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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.15 16:56:00 -
[61]
There are still tens of thousands of people who're actively PvPing in game and who're perfectly happy. True, some forms of PvP have taken a bit of a beating but that's life. Adapt or die.
CCP should just take you off their mailing list so that the rest of us don't have to listen to this bitter, misinformed, mindless dribble every time they give a free 5 day reactivation out.
Go back to picking flowers in a field in Warcraft or whatever you do when you're not crying for attention on these forums when you can get a free handout of game time.
Honestly, if you're so bitter over Eve, get lost and play something else and let the rest of the community enjoy the game they choose to play.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Pesky LaRue
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2011.05.15 17:12:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Verone
There are still tens of thousands of people who're actively PvPing in game and who're perfectly happy. True, some forms of PvP have taken a bit of a beating but that's life. Adapt or die.
CCP should just take you off their mailing list so that the rest of us don't have to listen to this bitter, misinformed, mindless dribble every time they give a free 5 day reactivation out.
Go back to picking flowers in a field in Warcraft or whatever you do when you're not crying for attention on these forums when you can get a free handout of game time.
Honestly, if you're so bitter over Eve, get lost and play something else and let the rest of the community enjoy the game they choose to play.
Whilst I don't disagree with all of Rells' points, I agree with almost everything Verone says here.
Rells, stop coming back. The game will NEVER be what you want it to be, let it go and move on. Seriously. .
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.05.15 17:16:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Malcanis I don't have really a problem with jump drives tbh, but as for the rest, the OP is basically correct.
Are you part of a 0.0 alliance? Im curious.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2011.05.15 17:21:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran I really shouldn't but...
You first argue that things that make the game more safer in no sec space is turning the game towards "carebear" and next you argue that no sec players haven't been allowed to carve out their own kingdoms/empires.
Isn't having a kingdom where "you are the law" the epitome of safety for those in charge? Essentially making it a "carebear" haven for those people? And if there aren't any added security for yourself in your own kingdom doesn't that break the whole idea of having carved something out as everybody can trespass as they want?
Why shouldnt you? Its a valid question.
The difference is that players are in control of the security, not some arbitrary and indefeatable game mechanic. Other players can then try to disrupt that kingdom and its security. The content is being generated by the players, not the game developer.
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Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2011.05.15 17:37:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Rells on 15/05/2011 17:37:19
Originally by: Fuzzy Wuzzi
I don't think anyone was suggesting to remove all the safeguards?
I think we can all agree that rewards currently for going to 0.0 space doesn't match the risk.
I'm suggesting nothing of the sort. There are thousands of suggestions that have been made over the years that could reinvigorate PvP but they require an attitude change of shifting eve from being a carebear reactive effort to a visionary, player focused effort. Its the change in focus that needs to happen first. Instead of sitting around saying, "How can we get people to walk in stations?" They need to sit down and ask, "What's wrong about PvP and how do we fix it." However I fear there are no more PVP centric developers left in eve so they wouldn't have any idea what is wrong with it.
Originally by: Verone There are still tens of thousands of people who're actively PvPing in game and who're perfectly happy. True, some forms of PvP have taken a bit of a beating but that's life. Adapt or die.
Wow. Blast from the past. Assuming the character wasn't sold of course. You were one of the people constantly flaming predictions that came true over and over again. It was people like you that said "oh dont be stupid, concord will never be invincible" and other similar things. How many more years will it take you to admit we turned out to be right all along?
Originally by: Verone CCP should just take you off their mailing list so that the rest of us don't have to listen to this bitter, misinformed, mindless dribble every time they give a free 5 day reactivation out.
You chose to read the thread. You chose to reply. Your own fault. Stop blaming others for your stupidity. No one put a gun to your head and said "read and reply." You are the cause of your own misery. And as usual neither you nor the other flamers here affect me in the slightest. They present a comical vision something like some spittle spewing moron cursing at a zen monk while he merely sits placidly and smiles. The reality is that none of you are important to my life, so I don't give a darn what any of the people here think about me.
Originally by: Verone Go back to picking flowers in a field in Warcraft or whatever you do when you're not crying for attention on these forums when you can get a free handout of game time.
Did you read the post? Anyone who had would realize I wouldnt be playing wow. Or are you just too dumb to figure that out? Ok, Ok ... my bad ... I will spell it out for you. WoW is the biggest peice of crap, timesinking gimick on the MMOG market. Good enough or do I have to put it in braille?
Originally by: Verone Honestly, if you're so bitter over Eve, get lost and play something else and let the rest of the community enjoy the game they choose to play.
Bitter over a video game? Nah. I wouldn't qualify it as that. Disappointed is more accurate. I have had a life sufficiently filled with emotional and personal pain and ultimate triumph that Eve doesn't posses the ability to embitter me.
What is interesting is that people will dismiss honestly offered criticism without countering it in any way, rather attacking the character of the poster. Is it possible that people have lost the ability to intelligently debate anything?
As for you Verone, your opinions and posts have always, for years, been part of the problem.
-- Founder of Agony Unleashed but NOT currently CEO of it. Opinions expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily represent opinions of AGONY. |
Voith
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Posted - 2011.05.15 17:44:00 -
[66]
Eve has always been a shadow of what it could be.
Allowing multiple characters or accounts per person guaranteed that.
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Eyup Mi'duck
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.15 17:48:00 -
[67]
Pure PvP is at the top of the EVE foodchain. PvP'ers carnivorous activity doesn't actually create anything, it just consumes and redistributes stuff made by the herbivores and pond life lower down the food chain. And yes, it takes a lot of herbivores to feed one carnivore - hence the EVE demographics and CCP's motivation to help carebears. Without carebearing, EvE's economy would grind to a halt.
IMHO it was the introduction of bubbles that ruined a whole chunk of the game. It threw up a fence around 0.0 that has stopped much of the traffic in and out of nullsec, and created the need for jumpdrives. Being able to leapfrog along critical traderoutes has killed many types of gameplay. Now nullsec is only really viable with a jumpdrive and connections.
Yes I am an 8 year old player, and now live self sufficiently in empire space, getting my high-end mins from L4 drone missions, and additional revenue from manufacturing, PI and research. It was the bubbles drove me to this. It was either that, or become a serf in a mega-corp wracked by political ego-maniacs and high tax rates. Not my style.
C'est la vie, yes it could be so much better but it's still a damn good game.
Get over it! Learn and move on. |
Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2011.05.15 17:55:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Eyup Mi'duck
IMHO it was the introduction of bubbles that ruined a whole chunk of the game. It threw up a fence around 0.0 that has stopped much of the traffic in and out of nullsec, and created the need for jumpdrives. Being able to leapfrog along critical traderoutes has killed many types of gameplay. Now nullsec is only really viable with a jumpdrive and connections.
In the past 4 days I have flown a merlin around 7 different regions in 0.0 without being touched. Carebears have always had an over-inflated view of the danger of PvP. Making no ship be ever catchable is not the answer, in fact it adds to the problem. COmplete safety should never be hand anywhere in Eve. That was the fervent mantra of CCP at release and anyone who doubted it was flamed to a charcoal powder. It is that desire for complete safety and enrichment of the carebear that is at the heart of the problems.
And, as I pointed out before, billions of items were made when the game wasnt safe pretty much anywhere. To think they wouldnt be would be a fatal underestimation of the player base. Sort of like when CCP came out with titans and said "dont be stupid, there will only be 2 or 3 in all of eve." Those of us that said, there will be hundreds as the players will grind to build them, were flamed to hell and back.
-- Founder of Agony Unleashed but NOT currently CEO of it. Opinions expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily represent opinions of AGONY. |
Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2011.05.15 17:58:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Fuzzy Wuzzi
Originally by: Rells So many games purport to be the next best thing in pvp; Shadowbane, Darkfall, Mortal Online, and all of them end up getting flushed down the toilet of carebearism and turned into wow clones.
DF got turned into a wow clone? I didn't play it past beta but that was the last thing I expected to happen to it.
So strip away the graphics. Strip away the sound developments. Boil the game down to its basic gameplay. Once you get there, DAoC, EQ, AC, WOW and the rest become virtually identical. I challenge you to come up with a single fundamental difference.
-- Founder of Agony Unleashed but NOT currently CEO of it. Opinions expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily represent opinions of AGONY. |
Trocent
Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2011.05.15 18:14:00 -
[70]
Originally by: ZenSun Adapt or die.
This. Thank you. I was beginning to feel like people did not live by this motto anymore.
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EmoKidWithKantana
Snuff Box
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Posted - 2011.05.15 18:16:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Rells Wall of text
Hah! i was sure you had quit playing Rells! I have fond memmories of you playing docking games and being terrible with a buffer-falcon a few years ago, it's good to see that you have not turned any brighter since!
Keep being useless <3 |
Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.05.15 18:24:00 -
[72]
Originally by: SencneS In EVE If you remove ALL safeguards for carebears you instantly break the economy as not everyone wants to PVP, some just want to build an empire based on industry, and have zero interest in killing. You break carebears will to play the game you start to lose all materials, all industrials, all tycoons..
Actually, carebears are better off in a game with pvp everywhere. True there would be less of them since most people are sheeple and can't survive much of anything.
Quote: How long is it you think PVP will happen and quickly it narrow down when PVP players run out of supplies?
They wouldn't run out of supplies at all. PvPers, at least the ones not suiciding Hulks in Domain, know full well they need industrialists. It is the industrialists that don't seem to realize they need the pvpers and it is hurting them more than an explosion ever could.
Quote: To keep carebears you need to make space safe for them to a reasonable point. You can go an kill carebears left and right as much as you like, but there are consequence. CONCORD give carebears the sense of protection, and a sense of revenge for when they are ganked they feel better knowing that Concord will destroy those that killed him.
In my experience the carebear doesn't give a rats ass that the ganker lost his ship too. He just turns into the most violent verbal sociopath known to EvE.
Quote: You want PVP without consequence, do it in 0.0... Oh what? 0.0 too hard for you because those in 0.0 know how to fit ships, and have 20mil SP in combat skills.. learn to play PVP better loser, no free and easy kills for you.
There are consequences to pvping in 0.0. They are just player driven, not godmode NPCs.
Quote: Alliances need Jumpdrives, there is so much evidence that jumpdrives have improved 0.0 combat life it's not funny.
If by that you mean that only alliances with brown noses, big lips, or 100+ Supercaps can even claim space... then yes.
Quote: You want to know a CRAPPY PVP area's definition is? A part of space in which alliances hold the same space for years, alliance never move, never get smaller, never get larger.. THAT is crap PVP. Since jumpdrives and massive fleets are in game there is space that changes from time to time. THAT is combat. THAT is PVP..
Live with it.
The only time 0.0 has ever been more stagnant than it is right now was before anyone was ever out there.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
FeralShadow
NME1
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Posted - 2011.05.15 18:43:00 -
[73]
Rells, I agree with basically all of your points, especially the one about the supply lines. I remember alliances slowly falling apart because they couldn't get the people required to run freighters into null sec to support their mates.
I'm not sure getting rid of jump drives is the answer (dreads and carriers and titans and moms sure need them still) but maybe make it so freighter convoys make a comeback. It's too easy for a single person or two people to just jump mass loads of items out to null sec with the only possible victim being the cyno alt. _______________________________________________ "If you want to taste the ground, feel free to attack." - Kenshin Himura
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Bane Necran
Furtim Vigilans
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Posted - 2011.05.15 18:50:00 -
[74]
While i agree with some of what you said about 0.0, simply wanting it to be easier to blow people up is pretty shortsighted in terms of game development. You can already attack people anywhere providing you wardec them, don't mind losing a ship to CONCORD, or hunt them down within their 0.0 space, making it even easier will cause all the easy victims to just quit the game because they get blown up every couple minutes instead of every couple weeks. There has to be a happy medium.
PvP enthusiasts generally prefer easy victims over fighting eachother. The game has to accommodate the prey portion of the playerbase just a little in order to keep them around.
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Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2011.05.15 19:01:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Bane Necran While i agree with some of what you said about 0.0, simply wanting it to be easier to blow people up is pretty shortsighted in terms of game development. You can already attack people anywhere providing you wardec them, don't mind losing a ship to CONCORD, or hunt them down within their 0.0 space, making it even easier will cause all the easy victims to just quit the game because they get blown up every couple minutes instead of every couple weeks. There has to be a happy medium.
PvP enthusiasts generally prefer easy victims over fighting eachother. The game has to accommodate the prey portion of the playerbase just a little in order to keep them around.
You appear to know nothing about pvpers. Ganks bore them. They are perpetually in search of a good fight. Sure there are people that blob up but usually that is for other reasons such as the fact that blobbing is the only way to feasibly protect assets in 0.0. Your perspective is one of a carebear speaking about things he doesn't understand.
-- Founder of Agony Unleashed but NOT currently CEO of it. Opinions expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily represent opinions of AGONY. |
Fuzzy Wuzzi
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Posted - 2011.05.15 19:06:00 -
[76]
The whole idea that pvpers need carebears for supplies is pretty ludicrous. Right now, cheapest/easiest way is to buy them from carebears because they have driven prices down with their massive amounts of supply. But, if the prices kept rising and got to the point where it would be cheaper/easier to make an industrial toon and supply your pvper main, then that's what would be done.
Originally by: Eyup Mi'duck Without carebearing, EvE's economy would grind to a halt.
I highly doubt it, just the people who spend 24/7 at a station refreshing their market orders would be gone.
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Fuzzy Wuzzi
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Posted - 2011.05.15 19:08:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Rells You appear to know nothing about pvpers. Ganks bore them. They are perpetually in search of a good fight.
Exactly. There is absolutely nothing exciting about being in a blob and killing one solo ship. Gate camping = the most boring form of pvp, ever.
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Bane Necran
Furtim Vigilans
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Posted - 2011.05.15 19:12:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Bane Necran on 15/05/2011 19:13:30
Originally by: Rells appear to know nothing about pvpers. Ganks bore them. They are perpetually in search of a good fight. Sure there are people that blob up but usually that is for other reasons such as the fact that blobbing is the only way to feasibly protect assets in 0.0. Your perspective is one of a carebear speaking about things he doesn't understand.
Most people say 'gf' to everything, including completely one sided engagements. Gathering pages of Killmails is the driving force behind PvP for the majority, not some pursuit of good and fair fights.
I know there's a few PvP enthusiasts which aren't like that, and prefer a fight that isn't completely one sided, but even if all your changes were implemented there would still be hardly any of those.
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Fuzzy Wuzzi
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Posted - 2011.05.15 19:15:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Bane Necran Gathering pages of Killmails is the driving force behind PvP for the majority, not some pursuit of good and fair fights.
I think that's because it's just so damn rare to find a fair fight these days... maybe if it were easier that wouldn't be the case.
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Solhild
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Posted - 2011.05.15 19:36:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Dalmont Delantee I can see your points, but also agree with the other guys, adapt or die, games change.
EVE has so many options, if pvp is the only thing you want to do then its there, you just have to find it.
This.
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FeralShadow
NME1
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Posted - 2011.05.15 19:57:00 -
[81]
Edited by: FeralShadow on 15/05/2011 19:57:21 Honestly I dont think anybody here is saying things that are "make it easier to kill people". We simply want to make it so the people who are doing logistics, etc. have to WORK for it, instead of cynoing into a POS that you can't feasably attack, rinsing and repeating. Even if the logistics freighter had to have 20 BS gang to guard it and nobody could touch that "blob" it'd still be better than cynoing the logistics as current because then the 21 people are actually working at it and have to take risks. It's the OPPORTUNITY, not so much the actual killing. _______________________________________________ "If you want to taste the ground, feel free to attack." - Kenshin Himura
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Xtreem
Gallente Fire Mandrill
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Posted - 2011.05.15 20:02:00 -
[82]
long time no see!!
hey rells!
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.15 20:04:00 -
[83]
Rells,
You've done all this before. Many times before. You come to the forums raging on how carebears have inappropriately touched you and how because of it, you will now quit the game for good, only to reappear months later spewing the same hateful ****.
You've made it clear. You loath carebears. Time after time you come back professing this **** over and over again threatening to quit. This is not your first time. 50 years from now when Eve finally dies you'll come back talking **** on how carebears killed Eve and how they caused the floods of 2020.
Here's some friendly advice. Don't let the hate consume you. You're going to give yourself ulcers raging about us. I honestly think it would do you good if you quit (for real this time) and play something different that you may enjoy and be satisfied paying for. Eve is obviously not the game for you. For your own sake, move on. It's time. Don't you think?
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Voith
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Posted - 2011.05.15 20:07:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Fuzzy Wuzzi The whole idea that pvpers need carebears for supplies is pretty ludicrous. Right now, cheapest/easiest way is to buy them from carebears because they have driven prices down with their massive amounts of supply. But, if the prices kept rising and got to the point where it would be cheaper/easier to make an industrial toon and supply your pvper main, then that's what would be done.
Originally by: Eyup Mi'duck Without carebearing, EvE's economy would grind to a halt.
I highly doubt it, just the people who spend 24/7 at a station refreshing their market orders would be gone.
There was a time when there was almost no carebears because Concord could be tanked.
I for one did not enjoy paying 50million for a cruiser.
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Waaaaaagggh
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Posted - 2011.05.15 20:19:00 -
[85]
if you remove the crutches like this... you make a game with an insane learning curve even more insane. good luck getting anyone to play it.
Making eve harder (undock and die puny noobling!) will cause more new players to go play wow. Is that what you want?
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Captain Megadeath
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Posted - 2011.05.15 20:41:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Voith
There was a time when there was almost no carebears because Concord could be tanked.
I for one did not enjoy paying 50million for a cruiser.
This, plus the fact that the Eve pop was around 5000'ish
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Venessa Albosa
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Posted - 2011.05.15 22:55:00 -
[87]
meh 0.0 is for the weak
-1.0 is where the real boys live
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.05.15 23:28:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Venessa Albosa meh 0.0 is for the weak
-1.0 is where the real boys live
Are those the boys surrounded by bigger boys protecting them or the boys that cloak and go afk?
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
Venessa Albosa
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Posted - 2011.05.15 23:39:00 -
[89]
There arent that many big boys in -1.0 and I highly doubt they do much protecting
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.05.15 23:41:00 -
[90]
Too busy standing behind their leaders? *cough*
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
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