.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.16 16:44:00 -
[9]
Originally by: AL RISHA Do you want me to leave Milk and Cookie out for you or a Key under the mat , ok ?
No, the promise to use your capital ship would work marvelously though. :) -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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AL RISHA
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Posted - 2011.05.16 22:07:00 -
[10]
No, the promise to use your capital ship would work marvelously though. :) Liang Nuren
Come alone and we can talk ......
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.16 22:40:00 -
[11]
Originally by: AL RISHA
No, the promise to use your capital ship would work marvelously though. :) Liang Nuren
Come alone and we can talk ......
Oh come on ... surely you have POSes and capitals you can defend your WH from all comers! -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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AL RISHA
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Posted - 2011.05.17 00:43:00 -
[12]
Yes, I have my Hull tanking carrier ... but sure your don't expect me to risk getting the Duco scratched ?
I only just got it waxed !
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Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2011.05.18 12:43:00 -
[13]
Originally by: AL RISHA
Looking at joining a WH corps and they have a Pos with maybe a carrier or two.
It would seem to me to be nearly impossible for them to bring enough BS ? in to take down a Pos in a timely manner with a carrier repping the tower ... or am I mistaken ?
I've been party to a few POS take downs. The POS defenses didn't last long. Can the carrier rep from inside the FF? No. This makes your carrier vulnerable. A fleet worth its salt is going to have logistics making it possible for the fleet to tank incoming damage from your POS assuming you don't have enough people to man the guns.
Quote:
If they could threaten the Pos, how many BS's would they need to be effective ... 20 ? Or do they just need to catch the home crew off guard and do there work when no ones around ?
A fleet is hardly necessary. An alternative is to camp your exits and pod your people as opportunities arise. Once all your members are outside your hole, how are you going to bring in fuel?
Specifically, how many BS's. My last fleet was +40 ships. Maybe 30 BS's.
Quote:
And would not a significant number of ships cause the WH to collapse behind them , cause them have a new potentially unsafe route home ? ( maybe they dont care or maybe they might want to stay ....! )
Yes. But then your fleet is going to have probers to find you a route out depending on the statics. If you're in a hole exiting to losec or hisec, getting ships in is not much of a problem. It gets more difficult in w-space systems staticing to other holes but, it's not impossible.
Quote:
Finally what precautions can you put in place ... can you line up 2 or 3 Pos's to reinforce each other ?
No, one POS per moon effectively isolating them. However, having more than one POS in the system does provide you a modicum of options you wouldn't have with only one POS.
Precautions: Good defense. Learn about POS defenses. There are guides out there that will help get you thinking about what makes a decent defense. Keep your POS fueled. Have a stockpile set aside for emergency use. Join an alliance. Make sure all your wh members can act as POS gunners.
The reality is that a POS will not so much secure your system as it will give you a safe haven to exist. Its defensive capabilities are limited. The POS will not fend off a determined fleet. It will only buy you time to bring in reinforcements.
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Ashimat
Selectus Pravus Lupus Transmission Lost
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Posted - 2011.05.18 15:53:00 -
[14]
Quote: Lets just say that if the ones that want to evict you are determined enough you will be evicted. It wont matter a fig if you live in a C1 or a C6.
This basically.
And as someone else said, a POS buy you time. What saves you most of the time is the cumbersome and boring process of getting a fleet in, putting the POS into reinforced, waiting out the reinforced-timer (maybe having to camp the WHs during this time) and then two days later finally killing the tower. But if someone have decided they want to invest this time, they most likely going to succeed. Therefore two towers are much, much better then one.
And for everything that's holy, keep your caps out of sight (that's especially true for Rorquals! ) they are just a very good reason to siege your particular system.
When it comes to carriers as part of a defence-plan, if you know how to fly them, go for it. But people are right when they say they are force-multipliers, if your defence-fleet is zero, you can multiply all you want...
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AL RISHA
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Posted - 2011.05.18 23:23:00 -
[15]
Thank you for the replies ... gives me something to think about.
So when you say keeps your Caps out of sight that means you have to Log out in them ?
Also if u did have to Rep the FF with a carrier and you have to be on the outside, then its best to do it with 2 or more carriers in Triage ?
Finally, you say be in a Alliance but what will they do .... are they going to drop everything, rally the troops and be able to find you in a timely manner ?
Cheers Al
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Socks Malone
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Posted - 2011.05.19 05:46:00 -
[16]
You should log out in them or preferably have a dedicated SMA for them. Either works, as long as they don't see them on d-scan.
To rep the shields you have to be outside the FF. You can do triage, but I might recommend against it if you haven't placed and onlined more guns. If your outside the FF and a fleet either large enough or packing a Bhaalgorn or neut Legion will ruin your day if your POS defenses are down.
Most alliances have friends and diplomacy can often be more effective than bullets. They might also know good WH mercs(Shameless plug: Narwhals Ate My Ducks) or send in a fleet to try and save you. YMMV on the effectiveness of your WH alliance.
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Ashimat
Selectus Pravus Lupus Transmission Lost
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Posted - 2011.05.19 11:12:00 -
[17]
Quote: Finally, you say be in a Alliance but what will they do .... are they going to drop everything, rally the troops and be able to find you in a timely manner ?
Depends if it's a good one or not :) Do they expect you and your corp. to drop everything and go and try to save somebody else?
I guess you could pay some mercs to come and help you, but you still need to get them in there. If I had 5 guys that could keep control of your system, and that you had no resources/knowledge to kill, you could have all of Pandemic Legion ready to go in empire and it would not help you a bit.
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Socks Malone
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Posted - 2011.05.20 01:27:00 -
[18]
Ashimut makes a lot of great points. I can count the number of reputable and WH-capable mercs on one hand. The cheapest one may surprise you as it did me.
Your biggest threat(from my limited experience) is going to be Russians with griefers coming in at a distant 2nd.
There are a few WH alliances and some are more equal than others. You hit Transmission Lost and it's on, pretty much the same as if you hit a Talocan United system only without the coordination. There's even an alliance of WH alliances. WH POS burn at a much greater ratio to pilots than they do in Null according to the EVE Quarterly reports. The best way to describe it is with a picture: http://i53.tinypic.com/684eb4.jpg
More POS's, like more gunz is better. Hitting a system with 1 large POS is a cinch for most WH alliances and Russians, change that to 4 med/large POS's and the situation changes drastically to the defenders favor because shooting at a POS is just boring. The problem is with increased security comes increase costs. My first POS was a small caldari with 3 ECM, random pvpers saved it.
Fighting in WH space is different. People can be kicked from corp for chatting it up in local. You don't know who is in your system until you see them on D-scan, probing or they decloak on top of you.
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Substantia Nigra
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Posted - 2011.05.30 11:08:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Socks Malone The best way to describe it is with a picture: http://i53.tinypic.com/684eb4.jpg
Thank you Socks. I knew there was a reason I never really enjoyed lowsec, and that image **is** a fantastic way to think of w-space.
OP, what OP?
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Hathrul
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Posted - 2011.05.30 11:20:00 -
[20]
If someone wants your wormhole and they can field numbers, its gone. its just that simple. everything in your wormhole should be aimed at making you a ****ty target.
1. caps. dont let the float about. people attack just for the cap killmails or to SD them. carriers make great defence, but as said, they are force multipliers 2. 1500 SMA's. its like chocolate eggs with filling. if you see that many sma or corp hangars, i just wanna crack the shell to see what is in there. 3. tower defense. this cant be said enough. living in wh i come accros too many poorly setup towers. small towers with 1 or 2 guns, medium towers with mostly indy stuff, large towers with full defenses that are offline. a smart attacker will observe your wormhole for some time and know when you sleep, and kick the tower into reinforcement before you wake up 4. POS gunners!! the increase in effectiveness of pos defenses is so massive if a few people directly control the guns and coordinate their attacks
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Devil tiger
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Posted - 2011.05.30 12:58:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Devil tiger on 30/05/2011 13:02:31 Edited by: Devil tiger on 30/05/2011 13:01:49
Originally by: Liang Nuren Can you get me a bookmark to this C3 with capitals? :)
-Liang
I can point you a C3 with tower, capitals and static exit to domain low sec, Liang. :)
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
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Posted - 2011.05.30 15:36:00 -
[22]
Originally by: AL RISHA So when you say keeps your Caps out of sight that means you have to Log out in them ?
Originally by: Socks Malone You should log out in them or preferably have a dedicated SMA for them. Either works, as long as they don't see them on d-scan.
Last evening we scanned a C5 system with two True Sansha towers, 13 ship maintenance arrays, and a couple of carriers and other ships in space.
In C5 & C6 capitals are expected though
Don't make it so obvious in a C1/C2/C3/C4.
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Raid'En
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Posted - 2011.05.30 23:47:00 -
[23]
don't be too scared of what they said.
sure they are true on a big point : if someone want to evict you they will. and they can decide to be it even if you don't see any reason for that.
BUT
it don't happen often. as said pos bashing is pretty boring, so chances are pretty low it happen to you.
i had 4-5 guys on total who told me it happened to them. for months of biz and hundreds of customers.
listen to their suggestions, and you will make the risk even lower.
take a good defense, have enough people, and don't let people think you don't use the system.
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